Limbo needs a change ASAP

[Josel2696]

Limbo's habilities as of now are pretty powerful, and that's not my complain, I'm fine with warframes being overpowered in their specialties, BUT, you can't give a warframe control over what other players can or can't do/touch in the mission. 

Just imagine: You prepare to do sortie 3, mod your guns, your warframe and talk a strat with your friend in your party so it's a fun mission with a little bit of a challenge BUT GUESS WHAT? LIMBO JOINS AND RUINS EVERYBODYS MISSION WITH HIS COMBO ULT+2. Now nobody can use their hard worked forma weapons, we are all restricted to melee or certain habilities that won't do anything; because it's a really high level mission. Well let's pick up drops then OH TOOO BAD YOU CAN'T BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS IN LIMBO'S RIFT.

I'm sure nobody in DE is stupid, they already knew the consequences of this rework but I can't comprehend why didn't they change them to something that doesn't give control over other players.

If nothing is gonna be done to fix this at least please, pretty please, give us a button to kick players out of parties or missions.

Thank you if you did read all of that.

 

Edit:

I am sorry for this post being so crude, not only on my english but also in my manners. I'm not blaming DE, I'm saying I don't underestand the choice of giving Limbo so much power over the mission and other players. And this kick that I'm requesting is not for people that just use Limbo is for people that troll like what I have experienced so far since his rework.

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by [DE]Aidan
language.

[Marine027]

As much i agree but as always not jsut Limob is the problem but players who do and troll on purpose.

He needs tweaks yes, but then also give feedback and ideas instead of blaming DE and let those Limbos alone who actually play normal and help.

[Kastrel717]

Bcz of people like you they wont put kick/vote.Are you telling me you are ready to kick players bcz they are using warframe powers.

[ShadowStalker]

-

Edited June 10, 2017 by ShadowStalker

[Nezha_Rose]

naaaah. Knowing how picky this community is about other playstyles, its best we dont get a votekick

 

[ShadowStalker]

7 minutes ago, Josel2696 said:

habilities

 

8 minutes ago, Josel2696 said:

If nothing is gonna be done to fix this at least please, pretty please, give us a button to kick players out of parties or missions

Kick for using a frame? Nope

[AdunSaveMe]

Limbo has no reason to freeze projectiles. It does literally nothing except a) occasionally look cool and b) annoy the crap out of everyone else.

[Josel2696]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Limbo has no reason to freeze projectiles. It does literally nothing except a) occasionally look cool and b) annoy the crap out of everyone else.

he not only freezes projectiles, also any hitscan that's shot out of a weapon

[Music4Therapy]

You actually can pick up items in Limbo's Cataclysm, and if Limbo banishes you all you have to do is roll to exit and you're free to do what you like if you don't want the immunity to all non-abilities and 2 energy per second.

As far as trolling goes, Limbo can prevent players from hacking and freezes projectiles. This isn't an issue in organized squadplay, but can be in pubs if people don't communicate. It's fair that he is balanced this way, this is more of an issue with the player base itself misusing him. If you don't want to deal with it I'd exit the game, I have similar issues with Frost players that don't remove their globes or spam avalanche  (avalanche makes enemies immune to status effects while frozen)

[Stormandreas]

Why do you people always whine instead of thinking things through.

Limbo freezes time yes. this DOES NOT restrict you to melee. As I've said before multiple times to multiple people, fire some shots, you should know how much damage roughly you'll be doing, then move onto the next enemy, fire more shots, and so on.

Limbo is a warframe that makes things MUCH easier for the team. By stopping all enemies, he gives you every opening you need to kill them. Oh, and lets not forget, your powers work absolutely fine.

[RealMisterio]

Just one quick & easy feedback. Limbo's Timestop doesnt stop allied projectiles OR, it does only stop proyectiles while playing Solo.

We all agree the problem here is not Limbo needing a nerf, just a tweak to stop the players from fighting eachother, The same happened when there were complaints about Loki or Valkyr interfiring with allies. Here is the idea for Limbo: Limbo only stops his own projectiles/guns/events, all the items are pickable for allies, including datamasses.

Edited June 10, 2017 by RealMisterio

[Josel2696]

2 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Why do you people always whine instead of thinking things through.

Limbo freezes time yes. this DOES NOT restrict you to melee. As I've said before multiple times to multiple people, fire some shots, you should know how much damage roughly you'll be doing, then move onto the next enemy, fire more shots, and so on.

Limbo is a warframe that makes things MUCH easier for the team. By stopping all enemies, he gives you every opening you need to kill them. Oh, and lets not forget, your powers work absolutely fine.

The problem is when Limbo never stops his ultimate and his build is exclusively to make it last as long as possible in the biggest area possible, what about that?

[Stormandreas]

1 minute ago, Josel2696 said:

The problem is when Limbo never stops his ultimate and his build is exclusively to make it last as long as possible in the biggest area possible, what about that?

That's the exact build I run, and it works fine. What you do is keep shooting around the enemies, eventually stasis has to be turned off as it needs refreshed or runs out of time, or, it runs out of capacity and the enemies take the bullets to the face.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

Why do you people always whine instead of thinking things through.

Limbo freezes time yes. this DOES NOT restrict you to melee. As I've said before multiple times to multiple people, fire some shots, you should know how much damage roughly you'll be doing, then move onto the next enemy, fire more shots, and so on.

Limbo is a warframe that makes things MUCH easier for the team. By stopping all enemies, he gives you every opening you need to kill them. Oh, and lets not forget, your powers work absolutely fine.

Why do people always throw back these weak sorts of responses that basically amount to "git gud"?

1.  Limbo should freeze the enemies, that's perfectly fair.  He should not, however, freeze the DPS of other players who aren't enemies.  People shouldn't have to mentally keep trask of what can, quite easily, be 50+ enemies to remember if they shot at this one or how much damage their gun does to each specific enemy in a game like Warframe based around mobs.

2.  No, Limbo doesn't make things much easier for "the team", he makes things much easier for himself while being able to actively screw over other players on the team.  Nova, to use a counter-example, is beneficial to the team in the exact ways you view Limbo (opens enemies up to being killed by slowing them massively over a large area with a long duration) without actively being able to screw other players over with a single ability that covers a massive area.

3.  By all means, please feel free to respond with the inevitable "git gud" comment that ignores my massive amount of play-time and ability within the game in order to try and defend a trolling frame.

[Josel2696]

4 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

That's the exact build I run, and it works fine. What you do is keep shooting around the enemies, eventually stasis has to be turned off as it needs refreshed or runs out of time, or, it runs out of capacity and the enemies take the bullets to the face.

Well I don't know if that is fun for you but I don't find any sort of fun running around shooting the air for over a minute waiting for that to wear off and for some enemies to die

[AdunSaveMe]

11 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Why do you people always whine instead of thinking things through.

Why do people always claim others are whining just because they don't agree with them, despite their clear arguments?

[Stormandreas]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Why do people always throw back these weak sorts of responses that basically amount to "git gud"?

1.  Limbo should freeze the enemies, that's perfectly fair.  He should not, however, freeze the DPS of other players who aren't enemies.  People shouldn't have to mentally keep trask of what can, quite easily, be 50+ enemies to remember if they shot at this one or how much damage their gun does to each specific enemy in a game like Warframe based around mobs.

2.  No, Limbo doesn't make things much easier for "the team", he makes things much easier for himself while being able to actively screw over other players on the team.  Nova, to use a counter-example, is beneficial to the team in the exact ways you view Limbo (opens enemies up to being killed by slowing them massively over a large area with a long duration) without actively being able to screw other players over with a single ability that covers a massive area.

3.  By all means, please feel free to respond with the inevitable "git gud" comment that ignores my massive amount of play-time and ability within the game in order to try and defend a trolling frame.

And you called my response weak?

1. If you can't keep track of your enemies and rely solely on massive aoe attacks to clear enemies, then you won't ever realise to potential Limbo actually has.

2. Limbo does make things easier for the team. What the team need to realise is that they should work alongside the Limbo to maximise the opportunity they have been given. It's called a "team" for a reason.
Almost any Warframe with the right build and mentality can screw over a team. Take your example, Nova. Take a speedva in a level 80 sortie defence? Now is that useful? No. Why, because the enemies attack you at nearly double the speed, making you die that much quicker. Now that screws over players with a single ability over a massive area.

3. I'm not going to say "git gud" as thats a pointless comment. If you have so many hours in warframe, then why are you not experienced enough to have the insight to look into a Warframes abilities and devise tactics with said abilities? Don't underestimate my experience. I have clocked nearly 3000 hours into warframe, and have experimented extensively with every warframe to try and find interesting and optimum builds.

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Why do people always claim others are whining just because they don't agree with them, despite their clear arguments?

The Argument that is given here is, "you're forced into melee" "it screws players over" and that a vote kick is necessary. None of that is true, and holds no grounds. You're not forced into melee. If you were, you wouldn't even be holding your guns anymore (like what the Dhrak masters do for example).

The issue Limbo has, is players inexperience or unwillingness to learn or move away from the idea that he's a troll frame. As Limbo was first released with the ability to force people into the rift almost indefinitely, with no way for them to escape, people abused this and thus he got the title of 'troll frame'.
However, DE have done a number of changes to sort this, but despite that, everyone still cried for a re-work. He now got this re-work and is still being dubbed a 'troll frame' and people now cry for another re-work.
This happens because people arn't getting passed the troll days, and refuse to learn how to play one of the more complex frames in the game, simple because he doesn't do a big explosion that kills everything, so therefore, he must be bad!

[Josel2696]

1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

And you called my response weak?

1. If you can't keep track of your enemies and rely solely on massive aoe attacks to clear enemies, then you won't ever realise to potential Limbo actually has.

2. Limbo does make things easier for the team. What the team need to realise is that they should work alongside the Limbo to maximise the opportunity they have been given. It's called a "team" for a reason.
Almost any Warframe with the right build and mentality can screw over a team. Take your example, Nova. Take a speedva in a level 80 sortie defence? Now is that useful? No. Why, because the enemies attack you at nearly double the speed, making you die that much quicker. Now that screws over players with a single ability over a massive area.

3. I'm not going to say "git gud" as thats a pointless comment. If you have so many hours in warframe, then why are you not experienced enough to have the insight to look into a Warframes abilities and devise tactics with said abilities? Don't underestimate my experience. I have clocked nearly 3000 hours into warframe, and have experimented extensively with every warframe to try and find interesting and optimum builds.

The Argument that is given here is, "you're forced into melee" "it screws players over" and that a vote kick is necessary. None of that is true, and holds no grounds. You're not forced into melee. If you were, you wouldn't even be holding your guns anymore (like what the Dhrak masters do for example).

The issue Limbo has, is players inexperience or unwillingness to learn or move away from the idea that he's a troll frame. As Limbo was first released with the ability to force people into the rift almost indefinitely, with no way for them to escape, people abused this and thus he got the title of 'troll frame'.
However, DE have done a number of changes to sort this, but despite that, everyone still cried for a re-work. He now got this re-work and is still being dubbed a 'troll frame' and people now cry for another re-work.
This happens because people arn't getting passed the troll days, and refuse to learn how to play one of the more complex frames in the game, simple because he doesn't do a big explosion that kills everything, so therefore, he must be bad!

My point is not "you are forced to melee" or "we need a kick option" the point is that limbo needs a change to not control the playstyle of other players 

[Baterial]

last changes to limbo's 4th ability will be removed to pre-state

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

And you called my response weak?

1. If you can't keep track of your enemies and rely solely on massive aoe attacks to clear enemies, then you won't ever realise to potential Limbo actually has.

2. Limbo does make things easier for the team. What the team need to realise is that they should work alongside the Limbo to maximise the opportunity they have been given. It's called a "team" for a reason.
Almost any Warframe with the right build and mentality can screw over a team. Take your example, Nova. Take a speedva in a level 80 sortie defence? Now is that useful? No. Why, because the enemies attack you at nearly double the speed, making you die that much quicker. Now that screws over players with a single ability over a massive area.

3. I'm not going to say "git gud" as thats a pointless comment. If you have so many hours in warframe, then why are you not experienced enough to have the insight to look into a Warframes abilities and devise tactics with said abilities? Don't underestimate my experience. I have clocked nearly 3000 hours into warframe, and have experimented extensively with every warframe to try and find interesting and optimum builds.

It is a weak argument that basically revolves around you saying "La-la-la-la Your problems aren't real!"

1.  You are arguing from the standpoint of a solo player.  I am arguing from the basis that you have 4 people in the squad.  I can keep track of enemies just fine, that said I don't want to keep track of a massive group of statues in a large group just because you can't be bothered to aim while they move or dodge enemy fire.

2.  No, he doesn't.  Again Nova does what he does to a lesser (and better) extent while boosting the team's damage output.  You are also attempting to pretend that most Limbo's are willing to work together with their squad.  By and large, what I've seen from Limbo, is trolling or, effectively, soloing tactics in a 4 man squad so you get a larger spawn.

2 (B).  I do run Speed Nova against level 80 infested defenses.  Speed Nova +Frost with Chilling Globe makes the Defense much faster.  Nova can be modded a variety of ways to contribute effectively to a team.  Limbo can't.  That's simply the reality of his kit.  It is based around freezing DPS from both players and enemies, then unfreezing player DPS.  Warframe is a mob heavy game and such a kit is counterintuitive to any playstyle that isn't based specifically around it which relegates it to coordinated team play (Not PuGging) or solo play.  If you get down on Limbo in either of these two areas, bravo, but you need to realize the reality that most people are playing with random PuGs and Limbo is a troll frame to the point that when I see him in a cell I abandon the mission.

3.  It's cute that you say "I'm not going to say "git gud"" then do precisely that.  I can run Limbo well and can perform my job with a Limbo in my group.  That said, he adds no enjoyment to the completion of a mission nor does he offer anything that could be considered important that other frames can't provide.

By all means, though, please continue.

[Josel2696]

3 minutes ago, Baterial said:

last changes to limbo's 4th ability will be removed to pre-state

That's not even the problem with limbo we are talking about

[Stormandreas]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

It is a weak argument that basically revolves around you saying "La-la-la-la Your problems aren't real!"

1.  You are arguing from the standpoint of a solo player.  I am arguing from the basis that you have 4 people in the squad.  I can keep track of enemies just fine, that said I don't want to keep track of a massive group of statues in a large group just because you can't be bothered to aim while they move or dodge enemy fire.

2.  No, he doesn't.  Again Nova does what he does to a lesser (and better) extent while boosting the team's damage output.  You are also attempting to pretend that most Limbo's are willing to work together with their squad.  By and large, what I've seen from Limbo, is trolling or, effectively, soloing tactics in a 4 man squad so you get a larger spawn.

2 (B).  I do run Speed Nova against level 80 infested defenses.  Speed Nova +Frost with Chilling Globe makes the Defense much faster.  Nova can be modded a variety of ways to contribute effectively to a team.  Limbo can't.  That's simply the reality of his kit.  It is based around freezing DPS from both players and enemies, then unfreezing player DPS.  Warframe is a mob heavy game and such a kit is counterintuitive to any playstyle that isn't based specifically around it which relegates it to coordinated team play (Not PuGging) or solo play.  If you get down on Limbo in either of these two areas, bravo, but you need to realize the reality that most people are playing with random PuGs and Limbo is a troll frame to the point that when I see him in a cell I abandon the mission.

3.  It's cute that you say "I'm not going to say "git gud"" then do precisely that.  I can run Limbo well and can perform my job with a Limbo in my group.  That said, he adds no enjoyment to the completion of a mission nor does he offer anything that could be considered important that other frames can't provide.

By all means, though, please continue.

When did I ever insinuate that anyone's problems arn't real? No, I insinuated that those problems are created by yourself.

You are wrong here. I am not taking this from a solo player standpoint. I play in public games all the time as limbo, and you know what? No-one has complained to me. Why? Because I use the abilities as intended. I toggle stasis when needed. I keep it on when needed. I banish people when needed. Limbo is a frame that requires the correct timing and positioning to make the best use of his abilities.

In nearly every game I've had people commending me for my Limbo play, and after seeing me ONCE freeze everything, walk around and start shooting things, they follow suit and do the same. Then suddenly, every wave is complete with virtually no damage, and little effort.


Its players like you who give limbo players a bad name and almost force them into playing like they are Solo. Simply because a large number of people refuse to co-operate with someone simply because they like using Limbo, causes those Limbo players to play as if they were solo, or, try and troll everyone.

And FYI, I did not say, git gud. If I did, I would simply say, you're terribly and you need to be better. No, I asked you why you don't seem to have the insight to find each warframes potential, and to not act as if you're just a straight up better player than myself. Everyone is good at the game in different ways, and refusing to play with others simply because of their frame choice, imo, does not make you a good player. This is not me telling you to get good. This is me telling you to be more accepting of others playstyles.

You may call me hypocritical for arguing against the point that Limbo is a troll frame, however I have studied and experimented with limbo, and accept the fact he can be USED as a troll frame, but overall, he isn't. He is not intended that way.

The issue here lies with the players behind the warframe, not the warframe itself.

Limbo may add no enjoyment for you, but that does not mean he does not for other players.

[Jackviator]

The main issue with Limbo is that most players that use him don't effectively communicate with the squad. That problem is never going away as long as the Rift exists, no matter what changes are made to him.

Still, a few changes I've seen suggested before, and liked, that might alleviate (not fix completely, just alleviate) some of the problems he has at the moment, would be things like allowing the rest of your squad to enter and exit the Rift at will like Limbo does once they get Banished, and for Stasis to just be a CC ability that time-stops the enemies, not projectiles.

59 minutes ago, Josel2696 said:

If nothing is gonna be done to fix this at least please, pretty please, give us a button to kick players out of parties or missions.

*sigh* You lost me here. No. We will never (and SHOULD never) be given a kick option, for exactly this reason, because people like you will abuse it to kick people for petty AF reasons, such as:

Using weapons or frames that aren't meta for the mission in question

Using weapons or frames that are TOO meta for the mission in question (blitzing through exterminates with Ember so no one but them can kill stuff, etc)

Using a weapon or frame that other people don't like for some arbitrary reason like the sound it makes, or the visuals it creates (ex: the Synoid Simulor's plorp plorp plorp noises, or the Redeemer's screen-shakiness)

Using a bright energy color that they don't like on abilities or weapons that take up a lot of screen space (Absorb, Bastille, the Zenistar, etc)

Being Limbo, regardless of if he's changed or not, because let's be honest: as long as the Rift exists, people will hate Limbo, regardless of communication and whatnot

Or for no reason at all, just for the lulz.

[Ohforf3]

For your sortie issue get a 4th through chat or set the party to invite only so you know you won't get a limbo.  There are only 2 things that cause problems with limbo in my experience.

• Stasis getting cast on something that needs interacted with like mobile def terminals.  I have been in a few groups where the limbo had to be told multiple times to drop stasis so we can put the package in.
• The other is the random banishing of players.  A few times I have entered a defense mission and hopped onto a high point to snipe only to be thrown into the rift every couple seconds so my shots can't hit the enemies who are not in the rift.

[Bobtm]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

Why do you people always whine instead of thinking things through.

Limbo freezes time yes. this DOES NOT restrict you to melee. As I've said before multiple times to multiple people, fire some shots, you should know how much damage roughly you'll be doing, then move onto the next enemy, fire more shots, and so on.

Limbo is a warframe that makes things MUCH easier for the team. By stopping all enemies, he gives you every opening you need to kill them. Oh, and lets not forget, your powers work absolutely fine.

This right here is a prime example of exactly why Limbo needs to change.  The selfish mentality of "I'm helping, do what I say because I said so." that's used to defend the badly designed ability of Stasis is toxic to the game's community.  People aren't wrong to hate having to deal with Stasis' bad design, an ally should not be more in the way than they are helpful, in nearly 100% of their usage.

You say "think things through" but then provide a completely baseless, non-functional answer to the real problem that Limbo causes by using his powers.  When folks use the bad Limbo build that covers a wide area with high duration, shots fired by their gun won't actually be released for upwards of 30 seconds, unless one of the players was wise enough to bring one of the weapons that can instantly force Stasis to close.  In that upwards of 30 seconds time, Cataclysm will invariably shrink down and allow the enemies fired at to likely move around, meaning that those shots are no longer aiming towards any target at all.

And that's even assuming someone doesn't go by and melee the target before the shots are allowed to fire in the first place.  Which, realistically, will not actually occur when the duration of Stasis is so absurdly long by default.

Another thing that some folks somehow forget, video games are not purely about efficiency and nothing else, in fact that's the aside to their core purpose.  Enjoyment being the key here.  Some players put time and effort into forma'ing their guns so that they can enjoy using them.  It's incredibly unnecessary and outright bad design to let one frame just take away all gunplay from allies.

To draw a comparable, what if Valkyr's 4 worked in-line with Stasis in terms of mechanics as a hypothetical;

• Valkyr hits 4, all players are now forced into a "berserker" like melee mode.
• All players are invincible because lolbalance.
• Nobody can turn off this form except the Valkyr player who initiated it.

In this example the same fake and weak argument could be made.  "It's helpful because you still get a benefit." but in truth, it's not helpful at all.  Players don't play a video game that has choices so that an ally can arbitrarily remove those choices just because they feel like it.  That is outright bad design.  Just because something has benefits, it's not automatically all well and good.  Stasis is poor design because it's an anti-teamplay ability to its very core.

The easiest change would of course be to make it so that Stasis has no impact on allied gunfire.  At the moment, the wide CataStasis Limbo build is just a weaker and troll-tastic version of Bastille spec Vauban.  The frame that also can halt all enemies, but lets allies all use their guns correctly, instead of being in the way and annoying.