Drop Rates, Datamines, and Digital Extremes (DDD).

[Caramello]

Do the drop table website thingy before melee rivens release, not some months after their prices start to die down.

Thanks.

[Archwizard]

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

If you look at a little game like, oh, World of Warcraft, they maintain a genial relationship with dataminers. Websites like Wowhead and MMO-Champion frequently datamine and discuss information on new releases early on during test phases, and base their business models on disseminating information on stats, locations and drop rates to players. Not only does this hype upcoming content, but it adds to the feedback process - people can see values that may be too strong or weak, and this allows for discussion of adjustments before game-breaking changes are added to the live game. It also allows players to start crafting builds and strategy guides before they get their hands on new content.

(Can't even argue that WoW is a bigger numbers game than Warframe, since we're talking about drop rates and ability/alt-fire stats here.)

And yes, frequently they even datamine things like dialogue and minor spoilers. People still play the content for themselves, and just as frequently, Blizzard just loads in placeholders on massive spoilers until their scripts are finished.

I added a little bit extra to my post on the front page, because I feel this needs to be said.

[notlamprey]

I'm not ashamed to show a little of my naked desktop if it means backing up an honest community member's claims. Posts are definitely being deleted, and I think it's completely unnecessary.. You are attempting to smooth things over now at great cost to your ability to manage them later. Please reconsider this.

[Tyrhal]

 Personally, I side with Dataminers. I do not disregard DE's actions completely, but as difficult as this is, it is difficult to know how exactly to handle such a situation. What I would have liked? Finding and punishing the hacker(s), not threatening people with legal action.

 

Of course we're not entitled to numbers and exact percentages. But it is nice to see that work is being done on that. But it isn't just about drop rates and percentages.

[yingji]

8 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

My only goal was to upload any information that I could retrieve in a readable and useful format. It was an effort to assist the community. That was my highest priority. All Digital Extremes had to do was ask me to take something down (it seems like they specifically wanted Languages.bin down), prior to a legal letter, and it could have been as simple as that. I do not appreciate being the involved in a legal matter that should not even involve me in the first place.

Take some comfort from the levels of support you see primarily on reddit and if it was me I would lawyer up immediately.

Also I would stop posting until I had seen a lawyer because I would personally not trust a company that sends seemingly dubious threats to minors.

[Hixlysss]

6 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

My only goal was to upload any information that I could retrieve in a readable and useful format. It was an effort to assist the community. That was my highest priority. All Digital Extremes had to do was ask me to take something down (it seems like they specifically wanted Languages.bin down), prior to a legal letter, and it could have been as simple as that. I do not appreciate being the involved in a legal matter that should not even involve me in the first place.

Considering the, honestly, massive support you are getting over this, even if you do face legal matters, (how ever it is immensely unlikely you will) that you would be given the massive support of the community to back you as well as funds for legal matters. But, again, highly unlikely, especially with DE saying "Hey, we are planning on releasing this information anyway!" So if you simply release the information that they plan on releasing you should very much be in the clear, we just need confirmation from DE and/or the legal team, preferably from DE themselves.

[Kraagesh]

To be hones I am really really disappointed with how you guys at DE handled the situation...

Instead of trying to talk to them and asking him not to publish spoilers you go straight to lawyers and send a cease&desists for something that , to my limited knowledge, is not illegal...

The way you handled all of this killed all my excitement for the next update and all things Tennocon and made me regret buying Platinum earlier this week.

I basically lost all trust and goodwill towards your company so yeah... Good Luck earning that back.

[Loswaith]

11 minutes ago, Kraagesh said:

Instead of trying to talk to Void_Glitch and asking him not to publish spoilers you go straight to lawyers and send a cease&desists for something that , to my limited knowledge, is not illegal...

It is rather unlikely glitch was the only one sent one of these.

[sulusdacor]

i must say the statements reads really bad. it is presented like you/DE did something amazing new that we the players must be eternaly grateful to get or be part off. you are forced to do this step and now all problems are solved and all is fine. i'm sure the intention behind all that is a good one and that is not intended, but it sheds a really dark light...

-

the free to play model is/has always been the decision between time and money (or time and premium currency). this is nothing new. you did not invent it, revolutionize it, did something new or special. you do the balance well, thats why players stay. why is this presented like the next best thing since the invention of the wheel? the same goes for colored droptables to indicate rarety?

another thing is sorties are in the game for a while, the colors came into them after how long? relic rarity came into the game after how much time? i'm sorry to say this, but these are basic quality of life things for drops. other games have items rarity by colors for example. these things ship on release in those games. we get them after month of waiting and asking for it. (with no response to the request like "we are working on these things". so we dont even know if these things come to the game at all.) now you want the players to pad you on the back that these are actually ingame?

then comes the reddit datamine thing... you play it like taking a stance on these issues and telling a person to stop this would magiclly solve all these issues. it will not. people that did those things to abuse the gamesystem will probably still do so. they are mostlikely able to look into your gamefiles themselfs and find the stuff they need to do their shady buisness. the other thing is by you taking a stance to make this basiclly a "no go", it will probably attact more people of questionable moral compass. so from that angle it hardly seems like the good reaction on your side. the other thing is if systems/security is not up to date and there are leaks that should be fixed, would these not be used by these hackers anyway and would not be the first and foremost goal to fix those anyway. so i really do not see how your stance on datamine helps in that regard.

on the person of void glitch. i dont know what he did or didnt do. he seemed to publish your files for each update over years. so he seems like a fan of your game. if he would have any intention to hurt your company, why would he continue to due so over such a long time. makes no sense to me. but either way, why did/do you not hire the guy? invite him to tennocon. wine and dine him so to speak. he knew what he was doing so he is obviously skilled. he could still offer his dropchances tables. give him a plattform. he just would get paid for it. you could potentially mange some information you do not want players to get early. and at last it would be such good positive publicity for your company. why is the first solution always legal. imagine the good press headlines you could have gotten out of this. "gaming company hires dataminer to solve leaking issues". and can not think of any gaming company that did such thing. it would have been one of the best things that could even happen to you/DE. he could have been become your best employee. overall the couse of action seems very strange and missguided by fear and anger from an outside perspective.

then to the spoiler things. i do not get why this is such an issue. people just do not need to click on the forumtopic or video that are titled in that way or speculating on the next thing. if they do it is their problem - not yours. it really seems to be a big deal to you guys at DE more so then the playerbase itself. i do not understand why and yes you want to surprise us, but gues what players will measure you on the system and the gameplay aspect way more. since these stay in the game, these we use dialy/weekly. the surprise we have once. if the new things you implement are well done/expertly done/perfectly done. gues what DE no one cares if it was leaked early. if we knew before hand it is a stick and a stone, we dont care if you show us after that we can make fire with these. if you out do yourself on a gamemechanic or well designed quest or weapon or frame we will be way more surprised and happy then any spoiler that says if or if not we get umbra soon or in five years. what is the big deal with these?

the other point as far as i understand the datamine spoiler thing you yourself put the files content in the game on our pc in the files in the first place. so why in the world would you blame anyone else for this? yes you want to reduce download on future updates, which admiditly is a good thing, but if the leaks/spoiler bother you guys so much or you think it is such a bug issue, then simply do not put stuff in early. let us download the big files. problem solved. simply as that. the reason this issue occurs or even can occur in the first place is on your end. so why why would you shift the blame for that. i simply do not understand this issue.

the other thing about the statement is why is this industry standard pushed so much? since when do you guys orient yourself on that. if we your players would hold yourself to that we would have all left. basic QoL changes take forever. a lot of systems are borken forever. basic information is missing in the game. explanations are missing. the new player experience is bad and things done there are a drop in the desert. so why why would you guys bring that up. i do not get it. another thing with that is, people like you/DE because you do not handle/do things like other games. your game is special in a way that: you do a dev stream every 14 days. you do other streams like primetime, xbox, ps4. you do great community work. this is not and by no means an industry practice. people like warframe because it is doing things different.

into that ties that warframe is a grindbased game with lots rng layers adding to that grind. meaning you grind and have rng on top of that. did you get the relic you want. did your lua room even spawn. did stalker spawn. did you get 3 or 30 void traces. the game consitst basiclly only of grind and rng. if you stick by it for a while. so it is different from other games in that regard. players do not want to know the chances droprates of things so bad, if there is other stuff to do and if there is not multiple rng involved. in warframe it is and therefore there is a wish/desire to know those things.

to that comes over they years you tolerated the datamining and the publishing of those dropchances. so you yourself as a company cultivated the behaviour, with your stance or non stance on that issue, how you handle letting players know dropchanes. you decided to let them know. this became a standard and common practice for your game. players get used to this and on the other end expect this practice in the future. so to look for an example where this is " strongly or exhaustively exhibited elsewhere in the industry" look no further then the last few years of your game development. you set your trackrecord and standard yourself. can you change it yes for sure, but i hope you do not since the special kind of game warframe is with grind and rng. it needs thid transperency to let players know "hey you just having bad luck. we treat you equal to anyone else". it s big appeal of the game wether you realize that or not. since that in the end is what makes warframe special in a big part. and if you change it do not be surprised if players are unhappy. you made the bed in the first place ;)

the last thing is the proposed website thing. overall i'm not sure how i feel about this one. i can understand that this solves some issues. but the dropchances and stats are only a small part of the datamining so it will only solve these issues. the other thing is that even if you did not like what void glitch did, he was an independent party basiclly checking up on you. and i mean that in the best way. if a dropchance was messed up that would come out. no one could say to him "hey you just working for DE we dont believe your info etc". in a way i think this was a good thing, since you got a honest "critic" to held you accountible in some way. the community somewhat was on board with that. most knew datamining is not commonly tolerated in most games. this is a powerful thing to have and ally without knowing to have him. a person outside of your game, the gives you repsect in the way the players that find his content will be surprised that you/DE tolerate it and applaude you for your transparency. players give you respect for this because you are okay with that not because you offer them the information up.

having the same or part of a content on an DE website kinda negates all of these points. even if we know and can be sure it is automated to fish the values out of the game files. it is still your site. you will have to deal with people accusing you of polishing the numbers. so i feel the trust is not there in the first place. to that comes the whole issue about the dataming overall so i'm not sure if that the right direction to take. you will lose a lot of player over the debatte itself, like you already doing now. so even if the site is totaly perfect it will not serve the same purpose. it will not give you transparency and credit. it might even work out worsen then not having any site at all...

in the end it is your game. you make the decisions i do not ;) as a player i would have loved to see another couse of action. if you do not like what void gltich is doing. talk to him, offer him a platform let him make a site to offer his content. sponsor him, hire him, support him. if you do not like some files he posts. ask him to leave them completly out or maybe before another update you want to get stuff early in, ask him to let these out for the updates in question. talk to him. there are other solutions, ask yourself have you really tried these all the way through? making things illegal has never solved issues in the past, so why would it now? you can still go back on your decision DE. you can still change couse here. i really hope you do, since it seems like issues you coused or hold at higher priority then anyone else and then turn around and blame someone else for the things you did.

in the end a great game keep your other work going strong. still love the game, still playing ;)

thx for reading.

fight on tenno.

PS: in the time i wrote this a few posts of a user named Psychus got deleted. please do not let this be a pratice. as far as i saw he was just complaining. not offensive/ no swearwords  etc. so why delete posts. people will be upset about this for sure and they will discuss it and write about it. you have a forum and this seems like the palce such things should belong in theory. what did you expect? censoring is not the way to go. i hope i do not get banned deleted for my post here. that one has to ask/add that one is already questionable...

Edited June 23, 2017 by sulusdacor

[[DE]Momaw]

13 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What we are asking for may be perfectly reasonable but it is hardly an industry standard. Only a handful of games give you full drop table chances and none are big names. People act like they are entitled to this, but while it would be great to have, it would actually make it an exception among online games.

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who thinks this way.

[BradKing]

I hate your company's action here. 

Coming from a founder, with over 3k hours in game, MR 23 and hundreds of euros in the game. Hate. And you might remember me, I'm not a hater, I will be critical, but pragmatic, often defending the more casual and newer players as best I can.

 

But the way this company is handling the situation with Void_Glitch, ignoring all the bug fixes that we all only got because they got exposed through datamining, even to the DE dev/test team (and promptly, finally, fixed by them too), is showing a different company and attitude than four, three, or even one year ago. I don't like to see it and I certainly hate losing the actual data. 

I want proper, guaranteed numbers. Not some BS colour (that I can't even tell apart by being quite colour impaired) scheme, not some 'we feel the grind is in a good place when it comes to the RNG / Dropchances', no, cold, hard verifiable numbers.

That's what the datamining means for me and that's what a responsible dataminer did for you.

Saying 'the industry doesn't do this, we're gonna be special/on the frontier with this' is a non-argument, since datamining, as it is accepted by much of the industry (ie not actively pursued since it is not illegal {bar certain countries/industries} nor hurting the involved companies {bar those cases where it was and the culprits were rightly pursued}) and provides all the data, objectively, verfiied by a third party data miner.

And it's not even a matter of trust, as DE has seen on several occasions themselves, when it comes to the resulting code being flawed in a way that only comes out through examining the expected data and results from the designer and developers at DE, the results us players are experiencing and the objective data mined data and spotting the faults, either in our player expectations, or, the resulting code/data in the actual releases.

 

I would love to see DE, finally, publish the actual drop table numbers, up to date for every patch, every event, every day. But I can only gain trust in them when it's objectively verified by a trusted third party, like someone who has been providing the cold hard data mined truth for years now.

:( 

 

[Osmarien]

The issue is very understandable and fully justified, so I must say I can agree with what is done at the moment.

I myself personally, disagree with some of the datamining activities. Spoilers, leaks were never my thing. Some of them actually gave me hope, especially when I was farming for certain things, which I was comforted a bit that the drop chance is rather okay, and I was just being unlucky.

However, I am pretty sure Void has not much to do with the issue, because as far as I know he only reveals the drop rate and he didn't do the Umbra thing and the Primed Streamline thing (unless there's a proof that I missed).

I personally think he may (just maybe) be a victim of the situation. He is a known data miner. However the one that does the thing (the issue) is an anonymous.

To be honest, I think it is only fair for you guys to not to accuse him of such actions just because he is the only known dataminer. Well, unless there's proof where he is involved directly in those issues, please consider about his condition.

Overall, I respect everything (if not all, I'll say a lot most of them) you guys have decided and I accept them. The alternate initiative you guys want to provide is very appreciated, and I personally say nice job on that. I wish for the good deeds and wise decisions will be always be made (not that you guys didn't always do this, please don't get misled by my limited words of saying good/great things). I wish for a good relationship between the developers, and the players community.

Have a nice day to all of the readers of this long writing of mine.

[Bibliothekar]

15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is about reverse engineering and vectors being opened with the intent to scam trade, forge items, create 3rd party servers and generally leak unfinished content and game internals that can be just as misleading as undisclosed information. Seeing a trade for Primed Streamline take place for thousands of Platinum meant people were about to get caught in the crossfire of tolerated data-mining and malicious use of datamined information.

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up in the last seven pages, but:

Why do you put stuff like that, which you don't want to see in the hands of players (yet), in the public build in the first place? Yeah, sure, it makes update size smaller when the heavily hyped cinematic quest finally ships - but is it really worth it? If you want to keep things secret, don't put them in the effing client. You knew that all the game files were datamined, you knew there were people (not necessarily the dataminers themselves) who would use that information to spoil information about upcoming quests or worse. And yet you still put it out there for them to find. I'll probably get accused of victim-blaming for saying this, but in my eyes, you brought this on yourself, DE.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

@[DE]Rebecca

I can understand how frustrating it is to have a surprise spoiled. I know that you pre-load items onto the public build so that updates can be smaller overall (to accommodate for those who have a poor internet connection). Having people expose all of the work you do is like having a painting with a sheet over it, waiting for the big reveal, when someone comes in and yanks away the sheet.

That said, I feel that there must be some way to obfuscate/purposefully corrupt said pre-loaded data, so as to make it incompatible with the public client, and then fix that when DE releases the main update. While it would add a small amount more data to the main update, it would prevent this content from leaking, which is something that stopping public datamining won't do.

I am very glad that DE plans on taking up the responsibility of releasing data regarding released content, such as drop tables. The fact that DE is willing to do this themselves shows just how far DE has come as a company, considering what happened 11 updates ago.

15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Where could we seek wisdom of other developers’ actions to demystify the RNG process and publish drops? The trick is that this behaviour is not strongly or exhaustively exhibited elsewhere in the industry (unless the law demands it in certain regions).

To be perfectly honest, I don't care a whole lot about the drop rates. I know that the community can talk amongst itself and see if DE is trying to pull another Update 9 and will then delve in and datamine, regardless of what DE says about it, because the ability always exists as long as DE continues to use clients-as-hosts methods. What I am more worried about is all of the hidden mechanics and stats of existing weapons that the community has relied upon datamining to provide.

For instance, how many pellets are fired by the Tigris Prime. Or any other shotgun? The only reason the community knows the answer to this question is through datamining. How about the explosion radius of a Glave when channel-thrown? Or the damage spread and fall-off range of the Redeemer's charged shot? Or the AoE radius of any launcher-type weapon? Or the exact mechanics of any melee weapon with a special effect (Lesion, Caustacyst, the Syndicate melee weapons, Zenistar, etc.) Or, perhaps most pressingly, the new Tenno Speargun's alt-fire mechanics. How large of an area does it cover? Does it affect enemies who walk into range, or only those who are in range when thrown? Haw large is the bullet attractor radius? Does it only affect the wielder's shots? Does it affect enemy fire? Before now, all of these questions would be answered on the wiki within days due to the effort put in by the dataminers to find this info and publish it.

Here, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for releasing all of the data on weapons/abilities/enemies/etc. I cannot personally think of an MMO, of any kind, that I have played, that does not release this info either in-game, through an official wiki, or by giving it to a fan-run wiki. This kind of info is what makes build-making fun, as there is no guesswork as to how any given stat/mod/equip/enchant/whatever will have on the weapon. The only questions being asked are "How will this change affect my damage (or DPS)?" and "How would this change my playstyle?/Can I use this with my current playstyle?"

Releasing the damage values for exalted abilities are all well and good, but why not work on getting us the rest of the stats on weapons we already have a UI for?

[Bibliothekar]

14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What you are saying "just don't put it in the files" actually doesn't make sense. They need to to prep for updates, and the files in languages are hard to hide, hence stuff constantly getting spoiled by dataminers. 

They could easily put assets and info for cinematics in the game files prematurely but keep the localization files out until the very end. Those are only text files and go by the single-digit kilobytes. You could put in an entire quest from start to end - when all you have are references to missing texts, we still could only speculate what it's all about. Just like they did with the big reveal at the end of Star Wars 5. When they filmed that scene, Darth Vader's actor said something completely different than what James Earl Jones later recorded - to keep it all secret, even from their own people. DE could easily do the same.

[Bibliothekar]

14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

What we are asking for may be perfectly reasonable but it is hardly an industry standard.

But it should be. And if the industry doesn't do it by themselves (because they want to keep their players), it should be enforced by law (as China already does).

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

Last time Acolytes appeared I did an aggregate of around 170 for the five of them.

Got only 2 of the 5 rare mods (No AS, no MS, no NB).

I was on the verge of giving up the game, but the more or less fairness of the drop tables kept me playing.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Meh, I'm indifferent to the whole situation.

Players want transparency.  Companies want to protect their product.

[Zeranov]

Seriously Rebecca...  a website might not cut it. Destiny did it's lore via Smartphone and it was aweful. Long term the values need to be implemented into the Codex... with a tutorial what the Codex is in the first place.

[EDIT] Curious... my original post contained a suggestion to hire VoiD_Glitch and let him handle the problem and programming. Why would a mod want to remove that?

Edited June 25, 2017 by Zeranov
Post was altered by DE...

[NightmareT12]

9 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

My only goal was to upload any information that I could retrieve in a readable and useful format. It was an effort to assist the community. That was my highest priority. All Digital Extremes had to do was ask me to take something down (it seems like they specifically wanted Languages.bin down), prior to a legal letter, and it could have been as simple as that. I do not appreciate being the involved in a legal matter that should not even involve me in the first place.

You didn't answer my question, and you do know it.

[Koldraxon-732]

Forenotice: Any opinion or suggestion that follows, Lotus, should be considered with the Summary and Afterword in mind.
Advisory:   terminology at play.

Void Glitched Datamining Incident:

Spoiler

 

Natah.

I have a simple suggestion regarding the datamining incident and the Void Glitch:

Allow him to continue digging, but here's the twist: He sends it to you ( [DE]Rebecca ) so DE can erase, if there is any, spoilery content from the datamined files.
This 'DE-approved' datamined file pack can then be sent back to Void Glitch, or uploaded to, say, the Warframe wiki. 

This would, however, require the law enforcement entities to loosen their grip on him, and would need both sides (DE and him) to talk to eachother more directly, without a Warframe between them preferably (i.e: Skype). 

This solution would effectively be a DE-sided certification process on datamined content, and theoretically would satisfy both parties.
Should this resolution to the situation be forgone for a more complicated, excessively expensive, solution, then that Grofit won't go to making new content if that is the case.

With this cooperation in mind, Natah, DE will be able to redact, if not outright remove any content-spoiling content from the build that is ready to be released.

 

Suggested solution (most efficient, supposedly least expensive, improves connection to Tenno):

Spoiler

Find a means to directly commune to Void Glitch (i.e: Skype, Discord) to set up a DE authentication system (which may require some Corpus Crewmen to operate) where Void Glitch's current and potential future datamined content is directly transferred to DE via [DE]Rebecca's Discord (which has such a feature, or Skype, somehow). When the content has been received, the authentication system can then proceed by ripping out any content that alludes to unreleased content that correlates to spoilers in such a way that all that should remain are what already exists, and what is already known (i.e: Harrow gameplay).
Short edition:
I suggest, [DE]Rebecca /  Natah, to use Skype or Discord to talk to Void Glitch directly without surrogates/Warframes/Spectres/Crewmen/Corpus_Proxies. After arranging a means to transfer datamined content, Void Glitch would continue operations but will instead transfer datamined data to DE via the method arranged, where DE itself will allocate resources to redact and nullify content-spoiling content. The output would be sent back to Void Glitch for him to upload, and it wouldn't spoil anything.

Afterword: This means Natah and Void Glitch would talk, voice to voice, if not face to face, directly. This way, the situation would be solved with far less cost than would be anticipated with stereotypical measures.

Surplus: The reason I, again, am addressing [DE]Rebecca as Natah instead of Lotus is because of last-year-or-so's situation where all Tenno were called Losers. This is because of the fact that Lotus was Natah before things changed, and it sufficient.

Summary: A solution to the incident with maximum benefit, if nobody else has said this before.

[yingji]

10 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

You didn't answer my question, and you do know it.

It's one thing having to deal with bully tactics from a foreign owned corporation.

Quite another when fellow Tenno accidentally (I'm sure) start doing DE's lawyers' jobs for them.

 

[NightmareT12]

7 minutes ago, yingji said:

It's one thing having to deal with bully tactics from a foreign owned corporation.

Quite another when fellow Tenno accidentally (I'm sure) start doing DE's lawyers' jobs for them.

 

Hate on me if you wish, but that's how it goes. If he had thought things thorugh and had limited to upload only the drop chances, this wouldn't have happened.

Instead he had a Discord, a GitHUb repository uploading other stuff like the Text Language files (what good does that do for us, what benefit?), and he is literally the only one that has tools to reverse engineer the game -- and since we don't have access to the whole thing, we can't just assume or deduce.

In case you can't understand what I'm saying: He didn't do this nor influenced anyone (of that I am sure), but by sharing the information only he (for he keeps his tools only for himself and has never shared them) and DE can get, it goes down to 2 possible scenarios:

• He posted information that, indirectly, allowed people to do the Umbra stuff -> He needs to be more careful in the future for any other thing he does.
• He didn't, which means there's someone else using his nose on the engine -> which is a bigger threat for the game itself (for devs, for us, for everyone).

Only by clarification of that all of us (we, DE and VoiD) can be 100% sure of what the heck the issue is here and the most correct course of action to take.

It's not about being a lawyer or picking sides, white knighting or whatever the hell people want to make out of this. It's by giving some thought and making sure this doesn't happen again by knowing exactly what and how it happened.

Edited June 23, 2017 by NightmareT12

[Madway7]

Please also make sure that stats like flight speed and punchthrough (also maybe range caps in weapons like the Ignis, Glaxion and Phage) are added to the weapon arsenal UI.

[yingji]

24 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Hate on me if you wish, but that's how it goes. If he had thought things thorugh and had limited to upload only the drop chances, this wouldn't have happened.

Instead he had a Discord, a GitHUb repository uploading other stuff like the Text Language files (what good does that do for us, what benefit?), and he is literally the only one that has tools to reverse engineer the game -- and since we don't have access to the whole thing, we can't just assume or deduce.

In case you can't understand what I'm saying: He didn't do this nor influenced anyone (of that I am sure), but by sharing the information only he (for he keeps his tools only for himself and has never shared them) and DE can get, it goes down to 2 possible scenarios:

• He posted information that, indirectly, allowed people to do the Umbra stuff -> He needs to be more careful in the future for any other thing he does.
• He didn't, which means there's someone else using his nose on the engine -> which is a bigger threat for the game itself (for devs, for us, for everyone).

Only by clarification of that all of us (we, DE and VoiD) can be 100% sure of what the heck the issue is here and the most correct course of action to take.

It's not about being a lawyer or picking sides, white knighting or whatever the hell people want to make out of this. It's by giving some thought and making sure this doesn't happen again by knowing exactly what and how it happened.

'Literally the only one that has tools'? This is why I advise Void_glitch to stop posting ... 

Do you personally know what software is used to facilitate data mining? do you have any of it on your computer? do you have any idea how widespread those tools are and the knowledge to go with them? or to what extent and in what locations it is a normal, legal activity to look inside files stored on your own computer?

Do you know how many other people check inside the Warframe files on their computers?

Do you know what hacks were done to reveal Umbra? do you know what data was required to achieve the hacks, or how it was obtained?

When you state like it's some kind of known fact that Void_Glitch is 'literally the only one that has tools' then it's not about hate, it's about calling out false statements.

At least try to act responsibly a little bit, thanks.

Edited June 23, 2017 by yingji