Allow Sentinel + Companion?

[H8FaTe]

TWO companions is better then ONE - But not for the sake of Damage!

Alright so before people spit out "OP" or "lame" excuses...

It would be very nice if we could have Both the Sentinel AND an companion.

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Q: Alright but how do we balance this to not have 2 attack pets?
A: Sentinel will not be able Equip weapon if secondary pet is active (Kubrow/Cat).

Q: Alright so i have a dog/cat pet now but why not a weapon on sentinel?
A: Consider you already got a "weapon" in terms of your dog/cat, you dont need an on your sentinel aswell.

Q: So why even have sentinel out if i have my dog/cat?
A: Simply becuse they are the absolut BEST "Vacuum cleaners" there is!
-- Carrier: Ammo
-- Helios: Scan + Weakness
-- Shade: Stealth Support
-- Taxon: Shield booster

Q: Alright but how about mods, Cant use duplicates on each?
A: NO = If one kind of mod is on Sentinel, The same type should not be viable on your Cat/Dog. (For balance sake).
-------------------

Alright i think i have answeared some of the major questions that may come up.
- Do YOU have more questions for DE?
Please add them in the comments below!

Edit (1): Added Sentinels Type of Pets + Their benefits (if double-pets).

Edited June 10, 2017 by SevenSinsofHell

[lukinu_u]

Considering how weak are the sentinel weapons, the weapon restriction is probably not necessary. Maybe just block sentinel+companion function behind a quest or incubator upgrade in the dojo.

[H8FaTe]

Yea that is a good idea, 

Quest - to unlock Duability with using Two companions at once, such as the (Sentinel+Animal Companion).
- Thats gives an Foundry Upgrade (tool) or something.

[Darkvramp]

they should just rip up the vacuum mod and give all warframes a 10 meter vacuum as passive and put an option in the setting to turn it off for people that dont want that,  whoever those crazy people are.

[Xebov]

3 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

they should just rip up the vacuum mod and give all warframes a 10 meter vacuum as passive and put an option in the setting to turn it off for people that dont want that,  whoever those crazy people are.

Exactly this.

[GLTHX]

1. Scrap the DNA credits sink (which isn't really a sink, but an irritating mechanic) on pets

2. Make upgrade segment allow both pet and sentinel, so it still serves a purpose

3. Pets finally get some use

4. Profit!

As a 'dog person' (if it wasn't obvious from my avatar), I support this idea.

[TheChaotic1]

I support this, there will be cheese but it will be worth it

[BiancaRoughfin]

I support this too since i love my Kubro but i rarely bring him with me because i need the vacuum and Ammo case of my Carrier. :/

[(PSN)horridhal]

I actually support this but I don't feel either should be prevented from attacking.

I basically level my Kavats/Kubrows then place them all into stasis because none of them offer me the utility that my Sentinels do based solely off the ability to use the Vacuum mod along with their other precepts.  This change would give me the ability to run both and I would really enjoy it. 

[Aedwynn]

Sigh. The point of having one companion is that you have to choose what to bring to the fight. But people are greedy, they want all and now. Th real issue why this thread exists in first place is lack of balance and numerous bugs associated with companions.

• Vacuum is too "must have" type mod. Instead of being passive of any companion you equip, it is tied to certain companion group. Come on DE, did you learn nothing from it being Carrier exclusive?
• Sentinel's damage output is far lower compared to beast companions.
• Kubrows/Kavats have a lot of pathing issues. They can't enter certain rooms because they have no pathing for them. They can't even go from one map tile to another.
• Kubrows/Kavats combat behaviour is erratic as they try to 1) stay close to player 2) attack enemies 3) Use various abilities they have
• Kubrows/Kavats are more susceptible to damage as they can be targeted by enemies and affected by all AoE sources

Solve those issues and there would be no need to have both pets at same time.

[Tesseract7777]

Why are so many many putting their +1 on a totally unbalanced and poorly though through idea that is way too OP and will never be implemented by DE?

Because this is way too strong, even with limitations, and will never be implemented by DE.

I don't know why people insist on not understanding this, but sentinels and companions are supposed to be very different choices. You are not supposed to get to have your cake and eat it too. You are supposed to have to make a choice. 

This will never happen, I wish people would stop asking for it. 

And yes I read how you would "balance" it, and it isn't enough, and it won't ever be done. 

[(PSN)horridhal]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Why are so many many putting their +1 on a totally unbalanced and poorly though through idea that is way too OP and will never be implemented by DE?

Because this is way too strong, even with limitations, and will never be implemented by DE.

I don't know why people insist on not understanding this, but sentinels and companions are supposed to be very different choices. You are not supposed to get to have your cake and eat it too. You are supposed to have to make a choice. 

This will never happen, I wish people would stop asking for it. 

And yes I read how you would "balance" it, and it isn't enough, and it won't ever be done. 

You seem really upset that people support the usage of both.  It isn't an unbalanced or poorly thought out idea, tbh.  It doesn't matter what mods I put on my Sentinel or my Companion, neither even comes close to hitting the DPS of my guns so the choice really boils down to "Do I want to have to walk over every item to pick it up?" or "Do I want a hoover on my shoulder?" with little else involved in the decision making process.

Stop pretending like having both a Sentinel and a Companion together would break the game in any meaningful sense.

[AandOE]

Outside of game function reasons, if the Warframe universe was *real*, you'd be able to take along any number of sentinels and companions, which is why this topic continues to resurface. :3 Multiple animals on the field? Check. Army of Sentinels? Check. Rewiring your Nekros to summon the rest of your inventory, 'frames, and companions to the field? Check. There's really no reason that these sorts of things wouldn't be able to happen in the long run, unless we take game functions into consideration.

[Tesseract7777]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

You seem really upset that people support the usage of both.  It isn't an unbalanced or poorly thought out idea, tbh.  It doesn't matter what mods I put on my Sentinel or my Companion, neither even comes close to hitting the DPS of my guns so the choice really boils down to "Do I want to have to walk over every item to pick it up?" or "Do I want a hoover on my shoulder?" with little else involved in the decision making process.

Stop pretending like having both a Sentinel and a Companion together would break the game in any meaningful sense.

I don't need to pretend, I know. I'm not going to get into an extended debate, as the whole thing is moot, we already all know its not going to happen. I'm not upset, but I do find it amazing how many people continue to think that this is a balanced idea, or something the devs would really consider.

You are completely ignoring the massive utility both provide, this has nothing to do with dps, no one makes their companion choice based on dps, that's a side thing. The utility is what matters, and this would be a massive increase to utility. Completely unnecessary power creep, all because some people want to be able to use a kavat or kubrow, but also not have to move around and collect loot. 

[Aedwynn]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

My premise being that having both equipped wouldn't break the game and, realistically, it wouldn't.  At least no more so than having the Naramon or Vazarin Focus schools equipped, or using heavily formaed and modded weapons for low level content, etc.  For all your talk of utility added by both, Sentinels add relatively little besides saving you time or pads.  The same goes for Companions.

I don't need to read your mind, bucko.  You make it obvious when your first comment in the thread is complaining about other people agreeing with said thread.

Just stop and look at yourself. Instead of choosing what to bring, you want it all. Reason? Lack of balance and some bugs present. The problem is that you don't want stuff to be fixed. You want easy way, not having to choose something. Doesn't break game? Bringing two main guns won't break game either, as it is already in quite broken state, with 1 gun doing 20000% more damage per second than another.

Sentinels provide their own kind of service: restore player's HP, restore shields an create overshields, convert ammo, suck in loot.

Beasts serve as distraction, provide their own buffs, open containers, dig out loot, CC enemy.

All limitations you mentioned conveniently overlook possibility to bring all most desired tools to battle.

Let's talk straight. If we limit total capacity of two pets to 30 (60 only when both are potatoed) and bringing exclusive mods from one group automatically denies the use of exclusive mods from another, would you still be up for that idea?

[_Vortus_]

Like the idea.

[H8FaTe]

On 2017-6-10 at 9:21 PM, Aedwynn said:

Just stop and look at yourself. Instead of choosing what to bring, you want it all. Reason? Lack of balance and some bugs present. The problem is that you don't want stuff to be fixed. You want easy way, not having to choose something. Doesn't break game? Bringing two main guns won't break game either, as it is already in quite broken state, with 1 gun doing 20000% more damage per second than another.

Sentinels provide their own kind of service: restore player's HP, restore shields an create overshields, convert ammo, suck in loot.

Beasts serve as distraction, provide their own buffs, open containers, dig out loot, CC enemy.

All limitations you mentioned conveniently overlook possibility to bring all most desired tools to battle.

Let's talk straight. If we limit total capacity of two pets to 30 (60 only when both are potatoed) and bringing exclusive mods from one group automatically denies the use of exclusive mods from another, would you still be up for that idea?

Alright consider the (Highlighted Text), My idea was not to "limit the mod capacity of either" but if thats the sacrifice, so be it.

- My idea as mentioned before is "If you have ONE Kind of mod on (ex: Sentinel), You will NOT be able to use it aswell on the companion".
- There must be a Give & Take, to balance it out.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, Aedwynn said:

Just stop and look at yourself. Instead of choosing what to bring, you want it all. Reason? Lack of balance and some bugs present. The problem is that you don't want stuff to be fixed. You want easy way, not having to choose something. Doesn't break game? Bringing two main guns won't break game either, as it is already in quite broken state, with 1 gun doing 20000% more damage per second than another.

I want it "all" because I want to be able to use my Kubrows/Kavats for something more than mastery fodder and stasis?  If that's the case then, yeah, I want it "all".

As to Kubrows/Kavats being fixed, nothing about this idea would preclude that from happening.  Just because we can use both doesn't mean they can't fix pathing and other issues that crop up with companions.  By the by, you are right, bringing two main guns wouldn't break the game as many secondaries are more powerful than mains.  Again, though, nothing about this idea is "Overpowered" in the way you, or the other poster, are trying to claim any more so than Naramon or Zenurik passives were overpowered and game breaking when they dropped.

Quote

Sentinels provide their own kind of service: restore player's HP, restore shields an create overshields, convert ammo, suck in loot.

Beasts serve as distraction, provide their own buffs, open containers, dig out loot, CC enemy.

If you are really relying on your Sentinel to do much more than suck in loot, and in the case of carrier convert ammo drops, or your companions for "CC" or distraction, you shouldn't be running whatever mission you are running.  Are there certain things that would have to go along with such a change for necessity's sake?  Sure, even the OP admitted that.  You pretending the idea is wholly impossible to implement fairly is laughable, at best, though.

Quote

Let's talk straight. If we limit total capacity of two pets to 30 (60 only when both are potatoed) and bringing exclusive mods from one group automatically denies the use of exclusive mods from another, would you still be up for that idea?

Why would I not?  I'm not bringing them in to garner extra exp or for any great contribution they make to me as a player because, realistically, anything my pets or sentinels can do I can do better, faster, stronger, whatever.  

[blackheartstar_pc]

7 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I don't need to pretend, I know. I'm not going to get into an extended debate, as the whole thing is moot, we already all know its not going to happen. I'm not upset, but I do find it amazing how many people continue to think that this is a balanced idea, or something the devs would really consider.

You are completely ignoring the massive utility both provide, this has nothing to do with dps, no one makes their companion choice based on dps, that's a side thing. The utility is what matters, and this would be a massive increase to utility. Completely unnecessary power creep, all because some people want to be able to use a kavat or kubrow, but also not have to move around and collect loot. 

There are also a lot of us that do not get hung up on "balance" or "power creep". We are here to have fun not analyze the the structure of how some people feel games should be designed. My only issue with this idea is clutter. 

With that you are correct in one thing here. It isn't going to happen.

 

[djternan]

I have a 5-forma Smeeta Kavat with all mods maxed that doesn't see the outside of the stasis chamber unless we get a 4x resource weekend.  Vacuum is just worth so much more than the uncertain utility that any other pet has a chance to give.

[Djego27]

Well the idea is to chose, if vacuum is so important to you that you have to use a sentinel, then this is a personal choice. I for myself next to never use sentinels, given her poor damage, utility and survivability at higher levels compared to Kavats and Kubros.

In my personal opinion, Kubrows need work, 2 of 5 do not really do what they are supposed to do(because of in combat mechanics and in case of the cheesa because the range should be 4-8 times what it is so it can actually pick up ammo for you while you can not move away from a position like in high level defence missions). Sunika needs another role and the capture target thing should be a 3 kubrow percept since it is far to niche.

Other then that, outside of path finding issues, AI bugs and some annoying stuff like kuva sentinels rag doll them to death in one hit or how stupid her interaction is with our poorly designed god mode bosses that easy never get out of god mode if they have something in melee range they are fairly useful, even if they need more forma, resources and a few clicks more each day.

I never would use wyrm over my raksha kubrow, because the shield restore on the kubrow is far better for what you need at high levels and the CC is just far superior. Sahasa, how useful is auto loot pickup when you are 60 waves into a solo defence or 1h+ into solo survival? Not really much given that ammo and energy drops are rare at this levels, what makes a companion that can generate them for you much better then one that picks them up. Same as the old cheesa, that could pick up the loot for you on halve of the map, when you are unable to actually move away from your defence target, what you are if you do like 40 or more waves tower defence with Frost solo. Sure it takes a lot more time then running around and let vacuum suck them in, however that is not a problem for this applications, since you are not going anywhere and later waves take a bit more time on herself anyway.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

sentinel and pt were a thing way back

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

they should just rip up the vacuum mod and give all warframes a 10 meter vacuum as passive and put an option in the setting to turn it off for people that dont want that,  whoever those crazy people are.

This should have been done 4 years ago. 12 meters tho. Not 10. And 40-50 meters for archwings.

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Fallen_Echo]

Now this would actually make me defrost my helminth charger.

+1

[LabMan95]

I like this idea, but it seems too OP just having 2 full companions. I would like the idea if you could have 2, but both companions share the 10 mod slots instead of having 10 each.

Aside, it's hilarious what ideas people come up with when this could all be fixed by just having an innate vacuum in each warframe