Ash still needs work

[AKKILLA]

ASH IS TRASH!!!

Ever heard the term?

Well its practically true. Sure Ash deals good damage, he has high survivability with a high health pool which in reality makes no sense in My history of playing Assassins in any online games (Mobas Mainly) 

Ashs kit is off, I will explain each ability in detail.

Shuriken, deals low damage in end game and only strips armor, and casts only 3 shurikens that fly off sometimes.

Why not add a barrage of small shurikens that stun enemies,  and a charged shuriken that deals more damage.

Smoke Screen, cloaks you for a short period of time and staggers enemies for 1 second.

why not cast an AoE in the are that stuns enemies in side opening them to finisher kills, keep same duration mechanics in and out of smoke screen

Teleport instantly moves you in front of enemies stunning them for finisher kills

The animtion is off and the stun sometimes doesnt function, add a small smoke cloud wherever he lands that stuns enemies

Blade Storm, ash goes on a rampage killing enemies with clones dealing slash/finisher damage

Why not rework into a Stance, this provides interactivity, synergy between abilities and fixes the camera and lots of other bugs BS has had for Years.

You say it shouldnt be a Stance? I say it should and have good reason to prove my statement, Ash being a Melee frame, and BS being a Melee ability with innate melee weapons makes this concept viable and makes sense. There is no way a Stance ultimate for Ashs BS a bad idea nor will it make him unengaging and less interactive in fact this is exactly what Ash needed all along

How does it work? Press 4 and Ash summons clones while unsheathing his Katars, every attack will summon an AoE of shadow Clones dealing Slash bleed procs, any kills in stealth of finisher kills to enemies in teleport or in Smoke Screen will be a Multifinisher kill Ash and his 2 clones will   do the same animation and deal Finisher damage to the enemies within his range. The Multi Finisher kill will only occur if there are 3 enemies within (X) amount of meters

 

[Aurea_Hiigara]

So you quit because one frame doesn't do what it would do if you were directing the game?

[Fabpsi]

Well... with thread-titles like this one I never know what to expect, maybe you wanna change that ^^'

Regarding Ash: I like him atm, the change of his 4th ability he received some time ago was also nice imo.....I like the slash proc of his first ability, the emergency smoke screen (don't play him on duration, so there is that^^) , the quickteleport to an enemy with his 3rd ability...so...yea, I am quick and silent like a ninja with him, enough for me :3

 

Oh and Goodbye! I guess it is sad to see someone quitting Warframe because of the points you provided..but your choice mate I guess^^

Farewell

[ScorpDK]

So you're complaining about one of the frames that is in a pretty good spot and has received the most edits in the past years (aside from Trinity and maybe one or the other frame), and has been given augments that make his abilities able to either enable him to instantly kill enemies, or reduce their defenses effectively...

...when you have other frames that are absolutely unable to do ANYTHING at high level...? What is Hydroid gonna say?  "Oh, yeah, I got a primary skill that barely hits anything and has a CHANCE to apply a corrosive proc when giving it an augment - which is permanent, but it's affected by diminishing returns compared to Ash's Seeking Shurikens-  but hey! I can turn into a wave that clears procs if I augment it...I can turn into a puddle that doesn't even tickle but can heal allies when I augment it... Oh, and I got tentacles that spawn in random places and swing wildly, may miss the target and do little damage, but if they DO kill the target, I can get extra loot...if I augment it."
Basically, the guy should be called Augmentframe. Because nothing he does is remarkable until you sacrifice one or more mod slots to augment his stuff.

Or, you know. One of the other 15+ frames you basically never see anywhere.

[Nazrethim]

47 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

ASH IS TRASH!!!

Ever heard the term?

Well its practically true. Sure Ash deals good damage, he has high survivability with a high health pool which in reality makes no sense in My history of playing Assassins in any online games (Mobas Mainly) 

Ashs kit is off, I will explain each ability in detail.

I would like to add a few things you missed, excuse me ^^

47 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Shuriken, deals low damage in end game and only strips armor, and casts only 3 shurikens that fly off sometimes.

It also tracks whatever it wants instead of what you actually aim, often seeking cameras (even the Kuva indestructible ones)

Conclave: Deals 38 puncture and doesn't have any debuff or DoT, also doesn't track anything. A mk-1 Kunai deals 70, has better flight speed and accuracy, an bigger ammo pool

47 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Smoke Screen, cloaks you for a short period of time and staggers enemies for 1 second.

Stagger is mostly pointless against decent enemies as they will often have some ability, animation or aura that makes them inmune to it.

Conclave: breaks on anything, lasts less than a f*rt in a bag and the augment doesn't blind jacksquat. Also doesn't have a stagger.

47 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Teleport instantly moves you in front of enemies stunning them for finisher kills

The animtion is off and the stun sometimes doesnt function

And it still telebugs you inside certain objects (like the commonly ever present James Blunts

47 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Blade Storm, ash goes on a rampage killing enemies with clones dealing slash/finisher damage

Why not rework into a Stance, this provides interactivity, synergy between abilities and fixes the camera and lots of other bugs BS has had for Years.

You say it shouldnt be a Stance? I say it should and have good reason to prove my statement, Ash being a Melee frame, and BS being a Melee ability with innate melee weapons makes this concept viable and makes sense. There is no way a Stance ultimate for Ashs BS a bad idea nor will it make him unengaging and less interactive in fact this is exactly what Ash needed all along

And he was the First frame with his own inate weapons, well before Valkyr showed up with her Talons and Mesa with her Regulators.

 

[Nazrethim]

43 minutes ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

So you quit because one frame doesn't do what it would do if you were directing the game?

To put it simply, I will repeat what I said on the Megathread:

On 8/6/2017 at 9:00 PM, Nazrethim said:

Indeed. By this point, only 4 kinds of people think the revisit was good:

1- People in denial

2- People who hate Ash or don't care about him (why do they comment on a frame they don't like/care is anyone's guess)

3- People totally lost on their max efficiency bubble who weren't really affected (ironically they were the root of the problem in the first place with their relentless bladespam)

4- Morons who don't know the difference between "buff", "nerf", "rework", and "actual game F-ing Balance"

And actual fans of the frame are either:
1- Enduring the nerfs

2- Asking on the Forums and Social Media for a true meaningful Ash Rework

3- Abandoned Warframe out of disgust

[Nazrethim]

13 minutes ago, ScorpDK said:

So you're complaining about one of the frames that is in a pretty good spot

He's not a good spot, yes he is playable. But that is where the zenith is: Playable doesn't mean it's Good.

It's like claiming Big Rigs is a Good Truck-Racing Game because it's playable.

Also. refer to my previous comment for a bit of enlightment.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Nazrethim

[ScorpDK]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

He's not a good spot, yes he is playable. But that is where the zenith is: Playable doesn't mean it's Good.

It's like claiming Big Rigs is a Good Truck-Racing Game because it's playable.

Also. refer to my previous comment for a bit of enlightment.

Maybe "in a decent spot compared to all those other frames", then.

Ash at the very least comes with some durability (health, shields and armor), so he doesn't instantly turn into particles the second he rounds a corner. Has stealth as an option (albeit heavily limited on duration mods), and with Fatal Teleport / Bladestorm you can dish out some heavy damage against the mayority of enemies.

I'm not saying he's amazing. But at the very least I am not afraid of taking him out of the Arsenal and into a high-level mission. Which I can't say for many of the frames.

[LycanPT]

IMHO Trash needs better work indeed, while not being a useless frame he is not particularly good either.

His shuriken needs indeed proper targetting and its augment should be fused with it IMO, his stagger on invis is okaish but could be something else better, his teleport is OK imo (maybe we could add the stagger to this ability instead?) but his 4th is completely useless in any way you look at it, it takes too long to set up for less damage than a regular average moded gun, even if you bypass the energy issue due to good building, it is just not worth.

[Nazrethim]

22 minutes ago, ScorpDK said:

Maybe "in a decent spot compared to all those other frames", then.

Ash at the very least comes with some durability (health, shields and armor), so he doesn't instantly turn into particles the second he rounds a corner. Has stealth as an option (albeit heavily limited on duration mods), and with Fatal Teleport / Bladestorm you can dish out some heavy damage against the mayority of enemies.

I'm not saying he's amazing. But at the very least I am not afraid of taking him out of the Arsenal and into a high-level mission. Which I can't say for many of the frames.

That's a better way to put it. He has good things, but those were thing he had previous to the revisit. The revisit brought more negative things and a single positive one (cast on the move SS). Except for Conclave, where all Ash got was his abilities nerfed to the point Channeling is the best use of energy for him by virtue of all of his abilities being useless or almost useless (by comparison to everyone else), which interestingly makes him a formidable Melee frame and the most skill-based character in the roster.

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

I'm just glad his press 4 to win mechanic is gone...

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Ash is fine, he could be better but realistically every frame can be better. 1. That first suggesting can be applied to almost every fire and forget ability. 2.Smokescreen suggesting is alright. 3. don't think that would really change anything but block my view LOS a little. 4. That's a hell of a lot of coding for a stance ult and knowing DE something is going to get buggy or worse. I actually like the whole idea of ash only using his hidden blades for quick precise attacks when their needed and use his equipped melee for killing in general.

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)YouBitePi11ows said:

I'm just glad his press 4 to win mechanic is gone...

We all do, but actual fans con dos dedos de frente want an actual rework, not supreme sh*tty version of the sh*tty power we had before.

 

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Ash is fine in my imagination

There, fixed that for you.

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

That's a hell of a lot of coding for a stance ult and knowing DE something is going to get buggy or worse.

Not really, when I say it's the "past of less resistance" is not just fancy wording, it's the actual truth. A good enough to amaizing stance could be cobbled together by mixing different moves, no different from how they coded the Conclave stances. The cool animations Blade Storm has now? Finisher attacks. Add in some crowd clearing potential (like multikill Finishers via clone assistance triggered by doing a Finisher attack in BS Stance) and you get a supreme powerful Stance Ultimate that already plays different from the others (you need either Finisher-opener abilities, the Stance's own combos, which would place it in a very different category than Exalted Spam we all love and hate). Add the twist of making it Duration-based rather than Drain-over-Time (so it has a fixed 100 activation cost and makes Fleeting Expertise a choice and not a mandatory mod) with the ability to deactivate it by recast and presto. Actual rework in, what? an update and perhaps 1 or 2 hotfixes?

[Awazx]

On 2017-6-16 at 5:02 PM, AKKILLA said:

ASH IS TRASH!!!

+1

[LSG501]

There's currently 127 pages on the rework thread.... it's a year old as of 3 days ago.... last time I checked a lot of that is people complaining about the rework (and I can't say I've seen an ash since the rework either) yet nothings been done, even something as simple as lowering the energy requirements of bladestorm....so for a lot of us Ash might as well not exist because there are other frames that pretty much do the rest of his kit better.

I vaguely remember dev's saying they'd look at him again a few devstreams ago but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Nazrethim]

22 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

There's currently 127 pages on the rework thread.... it's a year old as of 3 days ago.... last time I checked a lot of that is people complaining about the rework (and I can't say I've seen an ash since the rework either) yet nothings been done, even something as simple as lowering the energy requirements of bladestorm....so for a lot of us Ash might as well not exist because there are other frames that pretty much do the rest of his kit better.

I vaguely remember dev's saying they'd look at him again a few devstreams ago but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Indeed. And morons defending the Nerfvisit aren't helping either.

[Hypernaut1]

Ash is fine. Most of your ideas are terrible and would probably ruin Ash further by turning him into an Excalibur clone. Its not the devs fault you arent effective with him. I can take Ash into all content and do exceptionally well with him. I dont see what the problem is. Just because he doesnt match the  fantasy rework you daydream about in your head doesnt mean hes a bad frame.

Some of you are asking for an unreasonable amount of changes, practically asking for a new frame. Its unnecessary. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ash is fine. Most of your ideas are terrible and would probably ruin Ash further by turning him into an Excalibur clone. Its not the devs fault you arent effective with him. I can take Ash into all content and do exceptionally well with him. I dont see what the problem is. Just because he doesnt match the  fantasy rework you daydream about in your head doesnt mean hes a bad frame.

Some of you are asking for an unreasonable amount of changes, practically asking for a new frame. Its unnecessary. 

wanting lower energy drain on 4 is unreasonable..... then there's the motion sickness some people were complaining over or the being stuck in animation sequence with no way to cancel it, something people complained about prior to the rework because you couldn't do anything during that phase. 

 

[Nazrethim]

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ash is fine.

Not he isn't. Mathematically proven. You claim Ash is fine without any actual proof.

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Most of your ideas are terrible and would probably ruin Ash further by turning him into an Excalibur clone.

Which is something all stance rework suggestions for Blade Storm actually avoid, but of course, you wouldn't know because you've never read any of them. You think it would be mindless E spam like EB is, which most reworks try to avoid at all cost.

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Its not the devs fault you arent effective with him. I can take Ash into all content and do exceptionally well with him. I dont see what the problem is. Just because he doesnt match the  fantasy rework you daydream about in your head doesnt mean hes a bad frame.

Do it without max efficiency, without zenurik nor arcane energize and see how well you go with BS. Or better yet, play with other players and see how you can compete with massive killing powers while you are stuck in animation. Or play any defense-based mission and see how your target dies while you are stuck in endless animation (provided you used 2 or 3 pizzas just to mark 15 dudes). Or play him in Conclave where all of his abilities are sh*t to the point Channeling is a better use of energy. And yes, it's DE's fault for ignoring actual feedback previous to the revisit, which pointed out, among other things, that individual marking mode and no clone assisst would be terrible and a dumb idea, yet they went anyway with it. Meanwhile, the actual problems with the ability weren't adressed at all and just got worse.

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Some of you are asking for an unreasonable amount of changes, practically asking for a new frame. Its unnecessary. 

And some, like me, are asking for changes done with already existing assets that DE could get done in about 1 or 2 months of work and make a good rework for Ash, restoring his power while avoiding going back to press 4 to win. It is necessary, just like Oberon, Limbo and, in the future, Zephyr and Hydroid, need reworks, Ash needs an actual rework, not a sh*tty revisit that made everything worse.

[Hypernaut1]

Your math is bunk. I, and many other Ash players use 4 without problem. Most frames without efficiency can only cast their 4 1x before running low on energy. BS is a very strong ability, its not made to nuke entire rooms of low level trash mobs. He's an assassin now. His job is to take out high priority targets, not compete for top kills of trash like an Ember. When the going gets tough, Ash will be one of the last frames still dealing damage and killing enemies with ease. The cost of his 4 is appropriate without efficiency. With 170% efficiency, i have no issue at all keeping his 4 toggled on and marking as i go. Ash does not have energy issues.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[ShadowStalker]

All his abilities have problems but people still stay stuff like "Ash is fine" "Ash is perfect" like why lie to your self and others

[ashrah]

recent change to ash is totally killed 4th skill i dont even use it now

[Kezriak]

7 minutes ago, ashrah said:

recent change to ash is totally killed 4th skill i dont even use it now

Agreed, I used it the first couple times I played him and was in awe, after that i asked myself "Why did DE think going through this same animation multiple times over and over again was a good idea?"

[ShadowStalker]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:15 AM, ScorpDK said:

So you're complaining about one of the frames that is in a pretty good spot and has received the most edits in the past years (aside from Trinity and maybe one or the other frame), and has been given augments that make his abilities able to either enable him to instantly kill enemies, or reduce their defenses effectively...

...when you have other frames that are absolutely unable to do ANYTHING at high level...? What is Hydroid gonna say?  "Oh, yeah, I got a primary skill that barely hits anything and has a CHANCE to apply a corrosive proc when giving it an augment - which is permanent, but it's affected by diminishing returns compared to Ash's Seeking Shurikens-  but hey! I can turn into a wave that clears procs if I augment it...I can turn into a puddle that doesn't even tickle but can heal allies when I augment it... Oh, and I got tentacles that spawn in random places and swing wildly, may miss the target and do little damage, but if they DO kill the target, I can get extra loot...if I augment it."
Basically, the guy should be called Augmentframe. Because nothing he does is remarkable until you sacrifice one or more mod slots to augment his stuff.

Or, you know. One of the other 15+ frames you basically never see anywhere.

1-Ash is not in a good spot what are you talking about

2-just because hydroid  weak compared to ash dosent mean ash is in a good spot or that he dosent need a rework or its ok to have bad frames plus he will get his rework anyway before his prime access comes out you can technically call ash augment frame aswell since currently the best builds for him require two augments that is seeking shuriken or fatal teleport 

Edited June 19, 2017 by ShadowStalker

[Gravitus123]

Honestly the only real change Ash needs is his Bladestorm which is clunky,slow and pretty much worthless.The rest of his abilities are good and they have some great augments too