Drop Rates, Datamines, and Digital Extremes (DDD).

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

4 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

@(PS4)VoiD_Glitch You should acknowledge and own up to your wrong doings, and stop painting yourself as this infallible victim, with the 'woe is me' act. The people pretending you're infallible need to stop as well. Sure, you posted some very helpful information like drop rates + drop locations to help the community, but you also posted stuff you have no business posting because it helped no one.

Remember that time you decided to datamine and post the entire original script for The War Within? You know, the one with Umbra in it? Now from what i recall, that leak you put out there is what prompted a huge delay on the quest, as well as several rewrites to the script. Guess who got burned the most and stressed out by the delay, while someone nonchalantly boasted in Discord about not being sorry -- DE and the community. Those that were looking forward to the quest in a timely manner are the ones that suffered.

So yeah, maybe acknowledge that you're in the wrong for posting certain information, tampering with the client(even if it is helpful to an extent), and affecting some people within the community negatively with what you do. A little common sense and some humbling goes a long way.

I'm not for the leaks, but the drop rates are something that has been helpful in knowing whether or not something is worth farming. You crucify him for being transparent, while [DE] could have been insecure enough to allow more personal information out. Look, im not goimg to read a leaked quest, and if you do: you just have no self control, but, you cant hammer a scapegoat imto the ground when a company that gets our money is careless enough with their own information that they have let this happen multiple times.

We have to look and see that beyond the client being mined, other more sensitive areas could carelessly be left out for amyome to get a hold on. You don't upload something you don't want known about to the client, especially with it being so easily mined.

[Tesseract7777]

4 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

That would make sense if DE was on the fence about punishing him and haven't acted. Seeing how they already have done something as punishment, it would be pointless for me to make an attempt like that, right?

I simply do not like how people blindly vouch for a guy who was clearly in the wrong, all while he claims to be innocent and not responsible for things he did or influenced directly.

All DE really needs is proof that he broke their agreements that are detailed in the Terms and EULA to issue a ban or punishment. He agreed to it like everyone else that is playing Warframe, so he is subject to it like everyone else, if he wants to enjoy Warframe's content.

Again, i appreciated the drop rates and drop locations he provided. However, that script leak and other things that didn't bring about anything good, combined with his unapologetic attitude in Discord+elsewhere, does not make me feel sorry for him in the slightest.

Agreed. I think the drop chances and tables were a good thing. And I appreciated it, and I think it was a good thing he posted those. I am glad he did because eventually DE is now doing it themselves, which is good for transparency, it kept the pressure up. But, that said. 

I don't want people to think I am saying Void is bad guy... he's not. But I think this whole "he's a perfectly innocent victim" shtick is getting really old and its really dishonest. How can people expect DE to have an honest public dialogue with Void about this when people are going with this "he's just an innocent kid you unfairly punished when he did nothing wrong, etc, etc.". 

Publishing languages was unnecessary, and he knew that. Posting the script was WAY over the top. He knew that too. Didn't care. Doesn't make him evil, but it does mean he did the wrong thing when he did those particular things. 

As far as I see it, if void hadn't been datamining, someone else would have. And maybe this wouldn't have come to a head if the someone else had been more responsible and not constantly posted unnecessary things like the languages.bin. Voids recklessness in what he posted eventually forced DE's hand when they didn't want it to be forced. I firmly believe if he had only been publishing drop tables and drop chances, that they never would have come down on him, and we wouldn't have been having this conversation at all. 

It's just silly to me. People cannot expect an honest dialogue with them + void and DE when they won't be honest with DE from their own end to start with. If they can't admit that void maybe wasn't in the right to post some of the things he did, and if he himself would admit it, maybe we could get started on a real dialogue. But when he just comes in here playing the victim, when they didn't even legally punish him in any way, they just gave him a legal order to stop what he was doing... well, it just looks ridiculous and snowflakey. If someone wants to have a public dialogue with DE, they can't play upset victim and expect DE to cooperate with them publicly. 

I'm sure some will read this and be mad, but I really want you to stop and think. Does constantly calling DE dishonest help anything? Do you think saying he is an innocent victim and not even trying to understand DE's perspective going to get you anywhere with them? Do you think it makes sense to say they did this just to punish him for publishing drop tables, when they let him get away with it for years until their script was spoiled? 

Again, I appreciate what he did. I think void is a good guy, but I think he went a little too far, not malicious, just a little bit reckless. He didn't mean ill, but he made some mistakes posting things he shouldn't have/didn't really need to. If people could just admit he is a great guy who made a few mistakes overall, I think we could get somewhere with this talking to DE about it. Right now making him out to be saint void glitch isn't helping get anywhere with DE. 

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[(PSN)abbacephas]

5 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

@(PS4)VoiD_Glitch You should acknowledge and own up to your wrong doings, and stop painting yourself as this infallible victim, with the 'woe is me' act. The people pretending you're infallible need to stop as well. Sure, you posted some very helpful information like drop rates + drop locations to help the community, but you also posted stuff you have no business posting because it helped no one.

Remember that time you decided to datamine and post the entire original script for The War Within? You know, the one with Umbra in it? Now from what i recall, that leak you put out there is what prompted a huge delay on the quest, as well as several rewrites to the script. Guess who got burned the most and stressed out by the delay, while someone nonchalantly boasted in Discord about not being sorry -- DE and the community. Those that were looking forward to the quest in a timely manner are the ones that suffered.

So yeah, maybe acknowledge that you're in the wrong for posting certain information, tampering with the client(even if it is helpful to an extent), and affecting some people within the community negatively with what you do. A little common sense and some humbling goes a long way.

 

7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Agreed. I think the drop chances and tables were a good thing. And I appreciated it, and I think it was a good thing he posted those. I am glad he did because eventually DE is now doing it themselves, which is good for transparency, it kept the pressure up. But, that said. 

I don't want people to think I am saying Void is bad guy... he's not. But I think this whole "he's a perfectly innocent victim" shtick is getting really old and its really dishonest. How can people expect DE to have an honest public dialogue with Void about this when people are going with this "he's just an innocent kid you unfairly punished when he did nothing wrong, etc, etc.". 

Publishing languages was unnecessary, and he knew that. Posting the script was WAY over the top. He knew that too. Didn't care. Doesn't make him evil, but it does mean he did the wrong thing when he did those particular things. 

As far as I see it, if void hadn't been datamining, someone else would have. And maybe this wouldn't have come to a head if the someone else had been more responsible and not constantly posted unnecessary things like the languages.bin. Voids recklessness in what he posted eventually forced DE's hand when they didn't want it to be forced. I firmly believe if he had only been publishing drop tables and drop chances, that they never would have come down on him, and we wouldn't have been having this conversation at all. 

It's just silly to me. People cannot expect an honest dialogue with them + void and DE when they won't be honest with DE from their own end to start with. If they can't admit that void maybe wasn't in the right to post some of the things he did, and if he himself would admit it, maybe we could get started on a real dialogue. But when he just comes in here playing the victim, when they didn't even legally punish him in any way, they just gave him a legal order to stop what he was doing... well, it just looks ridiculous and snowflakey. If someone wants to have a public dialogue with DE, they can't play upset victim and expect DE to cooperate with them publicly. 

I'm sure some will read this and be mad, but I really want you to stop and think. Does constantly calling DE dishonest help anything? Do you think saying he is an innocent victim and not even trying to understand DE's perspective going to get you anywhere with them? Do you think it makes sense to say they did this just to punish him for publishing drop tables, when they let him get away with it for years until their script was spoiled? 

Again, I appreciate what he did. I think void is a good guy, but I think he went a little too far, not malicious, just a little bit reckless. He didn't mean ill, but he made some mistakes posting things he shouldn't have/didn't really need to. If people could just admit he is a great guy who made a few mistakes overall, I think we could get somewhere with this talking to DE about it. Right now making him out to be saint void glitch isn't helping get anywhere with DE. 

 

Wisdom!

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Agreed. I think the drop chances and tables were a good thing. And I appreciated it, and I think it was a good thing he posted those. I am glad he did because eventually DE is now doing it themselves, which is good for transparency, it kept the pressure up. But, that said. 

I don't want people to think I am saying Void is bad guy... he's not. But I think this whole "he's a perfectly innocent victim" shtick is getting really old and its really dishonest. How can people expect DE to have an honest public dialogue with Void about this when people are going with this "he's just an innocent kid you unfairly punished when he did nothing wrong, etc, etc.". 

Publishing languages was unnecessary, and he knew that. Posting the script was WAY over the top. He knew that too. Didn't care. Doesn't make him evil, but it does mean he did the wrong thing when he did those particular things. 

As far as I see it, if void hadn't been datamining, someone else would have. And maybe this wouldn't have come to a head if the someone else had been more responsible and not constantly posted unnecessary things like the languages.bin. Voids recklessness in what he posted eventually forced DE's hand when they didn't want it to be forced. I firmly believe if he had only been publishing drop tables and drop chances, that they never would have come down on him, and we wouldn't have been having this conversation at all. 

It's just silly to me. People cannot expect an honest dialogue with them + void and DE when they won't be honest with DE from their own end to start with. If they can't admit that void maybe wasn't in the right to post some of the things he did, and if he himself would admit it, maybe we could get started on a real dialogue. But when he just comes in here playing the victim, when they didn't even legally punish him in any way, they just gave him a legal order to stop what he was doing... well, it just looks ridiculous and snowflakey. If someone wants to have a public dialogue with DE, they can't play upset victim and expect DE to cooperate with them publicly. 

I'm sure some will read this and be mad, but I really want you to stop and think. Does constantly calling DE dishonest help anything? Do you think saying he is an innocent victim and not even trying to understand DE's perspective going to get you anywhere with them? Do you think it makes sense to say they did this just to punish him for publishing drop tables, when they let him get away with it for years until their script was spoiled? 

Again, I appreciate what he did. I think void is a good guy, but I think he went a little too far, not malicious, just a little bit reckless. He didn't mean ill, but he made some mistakes posting things he shouldn't have/didn't really need to. If people could just admit he is a great guy who made a few mistakes overall, I think we could get somewhere with this talking to DE about it. Right now making him out to be saint void glitch isn't helping get anywhere with DE. 

 

I'm not calling DE dishonest. They are a business, they have means and are after an end. And i wouldn't say Void is innocent. Just like businesses have dishonest techniques, customers have dishonest techniques to keep them in check. Spoilers are lame. Don't look at them. I agree with you, if it hadn't been done, they wouldnt be becoming more tramsparent. We have to find new ways to keep them in check now. An order to stop is good, they could have retaliated for real. At least we know that they half understand the position of their players when it comes to these things.

[PookieNumnums]

On 6/28/2017 at 8:27 AM, EmptyDevil said:

@(PS4)VoiD_Glitch You should acknowledge and own up to your wrong doings, and stop painting yourself as this infallible victim, with the 'woe is me' act. The people pretending you're infallible need to stop as well. Sure, you posted some very helpful information like drop rates + drop locations to help the community, but you also posted stuff you have no business posting because it helped no one.

Remember that time you decided to datamine and post the entire original script for The War Within? You know, the one with Umbra in it? Now from what i recall, that leak you put out there is what prompted a huge delay on the quest, as well as several rewrites to the script. Guess who got burned the most and stressed out by the delay, while someone nonchalantly boasted in Discord about not being sorry -- DE and the community. Those that were looking forward to the quest in a timely manner are the ones that suffered.

So yeah, maybe acknowledge that you're in the wrong for posting certain information, tampering with the client(even if it is helpful to an extent), and affecting some people within the community negatively with what you do. A little common sense and some humbling goes a long way.

im glad he posted the tww stuff. 

Spoiler

 

it likely was part of the reason the tww got reworked (and subsequently delayed) and also probably one of the reasons that umbra will likely not be simply a frame with no operator as the script v1.0 suggested, and likely why its getting its own quest for its introduction rather than being teased in something that was imo very underwhelming.

 

if that sorta stuff causes them to get better writers involved then so be it. 

 

yet, i will add that i do feel for the devs, no one wants their surprises ruined .... however; why are they putting stuff in the game info that does not need to be in there and was subject to premature ... uh... exposure. that just seems like they were either fishing for opinions and ideas or not thinking very clearly. 

 

i just hope that the harrow quest has as good of a storyline as glast gambit and octavias anthem and silver grove. :D

 

 

 

 

give unto the void.... glitch. XD

[DawnFalcon]

8 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

@(PS4)VoiD_Glitch You should acknowledge and own up to your wrong doings

 

If they'd done it THEN, you might have a point. They didn't.

And you're saying legal action can be done over ToS breaches - meaning youtube videos, mouse macros, discord overlays, warframe.market, etc.

People should stop making/using those, right.

[atom]

8 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

That would make sense if DE was on the fence about punishing him and haven't acted. Seeing how they already have done something as punishment, it would be pointless for me to make an attempt like that, right?

I simply do not like how people blindly vouch for a guy who was clearly in the wrong, all while he claims to be innocent and not responsible for things he did or influenced directly.

All DE really needs is proof that he broke their agreements that are detailed in the Terms and EULA to issue a ban or punishment. He agreed to it like everyone else that is playing Warframe, so he is subject to it like everyone else, if he wants to enjoy Warframe's content.

Again, i appreciated the drop rates and drop locations he provided. However, that script leak and other things that didn't bring about anything good, combined with his unapologetic attitude in Discord+elsewhere, does not make me feel sorry for him in the slightest.

no one is blindly vouching here. nobody is 100% a saint we all apparently do questionable things at one point or another, DE as well.

afaik he's already punished/banned from playing the game for breaking the TOS.

the argument is his actions in the end were beneficial to the game and community (drop rates, weapon stats). i can argue the TWW script leak caused DE to rewrite a better version in the end. i can argue leaked pics built hype.

having said that i also believe leaking artwork/scripts without DE's consent was wrong. however threatening legal action was a bit too much imho and i think it should only be used as a last resort after exhausting other means of communication and opportunities for cooperation which didn't happen.

[Tesseract7777]

2 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

-snip-

Cannot believe three people liked this. They have a right to keep their intellectual property secure. You are saying it is okay because you are glad their story got ruined so they would have to make it differently? Just... wow. 

And you expect DE to care at all what you or anyone who agrees with you have to say? Good luck convincing them with that attitude -- Oh the privacy of your hard work is meaningless, because we would rather critique your story and force you to make it better on our terms, before you've even released that. Imagine having that attitude about an upcoming Marvel movie or game of thrones book? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? 

Also, I never read the leaked script. Now I know stuff that could spoil stuff for the future Umbra quest that I blissfully wanted to remain unaware of. And even if they have changed the story now, likely elements from that script will still make it into the final story, and that datamined information is not supposed to be on the forums. Why did you have to spoil it for those of us who had avoided all of that? What possible need did you have to post that? 

You are founder and should know better than that. Not cool. Why would you do that? For giggles? 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[tmaxxcar]

If I may offer a suggestion:

 

The Relics and Mods currently have the drop locations listed in the codex.  It may be easiest to simply add the drop rotation and drop rate here.  For example;

When looking at the Axi A1 relic its drop sources are as follows: 

Sedna: Amarna, Berehynia, Hydron, Selkie

I would suggest adding the above rotation and rate as such:

Sedna: Amarna : Rotation C - 12%*; Berehynia: Rotation A - 2%*, Rotation B - 2.5%*; Hydron: Rotation B - 8%*, Rotation C - 12%*; Selkie: Rotation C - 14%*

 

Keep in mind, that would be my first iteration, just to get the information out to players and into the game.  The next iteration could see this information available in the API, as JSON and any other formats the API is currently in, while also displaying the in-game data in the codex as a table.  For the next iteration you could add an in-game option to display the loot {Relics, Mods} on the star-chart when a player hovers over a node.  

 

If you do decide to add this type of filter to the Options, then you can continue to add filters such as by relic age, and even mod rarity.  Although this would be in future updates, so there isn't really that much pressure to add any of these changes past the addition of the drop rate and rotation in which you can obtain it.

*Percentile rates made up for proof-of-concept.

[Ramrr]

@[DE]Rebecca Now that sortie drop table got changed again, can we get drop chances of each sortie reward?

I'd like to update my datasheets as fast as possible.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Ramrr

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Cannot believe three people liked this. They have a right to keep their intellectual property secure. You are saying it is okay because you are glad their story got ruined so they would have to make it differently? Just... wow. 

And you expect DE to care at all what you or anyone who agrees with you have to say? Good luck convincing them with that attitude -- Oh the privacy of your hard work is meaningless, because we would rather critique your story and force you to make it better on our terms, before you've even released that. Imagine having that attitude about an upcoming Marvel movie or game of thrones book? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? 

Also, I never read the leaked script. Now I know stuff that could spoil stuff for the future Umbra quest that I blissfully wanted to remain unaware of. And even if they have changed the story now, likely elements from that script will still make it into the final story, and that datamined information is not supposed to be on the forums. Why did you have to spoil it for those of us who had avoided all of that? What possible need did you have to post that? 

You are founder and should know better than that. Not cool. Why would you do that? For giggles? 

You have over 5500 posts and have never seen an Umbra leak on the forums? Right. Probably never drank any water or breathed any air either.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

So, how i should now know a riven disposition of a melee?

You even mention numbers in patchnotes, lol. I just wanna a simple table with all weapons.

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

So, how i should now know a riven disposition of a melee?

You even mention numbers in patchnotes, lol. I just wanna a simple table with all weapons.

While its not the ideal solution, it might help in the meantime, if you have a riven for a weapon type that is still veiled, go to the mod screen for that weapon and the disposition should be displayed. If you don't have an veiled riven or a unveiled riven for that weapon type, you can't see the disposition normally.

[Tesseract7777]

11 hours ago, Ultimate_Vault_Hunter said:

You have over 5500 posts and have never seen an Umbra leak on the forums? Right. Probably never drank any water or breathed any air either.

Yes, actually. And I prided myself on it. I don't read the Umbra megathread really, stay away from it. And I know where in Reddit to stay away from. 

Spoilers, especially those obtained through datamining, are not allowed on the forums. It should not be considered unreasonable to expect the forums to be kept clear of them, and for those who know better to avoid posting such. 

[Snake]

On 6/22/2017 at 2:59 PM, Buldozers said:

You should have provided this info long ago. Codex never showed the drop chances, only rarity and that's why we loved the dataminers.

Good thing they are working on it now. Right? After all DE has been working on lots of Content, Quests, Many UI Changes, Bugs ext over the years. The list could go on. All great stuff I care more about then drop rates.

 

-_____-

Many free to play games out there care about this stuff too but I found NONE as intimately connected to the community as WARFRAME.

-- I like being surprised by what they come up with.

-- Ive been playing the game a long time - Longer then any other game out there. It's nice to see drop rates YES - Thanks. 

It's not my job to show the sheep which pasture to go into. I did not need to go into some random website to find Drop rates; I just needed to know where to find Drop rates in game files. I never really used it much either because I like to play the game more then digging through code. DE is going to make it easier. Sweet!

 

Haven't they shown us already that it's OK to hold them accountable? "even though this is a free to play game".

-- I believe you, like many others just want to have the gratification that you said something and somebody else said something about what you said.

I'm sure DE appreciates how passionate the Community is about these things and I definitely understand both sides.

My point here after all this rambling is;

Let them respond and stop rubbing it in their face. They are not the evil Empire.

Edited June 30, 2017 by 5nak3Doctor

[(XBOX)x Deathcraft x]

 a value proposition of chance and time investment, <- This is why I liked the old void system,  not the go hear farm relic, now I need traces, & still it's a random chance. Before it was, get keys then farm till you just can't hold out anymore.

[Kryptonex-EN-]

This information should have been available to users a long time ago.

"But a visual guide isn't as good as numbers; datamining provided those. That's something we lived with and at some times appreciated..."

You knew dataminers existed and took their work to your advantage DE, now that something that shouldn't have happened, happened, and the community didn't respond well to your actions, you hurry to build your own "numbers" to include in the game when this crucial feature should have been implemented long ago. In my opinion, this gives you no right to put the blame on datamining which helped your players including me.

Otherwise, I'm happy and grateful for the ongoing work into the issue, just hope you don't put so much blame on datamining and that it doesn't take too long to add this feature since the unvaulting of mag and rhino is due in a month.

[NovusNova]

The DE drop rates table is already out and can be found here: