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Drop Rates, Datamines, and Digital Extremes (DDD).


[DE]Rebecca
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3 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

This is the statement that started this whole conversation.

But where can I find range of melee weapons?

I ask what are you going to do with that stat?

And your reply is, "Adding range gives your weapon a longer reach!" Yeah, it does... everyone knows that. Why are you replying by say more range is mo better? Who said it wasnt?

I am asking why do you need to know the range stat of melee weapons. I didnt ask is range good. You dont need stats to know how pole arms get longer reach than anything else. Playing the game will show you this.

quote me saying 15% crit chance on EB is meh.

I have explained this several times i dont know why this is ignored.

I will repost an explanation from another post for ease of reading.


Im pretty sure my question is clear in what i am asking. Dont know what exactly you are taking from it to translate to me saying 15% crit is bad.Is it enough to mod for crit for a weapon with meh crit?I am asking if the EB bonus, the 15%, will give you a wider range of weapons to use for you min/maxers. Does it mean that you can equip a weapon with meh crit. A weapon with meh crit. A WEAPON WITH MEH CRIT.Is this the part that's confusing, somehow? I am asking if it's fine to use a weapon that doesnt have high crit but average (meh) crit.Do you understand now? Cause i dont it can make it any clearer.

 

when did i say anything about firerate?

 

Never said this.

So there is a way but it's too long so instead you go do things you are not supposed to.

where are you getting this from?

What im saying is how the events actually played out. All these events that end with datamining come from people playing first then people later datamining.

But the people that want to datamine conveniently ignore history and rewrite it to their desire.

How can i understand your viewpoint when you are replying to things i have never said?

never ask for people to explain min/maxing.

OH ffs get it in your damn head once and for all damn time eternal 

A melee weapons critical chance has zip nada nothing to do with exalted blades damn crit chance. 

I have explained this to you a total of 4 different times now. 

THIS  is what i mean with you not even understanding basic fact.

LETS make it damn @(*()$ clear this time and i mean toodler damn level of reading comprehension.

ALL EXALTED WEAPONS CRITICAL CHANCE IS 100% INDEPENDENT OF THE WEAPON THAT HOLDS THE MODS THAT  AFFECT IT!!

How the hell can that be so damn hard to understand. 

so you can bring a damn weapon that has 0% critical chance for all exalted blade care it has its own critical chance of 15% which can be increased toi 24% as true steel affect it while blood rush and body count does not. 

you can also take a weapon that has 30% critical hit chance like tekko and it wont do anything for exalted blade either. 

As for melee range it has all to do with limited mod space. 

 Lesion is one of the best status weapons around but its also the pole arm with the least range of all of them. it cant even come close to the max range of orthos prime so primed reach is waste on it. 

That is why we need to know rage on melee weapons. Because not all weapons in the same category have the same ranges. 

And yes you never said anything about fire rate because you dont even know how its handled by the game.

an chromatic blade excalibur at 180% power str has 100% status on exalted blade. 

without any attack speed mods it will take 30 seconds(or 33 corrosive procs) to strip a level 140 heavy gunner of all armor. 

Now all those attack speed mods are doing is increasing the fire rate of your melee weapon or exalted abilities. 

so lets add primed fury +55 attack speed

now it takes 19 second to strip that armor

but since we dont need blood rush etc we add berzerker as per my previous examples. 

that is a increase of another 75% at 3 stacks

now we are down to 11 seconds to strip armor of a level 140 heavy gunner. 

the reason i brought up fire rate is due to how status works in this game. 

something you do know if you would use the real numbers.

Besides its not like you would know that Chromatic Blade where at all affected by power strength if you just looked ingame. 

it just state it changes its damage type according to the energy color of Excalibur and add an 50% increased status chance. 

but once again its not even stated if its a multiplicative bonus or a additive. 

As for the chesa incident. I cant even put into words how ignorant your comment was. 

 

Edited by GhostLacuna
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29 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

<<stuff>>

 

I'd like to see PROOF you haven't got some private datamining going on. After all, your logic makes perfect sense if you have information others don't and thus are simply out to embrass people with "high number" in-game, See, I can do your sort of conspiracy theory as well. Go ahead, disprove it. Or I'll take it as given in future. Tick-tock, "private datamining only" side man!

Edited by DawnFalcon
brevity
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3 minutes ago, GhostLacuna said:

OH ffs get it in your damn head once and for all damn time eternal 

A melee weapons critical chance has zip nada nothing to do with exalted blades damn crit chance. 

I have explained this to you a total of 4 different times now. 

THIS  is what i mean with you not even understanding basic fact.

LETS make it damn @(*()&#036; clear this time and i meed toodler damn level of reading comprehension.

ALL EXALTED WEAPONS CRITICAL CHANCE IS 100% INDEPENDENT OF THE WEAPON THAT HOLDS THE MODS THAT  AFFECT IT!!

How the hell can that be so damn hard to understand. 

so you can bring a damn weapon that has 0% critical chance for all exalted blade care it has its own critical chance of 15% which can be increased toi 24% as true steel affect it while blood rush and body count does not. 

you can also take a weapon that was 30% critical hit chance like tekko and it wont do anything for exalted blade either. 

 

 

 

i acknowledge already that the weapon stats dont effect EB but for some reason you chose to make the claim that i said 15% crit is meh when i didnt. 

I asked that question when i didnt know, it was explained and it's all cool, but you went on to claim i said 15% crit is meh when i didnt. So the explanation has a timeline of how the events happened which include the first question when i didnt know weapon stats did mess with EB. 

Dont know why there's a hopping back and forth about it. 

Where we stand. 

I know now that weapon stats dont mess with EB. 

But i never said 15% crit is meh. 

Can we move on?

Quote

 

As for melee range it has all to do with limited mod space. 

 Lesion is one of the best status weapons around but its also the pole arm with the least range of all of them. it cant even come close to the max range of orthos prime so primed reach is waste on it. 

That is why we need to know rage on melee weapons. Because not all weapons in the same category have the same ranges. 

 

Finally we get some kinda of explanation. 

But that just brings another question, so because it's not as long as the longest weapons you dont care about getting a bigger range? Why? Doesnt the extra range it gets help at all? 

Quote

And yes you never said anything about fire rate because you dont even know how its handled by the game.

an chromatic blade excalibur at 180% power str has 100% status on exalted blade. 

without any attack speed mods it will take 30 seconds(or 33 corrosive procs) to strip a level 140 heavy gunner of all armor. 

Now all those attack speed mods are doing is increasing the fire rate of your melee weapon or exalted abilities. 

so lets add primed fury +55 attack speed

now it takes 19 second to strip that armor

but since we dont need blood rush etc we add berzerker as per my previous examples. 

that is a increase of another 75% at 3 stacks

now we are down to 11 seconds to strip armor of a level 140 heavy gunner. 

the reason i brought up fire rate is due to how status works in this game. 

something you do know if you would use the real numbers.

Besides its not like you would know that Chromatic Blade where at all affected by power strength if you just looked ingame. 

it just state it changes its damage type according to the energy color of Excalibur and add an 50% increased status chance. 

but once again its not even stated if its a multiplicative bonus or a additive. 

No, i didnt bring up firerate because that's not part of the conversation im having. You cant just randomly drop it and make claims about me on it when i never brought it up or it's the conversation im having. 

This is like me suddenly claiming you dont understand colors out of nowhere and continue on talking about it. 

You never brought up colors and this conversation has nothing to do about colors. 

Quote

As for the chesa incident. I cant even put into words how ignorant your comment was. 

Here is my proof that i posted already featuring Void Glitch that shows playtesting came first then datamine came later.

If you have info that states something opposite to this please post it. 

 

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So, your issue is it showed up in public the stuff you wanted as a dataminer to be secret then. Well. Ignoring you now, hypocrite. (And no, I don't care about post times etc, why should I?). Don't you quote my posts either!

My ignore count - 3, 2 from this thread.

Edited by DawnFalcon
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5 minutes ago, DawnFalcon said:

 (And no, I don't care about post times etc, why should I?)

Yes, why care about how the events actually happened?

It's better to push a made up story so what you want ends up happening, right?

Seriously, do not know why you are trying to accomplish here. 

 

Edited by Mak_Gohae
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Yes, dataminer, what do you care? You just want less informartion for the peons... your story and your glee at getting the data away must predominate. ... how many other players are you trying to drive away?

Onto your game of not accepting being ignored, you'll go on and on... (say, we know VG found issues...so...)

 

Anyway, back to talking to people who are being sensible  - GhostLacuna, there's no point. Trying to explain why being able to easily determine some stuff without hours of experimentation (often wrong, of course) is good, so players can set themselves goals in the game which don't involve everyone standing and slowly moving towards crates or shooting mobs for a few hours in the syncularum to try and determine one mechanic...

Edited by DawnFalcon
a sudden thought
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5 minutes ago, DawnFalcon said:

Onto your game of harassment now, you won't even accept being ignored, you'll go on and on...

Im replying to people that are talking to me. If you dont want to talk to me dont talk to me or about me. 

8 minutes ago, DawnFalcon said:

Trying to explain why being able to easily determine some stuff without hours of experimentation (often wrong, of course) is good

So this is it, right?

You want stuff now, forget playing the game and play testing. 

Wow. 

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6 hours ago, Operative_Shift said:

I'm not exactly SURE that you realize that you know who you're talking to. If you're referencing Rob, as in from agayguyplays, thats ME bud. And, personally I'm a bit too busy creating content and streaming to be dealing with this here. Check your facts! Kthnxbai!! <3 <3 XO XO

Such arrogance. Pfft

I'll be dead sure to not click one of your vid anymore, not even with a 10 miles stick.

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6 hours ago, Operative_Shift said:

I'm not exactly SURE that you realize that you know who you're talking to. If you're referencing Rob, as in from agayguyplays, thats ME bud. And, personally I'm a bit too busy creating content and streaming to be dealing with this here. Check your facts! Kthnxbai!! <3 <3 XO XO

"you know who you're talking to" ?

i believe he's talking to someone who plays warframe and makes youtube/twitch content. much like everyone else here.

don't let that "fame" swell your head. you'll end up saying things you regret, regardless of "who you are."

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)Shodian said:

Except it kinda is going off topic. The main point of this thread was about sharing information about drop rates and percentages and it's blown up into the legal actions of cease and desist, which is not of our business to be honest. b

well the way this thread is going i'd swear we had senior counselmen inside here. i'm about to pick one of them for consultation too.

legendary stuff.

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17 minutes ago, Church002 said:

"you know who you're talking to" ?

i believe he's talking to someone who plays warframe and makes youtube/twitch content. much like everyone else here.

don't let that "fame" swell your head. you'll end up saying things you regret, regardless of "who you are."

LOL I don't think you quite grasp exactly what happened.. This poster started talking to ANOTHER poster assuming that it was ME. It wasn't. So when I say "you know who you're talking to" I'm literally asking him, because he was referring to someone as ROB.. when that person wasn't me.

Please, get your facts straight before you start sending that kind of attitude my way.

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1 hour ago, Operative_Shift said:

LOL I don't think you quite grasp exactly what happened.. This poster started talking to ANOTHER poster assuming that it was ME. It wasn't. So when I say "you know who you're talking to" I'm literally asking him, because he was referring to someone as ROB.. when that person wasn't me.

Please, get your facts straight before you start sending that kind of attitude my way.

Spooky_shuck was clear of whom he was responding to exactly, which was sinisteran, and NOT you. He referenced you and your opinions on the datamining several times, but never referred to sinisteran as "Rob". In his response, he called sinisteran arrogant (see separation of quotes)

It is right there for everyone to read. Its not my facts; its there in black and white.

So I'm not sure what you're even upset about, since if you understood what he wrote, you'd clearly see he never called you anything of the sort. But the vibe I'm getting from you now, is that maybe he should have. You should consider what you're saying and how it sounds, especially now.

And by the way, I'm not sending anything your way. Never have and never will. I hope you get that straight.

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Only took a fire under your butt as a entity blindly looking away for 5 years to notice the horde of players who wanted accurate percentiles and less obfuscated info?

And now you're able to drum up a info WIP days before tennocon to placate the masses because oops, we made a scene?

I guess.... I'm appreciative of the effort, and extremely upset that this is what it took to finally bring us the data.

<EXTREMES>

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5 hours ago, Church002 said:

Spooky_shuck was clear of whom he was responding to exactly, which was sinisteran, and NOT you. He referenced you and your opinions on the datamining several times, but never referred to sinisteran as "Rob". In his response, he called sinisteran arrogant (see separation of quotes)

ROFLMAO, you may want to read it again. He attributed me to speaking on DE's intellectual property & copyright, things about Canadian Fair use, and quoting one of SINISTERAN's quotes and saying "What the hell Rob?"  Note, that in my video I did not speak on copyright or Canada's laws. He was not quoting any of my work.. so he sure as hell was NOT making reference to anything that I've posted.

Now.. I don't know what YOUR issue is, but clearly he DID think it was me, and my response was not one driven by arrogance but one asking if he knew that he was attributing that post to the wrong person. I mean.. feel free to hate me all you like, but make sure you're hating me for the right reasons. 

Edited by Operative_Shift
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11 minutes ago, Kedai said:

Well, all of this is going swell so far.

At this rate tennocon is going to turn into a press conference.

Dont worry, half of TennoCon audience dont even know who is Void_Glitch or about forum existence and read about this masquerade

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The Definition of Datamining from an ACTUAL Computer Engineer

I'll just leave this here for ya'll to stew on. 

And here's a shorter version, not from a Computer Engineer, but still covers the information about the ACTUAL definition of datamining. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB6XMEFPxA8

Kthnxbai!! <3 <3

Edited by Operative_Shift
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14 hours ago, Myscho said:

Dont worry, half of TennoCon audience dont even know who is Void_Glitch or about forum existence and read about this masquerade

You really underestimate Reddit's usage for WF, far more readers than this forum.

 

Operative_Shift - That's an attempt to try and narrow the definition in ways which don't apply. I routinely datamine private data provided to me under NDA, for instance. The reality is of course that datamining is the term routinely used for all sorts of analysis of game data no matter how gathered.


As for your view there that voice overlays, mouse macros, etc. are all hacking. - right, they cannot be safely used anymore with WF. Preach it! And keep preaching "STOP PLAYING".

Edited by DawnFalcon
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38 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

The Definition of Datamining from an ACTUAL Computer Engineer

I'll just leave this here for ya'll to stew on. 

And here's a shorter version, not from a Computer Engineer, but still covers the information about the ACTUAL definition of datamining. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB6XMEFPxA8

Kthnxbai!! <3 <3

What this person does not understand though is that there are different contexts in which different vocabulary makes statements work. For example, to a general audience, datamining is "the practice of examining large databases in order to generate new information". However, to the Warframe community, datamining is what this individual is trying to call "hacking". However, we cannot say that, because Digital Extremes' own Rebecca Ford described this individual's "hacking" as "datamining" in her own Reddit post:

"Then our unreleased quest scripts got datamined which we spoke on in this subreddit - we encouraged people not to read it and continued working on what we hoped would remain a surprise." (
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6in4t0/void_glitchs_repository_is_gone/dj7p9u0/)

Her "hacking" seems to be in reference to the Excalibur Umbra and Primed Streamline scandals, and as I said before, I was not involved in them. Let me make it clear that I do not have a full understanding regarding how to "inject" models into Warframe nor have I done it myself (since I do not know how to). I do not agree with injecting unobtainable items into video games to promote scams or controversy.

In fact, the majority of the files that were on the GitHub repository were not encrypted. They were parsed out of a file known as Packages.bin, a, while obfuscated file, was not entirely secure. It was not even encrypted or hashed. It was essentially plaintext for the information that was able to be pulled from it. Other files such as Languages.Bin, DropTables (actually an assortment of many files), or MissionDecks (actually an assortment of many files), files that were encrypted, were not "hacked" out (see how the terminology does not work?) of the game. They were extracted from the application sent to all of our computers (meaning that you could access it too, AGayGuyPlays), and a more accurate term to describe the process of making them readable would be "Reverse Engineering". Reverse Engineering is legal to perform in the United States of America (my country of residence). "Reverse engineering, also called back engineering, is the processes of extracting knowledge or design information from anything man-made and reproducing it or reproducing anything based on the extracted information. The process often involves disassembling something (a mechanical device, electronic component, computer program, or biological, chemical, or organic matter) and analyzing its components and workings in detail." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering) Here is an excerpt from this article:

"The reasons and goals for obtaining such information vary widely from everyday or socially beneficial actions, to criminal actions, depending upon the situation. Often no intellectual property rights are breached, such as when a person or business cannot recollect how something was done, or what something does, and needs to reverse engineer it to work it out for themselves. Reverse engineering is also beneficial in crime prevention, where suspected malware is reverse engineered to understand what it does, and how to detect and remove it, and to allow computers and devices to work together ("interoperate") and to allow saved files on obsolete systems to be used in newer systems."

"In the U.S., Section 103(f) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) (17 USC § 1201 (f) - Reverse Engineering) specifically states that it is legal to reverse engineer and circumvent the protection to achieve interoperability between computer programs (such as information transfer between applications).

Interopability is "the ability of computer systems or software to exchange and make use of information" in a computing context. Hmm. Exchanging and making use of information? You mean like publishing information to GitHub so the Warframe community can make use of it and exchange it with each other?

Apologies, Rob from AGayGuyPlays, but this individual is not a lawyer. All of your tweets that talk about people being "scum" for not agreeing with you and Digital Extremes and that they need to stop being "Google Search laywers"? Totally uncalled for. (Honestly, you should be removed from the Warframe Partners program just for that.) Besides the point, one of your (now) main lines of "proof that I am the guilty party" just seems so invalid, at least to me...

 

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Void, I'd repeat that while I'm entirely on your side, it'd be better from a legal standpoint if you moved on to working on games from friendlier companies.

(Rockstar realized T2's mistake on OpenIV and fixed it. DE? Nada)

Edited by DawnFalcon
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1 hour ago, Operative_Shift said:

The Definition of Datamining from an ACTUAL Computer Engineer

I'll just leave this here for ya'll to stew on. 

And here's a shorter version, not from a Computer Engineer, but still covers the information about the ACTUAL definition of datamining. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB6XMEFPxA8

Kthnxbai!! <3 <3

whatever you want to call it, the actions of Void_Glitch and other "data miners" of providing information, without which we wouldn't have such a comprehensive wiki, vital to the game, also act as a "fact checker" for DE's Warframe. 

don't be like a certain prez slandering ppl for showing the truth.

yes there are aspects that i agree should not be leaked but i think cooperation could be a better path of achieving both transparency and data security.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

What this person does not understand though is that there are different contexts in which different vocabulary makes statements work. For example, to a general audience, datamining is "the practice of examining large databases in order to generate new information".

Lol but we're not speaking about the GENERAL audience are we? We're not even speaking about lawyers. We're talking about a computer engineer that has first hand knowledge of what datamining is vs. what hacking is. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

In fact, the majority of the files that were on the GitHub repository were not encrypted. They were parsed out of a file known as Packages.bin, a, while obfuscated file, was not entirely secure.

A... majority? So not the entirety.. which means that SOME of it was encrypted.  and you admit that the files were obfuscated which by definition means "to render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible". So basically it was hidden, and you went digging for it. Because when you say things like "not entirely secure" that could mean a lot.. a persons house who's windows aren't barred could be considered "not entirely secure". 

3 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

They were extracted from the application sent to all of our computers (meaning that you could access it too, AGayGuyPlays)

Lol, well with the right tools I could also break into a house with no bars on the windows couldn't I?  

3 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

Apologies, Rob from AGayGuyPlays, but this individual is not a lawyer.

You're right, he's not. Hes a computer engineer LOL, far more qualified to speak on the subject than a laywer is. 

3 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

one of your (now) main lines of "proof that I am the guilty party" just seems so invalid, at least to me...

Lol, I think I'll stick to the expert who's not a part of the violating party (who's admitted to having ties to the hacker/s in question) to determine what's right and wrong. Regardless, it seems to me that you determined you were guilty ages ago.

So.. I mean if you feel like continuing to mislead the public by trying to advertise what you did as something it isnt.. feel free. But at the end of the day..

you never fought Activision for taking down your stuff.. so I guess we now know why lol

Edited by Operative_Shift
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2 hours ago, ..atom.. said:

whatever you want to call it, the actions of Void_Glitch and other "data miners" of providing information, without which we wouldn't have such a comprehensive wiki, vital to the game, also act as a "fact checker" for DE's Warframe. 

don't be like a certain prez slandering ppl for showing the truth.

yes there are aspects that i agree should not be leaked but i think cooperation could be a better path of achieving both transparency and data security.

I actually think about it this way.. If Void hadn't been around, the community would've been in an uproar for information straight out of the gate, and pressed DE for a resource like this A LOT sooner. Had this resource NOT been available to us, for the sake of transparency (and also Canadian guilt lol) they would've had no choice but to create the site for us themselves several years ago. 

Let's face it, both DE and the community used Void as a crutch. We should've been pressing the entire time the "datamines" were going on for an IN GAME resource, rather than having to seek things outside of game. 

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16 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

-snip-

All of this is nonsense, and you know it. These forums are a place where respect matters, and you're not showing any.

Let's play the role of sanitation engineer and try to break it down.

18 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

Lol but we're not speaking about the GENERAL audience are we? We're not even speaking about lawyers. We're talking about a computer engineer that has first hand knowledge of what datamining is vs. what hacking is.

Your claimed credentials are not relevant here, I'm afraid. You begin your argument by refusing a level playing field: the other party's word is not to be trusted, but yours is? No. You're not arguing in good faith, and clearly the folks around here are too smart to give any credence to your thinking past this point.

You're not arguing in good faith, sir. This is a pattern.

21 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

A... majority? So not the entirety.. which means that SOME of it was encrypted.  and you admit that the files were obfuscated which by definition means "to render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible". So basically it was hidden, and you went digging for it. Because when you say things like "not entirely secure" that could mean a lot.. a persons house who's windows aren't barred could be considered "not entirely secure".

You have just finished claiming computer engineering credentials. Would you also like to claim legal credentials before you proceed further with this line of reasoning? I'd hope for your sake that you can, because it seems that you lack a thorough understanding of how the law regarding these matters is interpreted and applied.

The level of encryption is not important. The activities in question are protected regardless of the level of obfuscation present. This is not in any way legally syllogistic with breaking into someone's home. You are drawing a fallacious comparison and appealing to emotion. If you wish to discuss this on moral ground, we could try that. On legal ground, your argument doesn't work.

26 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

Lol, well with the right tools I could also break into a house with no bars on the windows couldn't I?  

This is irrelevant for the same reason as the previous bit; datamining and reverse engineering are not the same thing as breaking and entering. The law holds them to be fundamentally different, and you are misleading people with this analogy.

29 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

You're right, he's not. Hes a computer engineer LOL, far more qualified to speak on the subject than a laywer is. 

Wrong again. Unless you wish to reopen the question of the nature of the activities in question, we're only discussing the legality of those activities. That is not a question for a computer engineer. In a legal matter, a computer engineer might be called upon as an expert witness, but only for the purpose of informing a lawyer's argument.

34 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

Lol, I think I'll stick to the expert who's not a part of the violating party (who's admitted to having ties to the hacker/s in question) to determine what's right and wrong. Regardless, it seems to me that you determined you were guilty ages ago.

To which expert might you be referring, I wonder? If you wish to assert that you are a computer engineering expert, you have provided no proof of that. If you wish to assert that you are a legal expert, you have ruined your chances of that by invoking baseless comparisons and assuming the guilt of another party.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything here on which to rest a credible argument.

The bottom two images you posted do nothing for you, because there is no evidence of any sort of incriminating or illegal activity in either.

I'm disappointed that this is the sort of behavior we're getting from a Warframe Partner.

 

 

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