This Game is Boring

[-N7-Leonhart]

Might be related the fact that our game time is in the thousands of hours. Let's face it: no game can keep you hooked for an eternity. That's what I also see a lot on Steam, negative reviews from veterans with 2000+ hours saying they have nothing to do. Well duh, no matter how many things are to be done, you would do everything 100 times over in that many hours....

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Might be related the fact that our game time is in the thousands of hours. Let's face it: no game can keep you hooked for an eternity. That's what I also see a lot on Steam, negative reviews from veterans with 2000+ hours saying they have nothing to do. Well duh, no matter how many things are to be done, you would do everything 100 times over in that many hours....

Respectfully disagree. I still go back to the original Neverwinter Nights. I still go back to Diablo 2. I still go back to Oblivion. I still go back to Counter-Strike. I still go back to BDO. Sometimes I'm even tempted to go back to WoW. 

As has been said many times, the problem isn't our playtime, it's that the core gameplay is a shell of what it could be and is largely unsatisfying.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Respectfully disagree. I still go back to the original Neverwinter Nights. I still go back to Diablo 2. I still go back to Oblivion. I still go back to Counter-Strike. I still go back to BDO. Sometimes I'm even tempted to go back to WoW. 

As has been said many times, the problem isn't our playtime, it's that the core gameplay is a shell of what it could be and is largely unsatisfying.

Yes, and you still go back to Warframe as well. In fact, it's the game that I have been going back to the most over the years, so it's not the game, but us that is the problem.

Honestly, I can't see it. I can't see what can they introduce that will keep us hooked for an indefinite amount of time. Any new mechanic will start to feel flat once I dump 100 more hours or so on it...

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Yes, and you still go back to Warframe as well. In fact, it's the game that I have been going back to the most over the years, so it's not the game, but us that is the problem.

Honestly, I can't see it. I can't see what can they introduce that will keep us hooked for an indefinite amount of time. Any new mechanic will start to feel flat once I dump 100 more hours or so on it...

No. I don't. I think the last time I logged in I immediately felt it was a chore to play, made this here post, and haven't booted since.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true or possible. I think if they made archwing more accessible, and available in more land missions, allowing hotswapping between archwing and land fighting could change the game. I think that if melee was fleshed out and more interactive, it would be a major game changer. I think if snipers got more love, removing the hipfire accuracy debuff and allowing us to aim like any other gun as well as use it's scope, it would breathe life into an aspect of the game that isn't used as much. I think DE needs to work on making the game more of a game and less of a glorified cookie clicker.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

14 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Yes, and you still go back to Warframe as well. In fact, it's the game that I have been going back to the most over the years, so it's not the game, but us that is the problem.

Honestly, I can't see it. I can't see what can they introduce that will keep us hooked for an indefinite amount of time. Any new mechanic will start to feel flat once I dump 100 more hours or so on it...

I can look at shadow of colossus and at warframe, and point out 10 things easy that make shadow a better game. I have not (for some ungodly reason) played the new one. Or Galaga for crying out loud. And i have been playing galaga for as long as i can remember going to cheap run down arcades ( im only 23)... Mario cart. Any game that has a following, any game that has been succesful for decades (warframe is going on 5 years). Any game can be compared on a scale of bad to warframe to good. There are basic, BASIC, things they could be doing to make this game better, it could be great, it could keep a following for years. If they put the work into it that it needs.

Edited June 23, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Iccotak]

43 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Yes, and you still go back to Warframe as well. In fact, it's the game that I have been going back to the most over the years, so it's not the game, but us that is the problem.

Honestly, I can't see it. I can't see what can they introduce that will keep us hooked for an indefinite amount of time. Any new mechanic will start to feel flat once I dump 100 more hours or so on it...

Again that is the wrong question and perspective.
Don't ask what they can add in to hook us. That's what causes this hoarding obsession this community has.
Instead ask, "What can DE do to create a complete game of this scope"

Our point is that we don't want the game to forever be in this state of being incomplete.
And giving us new toys is not going to change our minds.

I still go back to Skyrim and even without mods I don't get bored. 
Diablo 2-3 is essentially horde combat and people don't get bored with that.

Destiny 1 also had great horde combat BUT it had a severe lack of content which is what made many players get bored with the game. 
And as I said in the past. Bungie would see the problem and fix it. Allowing Destiny 2 to be a complete product at release.
This Will Draw Away the Player Base of Warframe. because Destiny 2 will offer what Warframe has and more.
Especially since it is coming to PC.

DE should have capitalized on the lackluster reception of Destiny 1 and worked to make as much progress in the base game as possible.

Instead they release these story bits through New Warframes, Clan Events, and One cinematic quest a year.
We have 30+ warframes and well over 100+ weapons. 
Maybe focus on creating a game instead of content for us to farm for.

Problem being the community is hooked on hoarding new stuff because that's what DE set-up to give the players something to do so then they can develop.
The player base considers that worthwhile content instead of the many things I listed (Which is what DE really wants to work on)

They focus on farming Void Relics and Rivens. 

As I said before, I will wait to see what happens at Tenno-Con before I do anything else concerning Warframe.
I do want the Oberon Prime pack, but I am not giving them any more money unless I am happy with what I see at Tenno-Con.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Iccotak

[Iccotak]

We are dealing with a community that can't take criticism of themselves or the game. 
Which does affect development.

I did a post awhile back, showing gameplay from Destiny 2, trying to discuss what Warframe could learn from this. And the first Page is full of comments of people just defending Warframe and attacking Destiny. Saying that DE shouldn't copy Destiny, which is not what I was saying.

The post was originally under Level design feedback but people had it moved to the off-topic session. Even though it was talking about level design.
Page 2 has comments from people who actually contributed.
 

 

[Shy0]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

You're missing the point. It's not about what I want, it's about finishing what the Devs started. No matter how you spin it anymore WF barely works right now. It's only grind for no payoff. There is nothing to keep getting. Nothing to strive for. It's all pointless right now. They gave us an empty sandbox which is fun for awhile, but it'd be better with a few buckets and shovels. Right now we have a bucket with no handle and a broken shovel. It works, but it isn't enjoyable for long.

i made a mistake in my last post; i actually started playing in 2013. i've been commenting on some fundamental flaws with the game so far back that my posts have been archived and till now, there doesn't seem like any attempt has been made to address them. i'm not the one brushing things under the rug; was just trying to get you to move on and not waste your time trying to change DE's mindset and corporate direction.

 

29 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Problem being the community is hooked on hoarding new stuff because that's what DE set-up to give the players something to do so then they can develop.
The player base considers that worthwhile content instead of the many things I listed (Which is what DE really wants to work on)

if they really wanted to work on those things, they would have done so. in the end, they have the metrics and data that we don't; they will interpret it as they will and they will do what they want with their game. i'm not a bigshot youtuber or founder so what i say here probably won't affect DE's priorities (one of which certainly is Profit). and just remember that forum users are almost always a pretty small minority of any playerbase.

anyway, i think i've outlived my usefulness in this thread. i'm passionate about gaming and of course i want to play good games, but i've learnt over the years to not be too sucked in by any one game because things change and the devs never necessarily have the same vision the players do. when you feel like it, take a step back and think about how likely you're able to achieve change by doing what you're doing. good luck with your crusade and convincing DE to give you your vision of the game.

[Culaio]

I have question to people here, from what games you I think DE could pull inspiration to make archwing better ? I just want to hear people's opinion about this, I know different people want archwing to be different thing which is why I want to hear people's opinion.

I personally always though that archwing to be more engaging would need to have space dogfights, for which current movement type isnt most fitting for, and to resolve that I though it would be best if archwing had two modes of movement like in "strike suit zero" game, it would look kinda like this:

• high speed mode where our archwing works like space jet fighter, it would be best if our pimary weapon would rotate forward under our "wing" and would shot toward direction we are flying(holding weapon forward while moving at full speed with archwing doesnt really make sense to me, since a lot of forces would be affecting your weapon, both during shooting and during turning)
• hover mode would work like archwing works currently which is slower but has better control of movement

This is how dual movement modes work in strike suit zero:

Another game from which DE could pull inspiration from for archwing could be "dark void", this game could help them with how to integrate ground and archwing game modes:

at the beginning of the video we see switching between ground and flying combat and at around 1:07 we see how archwing could be used to make maps  more 3 dimensional, with archwing you could add verticality to maps, fighting enemies on side of cliff/wall while you are running up the wall pushed by your archwing(running up the wall instead stupid looking bunny hops)

here are more video's showing off jet pack in game dark void:

 

and the beginning of this video:

 

 

I also heard someone idea, to make archwing more like "strike vector" game:

The guy who said it, meant it mostly movement-wise to be more like this game.

 

What are your guys opinion about this stuff, do you have your own ideas you want to share how to improve archwing ?

Edited June 23, 2017 by Culaio

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, Shy0 said:

i did try to read through the thread. problem was, the feeling i was getting was that people were asking for a completely different game that wasn't warframe so i stopped and therefore suggested you try other games for a spell if you're bored.

wf is basically a co-op horde third-person shooter. there's very little room to fit in complex and "interesting" mechanics when you've got hundreds of basic AI mobs trying to mow you down while you're trying to be an awesome space ninja and complete your objective. there's already lots of content to spend time doing, and i do agree with you when you say there's a certain lack of polish and cohesiveness mostly because the content was added in bit-by-bit over the years and DE seem very keen to just keep adding stuff instead of going back now and then to make sure everything fits together.

you have to realise though that what you are asking them to do is go back and redesign the whole game from the ground up, because if they start messing with the pace and complexity of combat and mission objectives, they'd have to redo everything: the frames, mods, abilities, weapons (and their mods), enemies, scaling, drop rates, the economy, which is unrealistic. yes, it would be nice to have better melee, and interesting archwing, and balance, and scaling, and everything else, but you're better off asking them to make a new mmo set in the wf universe with all those things you want. side note: the beta tag has been dropped on official webpages but for some reason the wiki still thinks it's open beta.

i've been playing wf on-and-off since 2014 myself, have all the frames, etc. and i've been playing games a long time. in the gaming world, nothing lasts forever, and there're loads of experiences available to you out there, though few ever come close to perfect. you might be passionate enough to want wf to do better and evolve forever and ever, but the problems you've pointed out are fundamental to the game, and changing them would involve a total makeover, which i doubt DE are keen to do. i used to post a long time back (probably archived now) about what i noticed were fundamental problems with the game too, but realised the game was what it was and things weren't going to change massively, hence, the realistic thing to do would be to try other games out and come back now and again. the unwise thing to do would be to pine for that "perfect" warframe which you're unlikely to get, post on the forums till your fingers bleed and end up disappointed regardless, with stumps for fingers.

Not a single person has asked them to redesign the game. Let me ask you: What other games have you played or are playing? Have you ever enjoyed any game other than Warframe, and if so, what was it? Have you ever enjoyed any other third person shooter? Because I don't see how you can enjoy any other third person shooter and then come here and criticize people who are simply asking for DE to add more stuff for us to do in the game. Wanting them to give us more to do in missions and in the environment isn't asking them to turn Warframe into some other game. Wanting more objectives in missions isn't going to change the pace of the game, and changing the complexity of the game isn't a bad thing at all. It's merely asking them to let us do more.

Your argument is an old, tired one, and my guess is that you actually are not familiar with other third person shooters. Because you can't play other games, where the focus is on the gameplay experience, and then come here and think Warframe would have to be reinvented for new additions to work. Was the game reinvented when they added archwing? No. Was it reinvented when they added Focus? No. Was it reinvented when they added Lunaro? No. Was it reinvented when they added Operators? No. Was it reinvented when they made their PvP reworks? No. Was it reinvented when they added Kubrows and then Kavats? No. Nothing that has been suggested would require DE reinventing their game.

I understand you not expecting things to change, so you think there's no point in saying anything. I've got a friend who is the same way. But changes have occurred because people in the community spoke up enough. And, from my perspective, I've put too much money into this game to not speak up about what I think are Warframe's problems and what I think DE can do to solve those problems.

Edited June 23, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, Culaio said:

I have question to people here, from what games you I think DE could pull inspiration to make archwing better ? I just want to hear people's opinion about this, I know different people want archwing to be different thing which is why I want to hear people's opinion.

I personally always though that archwing to be more engaging would need to have space dogfights, for which current movement type isnt most fitting for, and to resolve that I though it would be best if archwing had two modes of movement like in "strike suit zero" game, it would look kinda like this:

• high speed mode where our archwing works like space jet fighter, it would be best if our pimary weapon would rotate forward under our "wing" and would shot toward direction we are flying(holding weapon forward while moving at full speed with archwing doesnt really make sense to me, since a lot of forces would be affecting your weapon, both during shooting and during turning)
• hover mode would work like archwing works currently which is slower but has better control of movement

This is how dual movement modes work in strike suit zero:

Another game from which DE could pull inspiration from for archwing could be "dark void", this game could help them with how to integrate ground and archwing game modes:

at the beginning of the video we see switching between ground and flying combat and at around 1:07 we see how archwing could be used to make maps  more 3 dimensional, with archwing you could add verticality to maps, fighting enemies on side of cliff/wall while you are running up the wall pushed by your archwing(running up the wall instead stupid looking bunny hops)

here are more video's showing off jet pack in game dark void:

and the beginning of this video:

 

I also heard someone idea, to make archwing more like "strike vector" game:

The guy who said it, meant it mostly movement-wise to be more like this game.

 

What are your guys opinion about this stuff, do you have your own ideas you want to share how to improve archwing ?

Honestly, I want to be able to use our landing crafts as combat crafts. I don't think that archwing is thrilling. And thrilling is kinda key to space combat, imo. It's gotta be like a dogfight. That requires a specific aircraft-based control scheme. So, for that, I'd look at games like the original Star Wars Battlefront 2, or the reboot Star Wars Battlefront. I'd also look to that game for inspiration on space-based game modes.

There's still a place for Archwing. I'd honestly like to see Archwing used as Combat Air Support, where we're in the air above the ground. If DE would add in enemy space ships on tiles, and not just transport ships, then we could bring in Archwings to deal with them. You could then design entirely new Archwing missions (and then you could look at some of your examples for inspiration). I was even thinking that Vay Hek would make for a very interesting Archwing boss (his current boss fight is terrible imo).

[P0Pz]

@Culaio

Strike Suite buddy!

---------------------------------

This seems by "the look at"... the 1k% better archwing modus.

-----------------------------------

Well you know what i realy noticed?

WF is missing music to transport battle atmosphere or out of battles a "uff..we made it music", normal different typs of music for each planet typ...

We r missing aaa loot InGame...sadly

[ikkabotz]

On 6/23/2017 at 0:49 AM, -N7-Leonhart said:

Yes, and you still go back to Warframe as well. In fact, it's the game that I have been going back to the most over the years, so it's not the game, but us that is the problem.

Honestly, I can't see it. I can't see what can they introduce that will keep us hooked for an indefinite amount of time. Any new mechanic will start to feel flat once I dump 100 more hours or so on it...

I'm curious what you're defending in this post? It's baffling to me players are on the resistance to their fellow tenno pointing out some pretty apparent flaws in the gameplay and even presenting solutions. Overall the goal is to improve the experience. What's even more baffling is a lot of people resist needed discussion. I just don't get it. 

Game needs work, even if it's just scaling AI on a more gradual curve to put some space between cheesing and certain death. I don't understand how issues apparent to gameplay mean "oh, you just need a break. It's the players, not the game. Anyone who has that many hours will inevitably get bored.". What? I don't see eye to eye on this one. Someone explain, because on the surface to me it looks like what's being said is if you put the issues away long enough you'll forget about them.

Quite frankly, that's not me. Not anymore. If anything people should respect players who have played longer weighing in on the state of the game instead of waiving their experiences as burnout. Talk about issues from top to bottom within the devs and community. I think it's so oblivious and rude to neglect experienced players like the community does. Why are they being shunned? There's a big problem with this and turns me off from the game even more. I get change is risky and there are some truths to the game people want to protect, but I feel there are some core things that can get addressed with enough discussion.

Such as improvement to the playing experience in mission! More synergy and expression, less cheese and certain death with nothing in between!

I think that's a fair goal, but the ultimate issue is the newer player base is still preoccupied with their haste of insatiable greed. It will eventually peak for them, and then they'll be stuck with the same questions already being asked here.

Edited June 24, 2017 by komoriblues

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 hours ago, komoriblues said:

I'm curious what you're defending in this post? It's baffling to me players are on the resistance to their fellow tenno pointing out some pretty apparent flaws in the gameplay and even presenting solutions. Overall the goal is to improve the experience. What's even more baffling is a lot of people resist needed discussion. I just don't get it. 

Game needs work, even if it's just scaling AI on a more gradual curve to put some space between cheesing and certain death. I don't understand how issues apparent to gameplay mean "oh, you just need a break. It's the players, not the game. Anyone who has that many hours will inevitably get bored.". What? I don't see eye to eye on this one. Someone explain, because on the surface to me it looks like what's being said is if you put the issues away long enough you'll forget about it.

Quite frankly, that's not me. Not anymore. If anything people should respect players who have played longer weighing in on the state of the game instead of waiving their experiences as burn out. Talk about issues from top to bottom. I get change is risky and there are some truths to the game people want to protect, but I feel there are some core things that can get addressed with enough discussion.

1) Improvement to the experience in gameplay. More synergy and expression, less cheese and certain death. More emphasis on development to this improvement. 

I think that's a fair goal 

Not really defending the game, but I merely recognize the problem for what it is. There is no single game in this word that can keep you entertained and wanting for more for an infinite amount of time. So, if you say that the game is boring when you have 2k+ hours, it's time to recognize the fact that the game did a whole lot to keep you entertained all this time.

It's not like they will stop developing. New stuff gets added all the time, but a completely new game, that is needed to remove the boredom, won't happen.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

@-N7-LeonhartBut you wont live for an infinite amount of time, nor will you play video games for the majority of your life (you shouldnt)....no one said anything about infinite, but trying to cap someone at 2k hours is a little silly as well, when many of the same players here have put that much time if not more into other games and told you so...

[ikkabotz]

@-N7-Leonhart

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense . I'm talking about gameplay though and less about content. How the game feels from hour 70 or hour 2k. I still think it feels a bit off pace. What I mean about respecting the amount of hours from veterans is that they have seen the game in different updates and versions and can speak from experience on the differences in how the game plays and feels. I hope that clarifies a bit of the confusion of where I was speaking from about veteran players, because I do know there are a lot of people with max hours looking for more content too. That isn't where my main priority is when I speak about the game right now though. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by komoriblues

[OniDax]

24 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Not really defending the game, but I merely recognize the problem for what it is. There is no single game in this word that can keep you entertained and wanting for more for an infinite amount of time. So, if you say that the game is boring when you have 2k+ hours, it's time to recognize the fact that the game did a whole lot to keep you entertained all this time.

It's not like they will stop developing. New stuff gets added all the time, but a completely new game, that is needed to remove the boredom, won't happen.

This issue really has nothing to do with the amount of hours someone spends in the game or the amount of content items the game offers. It's about what the gameplay experience offers. It's not about what you can get in the game, but what you can do in the game. And I don't mean any offense, but the problem with you and others here who are trying to derail the discussion by saying "Just quit, just take a break, just play another game" is that you all are focused on "new stuff" - what you can get, not what you can do. And so, your answers are always that the game can't provide unlimited content. Again, it's not about what items you can get. It's about the core gameplay experience and how it needs to be more developed, more fleshed out, expanded and evolved so that it offers more for the player to do. That's not something that's just geared towards veterans or new players. It's geared towards all players.

[Me.KayOh]

On 6/9/2017 at 9:02 AM, Elvangreen said:

The thing is, whenever they add something new, people complain, and then they get worried about putting more effort into it, and it gets left behind.

E.g. Focus, Channeling, Lunaro, Operator, Archwing.

 

And if they stop producing new content to take time to overhaul old systems like damage and scaling, they would lose players who just want a constant flow of new weapons, missions, and quests.

 

Also, DE are a lot smaller then many other game companies, so it will take a while for them to make the game into what they want it to be. There is a reason its still in beta.

 

If your bored, then feel free to go off and play another game, come back in a year or two, then have fun exploring the way the game has evolved in your absence.

 

Personally, i have a variety of things i do to keep myself interested:

- I might help and guide new players.

- i might pick up a rarely used gun and try to max out its potential.

- i might go and try to fight sentients on lua using only weapons like daggers, or explosives.

- i might hit the randomize button then try to complete a sortie solo, using that random gear.

- i might farm a bit of kuva and roll a riven a few times, but in a fleeting fun way, not a hard grind.

- i might try to fill my codex entries.

- i might try to do long defence/survival missions

etc.

 

Overall, they have a choice, Keep making more content and money, and drag the game out a good few years until it dies, or take the plunge and rework damage, scaling, mods, focus, operators, and archwing, and hope that enough people recognize the necessity and support them in this.

There are good signs, with a melee 2.5 and focus 2.0 at tennocon, but only time will tell if they are going to take the plunge and work toward the games true potential, rather than keeping it as-is, and just releasing a stream of guns and frames.

This.

everyone is different and will have a different opinion of the game, and will react differently to the game's content. i get bored periodically too. and so i take some time out from the game. so what used to happen is that, i'd play alot, burn out too quickly and then stay away for a long time and then come back maybe on the cusp of a major update. however recently I've managed to stay in the game for quite some time. i guess i tried much shorter intermittent breaks etc. which worked this time. its surprising that i havent rly moved away from it yet.

but even at MR23 there's still things for me to do in the game. and nowadays i'm getting it done. i used to have like tunnel vision and i'd do one thing over and over. but I dont do that anymore. especially with Kuva, you cannot do that. its dangerous.

However I really do think that DE understands where their gameplay is. so lets hope that the teaser last devstream with Ballas is hinting at something good.

[Aedwynn]

Oh come on, guys. Years pass by but same old excuses. It's Beta! DE is a small team! It's community's fault!

It's all quite simple.

DE made a bunch of errors when designing core game. Then instead of fixing them while it was still real beta they pushed for content. Now game is broken to the point that only regular additions of "new content" saves it from unescapable demise. And amount of required work to fix that core is so large they fear to loose the remaining players they have. Anyone playing for a couple of years can check a simple fact: his friend list is full of inactive entries of players who left this game for good. If it had a good core, people would find themselves what to do, but they simply can't. As many people said warframe is wide as ocean and shallow as puddle. Making suggestions? Providing feedback? I am here since Closed Beta and I assure you that such feedback just goes straight to archive. The only things that matter is what developers can actually fix: clipping pieces of gear and wrong animations for syandanas. Unlike TS, I don't believe in DE anymore and I don't believe they are doing their best. From my opinion, they already switched to new project and abandoned any hope of actually fixing warframe.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Warframe does not need to be drug through the mud, sustained only by updates, until it dies. If thats the case, just take it out back and shoot it now.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

46 minutes ago, Aedwynn said:

Oh come on, guys. Years pass by but same old excuses. It's Beta! DE is a small team! It's community's fault!

It's all quite simple.

DE made a bunch of errors when designing core game. Then instead of fixing them while it was still real beta they pushed for content. Now game is broken to the point that only regular additions of "new content" saves it from unescapable demise. And amount of required work to fix that core is so large they fear to loose the remaining players they have. Anyone playing for a couple of years can check a simple fact: his friend list is full of inactive entries of players who left this game for good. If it had a good core, people would find themselves what to do, but they simply can't. As many people said warframe is wide as ocean and shallow as puddle. Making suggestions? Providing feedback? I am here since Closed Beta and I assure you that such feedback just goes straight to archive. The only things that matter is what developers can actually fix: clipping pieces of gear and wrong animations for syandanas. Unlike TS, I don't believe in DE anymore and I don't believe they are doing their best. From my opinion, they already switched to new project and abandoned any hope of actually fixing warframe.

Warframe is a horde shooter. And horde shooters are decently popular if they are designed with fun and satisfaction in mind. Warframe could be a grindy horde shooter with a lot of random crafting and little useful things to farm. The problem is, that current build ignores 90% of the mechanics and content present in the game, focusing on short uninterractive missions and melee-coptering.

It is possible to patch-fix warframe's core in a few relatively simple steps and completely fix it for good with endless raids and high base level endless mission modes. Ducats\kuva value expansion would also flesh out these two resources as a useful ingame currency and establish those as a viable reward for the added effort in those high-end missions.

 Warframe is bad because it's built for accessibility - not satisfaction. And it's not even the right kind of accessibility, when, for example, universal vacuum on warframes would allow players to use other companions; or self-damage gating would allow people to use aoe weapons. Accessibility we have in Warframe right now is "I didn't play this game for even a week, but I would get the same kind of rewards as my teammate who played this game for 5000hours - despite dying every second in a low lvl mission and hanging over his neck as dead weight".

Almost forgot about timers - every single little thing is locked behind a timer, as if gameplay is SO GOOD that you are not allowed to have too much of it whenever you want.    

Edited June 23, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[OniDax]

57 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Warframe is a horde shooter. And horde shooters are decently popular if they are designed with fun and satisfaction in mind. Warframe could be a grindy horde shooter with a lot of random crafting and little useful things to farm. The problem is, that current build ignores 90% of the mechanics and content present in the game, focusing on short uninterractive missions and melee-coptering.

It is possible to patch-fix warframe's core in a few relatively simple steps and completely fix it for good with endless raids and high base level endless mission modes. Ducats\kuva value expansion would also flesh out these two resources as a useful ingame currency and establish those as a viable reward for the added effort in those high-end missions.

 Warframe is bad because it's built for accessibility - not satisfaction. And it's not even the right kind of accessibility, when, for example, universal vacuum on warframes would allow players to use other companions; or self-damage gating would allow people to use aoe weapons. Accessibility we have in Warframe right now is "I didn't play this game for even a week, but I would get the same kind of rewards as my teammate who played this game for 5000hours - despite dying every second in a low lvl mission and hanging over his neck as dead weight".

Almost forgot about timers - every single little thing is locked behind a timer, as if gameplay is SO GOOD that you are not allowed to have too much of it whenever you want.    

Accessibility and satisfaction are not mutually-exclusive. Nor will more difficulty fix the problems that this game has. No, rather, this game is built for rewards, not gameplay. It prizes the reward items you get from missions, not the missions themselves. It focuses on the content you can collect in the game, not the players' core gameplay experience. That is why Warframe's gameplay suffers. That is why Warframe is "bad." Making changes that encourage gameplay over rewards is the only way to fix Warframe's core issues.

Edited June 24, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Iccotak]

4 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Not really defending the game, but I merely recognize the problem for what it is. There is no single game in this word that can keep you entertained and wanting for more for an infinite amount of time. So, if you say that the game is boring when you have 2k+ hours, it's time to recognize the fact that the game did a whole lot to keep you entertained all this time.

It's not like they will stop developing. New stuff gets added all the time, but a completely new game, that is needed to remove the boredom, won't happen.

You are missing the point. We are not saying that it has to keep us entertained for eternity. We are NOT saying that.
We are saying that the game is very clearly an incomplete product and we want DE to focus on creating a complete game rather than constantly releasing new toys to keep their player base addicted to grinding.

The Whole point of it being open Beta was so then we could give our feedback about what Core Features a game of this scale is missing.
Instead they prioritize on new Warframes and Weapons (Which we have plenty of!)

The Main Benefit of Tenno-Con is so then DE can make the community understand that they are working on big things for the game. 
That way when it comes to the community's demands to add meaningless stuff, DE can say that they are busy working on big things that will be revealed at Tenno-Con.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Warframe does not need to be drug through the mud, sustained only by updates, until it dies. If thats the case, just take it out back and shoot it now.

^^THIS^^
If Warframe is just going to be in endless Alpha/Beta that is only kept alive by updates that bring new toys and that is all DE intends to do, then what is the point? 
The game is clearly not finished.
If they intend for the only thing to do is to grind the same missions on the same Bullet-jumping tile sets with a quest or two a year, then that sounds like a failure waiting to happen.
We don't want status quo, We want Progress.

[OniDax]

50 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

We don't want status quo, We want Progress.

That says it quite well. We want progress. Progress towards what? A complete product. A complete product doesn't mean there will be no more updates, no more content. No. A complete product just means that the core game is feature-complete, no longer in need of major reworks and changes. And it means that the core game is a holistic product, meaning there's a clear, organized structure to the game, and its features, and its gameplay. Most AAA games, while they often are kinda lacking in content items, are complete products. There's a clear focus of the game, a clear gameplay experience that the developers want players to experience, and everything in the game works toward that experience. Warframe isn't there yet. We want Warframe to progress to that point, where it is complete.

[Awazx]

3 hours ago, Aedwynn said:

Oh come on, guys. Years pass by but same old excuses. It's Beta! DE is a small team! It's community's fault!I

+1