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Frost armor stripping buff? Weaker than Oberon's


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58 minutes ago, (Xbox One)YouBitePi11ows said:

Not sure what your complaining about... Frost is fine as is. So he can't Strip 100% Armor, how many other WFs can't either. If you want 100% Armor strip use the Pox with corrosive and blast... boom any warframe now magicly has a very effective & easy way to strip all Armor.

Just wrote that Corrosive Projection isn't good as it sounds with Frost Avalanche.
I'm enjoying playing frost for now, Condition Overload with Ice Wave impedance is making a great work.
But Frost Avalanche have it's big advantage, Frozen enemies don't get any status effects, that's a really bad for Condition Overload and many other weapons like pox. So better Armor stripping would be great, because you do almost nothing to heavy armored units if your Power Strength isn't high enough to strip their armor while status don't work on them.

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2 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Just wrote that Corrosive Projection isn't good as it sounds with Frost Avalanche.
I'm enjoying playing frost for now, Condition Overload with Ice Wave impedance is making a great work.
But Frost Avalanche have it's big advantage, Frozen enemies don't get any status effects, that's a really bad for Condition Overload and many other weapons like pox. So better Armor stripping would be great, because you do almost nothing to heavy armored units if your Power Strength isn't high enough to strip their armor while status don't work on them.

If it's such a problem why not have 2 people (you and a buddy) run Corrosive Projection? Again Frost is fine as is he's a support/CC machine not a relevant debuffer. Debuffing has never been his role, it's his CC and Bubble that makes him worthwhile, play to his strengths, don't complain about what rolls he doesn't do as well as others and instead try to complete team composition which is far more important than you wanting Frost to do everything.

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Frost's gimmick isn't armor strip. It's snow globe. He has much greater defensive capabilities, and using those abilities doesn't require very much skill. Oberon's defensive ability is nice, but energy hungry, falls off earlier, and unweildy if you plan on keeping friendlies buffed in a nullifier-rich atmosphere. 

tl;dr: oh look. Frost does a thing that most other warframes can't do, but isn't the best at doing it. Oh no.

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On 6/15/2017 at 5:59 AM, IfritKajiTora said:

Should Frost get buff with armor stripping? Because it's a lot weaker compared to Oberon's stripping. You can even cast it two times to strip full armor with 50% armor reduction without any timers, while Frost  only last for the duration of Avalanche.

Oberon cant hold enemies still

Oberon cant project a 1 sided shield bubble with a chance to hold enemies still

Oberon cant slow waves of enemies at 1 time

 

Frost doesnt need more things

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6 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Just wrote that Corrosive Projection isn't good as it sounds with Frost Avalanche.
I'm enjoying playing frost for now, Condition Overload with Ice Wave impedance is making a great work.
But Frost Avalanche have it's big advantage, Frozen enemies don't get any status effects, that's a really bad for Condition Overload and many other weapons like pox. So better Armor stripping would be great, because you do almost nothing to heavy armored units if your Power Strength isn't high enough to strip their armor while status don't work on them.

I can deeply understand your point.

You have to rethink it. Use ur 'slow/cold' effects... use a good procing weapon or just Galantine P. to proc some slash procs in a wide area (range). After applying some slash procs just freez them. Now hit again, yes u can not proc on frozen enemies, but now all procs ticking before your freez, will continue to tick for the hole duration of frozen targets.

Now, your condition overload will work unlimited. Waaaay better then without freezing them. Not only grands you this way procs that normal tick 8 times, to tick 48++++ times therfore your condition overload is not running off... each proc ticking after freezinhäg them start to scale up theire procing dmg. Now you increased on targets DoT (damage over time) as well the duration of each proc. And your weapons bonus dmg can hold up its bonus dmg. It will not drop down as long you keep them frozen and reduce on top theire armor. Btw if you solo...go for 75% armor reducing on Avalance and use 1CP to get 100% armor reducing ooor go for max range and duration (which i prefer).

After freezing, without procs ticking before and using status related weapons is completly bad. Frost is able to slow hard before that. Use it..slow,proc, freez, hit,..grofit.

Good day buddy.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Oberon cant hold enemies still

Oberon cant project a 1 sided shield bubble with a chance to hold enemies still

Oberon cant slow waves of enemies at 1 time

 

Frost doesnt need more things

😂

You forget to add:

- On cast direct -100% armor

- Damage dealing, scalingup currently on targets running procs: proc dmg and procing ticks, ticking unlimited..just limited by duration.

- Detonation Dmg arround each frozen target.

- increasing impact dmg on frozen targets

- waaay bigger range

- if 1-4 CP, this skill is still doing an awesome job while oberon debuff skill is reduced down to be just a low dmg low range CC...that's why Frost keeps on to do his job, while Oberons debuff is falling down in use. Frost can do waay more dmg with it then oberon could dream on.

- Oberon needs to recast over and over and over...till he almost get the effect of 1 cast by frost. Duration does not care. Recasting and again running away in amount of debuffed targets. Finish.

While you hear oberon steaming loud bc he is still trying to debuff the same amount of targets from frosts first debuff...

Frost is more effectiv; Frost debuff is instantly happen, Frosts debuff includes HARD CC (kind of isolating skill) and heavy Damage by procs and detonation dmg arround each frozen target + increases impact dmg for everyone shoting/hitting frozen targets. Offers Deff bc..well they can not atk,spell,move..nothing. All this in 1 skill. Awesome in any situation on the battlefield.

Frost is imo the best insta armor debuffer with a high effi for each energy point used to do it. While offering soo much more. And i am a Mag main ;)

Frost is one of the best allrounder frames in WF. Period. And he outclasses oberon at any point within both debuffing skills.

 

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

DE gave frost too many things

Actualy NO ;)

He just got what any frame should have...a well balanced allrounded kit to survive, kill, support.

Many skills or frames therfore are not well done. This makes them look bad and some other frames like him, with the right scalings to DD/CC/Deff/Proc... look superior. The prob is majority of skills are not scalling or not scalling when they should. 

Mag got more scalings and effi to each energy point used on damage dealing. Ofc she can insta armor with her (2) but not in a such large area like frost. Which maked frost the best armor ripper in WF imo. 

Combo with frost -100% armor + Mag's (3) witch do on drained armor targets detonation dmg in 8m radius, as well with same skill range/duration can do devasting damage.

Mag pulls all together/group up, bubble them and throw in some high status procing shots (pox), frost now freez all rip them and all procs on them scale up while mag now press (3)..BooM.

Sorry, my english is not the best...so i need more words to descripe what i try to say 😓

Edited by P0Pz
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On 6/15/2017 at 5:59 AM, IfritKajiTora said:

Should Frost get buff with armor stripping? Because it's a lot weaker compared to Oberon's stripping. You can even cast it two times to strip full armor with 50% armor reduction without any timers, while Frost  only last for the duration of Avalanche.

Do you actually have a hard time killing units with Frost?

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21 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Actualy NO ;)

It was a joke.

Frost/Nidus/Limbo (to an extent)/ Saryn etc are where other weaker frames should be tbh.

Especially Ember, Titania (to an extent) and Mag without needing weird insta kill gimmicks like high power str mag + gas whatever.

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

It was a joke.

Frost/Nidus/Limbo (to an extent)/ Saryn etc are where other weaker frames should be tbh.

Especially Ember, Titania (to an extent) and Mag without needing weird insta kill gimmicks like high power str mag + gas whatever.

Mag combines 2 different powersources (skill sources + weapon sources) to create 1 combined damage source. Its no gimmick therfore. Its combining 2 sources. While both sides can scale up. This makes makes Mag's (2) & (3) unlimited scaling up and extrem flexibel to use.

Frost combines 2 different power sources (skill sources + weapon sources) as well. Same as mag,...

Both work to scale up with, weapons and status effects and theire own skill power sources (multis/mechanic(s)).

Both have detonation dmg arround each target effect by 1 of theire skill.

Both do light CC and Hard CC

Both are able to combine each of theire skills to improve together the over all power source of them.

Frost & Mag are great combos. Both work with the same combining weapon sources. Mag & Frost need no gas as gimmik. But both could make use out of it ;) Both! On my Mag i use

Pox (corro+blast: armor strip & anti melee function) Torid (Radiation + Viral: selfe dmg increase,detonation dmg increase and ofc half total health) Lesion or Mios (procing status/slash) Shade (Survival/deff) or Kavat Adarza (more dmg) ;)

While frost is focused to evade dmg (slow/freez) aka more deff focused but not totaly. And Mag focused to do high damage over time and burst dmg aka more damgedealing focused but not totaly. Both can do more then theire core wants to be. Which makes them extrem flexible to use.

So in short: yes..just like you said 😂

Edited by P0Pz
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1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Do you actually have a hard time killing units with Frost?

If Heavy armored units on higher levels are Frozen by Avalanche? Yes, because I'm not using full strip armor build, and while they are Frozen, status doesn't work on them :/ can't put corrosive on them or something different to get nice damage from melee with condition overload. It looks like taking forever to kill them, it's just a waste of time. While Frozen enemies should be easier to crush, Avalanche actually make them harder to crush without 100% armor strip build.
I can use Snow Globe to push them into walls taking up to 50% of their health, but there aren't always walls.

Edited by IfritKajiTora
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34 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

If Heavy armored units on higher levels are Frozen by Avalanche? Yes, because I'm not using full strip armor build, and while they are Frozen, status doesn't work on them :/ can't put corrosive on them or something different to get nice damage from melee with condition overload. It looks like taking forever to kill them, it's just a waste of time. While Frozen enemies should be easier to crush, Avalanche actually make them harder to crush without 100% armor strip build.
I can use Snow Globe to push them into walls taking up to 50% of their health, but there aren't always walls.

I would suggest you mod accordingly then for the mission you wish to partake in.

While avalanche may not remove 100% of your enemies armor, that does not mean that your gun does not service you. It's just reduced effectiveness.

Consider also using avalanche as a utility when the skill no longer seems useful to you as a means of killing. 

In all honesty, this is part of why I suggested that armor be applied to only the physical armor pieces of Grineer so that precision shots would still do damage to health without the damage reduction. This would of course require a slight redesign of Grineer armor but it's worth it in the end.

Edited by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru
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5 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

In all honesty, this is part of why I suggested that armor be applied to only the physical armor pieces of Grineer so that precision shots would still do damage to health without the damage reduction. This would of course require a slight redesign of Grineer armor but it's worth it in the end.

Yeah that would be great.
Like in Borderlands enemies have weak points where it makes critical damage.

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On 6/15/2017 at 6:14 AM, Ksaero said:

And then make Reckoning spawn Snow Globe, yeah.

I do wish Oberon's Hallowed Ground acted like Snow Globe in that it was a long duration dance floor, instead of a fleeting little rug. 

Place HG down in a strategic place, like a nice fat door way and it lasts until it deals like 10,000 damage(Increased by power strength) or something.  Then, for every enemy killed on the carpet, Oberon gets 0.5% energy returned to him. 

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On 6/15/2017 at 8:14 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

Honestly, I don't know even why avalanche strips armor in the first place. I think they just gave to him as a bonus when they reworked him. 

Mags crush is one ability that should've had innatea armor stripping and not require an augment. She should be one of the best armor strippers in the game with hey skill set.

Anything Frost does should be seen as a bonus

Agreed. Shes the master of magnetism and cant innatley strip armor. Its weird.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Agreed. Shes the master of magnetism and cant innatley strip armor. Its weird.

Mag can insta strip Armor; casting her (2) with 2 pox shots (1-2sec) and on top any target which got armor drained, damaging it for its missing max armor amount × (multiplicator on default x2) in a 8m arround it, any targets. Multiple drained targets standing close therfore can hit each others multiple times. While each of the detonation can hit unprotected bodyparts (another multiplicator) with her (3) Polarize.

Mag is a great Damage dealing CC Queen.

Hands down, if she had Frosts large range of armor debuffing it would be totaly unbalanced and a insta killer.

Do not forget she can remove any typ of enemy deff stats in 1 go and also dmg it for the total drained amount of missing stats × multiplicator. (3) does xxx millions of dmg in HL by 1 button push insta, with 2-4 bubbles up before.

Mag's DD skills(tools) are focused to be very energy effi. While stripping armor is in range limited and her bubbles standing up to use as a tool. Frost on other hand to strip in same time all armor insta may be the most energy effi way and 100% insta...but to do damage frost need more energy using as mag.

Its balanced. And if u combine both to work together you will find a great symbiose. Pull×4/casting (2) grouping up/frost (4)/ mag (3) = 2 × detonation arround targets, from frost (4) & Mag's (3). 

Place2 as best armor stripper in WF is still more then awesome for Mag. And Frost beeing the best stripper in a wide area gives him more then "defensive" abilities which makes frost as flexible to use as Mag. While ofc frost DDs also with DoT but needs a lot more time as mag and is limited in area to spread his DDing. Both do work with and scale with weapon power and there own abilities powers up.

Frost got imo the best balanced frame kit ingame together with Excalibur. Mag's (4) needs to be reworked to work for her (2) as tool and still work by its own. Just like the other 3 abilities of her + a fitting passive + more max energy.  Then we have 2 perfect frame kits. Which work together in a awesome way (already).

 

Edited by P0Pz
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4 hours ago, P0Pz said:

Mag can insta strip Armor; casting her (2) with 2 pox shots (1-2sec) and on top any target which got armor drained, damaging it for its missing max armor amount × (multiplicator on default x2) in a 8m arround it, any targets. Multiple drained targets standing close therfore can hit each others multiple times. While each of the detonation can hit unprotected bodyparts (another multiplicator) with her (3) Polarize.

Mag is a great Damage dealing CC Queen.

Hands down, if she had Frosts large range of armor debuffing it would be totaly unbalanced and a insta killer.

Do not forget she can remove any typ of enemy deff stats in 1 go and also dmg it for the total drained amount of missing stats × multiplicator. (3) does xxx millions of dmg in HL by 1 button push insta, with 2-4 bubbles up before.

Mag's DD skills(tools) are focused to be very energy effi. While stripping armor is in range limited and her bubbles standing up to use as a tool. Frost on other hand to strip in same time all armor insta may be the most energy effi way and 100% insta...but to do damage frost need more energy using as mag.

Its balanced. And if u combine both to work together you will find a great symbiose. Pull×4/casting (2) grouping up/frost (4)/ mag (3) = 2 × detonation arround targets, from frost (4) & Mag's (3). 

Place2 as best armor stripper in WF is still more then awesome for Mag. And Frost beeing the best stripper in a wide area gives him more then "defensive" abilities which makes frost as flexible to use as Mag. While ofc frost DDs also with DoT but needs a lot more time as mag and is limited in area to spread his DDing. Both do work with and scale with weapon power and there own abilities powers up.

Frost got imo the best balanced frame kit ingame together with Excalibur. Mag's (4) needs to be reworked to work for her (2) as tool and still work by its own. Just like the other 3 abilities of her + a fitting passive + more max energy.  Then we have 2 perfect frame kits. Which work together in a awesome way (already).

 

Im talking about crush. 

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im talking about crush. 

I know. My point was: "Crush needs no insta armor remove when 2 already can remove armor and shields, insta."

4 is with aug the 3rd skil  to reduce armor...how many armor remove does it need? 

4 should focus on CC by its own and add something else as tool for her 2. 

4  does ot even needs to make a lot damage. Mag got already 1 heavy DoT tool and 2 x heavy burst dmg tools/effects with unlimited upscaling. 

- 4 could magnetize enemies body, which increases bullet speed shot to them bc of attraction. Therfore dmg. 

Keyword: Gauss effect. Now add a group effect which increases/ the effect. For the duration of time, gun triggers are blocked on perma shotting. Which means, enemies guns will shot perma holstered or not, have increased recoil effect by this uncontrollable guns, -% accuracy. So we got a CC and a effect from CC her 2 can work with.

4 needs no more armor reducing. Its to much from the same debuff on 1 frame.

Hope ya got my point buddy.

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3 hours ago, P0Pz said:

I know. My point was: "Crush needs no insta armor remove when 2 already can remove armor and shields, insta."

4 is with aug the 3rd skil  to reduce armor...how many armor remove does it need? 

4 should focus on CC by its own and add something else as tool for her 2. 

4  does ot even needs to make a lot damage. Mag got already 1 heavy DoT tool and 2 x heavy burst dmg tools/effects with unlimited upscaling. 

- 4 could magnetize enemies body, which increases bullet speed shot to them bc of attraction. Therfore dmg. 

Keyword: Gauss effect. Now add a group effect which increases/ the effect. For the duration of time, gun triggers are blocked on perma shotting. Which means, enemies guns will shot perma holstered or not, have increased recoil effect by this uncontrollable guns, -% accuracy. So we got a CC and a effect from CC her 2 can work with.

4 needs no more armor reducing. Its to much from the same debuff on 1 frame.

Hope ya got my point buddy.

Comparitive to frosts cc/armor stripping....crush needs innate armor stripping. Yes her two is excellent... But her crush ability should be able to lock down a map imo.

Speaking of... Does anyone know what power strength should be for the Augment cap of 50% armor reduction to be reached?

Edited by (PS4)big_eviljak
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On 6/17/2017 at 7:30 AM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I would suggest you mod accordingly then for the mission you wish to partake in.

While avalanche may not remove 100% of your enemies armor, that does not mean that your gun does not service you. It's just reduced effectiveness.

Consider also using avalanche as a utility when the skill no longer seems useful to you as a means of killing.

I think this is where the whole conflict boils down to in this topic. Status procs != Elemental Damage. If your weapons have the right IPS or are modded accordingly to the appropriate elemental weakness of your chosen faction, then damage shouldn't be an issue. In Frost's case, even if enemies are frozen, if you mod your weapons to the faction's elemental weakness they would still take a boon to overall damage regardless of stat procs if you are a heavy Avalanche user.

Personally, Frost doesn't need a buff to Avalanche. Avalanche is very, very hard CC. Your weapons should be doing the talking in the end.

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I think this is where the whole conflict boils down to in this topic. Status procs != Elemental Damage. If your weapons have the right IPS or are modded accordingly to the appropriate elemental weakness of your chosen faction, then damage shouldn't be an issue. In Frost's case, even if enemies are frozen, if you mod your weapons to the faction's elemental weakness they would still take a boon to overall damage regardless of stat procs if you are a heavy Avalanche user.

Personally, Frost doesn't need a buff to Avalanche. Avalanche is very, very hard CC. Your weapons should be doing the talking in the end.

Precisely. No to mention precision damage still applies.

Edited by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru
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Frost got the perfect rework, a passive that does something, and amazing augment mods, that again, do things of value (unlike many, many other frames)....but his armor stripping side effect isnt as good as a used to be second rate frame....ooohhhh nnnooooo.

Salt for me.

Of course frost should strip more armor. Why not. Not here to crush anyones dreams.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Frost got the perfect rework, a passive that does something, and amazing augment mods, that again, do things of value (unlike many, many other frames)....but his armor stripping side effect isnt as good as a used to be second rate frame....ooohhhh nnnooooo.

Salt for me.

Of course frost should strip more armor. Why not. Not here to crush anyones dreams.

Frost is the master off cc... The fact he csn strip armor, protect his team and friggin do everything else...leaves him in such a good place. 

I wish his passive would freeze the lungs/energy modules of enemies in a 5m radius around him 50% of the time basically causing panic with a chance to stagger.

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