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Limbo needs a change ASAP


Josel2696
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2 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

When did I ever insinuate that anyone's problems arn't real? No, I insinuated that those problems are created by yourself.
 

You are, literally, saying that the problems don't stem from Limbo, but from everyone else who has a problem with him.  Given that he is consistently being pointed out as a troll frame by MANY players, including many vets, I'd say the issues stem more from the frame.  You are free to disagree and continue claiming everyone else needs to just "git gud" though.
 

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You are wrong here. I am not taking this from a solo player standpoint. I play in public games all the time as limbo, and you know what? No-one has complained to me. Why? Because I use the abilities as intended. I toggle stasis when needed. I keep it on when needed. I banish people when needed. Limbo is a frame that requires the correct timing and positioning to make the best use of his abilities.
 

Bull.  Just bull.  People don't complain to you because it is easier to just finish the mission, in most cases, and block the player entirely.  Limbo is a cool frame with communication.  PuGs aren't going to have that in a majority of cases and, as such, Limbo becomes relegated to a troll frame for PuGs.  It doesn't matter if you are the one Limbo player who uses him correctly since and overwhelming number of Limbo players that aren't you use the frame to troll.  

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In nearly every game I've had people commending me for my Limbo play, and after seeing me ONCE freeze everything, 

Bullcorn.  Complete and utter drivel you've fabricated to bolster your argument.  

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Its players like you who give limbo players a bad name and almost force them into playing like they are Solo. Simply because a large number of people refuse to co-operate with someone simply because they like using Limbo, causes those Limbo players to play as if they were solo, or, try and troll everyone.

lmao.  I rarely run Limbo (used to run him only for Rescue sorties back when it mattered) so, no, I'm not the reason Limbo has a bad name.  Limbo has a bad name because, again, he is used by the overwhelming majority of his users to troll or act like a jerk.  That's, coincidentally, why he is also so frequently discussed here on the forums.  

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And FYI, I did not say, git gud. If I did, I would simply say, you're terribly and you need to be better. No, I asked you why you don't seem to have the insight to find each warframes potential, and to not act as if you're just a straight up better player than myself. 

No, you just heavily imply it, then continually brag about how great you are with Limbo and how everyone else who dislikes him just sucks at the game.  It's amazing the level of cognitive dissonance you have going.  As to me acting like I'm a better player than you, never even implied it bucko.  I'm pointing out the flaws in a frame you like and you are taking it personally.  You'll get over it.

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 I have studied and experimented with limbo, and accept the fact he can be USED as a troll frame, but overall, he isn't. He is not intended that way.

And you just assume no one else has ever used the frame, right?  No one else is as good as you are at using Limbo so, obviously, the frame doesn't need to change his trollish ways.  It doesn't matter how he was intended, the reality is his kit is designed around an ability to troll other players.  Period.  Intentions don't matter, just results.

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The issue here lies with the players behind the warframe, not the warframe itself.

The issue lies with the ability of the Frame to entirely halt every other players DPS/interactions until he decides it's time to let it go.  That's a complete farce of a kit.

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5 hours ago, Josel2696 said:

Limbo's habilities as of now are pretty powerful, and that's not my complain, I'm fine with warframes being overpowered in their specialties, BUT, you can't give a warframe control over what other players can or can't do/touch in the mission. 

Just imagine: You prepare to do sortie 3, mod your guns, your warframe and talk a strat with your friend in your party so it's a fun mission with a little bit of a challenge BUT GUESS @(*()$ WHAT LIMBO JOINS AND RUINS EVERYBODYS MISSION WITH HIS STUPID COMBO ULT+2. Now nobody can use their hard worked forma weapons, we are all restricted to melee or certain habilities that won't do S#&$ because it's a really high level mission. Well let's pick up drops then OH TOOO @(*()$ BAD YOU CAN'T BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS IN LIMBO'S STUPID RIFT.

I'm sure nobody in DE is stupid, they already knew the consequences of this rework but I can't comprehend why didn't they change them to something that doesn't give control over other players.

If nothing is gonna be done to fix this at least please, pretty please, give us a button to kick players out of parties or missions.

Thank you if you did read all of that.

 

Edit:

I am sorry for this post being so crude, not only on my english but also in my manners. I'm not blaming DE, I'm saying I don't underestand the choice of giving Limbo so much power over the mission and other players. And this kick that I'm requesting is not for people that just use Limbo is for people that troll like what I have experienced so far since his rework.

 

U complain too much there should never be a kick option the same people u claim that trolls with limbo gonna troll kick you if u don't want a mission that has a limbo in it simply solo or form your own party the limbo update does need a few small tweak yes like a review I just read that only limbo projectile will be frozen or what ever but here's what instead if *@##$ing about it give them valuable ideas that will work cause kick vote option will be the one of the big troll option even more so annoying than limbo himself who I know u don't see often in game.

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Why is it necessary to have the drawbacks and negative effects of the Rift be enforced on other players, due to mistakes or bad play from the Limbo player? Limbo's abilities by design are the cause of all the frustrations because they alone enable players' troll capabilities to skyrocket. Take away that annoying aspect of his abilities and we can all play nice, instead of going around in circles blaming it on players who we or DE have no control over.

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19 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Why is it necessary to have the drawbacks and negative effects of the Rift be enforced on other players, due to mistakes or bad play from the Limbo player? Limbo's abilities by design are the cause of all the frustrations because they alone enable players' troll capabilities to skyrocket. Take away that annoying aspect of his abilities and we can all play nice, instead of going around in circles blaming it on players who we or DE have no control over.

What are those annoying aspects of his abilities you mention ? do you have any suggestions how they could fix those problems whithout taking the whole other place of existence /rift "master" theme away ?

I for example have also some issuses with limbo (even thought i play limbo alot, some things are just trolling, most of the time sadly without intentional doing so just not thinking about the effect it has for the teammates)

Rift (Mechanic) -> not able to interact with consoles or hacks and so on while inside rift --> enables limbo to "troll" 

 Fix : simple fix it(there are already demension ingoring traps, so cant be that hard to had those interactions) !!

2nd Rift (Mechanic): teammates not being able to attack enemies inside rift (besides abilities---> only works for high dps caster/ability heavy frames well)

Fix : Let channeling hit banished/ riftbound targets (drains energy from the warframe so it wouldnt be a to far fetched idea)

Stasis: people who cry about this are just *beep*, at best its an inconvience --> problem is not stasis but the range of Cataclysm + duration of catalcysm and stasis making it uneccesary hard to stay outside of the stasis/projcetile stopped area

Fix : decrease range from cataclysm (therfore no or slower declining range over time), decrease stasis cooldowm by a huge margin or making it toggleable (each enemy affected costs more energy --> so you want to kill the targets affects by stasis since it lowers the energy drain.

Stasis 2nd problem/bug: Hitscan/ contious beam weapons dont hit/deal dmg when used in the rift while stasis is in effect, even after stasis is deactivtaed.

Fix: Again just fix it --> problem came after the additonal range on hitscan and contious beam weapons while under stasis effect hotfix.

Riftsurge: Many Problems !!

While it works probably was inented to be used in combination with banish (also kinda a problem since super huge range, 90m without any need for line of sight) banish, riftdash, riftsurge, banish, enableing to banish while staying inside the rift using the radial banish from riftsurge upon leaving rift. ---> take enourmus amount of effort and time, while it creates same effect as casting 4 once

4-3-4 combo enabling to banish whole roooms without any means for teammates to deal dmg since no cataclysm is up.

Fix: either: 1 suggestion: less range on banish and cataclysm,

2: suggestion (more a whole rework): change banish ,examples: singletarget, small cone, only able to be cast on enemies outside of the rift (casting banish on enemies inside the rift radial/ cone area (what ever fits better) banishes  the enmies around the target

additional change riftsurge either buff for team --> loading teamates/weapons up with riftenergy to enable interdimensional dmg (less if other dimensions (augment would counter that dmg reduction as you get more dmg and just be a buff (additional dmg for players inside the rift).This wouldnt enable players inside the rift to shoot targets outside the rift. Cast/ Ability would work like rhino buff.

Or make it a debuff that effects the enmies (as it is now) that enables them to take dmg from both dimensions  disregading the dimension the player is in. Ability would work as it does now: only enemies inside the rift in a set distance around limbo are effectd, for ne enemies entering the  rift it has to be recast --> Basically means you cant really deal dmg to enemies in the normal plane of existence but other way around. But since Riftsurge as of now jumps to a target nearby (doesnt have to be inside the rift (bug ? no probleme make it a feature) you are able to kill those targets while inside the rift

Example: Cataclysm, Riftsurge, as you kill the enemies affected by riftsurge it jumps to enmies outside the rift which enables you to shoot them while staying inside cataclysm.

 

I believe these would more or less fix all existent problems with limbo, without pushing him away from the rift theme/mechanic.  

This is all based upon my opinions and thought about limbo, if you think it wouldnt resolve limbos problem or push him too much away from the playstyle and theme he offers now pls feel free to say so. I would appriciate it thought if its not just "limbo sucks, troll champ" or the "limbo is fine, no problem with him whatsoever with his kit" comment as its not constructive and already stated by probably 10 different people inside this thread :)

Also sry for my bad english, as it is not my first language. I hope it is still understandable.

 

Edited by BloodyEy3
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40 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Had 2 Limbos in sortie 3 today with Sargus Ruk, was forced to quit after what felt like 10 minutes. I had no clue what was happening and no one including the 2 Limbos was doing any damage. Limbo needs to change.

Thats just a problem with limbo / rift interactions if there are more then 1 source (more then 1 limbo) inside the team.

As far as i could conduct, each limbo somehow casts their own but also the other limbo affecting spell.

Stasis: 2 layers of stasis up, both have to recast stasis for the effect to cancel, since if only 1 deactives it, 1 is still in effect)

Riftsurge: dont know if its fixed, but some patches (shortly after limbo rework) it bugged the game if both limbos casted 4,3,4 making some enemies invunerable (didnt take dmg inside the rift, didnt take dmg outside the rift)

Cataclysm: Havent tested this again, but some time ago (around the catacylsm spamm time) it was like this: if you have 2 cataclysm same size, same area, both would get detroyed upon recasting cataclysm by either of the limbos, if someone goes - range and a other + range and you cast both cataclysm in the same are, it doesnt matter if the limbo with the smaller cataclysm recasts cataclysm since it only affects his own, if the limbo with the bigger cataclysm range recasts it, it destroys also the smaller cataclysm inside the bigger one.

Havent seen to many missions with multiple limbos, since most stopped playing him after his nuke was nerfed... so some problems might have been fixed already (i am pretty sure of the stasis interaction thought, like 99%)

 

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Melee ia stronger in really high levels then guns are ever since crit combo/slash status builds got floodet with A++ mods but ok. Especially as stasis, in contrary to any other stunlock Cc actually allows status.

 

Carrying a propper melee can't be that hard, can it 🙄 I mean a good limbo even frickin buffs it for you. A++ damage, buffed by a strong multiplier. On completely stunlocked enemys. Let that sink in for a second and tell me how that's a bad thing...

 

There's a lot...like a whole lot of abilitys that may f*** with your strategy in random runs, starting from overshields up to similar Cc which ruins your status too (had this w10 augumented armor sortie once where this frickin frost just wouldn't stop avalancing enemys. Neather corrusion nor slash worked. It was a horrible drag.)

Limbo is the one most rewarding frame outa the bunch that requires the least preperation. This rant needs to stop.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Carrying a propper melee can't be that hard, can it 🙄 I mean a good limbo even frickin buffs it for you. A++ damage, buffed by a strong multiplier. On completely stunlocked enemys. Let that sink in for a second and tell me how that's a bad thing...

Because we maybe aren't playing Warframe to play Tree Chopping Simulator 2k17 ?

Of course Limbo had to be changed. This Stasis is maybe the worst gameplay idea in the last 20 years, but unfortunately... It had to be changed right after it was implemented. DE won't change it now, they're probably working on something else.

So, we just have to deal with it. My number of aborted missions is going up since this rework, as I leave as soon as a Limbo starts preventing me to play. I learned the first week of this abomination that Limbos are not caring when you ask them to stop, so now I'm just leaving. Sometimes I don't even wait for them to do something annoying, I check the squad comp and leave if I see one.

His Surge is also very annoying and completely buggy. I tried to do the Grineer Interception in Sortie a few days ago, and it was nearly impossible to re-cap points because there were invincible enemies everywhere. You can't hit them even if you're in the rift (and I wasn't playing a Rift-transcending Warframe this time). Had to leave on Round 2. It was a completely boring Limbo anyway, Cataclysming/Stasising his node and literally AFKing inside of it for the full rounds.

Edited by Chewarette
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On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:40 PM, Music4Therapy said:

...I have similar issues with Frost players that don't remove their globes or spam avalanche  (avalanche makes enemies immune to status effects while frozen)

Buddy wooot? That's not true at all...if something happens then it INCREASES the ticks of EACH TICKING PROC. And therfore the damage.

46+++++++ Slash ticks from one slash proc? When freezing the dmg of each proc starts to scale up? Yaaaa Frost can do it...

Cold procs can do it... Nova Slow/Nekros Aug Slow....any proc or ability that "alters the movment" of a target, can also alter the status duration of an ticking proc !!

There is actually a "Effective status duration", where the "movement slowing % in decimal" is within the calculation,... buddy frosts freez/slow is a great dmg multiplicator for frames which do AoE Proc's with weapons or abilities like from Saryn/Mag/...

Freezing gives also a awesome HS aiming (not moving targets),..which again is FINALY great for Sniper weapons... easy hits.

Why is using a Slash procing melee weapon so good to use on Frost?

---------------

Differents from Frost's freez, to TrollLord's Rift is...,

Frost's AoE freez is a "Hard CC", any player in team can hit targets with any source of power that creates damage, from any spot they want to at any given time. 

TradeOff for Hard CC: Enemies are stopping to hit/shot/using abilities but do not walk to team anymore. Team now needs to walk to enemies. Its a Hard CC. While "TrollLord Hard CCs his own team."

Freezing a large Area is actualy the better 'icy rift'. While offering also dmg multis and armor striping in a faster rate then normal while also increasing procing ticks duration... Counting for melee/guns AND abilities at any given time for the hole duration.

I know its ur opinion. It is your good right to have it and choose what ya like and what not. But the reason u told here why you do not like frost is wrong buddy.

I guess you just do not like the fact that no targets move anymore. I could understand this. But procs do run...and boy...they ruuun and ruuun and ruuuun 😉

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11 hours ago, P0Pz said:

Buddy wooot? That's not true at all...if something happens then it INCREASES the ticks of EACH TICKING PROC. And therfore the damage.

46+++++++ Slash ticks from one slash proc? When freezing the dmg of each proc starts to scale up? Yaaaa Frost can do it...

Cold procs can do it... Nova Slow/Nekros Aug Slow....any proc or ability that "alters the movment" of a target, can also alter the status duration of an ticking proc !!

There is actually a "Effective status duration", where the "movement slowing % in decimal" is within the calculation,... buddy frosts freez/slow is a great dmg multiplicator for frames which do AoE Proc's with weapons or abilities like from Saryn/Mag/...

Freezing gives also a awesome HS aiming (not moving targets),..which again is FINALY great for Sniper weapons... easy hits.

Why is using a Slash procing melee weapon so good to use on Frost?

---------------

Differents from Frost's freez, to TrollLord's Rift is...,

Frost's AoE freez is a "Hard CC", any player in team can hit targets with any source of power that creates damage, from any spot they want to at any given time. 

TradeOff for Hard CC: Enemies are stopping to hit/shot/using abilities but do not walk to team anymore. Team now needs to walk to enemies. Its a Hard CC. While "TrollLord Hard CCs his own team."

Freezing a large Area is actualy the better 'icy rift'. While offering also dmg multis and armor striping in a faster rate then normal while also increasing procing ticks duration... Counting for melee/guns AND abilities at any given time for the hole duration.

I know its ur opinion. It is your good right to have it and choose what ya like and what not. But the reason u told here why you do not like frost is wrong buddy.

I guess you just do not like the fact that no targets move anymore. I could understand this. But procs do run...and boy...they ruuun and ruuun and ruuuun 😉

I was already aware of all this, and none of what you said changes the fact that once an enemy is frozen by Avalanche you can no longer place any more statuses on them, though pre-existing statuses do stick.

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As i post in all these limbo threads.. hes literally the only frame since his release who can stop allys shooting things. Not even vauban trolls with thier bouncepads are this bad. At worst compared they're a minor inconvenience. Atlas used to be able to troll allies with his wall. De fixxed that immediately. Why hasnt limbo gotten the same

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I'm as stalwart an opponent of Stasis as it gets.  Unfortunately, we don't seem to be hearing much from DE about this very often repeated, very widely hated change made to Limbo.  I would really like to hear what they at least think of this.  Give us at least some idea of whether this is permanent.  That's going to be a decisive factor in how many players choose to respond to this problem.

And make no mistake, it's a problem.  It's a serious one.  From a community interaction perspective, the level of toxicity on both sides of the argument is high.  Limbos are asserting that they have a right to use their abilities - and I get this, to an extent.  You wouldn't bring a Nova and then never touch any abilities, or an Ivara, or a Rhino - or any frame.  The varying differences in 'tankyness', e.g. raw survivability stats, all play a part but ultimately the character and utility of the frame are defined by the abilities.  On the other side you have a wide variety of players who are asserting that Limbo's ability use  - his Stasis in particular - is interfering or outright stopping their gameplay.  It can interfere with other frames' abilities (a recurring problem I have is with charging antimatter drops when Limbo decides it's time for everyone to go melee only).  And of course, the hated stopping of our guns, bows, etc. from working.

We've all seen how this has affected the feedback forums.  New threads almost every day.  Some raging against how ridiculous Limbo makes missions, others helpfully suggesting changes that would make Limbo a team player rather than a nuisance and a tool used for griefing.  And we've all seen these threads devolve, too.  Into this.  Vague ad hominems on each other.  Thinly veiled or 'special charactered' out swear words.  And it's the same argument, every time.  'We wanna use our weapons' say players.  'Too bad' say Limbos.  'This is making us angry' say players.  'It's helping' say Limbos.  That's what it boils down to.  Rinse, wash, repeat.  And as the argument stalls, it leads players to form a number of conclusions on either side.

Some of the Limbos make claims, mostly of the sort that can't really be substantiated, that they're judicious in the use of their abilities.  It's never immediately apparent if they're telling the truth.  However, the evidence - namely that these issue keeps coming up, everywhere, from the forums to offsite communities, to region chat, to varying discords, and everywhere in between - suggests that either most of them are being outright dishonest.  That this claim is the talk, but that the actual behavior we keep raising in these threads is the walk.  The only people who seem to be making claims that these 'good limbos' exist are actually... limbo players.  We rarely hear of this happening from anyone else.

And the people that are reacting to Limbo behavior?  We tend to go into four camps.  One, we just play everything solo or in strictly organized squads.  That's great if you've got a massive pile of highly forma'd gear, you're capable of solo'ing sorties and willing to go through the trouble of farming prime gear for ducats.  If you've got a solid group of friends you can play with, that's on when you're on.  That wants to do what you want to do.  Circle the wagons, shut out the problem through proactive avoidance.  Then you have people who play pugs anyway, but they keep a wary eye on the loadouts of their squadmates.  If a Limbo appears, they simply quit.  Depending on what the mission is - level, enemy faction, mission type - and their own gear and how well it's developed, they may solo it.  They may just simply find another pug group, with the hope that the next group won't contain a Limbo.  Maybe they'll take to recruiting and get a squad together, explicitly advertising that Limbos are not permitted.  This is more of a reactive avoidant approach to the problem.

Then you have players who accept that they may run into a Limbo.  They plan their loadout accordingly, including a Pox or Staticor as their secondary.  Maybe taking Supra Vandal as primary.  They try to adjust their loadout in such a way that if the problem occurs during the mission - a Limbo shows up - they have the tools at their disposal to neutralize the threat through overwhelming stasis with projectiles.  This is an adaptive, adversarial response, not unlike planning our loadouts to handle Sortie conditions or bosses.  You know, threats.  Things that make things harder.  Not easier.  And then you have people who just divest themselves from it, mentally.  Let the Limbo do his thing.  Nothing for them to do, might as well go brush their teeth, long as they get their reward, who cares.  This isn't acceptance, this is resignation.  This is a common result among newer players who are bullied by limbo griefers when they ask the Limbo to stop.  They lack the social connections and the weapons/hardware to solo everything or only play with friends - what choice do they have?

It seems that all four major response classes have one thing in common: an implicit understanding that the Limbo is a problem,  Viewing it terms of cause and effect like this easily clears up the misconception that Limbo is 'helping'.  It pulverizes the weak lie that these Limbo players are trying to 'play nicely' and to be unobtrusive.  None of the responses that we see - and we can clearly see it, there are many threads about it - would make any sense if the Limbo was actually perceived as helpful.  If the behavior that actually occurs matched the statements of Limbo's defenders.  Perception is everything.  Say somehow I gain my neighbor's keys and lock him out of his house, and tell him I'm helping him, anyone can clearly see that I'm not helping him at all.  I can make huge amounts of excuses.  Blow enormous amounts of hot air.  Ultimately all I'm doing is justifying my own forced imposition of my will onto someone else, whether they like it or not.  It is morally indefensible.  My neighbor would probably see it as an act of aggression, of messing with him.  Limbo locking up all our weapons is exactly that - and in the context of a cooperative video game it falls directly into the category of griefing and trolling.  The excuses made in the aftermath in defense of this behavior are outright, blatant lies.  Talk the talk, walk the walk.  So with that metaphor in mind - who gave me the keys to my neighbor's house?

That's why I want to hear from DE about this.  I am not going to listen to any more liars spewing their garbage about how they're 'helping'.  You're not, and you know that.  These laughable anecdotes about Limbos saving a mission from certain failure with Stasis - give me a break.  You've said your piece.  Nothing you say jives with reality.  Your own behavior consistently and overwhelmingly contradicts your claims, it's all meaningless talk.  I want to hear from DE.  I want them to give some signal, whatever that may be, of acknowledgement - and whether they admit a certainly level of culpability in this or not.  I would understand and accept whatever answer that might be - why?  And what now?  And make my decisions about how to personally handle the limbo menace from there.

Edited by dopey_opi
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2 hours ago, dopey_opi said:

I'm as stalwart an opponent of Stasis as it gets.  Unfortunately, we don't seem to be hearing much from DE about this very often repeated, very widely hated change made to Limbo.  I would really like to hear what they at least think of this.  Give us at least some idea of whether this is permanent.  That's going to be a decisive factor in how many players choose to respond to this problem.

And make no mistake, it's a problem.  It's a serious one.  From a community interaction perspective, the level of toxicity on both sides of the argument is high.  Limbos are asserting that they have a right to use their abilities - and I get this, to an extent.  You wouldn't bring a Nova and then never touch any abilities, or an Ivara, or a Rhino - or any frame.  The varying differences in 'tankyness', e.g. raw survivability stats, all play a part but ultimately the character and utility of the frame are defined by the abilities.  On the other side you have a wide variety of players who are asserting that Limbo's ability use  - his Stasis in particular - is interfering or outright stopping their gameplay.  It can interfere with other frames' abilities (a recurring problem I have is with charging antimatter drops when Limbo decides it's time for everyone to go melee only).  And of course, the hated stopping of our guns, bows, etc. from working.

We've all seen how this has affected the feedback forums.  New threads almost every day.  Some raging against how ridiculous Limbo makes missions, others helpfully suggesting changes that would make Limbo a team player rather than a nuisance and a tool used for griefing.  And we've all seen these threads devolve, too.  Into this.  Vague ad hominems on each other.  Thinly veiled or 'special charactered' out swear words.  And it's the same argument, every time.  'We wanna use our weapons' say players.  'Too bad' say Limbos.  'This is making us angry' say players.  'It's helping' say Limbos.  That's what it boils down to.  Rinse, wash, repeat.  And as the argument stalls, it leads players to form a number of conclusions on either side.

Some of the Limbos make claims, mostly of the sort that can't really be substantiated, that they're judicious in the use of their abilities.  It's never immediately apparent if they're telling the truth.  However, the evidence - namely that these issue keeps coming up, everywhere, from the forums to offsite communities, to region chat, to varying discords, and everywhere in between - suggests that either most of them are being outright dishonest.  That this claim is the talk, but that the actual behavior we keep raising in these threads is the walk.  The only people who seem to be making claims that these 'good limbos' exist are actually... limbo players.  We rarely hear of this happening from anyone else.

And the people that are reacting to Limbo behavior?  We tend to go into four camps.  One, we just play everything solo or in strictly organized squads.  That's great if you've got a massive pile of highly forma'd gear, you're capable of solo'ing sorties and willing to go through the trouble of farming prime gear for ducats.  If you've got a solid group of friends you can play with, that's on when you're on.  That wants to do what you want to do.  Circle the wagons, shut out the problem through proactive avoidance.  Then you have people who play pugs anyway, but they keep a wary eye on the loadouts of their squadmates.  If a Limbo appears, they simply quit.  Depending on what the mission is - level, enemy faction, mission type - and their own gear and how well it's developed, they may solo it.  They may just simply find another pug group, with the hope that the next group won't contain a Limbo.  Maybe they'll take to recruiting and get a squad together, explicitly advertising that Limbos are not permitted.  This is more of a reactive avoidant approach to the problem.

Then you have players who accept that they may run into a Limbo.  They plan their loadout accordingly, including a Pox or Staticor as their secondary.  Maybe taking Supra Vandal as primary.  They try to adjust their loadout in such a way that if the problem occurs during the mission - a Limbo shows up - they have the tools at their disposal to neutralize the threat through overwhelming stasis with projectiles.  This is an adaptive, adversarial response, not unlike planning our loadouts to handle Sortie conditions or bosses.  You know, threats.  Things that make things harder.  Not easier.  And then you have people who just divest themselves from it, mentally.  Let the Limbo do his thing.  Nothing for them to do, might as well go brush their teeth, long as they get their reward, who cares.  This isn't acceptance, this is resignation.  This is a common result among newer players who are bullied by limbo griefers when they ask the Limbo to stop.  They lack the social connections and the weapons/hardware to solo everything or only play with friends - what choice do they have?

It seems that all four major response classes have one thing in common: an implicit understanding that the Limbo is a problem,  Viewing it terms of cause and effect like this easily clears up the misconception that Limbo is 'helping'.  It pulverizes the weak lie that these Limbo players are trying to 'play nicely' and to be unobtrusive.  None of the responses that we see - and we can clearly see it, there are many threads about it - would make any sense if the Limbo was actually perceived as helpful.  If the behavior that actually occurs matched the statements of Limbo's defenders.  Perception is everything.  Say somehow I gain my neighbor's keys and lock him out of his house, and tell him I'm helping him, anyone can clearly see that I'm not helping him at all.  I can make huge amounts of excuses.  Blow enormous amounts of hot air.  Ultimately all I'm doing is justifying my own forced imposition of my will onto someone else, whether they like it or not.  It is morally indefensible.  My neighbor would probably see it as an act of aggression, of messing with him.  Limbo locking up all our weapons is exactly that - and in the context of a cooperative video game it falls directly into the category of griefing and trolling.  The excuses made in the aftermath in defense of this behavior are outright, blatant lies.  Talk the talk, walk the walk.  So with that metaphor in mind - who gave me the keys to my neighbor's house?

That's why I want to hear from DE about this.  I am not going to listen to any more liars spewing their garbage about how they're 'helping'.  You're not, and you know that.  These laughable anecdotes about Limbos saving a mission from certain failure with Stasis - give me a break.  You've said your piece.  Nothing you say jives with reality.  Your own behavior consistently and overwhelmingly contradicts your claims, it's all meaningless talk.  I want to hear from DE.  I want them to give some signal, whatever that may be, of acknowledgement - and whether they admit a certainly level of culpability in this or not.  I would understand and accept whatever answer that might be - why?  And what now?  And make my decisions about how to personally handle the limbo menace from there.

pls !stop!crieng!

it feels like you take the whole limbo restricting your gameplay thing WAAY to serious and  personal.

You basically ask DE for a justification on how they could do such a horrendous act as to restrict you (a random player) in the gameplay of their game. And if they are it they probably should throw an apology directed towards you, so that you can sleep better at night. 

I mean while limbo has problems.... i main limbo and commented on every possible limbo change/ limbo problems thread those last weeks and it seems the people who complain most of the time are narrowminded as hell. All they do is cry about stasis... just stasis.. the goddamn aoe cc that only downsight is stopping projectiles.

Could you please try to think about the whole situation.. that maybe a 45m cataclysm for 60sec with stasis under effect is the problem not stasis itself. That Limbo can nearly sabotage any mission or part of a playable content that uses object interaction ?. And how the hell are people crieing about not being able to use primary or secondary... if with banish or 4,3,4 not even melee is an option and thats even on a much bigger area since 3 adds 15m radial banish to the max range range cataclysm.

And please how can you say limbo and even limbo players or trolling, having bad intentions, when you literarly state 2 out of the 4 groups outside the limbo player base that are are as bad as limbo is descriped... just that they are not playing limbo but their behavior is atlast as bad... and i can say most of the limbo is not intentional doing it or even more so has to do it since he insta dies in any mission over lvl 40... with qt you just stagger urself to death.

I mean you are the sort of people that should be ingored by DE, your comment has little to no value, you ask DE for a justification and while you are at it you dont even try to give any possible constructive and helpful information or ideas for DE

The information you state is: Limbo Stasis restrics me, thats toxic gameplay.

 Look De like 100 different people have commented on those threads and 50people are haters and 50 people are lovers. But the lovers are wrong and lie, we haters only state facts, so we are  right.

 DE tell me you #*($%%@ up with limbo and apologize to me so i can feel important (cause i am important)

 

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I agree that Limbo should not be able to affect the group in this negative way. Personally, when I see a Limbo in a the group, I leave! That's a drastic reaction, but it saves me the stress of dealing with a potential troll player or just being around those annoying abilities.

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33 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said:

the goddamn aoe cc that only downsight is stopping projectiles.

Yeah.  How dare other players want to be able to shoot at stuff and have their primary and secondary actually work.  What a far-fetched concept for us, as players, to adhere to.  /s

You literally summed up the problem and ignored that many Limbos use this ability to troll games or, possibly with good intentions but because of the mechanics it becomes a trolling move. As to your comment about people who quit missions or simply play solo being "As bad or worse than Limbo" no, not even remotely.  I do it because I don't want to spend the time explaining to you, or any other Limbo user, that your kit ruins the enjoyment of the game for myself and I am perfectly capable of succeeding without you.  

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Best way I found to play with limbo when there is no communication is to have a small range on his 4th so I can freeze specific parts of the battlefield so I can take care of the enemies safely. 

Thats exactly how limbo should be played... controlling parts of the battlefield not the whole battlefield... problem is that he has way to much base range, which makes range + duration just too efficient and good.

If you look at 4 there are just many possible problems giving from what side you look at the ability.

With its long duration, long casting animation and huge size its clearly meant to be stationary used ability, but warframe is not a stationary game atall.. everything is running jumping moving around (space ninjas ftw) but you chain urself to a limited area, with less range you restricte urself even more

There are niche playstyles of limbo that are more mobile

For example: i use low range 60% and 80% duration to open small "rift Pockets" around enemies or use it in chokepoints. i can use stasis and primary weapons in combo without anyone having to be forced to melee. and also do good dmg with the added powerstrnegh and riftsurge.

--> More or same playstyle possible with low range max duration build and using banish, then standing inside the rift, useing riftsurge and banish to spread the rift from inside the rift-- > not as mobile as with 4, since if all enemiey killed or u want to move to an other place you need to leave rift and banish again.

--> Same playstyle also useable with low range max duration build with cataclysm... only useable at lvl over 30 since cataclysm will oneshot most enemies below lvl 30... second problem is that it uses more energy and takes more time (or the need of natural talent and so on)

other playstyle concerning cataclysm (mainly useable for mobile defense/ defense) low range max duration --> extremly strong at completing the mission goal... makes the live for limbo really hard, since his survivabilty is 0 outside the rift and since his cataclysm is stationar used on the defense target he has to either use banish, which needs him to be in the same plane of existnece to do so or just manmode and probably accept the fate that you might as well go afk in the 1person cataclysm and hide there for the rest of the mission.

 

The biggest problem i have is, i know many possible playstyle and way to do sth with limbo since as a stated before i main limbo  and even tried to do many differnt things and playstyle. The problem given is that DE never really said what the promoted playstyle of limbo is... and the Promoted Devstream Limbo Rework video showcasts a more or less total diffenrent limbo.

While Limbos most used build and playstyle, since its the most efficient and arguable the strongst (atleast for grineer and infested missions) from all the others build and playstyle, it is also the most boring and most restriciting playstyle for limbo and his teammates.

So whats the direction DE wanted Limbo to be ? Is Limbos playstyle intended as it is atm ? 

Cause from my aspect Limbos rework kinda seems not refined at all... banish and cataclysm do basically the same thing.. but only that cataclysm does every single aspect of banish better... it can be cast while inside the rift, it is a huge radial area not a rectangle (with not changing width).

Faster (banish casting time not reduced with natural talent and you have to count 2 riftdashes (in and out), that everything that cataclysm does with just 4,4 in 1,5 sec or so without having the annoying moving factor from riftdash)

Deals more dmg... in every aspect. double dmg on cast, cataclysm edge dmg is nuts (thats the thing that deals most of the dmg in longrange cataclysm) and scaling dmg on collapse of cataclysm. 

Riftsurge main purpose is to give limbo the time to recast cataclysm without anyone being able to shoot limbo or the defense target or anything. and it creats a nice banish interactions.

Stasis: since limbo dies... just dies... to eveything even more so since he does not have any sorce of target selct but only aoe now... they needed to give him some sort of either cc or defensive buff. And since stasis is really fun to use solo or cool for some "magic" tricks its probably the way he his now (he literarly needed survivability since banish wasnt useable in rift anymore + aoe and sth new and cool to promote him, all other abilites stayed the same more or less) --> i mean i really like it.. if its used for limbo himself not for rift in general... 2limbos in 1 team... cataclysm stasis for self cc whole squad

and btw i tried to play limbo with every defensive mod max and qt, since some people say he has good survivability.. if you play without stasis and dont lifestrike rage qt gimmick you will find urself downed almost instantly at any lvl enemies above 50. so much for the survivabilty

Riftdash: Also a gmmick to promote new limbo... only useable if you are heading to the rescua target or on the way to extract... any riftdash combat movements are impossible... and abolsute frustrating to use (also no reason anyone ever uses banish)

thats the kit just as it is... explained probably worse as it is and exaggerated but it gets to the point.

It feels like they wanted to make a rework but werent brave enough to go the full length... so they only gone halfway, maybe even less (1 didnt get changed at all besides dmg interaction (cataclysm), 1 got worse in every aspect (banish), to compensate that they added a nice and "interactive" part on the pure buff ability (riftsurge) and since they needed sth to promote , make him look fun/ more fun they added 2 gimmicks... both resolving around the reworked 2 as its old ability was pushed on roll and new ability gave him the surviabilty he needed and also give him more interactive abiliies (didnt think the projectile thing through... even shortly after the dev stream with the limbo rework, many warframe partnered streamers acutally mention that this might bring up huge problems inside the community if they bring that 1/1 into the game... they did bring it 1/1 into the game and it made huge problems)

And that all without actually fixing any major rift problems (hey you can carry mobile defensive and excavtor thingies inside the rift now, and can pick up loot (only in catalcysm not if banished or limbo rift dashes)... all the other old inability to interact with objects problems for which limbo was hated mainly before the rework stay as they were.

i am done ranting now... i mean do like rework limbo... doing the best to make limbo fun for myself.. and he is fun for me the way i play him.

Like i said biggest problem with limbo is that he can adapt to many playstyles, the best and most effecient is range + duration and since DE didnt tweak numbers aside from cataclysm dmg, it was probably to be exactly this. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Yeah.  How dare other players want to be able to shoot at stuff and have their primary and secondary actually work.  What a far-fetched concept for us, as players, to adhere to.  /s

You literally summed up the problem and ignored that many Limbos use this ability to troll games or, possibly with good intentions but because of the mechanics it becomes a trolling move. As to your comment about people who quit missions or simply play solo being "As bad or worse than Limbo" no, not even remotely.  I do it because I don't want to spend the time explaining to you, or any other Limbo user, that your kit ruins the enjoyment of the game for myself and I am perfectly capable of succeeding without you.  

 And what, why or how are the people who say "dont cry about resonanting quake banshe, saryn, ember, frost" or many other instantly clearing maps of enemies not restrict me in my playstyle... the arguemnts you can read are either "get gud, multforma ur builds min max everything and start the who can kill most race" or "go in high lvl mission"... Thats restrictiing me the same way probably even more the then "use melee" part from limbo.

Thats acutally even by far worse then limbo.. since what do u want to do ? go look for a spwan place and try to kill those enemies who spawn before the resonating quake banshee can kill them ?

Not every people enjoys high lvl missions.. the only poeple who do are minmaxed veterans who cheese every possible bit out of the game "loki prime" most versatile and probably simple strongest warframe (newst compition octavia) can be used for any content and any playstyle, or rhino prime... you wont see any not prime... since the players who enjoy this gameplay and style have 2000h at the very least into the game (that probably 1% of the playerbase)

The main playerbase sits in lvl 20-40.. since after lvl 40 most warframe abilities or even weapons stop oneshotting everything if its not mult formad or happen to be the meta weapon. 

so i get the option to go afk and not see 1 single enemiy, maybe collect loot after each round or leave the mission... 

Its just an example, that those statements are mainly biased without any major and/or reasonable point... and its just that biased, like evey opinion... and both sides probably dont want to accept.

And by the way... how can everyone use Everyone, All and such statements... if all and everyone would think its a problem we would have those limbo changes already happen (literarly everyone had a problem with nuke limbo... instantly changed) It just happens that those that feel the need to talk about this topic, are either super triggered by limbo (stasis) and probably hated limbo even before rework, or those that play limbo... and like limbo.

While i do like limbo i try to be as reasonable as possible when talking about this topic... i know possible problems, state why and how they are problems.. or maybe not problems as well, give ideas what can be changes, needs to be changed and so... 

But Somehow the only thing i read over and over again from most People who clearly representing the limbo hating faction, are total biased statements, that literarly can be summerized as "limbo is in a bad spot atm, to many options/ possible way to handicap the team" thats reasonable and understandable... 

The part saying "we are such poor beings.. we are left with no other option then intentional troll the limbo back, rant about it on forums, or leave the game" is just simply not needed, not helpful and neither constructiv, so basically its just ranting and crieng out loud.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

I do it because I don't want to spend the time explaining to you, or any other Limbo user, that your kit ruins the enjoyment of the game for myself and I am perfectly capable of succeeding without you.  

So pls  explain to me, why you dont just play with clanmates, friends, or even recruit ur squad if you dont want to spend the time to "communicate with squadmembers"

Or if u are perfetcly capable of succeeding without "limbo" then go solo? whats the problem ? since you dont seem to communicate with ur team anyway since its an annoyce for you to do so and you are capable of playing solo just do so... if you want farm or exp runs who cares about stasis... who cares about resonating quake... u are just there for exp and for ressource or long runs you should use recuit channel, clanchat or friends only to create ur squad anyway.

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ? I dont see it... atleast not as a big end of the world as some of you state it.

Edited by BloodyEy3
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The problem no one thinks about when they ask for a Vote to Kick function (as well as desiring that those being kick do not get rewarded, be it Prime parts, Kuva, Relics, etc) is this:

*A Squad of 3 guys go around to popular Nodes, keeping Public setting on so a random 4th joins in*

*Later in the mission...*


#1: "Alright guys, mission's almost over. Y'all ready?"
#2: "Ready man."
#3: "Ready!"

#1: "Alright....I'm gonna initiate the vote...annnd....Vote to Kick! Vote to Kick!"
#2: "Voting!"

#3: "Voting, yo!"

 

*Random 4th has been kicked from Endless Fissure mission, after staying for 4 rounds*

#2: "Ahaaahaahaa! Yeeees!!!"

#1: "Whoooooo!!!"

#3: "Bro, he's gonna be soooo F-ing P*ssed, yo!! Ha ha haaaa!!!"

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26 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said:

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ? I dont see it... atleast not as a big end of the world as some of you state it.

I normally enjoy playing with randoms and I don't wish to waste time recruiting. MR23, been there, done that, solo holds little appeal for me now. None of the frames you listed prevent me from charging Antimatter Drop. Sound Quake is boring as heck certainly, I don't understand why some build soley for that on an otherwise fun frame, but at least I can still beat up staggered enemies until the next extraction.

No other frame or play style really bothers me, only Limbo and brightly colored Zenistar disks drain my will to play. It's definitely not the end of the world, I can abort until I get a Limbo free group, but I'd like to hope DE can recognize the problem they created and address it in a timely fashion. If not Monster Hunter World is just around the corner.

I've seen one really helpful Limbo on a Kela sortie, but all other Limbo players I've encountered here have made a mess of things. Kela is also the ideal pug Limbo mission as everyone except the Limbo du jour understands what Limbo *should* be doing at any given moment without needed to communicate. On some random defense figuring out what Limbo will let you do is confusing and annoying, it's not helping me and it's just not worth the headache. 

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I was never really into limbo but after his change I'm really liking him. it's of course Very obvious that numerous people including myself sometimes are annoyed when people run limbo in missions when he either shouldn't be or using hem incorrectly. I try to only use him in Grenier and infested missions understand that basically nothing can go wrong because corpuz nullifiers equals trouble. Regarding missions it's Mobile Defense mainly interception and excavation .there's always going to be the scenario that someone brought a Ember and they wanted to kill or someone bought a banshee and they wanted to quake. I been  in there shoes they almost feel  useles. Coming  back to why I use  him, his  rework has made him a new Warframe to most and he is beneficial to a team as long as your team is not annoyed by you.

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Whenever I play with a Limbo I always wish that he'd use stasis. Just shoot everything.

 

The only suggestion I'd make is to put a deathmark on stasis'd enemies that says whether or not it dies after the stasis, so that I'd know how much rounds needed to kill.

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Stasis needs to be changed so that allied projectiles don't freeze because of one simple problem that makes it annoying for both the limbo user and the allies: Certain weapons fill up stasis near instantly

I don't know every exact weapon but most beam weapons fill up the 300 projectile limit extremely fast and it ends the stasis which means it needs to be recast over and over again, so not only is it not fun for allies who just want to shoot people but limbo because allies constantly break his stasis. I would say the 2 changes that limbo need are to just allow allied projectiles to move in stasis and for nullifier bubbles to not instantly destroy his cataclysm since most people use range mods to try and capture as many people as possible in the stasis lock, resulting in often not even knowing where the nullifier is.

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12 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

pls !stop!crieng!

it feels like you take the whole limbo restricting your gameplay thing WAAY to serious and  personal.

You basically ask DE for a justification on how they could do such a horrendous act as to restrict you (a random player) in the gameplay of their game. And if they are it they probably should throw an apology directed towards you, so that you can sleep better at night. 

I mean while limbo has problems.... i main limbo and commented on every possible limbo change/ limbo problems thread those last weeks and it seems the people who complain most of the time are narrowminded as hell. All they do is cry about stasis... just stasis.. the goddamn aoe cc that only downsight is stopping projectiles.

Could you please try to think about the whole situation.. that maybe a 45m cataclysm for 60sec with stasis under effect is the problem not stasis itself. That Limbo can nearly sabotage any mission or part of a playable content that uses object interaction ?. And how the hell are people crieing about not being able to use primary or secondary... if with banish or 4,3,4 not even melee is an option and thats even on a much bigger area since 3 adds 15m radial banish to the max range range cataclysm.

And please how can you say limbo and even limbo players or trolling, having bad intentions, when you literarly state 2 out of the 4 groups outside the limbo player base that are are as bad as limbo is descriped... just that they are not playing limbo but their behavior is atlast as bad... and i can say most of the limbo is not intentional doing it or even more so has to do it since he insta dies in any mission over lvl 40... with qt you just stagger urself to death.

I mean you are the sort of people that should be ingored by DE, your comment has little to no value, you ask DE for a justification and while you are at it you dont even try to give any possible constructive and helpful information or ideas for DE

The information you state is: Limbo Stasis restrics me, thats toxic gameplay.

 Look De like 100 different people have commented on those threads and 50people are haters and 50 people are lovers. But the lovers are wrong and lie, we haters only state facts, so we are  right.

 DE tell me you #*($%%@ up with limbo and apologize to me so i can feel important (cause i am important)

 

It's very clear you didn't actually read my comment.

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