Ash still needs work

[failedtodiet]

The un-skipable stabbing cutscenes need to go away .Or maybe add some QTE for bonus damage/energy restore/health restore/random buffs. That's all i ask for Ash's rework.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

On 6/20/2017 at 2:20 AM, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Wrong..want a list?

I'll gladly help you with your list as it is a long one.

[ShadowStalker]

1 minute ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

It's hard believing you consider the lvl 100+ content a good baseline for Ash not to suck. On lvl 100+ only fatal teleport gets you reliable and reasonably efficient kills and under lvl 100 a load of frames kill faster and get CC and team buff to boot.

Ash's abilities bring nothing to the group at lvl 100+ or before that.......

He is a killframe inefficient in killing. His ultimate's energy consumption is astronomical while being so slow that fatal teleport is just that much better to use. (That's an augment by the way and not a standard ability like it should have been in the first place)

its really sad to see all his abilities need augments to make them usable in higher lvl content i dont know why stuff like auto finisher(for teleport) and Armour removal cant be innate to the abilities and require augments to do it and its made even worse since DE said they wont add augment slots so we have to sacrifice either power,efficiency,duration etc 

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

1 minute ago, ShadowStalker said:

its really sad to see all his abilities need augments to make them usable in higher lvl content i dont know why stuff like auto finisher(for teleport) and Armour removal cant be innate to the abilities and require augments to do it and its made even worse since DE said they wont add augment slots so we have to sacrifice either power,efficiency,duration etc 

+1

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

On 6/19/2017 at 1:55 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

Your math is bunk. 

Prove his math is bunk please. You ought to put your money where your mouth is. He has already asked you to prove his math wrong and you have ignored it.

You talk the talk but you don't walk the walk. Its not fair to call people out claiming they are wrong without any facts to back the claim you are making.

Edited June 21, 2017 by (PS4)vrykolacas82

[Hypernaut1]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

Prove his match is bunk please. You ought to put your money where your mouth is. He has already asked you to prove his math wrong and you have ignored it.

You talk the talk but you don't walk the walk. Its not fair to call people out claiming they are wrong without any facts to back the claim you are making.

You truly don't need to stalk my comments....

Actual in game gameplay is all that's needed to prove his math is B.S. Ash is fine and does great in all levels of content.

There's this weird cult of Ash haters on this forum. I think it's a left over remnant of players that used to depend on his easy p4tw nuke abilities, and are now hurt that those abilities have been phased out of WF. 

I liked Ash for his style not his nuke. 

Ok..... I'm done with you now. I have no interest in a personal back and forth anymore. If you want to discuss the finer points of playing Ash we can do so. 

 

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You truly don't need to stalk my comments....

Actual in game gameplay is all that's needed to prove his math is B.S. Ash is fine and does great in all levels of content.

There's this weird cult of Ash haters on this forum. I think it's a left over remnant of players that used to depend on his easy p4tw nuke abilities, and are now hurt that those abilities have been phased out of WF. 

I liked Ash for his style not his nuke. 

Ok..... I'm done with you now. I have no interest in a personal back and forth anymore. If you want to discuss the finer points of playing Ash we can do so. 

 

I'm not stalking your comments, you are just contradicting yourself and make somewhat unfounded claims. You understand that commenst like; I am able to do it so you just dont know how to play and your math is bunk because of my actual ingame gameplay, don't hold water. For the life of me what is ingame gameplay as opposed to gameplay?

I think you mistake Ash haters on this forum for people who actually loved Ash from square one and simply want to see their belovered frame with abilities that sync and mesh well in a team. The whole reason BS is mentioned a million times is because DE only touched that ability by adding a marking mechanic and called it a revisit.

You and I can't seem to see eye to eye and agree that with the mostly negative feedback on the revisited megathread and no reply from DE for over a year, Ash fans are left out in the cold. Do note that Ash has always been an extremely popular frame, so hence the sour reaction from so many players.

P4tw abilities have certainly not been phased out either. WoF, Maim, Avalanche, Exalted Blade are all p4tw.

It is a terrible shame you have no interest in some more back and forth between us as I was really hoping you would start mixing facts in your arguments to make me see the error of my ways. 

 

EDIT: Just noticed you mentioned Ash is fine again. In the previous post he wasn't perfect and the one before that he was fine again. Please make a decision on which one it will be. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by (PS4)vrykolacas82

[AKKILLA]

There is so much I missed out trust me, I occasionally get on forums to see what's going on and what's been done. Let me be completely honest with you all. I only play Warframe for ASH idc about any other Warframe but ASH he is my life, he is my most used Warframe and I have spent not only hard long hours and years playing him, I've spent hard earned cash on him and don't mind continuing to do so but I am deceived and disappointed. I fell in love with this game as a whole once I indulged myself in maxing out each and every frame but I can't continue to pretend to love this game when you ruined what I once loved. Not like Blade Storm was better before I always hated how it functions I just love Blade Storm aesthetically. It has an appeal to me that existed in the first trailer I saw, then once I played him in game I felt like I noticed somethings DE either left out, or just didn't care and were too lazy to add. Take a good look at the trailer blade storm and the actual in game animations. They aren't exactly the same at all. The in game animations are cheap and have no visual appeal. Especially the pop up combo, in the trailer it looks more cleaner and detailed, in game ash just knocks the enemy uo, teleport and slaps him to the ground. There are a few other animations in blade storm that you have to agree with me are HORRIBLE and make me question DE how do you design such beautiful graphics and abilities like EB etc but Your only actual Ninja in games ultimate SUCKS! That says alot about your Ninjas play Free. I'm not here to sugar coat sh1t I just keep it real and Ash stats are all messed up and he sucks even tho I never wanted to admit it in front of Loki fans cuz this game is a War against fan boys protecting there fav frames but ASH brings nothing to the table. The only team ability he has is in the form of an augment no-one but me and an ancient civilization of rare Ash players who duration+smoke shadow. I don't watch Mogamu or AGGP or the rest of those boring streamers to learn how to build Ash. All those high strength builds are played out and boring.  Anyone can make a build video and I'm sure alot of you here can build better then Mogamu or the rest of those dorks. Anyone who builds Ash power strength is a4 spammer. I utilize every ability and mainly smoke screen to stack and refresh my arcane trickery which is an important part of my play style with Ash. I can remain invis longer then Loki duration with my SS duration plus Trickery. The point is I along with others as well as yourself have offered ideas on Ash fixes and they completely disregard it which to me feels like a slap in the face and fuk how I feel we will just keep sucking money out of you. That's how i feel DE feel about us and our ideas sometimes. Let's turn BS to a Clone summon, or let's just change his 4th completely to a new ability? HEEELL FUXK NO! The day that happens is the day DE better perma ban me cuz I will start a riot, I'll appear at tennocons and pax East to make people's lives miserable for ruining my once passion in this game. 

[AKKILLA]

Only one huge change Ash needs aswell that we dont talk about is his stats, Ash shouldn't be a Tank that's Rhinos job, Ash should be somewhat squishy, not like Loki squishy but squishy, and his energy should be higher for casting purposes.  How does a ninja utilize his tools when his energy is so low he can barely cast enough cuz he's out of energy.  He needs more energy and lower health. I cant stand the fact he is Tanky that makes no sense. I'm sure plenty players in Mobas will complain about a Tanky assassin. You nuke and take high amounts of damage? Thats not a balance that's another slapin the face saying here take that don't bother me I'm too busy! If you gonna do something so it right not half assed, Ash was done half assed by DE and I'm sure they can do alot better. Just saying they should read this and feel offended in a way that they remake him to be great. Not read this get offended and block or ban players. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

 

[AKKILLA]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

 

Why do you even log in to forums? Forums is the GREAT WALL OF CHINA TEXT!  You must be a troll obviously 

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

4 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Why do you even log in to forums? Forums is the GREAT WALL OF CHINA TEXT!  You must be a troll obviously 

You have a point, why visit a forum if you don't like text? Then he should go Youtube.

 

EDIT: He has 2,646 posts on this forum so he likes his own texts but dislikes yours.

Edited June 21, 2017 by (PS4)vrykolacas82

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

 

But the spelling of your grammAr sucks...

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, ShadowStalker said:

If they wont rework bladestorm they should at least give him another bladestorm augment 

Edit>NVM i dont see my self using 3 augments on one frame 

Not really, it's because, and this many ignore, the revisit ALSO nerfed Rising Storm. Pre-revisit it worked with Body Count, so you 100% RS would grant you 15s (3s base + BC) of combo counter. With Drifting Contact that could have been extended to a whooping 50s combo counter. But DE nerfed RS to only work with base counter whne they revisited Ash, if you are wondering why, it's because the purpose of the revisit was a nerf and not a rework, the fact his abilities got nerfed into uselessness in Conclave at the same time further cements the theory.

I was thinking that, if BS gets reworked into a Stance Ultimate, RS should be changed to "Increase combo counter duration by 3(+2 per rank) seconds and combo counter increase by 0.10x (+0.05x per rank) while in Blade Storm mode". Since Body Count and Drifting Contact don't work on Stance Abilities that would grant Ash's stance BS: 10s combo counter and his attacks would raise the counter by 0.75x increments instead of 0.5x.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

18 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Why do you even log in to forums? Forums is the GREAT WALL OF CHINA TEXT!  You must be a troll obviously 

To contribute in a meaningful way. That typically involves creating coherent posts with proper formatting, spelling and grammar.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

But the spelling of your grammAr sucks...

You're not particularly bright, are you?

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

To contribute in a meaningful way. That typically involves creating coherent posts with proper formatting, spelling and grammar.

 

You're not particularly bright, are you?

So you would call that post of yours meaningful, bright and contributing in a positive manner to the topic do you? 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Just now, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

So you would call that post of yours meaningful, bright and contributing in a positive manner to the topic do you? 

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

That typically involves creating coherent posts with proper formatting, spelling and grammar.

So I ask again:

3 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

You're not particularly bright, are you?

 

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

Actual in game gameplay is all that's needed to prove his math is B.S.

Prove it

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

There's this weird cult of Ash haters on this forum.

Yes, they are the kind of players who oppose any positive change to the frame for no justified reason. We Ash fans have been fighting them since the revisit. They tend to say bullsh like "Ash is fine!" "Ash is good" "BS is now balanced" etc etc.

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think it's a left over remnant of players that used to depend on his easy p4tw nuke abilities, and are now hurt that those abilities have been phased out of WF. 

Dunno about you, but I was rockin Smoke Shadow and regular Efficiency back in the old days of Blade Spam, and I hated Blade Spam, but recognized the problem wasn't the ability itself but people who abused the broken Efficiency stat. Do you know any of those who rely entirely on Max Efficiency? Those are the ones to blame for the nerfvisit.

Oh, and Limboom says "hi!"

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

Ok..... I'm done with you now. I have no interest in a personal back and forth anymore. If you want to discuss the finer points of playing Ash we can do so. 

What's wrong McFly? Chicken?

Afraid of proving my math is right?

[ScorpDK]

So the biggest problem for Ash seems, in general, his ultimate, which has been changed so many times, he may be blood-related to Trinity.

 

When you talk about a stance, where do we go? Would it be something like:

a) Replace your basic melee inputs and potentially improve your ranged defense by lowering enemy accuracy against you by a set percentage.

• Attack: Quick Stabs -  Low energy cost, comes out fast and allows you to continue right away.
• Alt Attack: Vital Strikes - Aims for vital spots, dealing massive finisher damage but having a longer animation.
• Block (or Roll/Sprint?) Teleport towards location under your cursor (if possible)

 

b) Remove his weapons and give him only Shuriken and his Wrist blades, (potentially buffing him with evasion / movement speed, healing-on-kills, or so)

• Quick Melee: Strike ala Archwing (zooming towards enemy near the reticle), distance maybe increases damage dealt? Affected by Melee Mods.
• Attack: Throw a very fast Shuriken at the exact location you're aiming, 100% Bleed Proc, Staggers, Finisher Damage. Affected by Sidearm Mods.
• Aim: Launches two hands worth of shuriken in cone-shape. Affected by Sidearm Mods.

 

-Or- we go to the old toggle Field-of-Death route.

c) Make it a toggle similar to Ember's World on Fire, except that Ash instead summons constant shadow clones of himself that assault and distract enemies without him being forced into cinematic mode.

d) Make it a toggled power in which Ash will automatically retaliate to enemies' actions.

• All enemies in Short/Melee range suffer from Ash striking at them extremely fast (very brief shadow version of Ash striking from his position - lightning reflexes, or w/e you want to call it)
• Ranged attacks get countered by Ash either reflecting their shots back, or throwing shurikens in retaliation.

Or anything else you think may be more fitting?

Edited June 22, 2017 by ScorpDK

[AKKILLA]

11 hours ago, ScorpDK said:

So the biggest problem for Ash seems, in general, his ultimate, which has been changed so many times, he may be blood-related to Trinity.

 

When you talk about a stance, where do we go? Would it be something like:

a) Replace your basic melee inputs and potentially improve your ranged defense by lowering enemy accuracy against you by a set percentage.

• Attack: Quick Stabs -  Low energy cost, comes out fast and allows you to continue right away.
• Alt Attack: Vital Strikes - Aims for vital spots, dealing massive finisher damage but having a longer animation.
• Block (or Roll/Sprint?) Teleport towards location under your cursor (if possible)

 

b) Remove his weapons and give him only Shuriken and his Wrist blades, (potentially buffing him with evasion / movement speed, healing-on-kills, or so)

• Quick Melee: Strike ala Archwing (zooming towards enemy near the reticle), distance maybe increases damage dealt? Affected by Melee Mods.
• Attack: Throw a very fast Shuriken at the exact location you're aiming, 100% Bleed Proc, Staggers, Finisher Damage. Affected by Sidearm Mods.
• Aim: Launches two hands worth of shuriken in cone-shape. Affected by Sidearm Mods.

 

-Or- we go to the old toggle Field-of-Death route.

c) Make it a toggle similar to Ember's World on Fire, except that Ash instead summons constant shadow clones of himself that assault and distract enemies without him being forced into cinematic mode.

d) Make it a toggled power in which Ash will automatically retaliate to enemies' actions.

• All enemies in Short/Melee range suffer from Ash striking at them extremely fast (very brief shadow version of Ash striking from his position - lightning reflexes, or w/e you want to call it)
• Ranged attacks get countered by Ash either reflecting their shots back, or throwing shurikens in retaliation.

Or anything else you think may be more fitting?

His Ultimate is the major issue but there are others as well that may use some touch ups.

My most used abilty and Id say second on My list of reworks for Ash would have to be Smoke Screen!

The idea I have which a few have as well is implementing the Cloud AoE concept. This is a logical tweak to something that should have existed since he was released. Smoke Screen is the one ability that Ash possesses that offers Team Utility and Crowd Control but DE for some strange reason didnt design it that way.

A 1 second stagger is not Crowd Control what so ever, and if it is considered crowd control it is the most trash of CC i ever seen. Implementing this concept will not only offer Ash Crowd Control in the sense of strunning enemies and opening Finisher kills but this offers synergy with his Smoke Shadow augment allowing allies to enter and recieve buff whenevr instead of hugging Ash vice versa. This also provides a unique way to get around if we allow Teleports to target smoke screen clouds. 

So You see, not only Blade Storm needs a fix, his teleport can use small changes to fix minor issues like not stunning enemies You teleport to. The main issues tho are BS and SS, and im not refering to Duration. Im content with My duration people are just greedy and dont know how to Build him, they prefer max Power Strength and negate all duration. I keep everything at 100% and above, I dont build Ash tanky, he isnt a Tank He is an Assassin, I like Glass Cannon Assassins that are squishy but can deal huge damage and are evasive and elusive. 

Ash is a Ninja not a Tank, his stats are all wrong if people want to complain about another Stance Ulti lets argue about Ashs stats being $&*&*#(%&. Never in My gaming life have I seen a Tanky Assassin/Ninja, some may have life steal etc but not a High health pool like Ashs. That needs to be changed, grant him more larger energy pool and maybe an innate lifesteal to blade Storm when dealing slash damage and invulnerability when dealing finisher kills obviously. But all attacks in Blade Storm shouldnt deal Finisher damage only Finisher Kills and Stealth Kills should just for balance purposes

[ScorpDK]

Yeah, Smoke Screen not actually being a, yanno, smoke screen, was something that always bothered me.

 

How about you give him some extra utility by giving this ability a hold function, too.

In essence:

Smoke Screen -
Tap:Creates a thick cloud of smoke centered on Ash's current position that stuns enemies in range for several seconds and blocks all enemies line of sight while Ash becomes invisible.
Hold: Allows Ash to throw the Smoke bomb somewhere else, (either cloaking the nearest Tenno in his stead, or teleporting himself to said location?, or cloaking regardless of being inside the cloud?)

 

[AKKILLA]

12 hours ago, ScorpDK said:

When you talk about a stance, where do we go? Would it be something like:

a) Replace your basic melee inputs and potentially improve your ranged defense by lowering enemy accuracy against you by a set percentage.

• Attack: Quick Stabs -  Low energy cost, comes out fast and allows you to continue right away.
• Alt Attack: Vital Strikes - Aims for vital spots, dealing massive finisher damage but having a longer animation.
• Block (or Roll/Sprint?) Teleport towards location under your cursor (if possible)

 

b) Remove his weapons and give him only Shuriken and his Wrist blades, (potentially buffing him with evasion / movement speed, healing-on-kills, or so)

• Quick Melee: Strike ala Archwing (zooming towards enemy near the reticle), distance maybe increases damage dealt? Affected by Melee Mods.
• Attack: Throw a very fast Shuriken at the exact location you're aiming, 100% Bleed Proc, Staggers, Finisher Damage. Affected by Sidearm Mods.
• Aim: Launches two hands worth of shuriken in cone-shape. Affected by Sidearm Mods.

I actually like both a) and b)

Its like both the ideas mixed together, You cast 4 and Ash uses his wrist blades, and to do ranged attacks you use shuriken, maybe short ranged dash teleprots can be implemented, sorta like Shinobi form PS2. Smoke Screen can provide CC and maybe you can cast 3 smoke screens in BS but duration doesnt refresh. Just more of a CC tool for quick Finisher kills. 

One Idea I really like i the Finisher/Stealth kills in Blade Storm summon 2 clones to kill 2 enemies within a short range near the target. This would basically reward players for Stealth gameplay which is what Ash is a Stealth Warframe, why not offer 2 alternatives to Ash?

*Open Mass Murder Combat

*Stealth Recon and Infiltration

Stealth/Finisher kills should deal massive lethal damage while slash procs deal solid effective bleeds

This concept grants players choice of how to elimiinate enemies, and promotes using all Your abilities instead of press 4 and let the Ninja Slide Show do the work.

Isnt that what we all want Player interaction? There You go, engaging interactive, practical, keeps his identity and fixes all old BS issues

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, ScorpDK said:

Yeah, Smoke Screen not actually being a, yanno, smoke screen, was something that always bothered me.

 

How about you give him some extra utility by giving this ability a hold function, too.

In essence:

Smoke Screen -
Tap:Creates a thick cloud of smoke centered on Ash's current position that stuns enemies in range for several seconds and blocks all enemies line of sight while Ash becomes invisible.
Hold: Allows Ash to throw the Smoke bomb somewhere else, (either cloaking the nearest Tenno in his stead, or teleporting himself to said location?, or cloaking regardless of being inside the cloud?)

 

Man Thank You!

I thought there were only few like minded/open minded folks here as Myself and @Nazrethim

I miss alot of concepts cuz its too much to write. But that Idea has been thrown in there and is a great concept im glad You mentioned. I also had 2 other ideas, one would be to implement those current marks we have now with Shuriken leaving its bleed/slash procs. So when You tag enemies with shuriken (Blade Storm mode only) the enemy gets a mark above his head indicating a bleed proc, this proc acts the same7 ticks per 6 seconds (I hope thats right) each proc will summon a shadow clone of Ash that will act as the bleed proc. Each Tick Ashs clone will appear and strike indicating this enemy is marked. maybe we can instateleport to this enemy as long as there is a bleed mark up?

Id say only 3 clones marks may be active all together, each new enemy mark will cancel the last. Just an idea of mines

[AKKILLA]

On 6/21/2017 at 10:50 AM, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

But the spelling of your grammAr sucks...

I kinda ignored Your message due to the fact You are being a troll. Im not here to argue, debate is fine but argue, throw salt, shade, and negative comments will only force me to report You. I dont believe in that but please either go away if You dont like the thread or state ideas or solutions not your negative attitude which is unwanted.

 

[AKKILLA]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:05 AM, Nazrethim said:

Prove it

Yes, they are the kind of players who oppose any positive change to the frame for no justified reason. We Ash fans have been fighting them since the revisit. They tend to say bullsh like "Ash is fine!" "Ash is good" "BS is now balanced" etc etc.

Dunno about you, but I was rockin SMOKE SHADOW and regular Efficiency back in the old days of Blade Spam, and I hated Blade Spam, but recognized the problem wasn't the ability itself but people who abused the broken Efficiency stat. Do you know any of those who rely entirely on Max Efficiency? Those are the ones to blame for the nerfvisit.

Oh, and Limboom says "hi!"

What's wrong McFly? Chicken?

Afraid of proving my math is right?

This is why You and I see eye to eye! I main Smoke Shadow, never hated Blade Storm but never was a spammer. Im a moderate Blade Storm user only to proc arcane trickery and then refresh my stealth with smoke screen, i usually can go invis over 1 minute making Loki look like a SCRUB!

P.s. Look at my smoke screen duration, does it really need an increase in duration? 20 second arcane trickery+17 second smoke screen+10 second shadow step. What more do You want?

Edited June 22, 2017 by AKKILLA