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[DE]Rebecca

Drop Rates, Datamines, and Digital Extremes (DDD).

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

I do not believe that I am infringing on their copyright, but that is what the lawyers are paid to say.

Also, Digital Extremes did IP block me and remove all possible access I have in the game. It isn't like I play Warframe anymore anyway, but you only need the client to datamine. You don't need to be able to log-in.

Yeah, and they cannot force me to sign an NDA. It is my choice to do that. You need to know what you are talking about.

Stop posting and only talk to your lawyer (get one, talk to reddit if you don't have one and want some advice finding one) and only have your lawyer talk to their lawyer, don't talk direct. Really. For your own good, really really :)

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

I do not believe that I am infringing on their copyright, but that is what the lawyers are paid to say.

Also, Digital Extremes did IP block me and remove all possible access I have in the game. It isn't like I play Warframe anymore anyway, but you only need the client to datamine. You don't need to be able to log-in.

Yeah, and they cannot force me to sign an NDA. It is my choice to do that. You need to know what you are talking about.

If someone has art and story thats theirs and you post it in the open without permission. Its a breach, I know it seems dumb but thats how it is.

I did not know the information here and I apologize.

When I mean force I mean like an ultimatum. ie sign the C&D with the NDA or we take legal action. most people will the latter to avoid any more problems.

I also think you dont need to waste money on a lawyer. A C&D isn't a lawsuit. Technically we can still datamine, DE cant stop it if we only reveal info that falls into fair use - drop rates etc. But pics of the new primes, weapons, mods and any kind of new weapons, scripts is a no no

Edited by sinisteran
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Talk to lawyer don't be influenced by stuff posted on Internet forum of other party and written by god(tm)-knows-who.

Really. Lawyer. They are counting on you messing up. Don't.

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Well, I don't disagree with sinisteran's statement that datamining could potentially affect DE's revenue stream and it probably has. This is probably the major reason they're even doing this. Even though I'm not a big spender nor important enough of a revenue stream for DE, when their lies are being exposed by datamined info, one would feel reluctant to continue to support such a company.

I still play due to how cathartic it is to shut my brain off and shoot at easy enemies, but at one point I was absolutely disappointed by how easy the game has become. They have made some progress to balance the game via some much needed nerfs and it seems even players are tired of cheesing the game as I have not ran into many instances of it. Maybe? I don't play as much now, though.

Wait, was DE present for Strauss Zelnick's speech during a technological conference recently? Huh...? It seems that Take 2 is revoking the C&D against OpenIV. I wonder what happened...? I thought they thought it was a good idea.

Edited by SicSlaver
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11 hours ago, Sahysa said:

I feel like I can respect DE's right to protect the game while also condemning them regarding how.  The pleas for help make little sense now...

Indeed.  I agree entirely.

My point was this:

The timing of DE's statement leaves a great deal to be desired.  In fact, it stinks.  Slap Void with a C&D (I know, it was only a Letter of Warning, but it has the same effect on an person nonetheless), then, and only then, make an official announcement about being all gung ho about providing players with drop rate information and setting "the new standard for transparency with the community?"  They've gotten the whole thing backwards.  Why did they wait for two weeks after quasi-legal action was taken to make a statement about "transparency?"

I don't believe DE had any intention to publish actual drop rate values.  And I'm completely fine with that.  They are under absolutely no obligation to do so.

Fact is, Void already had the transparency ball rolling.  DE lawyered up and took it, and in order to avoid any further community backlash by thereafter withholding drop rate information, they had to run with it.

But to issue a statement that, in my opinion basically plays it off as though it had been DE's intention all along to publish drop rate information I find to be just a little disingenuous, given the recent chain of events.  Again, why the wait?

DE said in the 2016 year end Devstream that one of the most important things they needed to work on in 2017 was communication with the players.  This remains true and DE's statement is a step towards that goal...sort of...in a way...I suppose.  But I think what the community really wants is honest, proactive communication, a priori.  Not ex post facto transparency.

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On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

Would it also be possible to see stats such as range for melee weapons eventually listed in game, and added to the wiki for new weapons for now? I believe we have also relied on data miners for these stats as well. This whole situation is reminding me how many things (not drop tables) but things such as ability or weapon stats, that we rely on the wiki for. I understand it is a temporary solution to put all this on wiki, but it seems, and I hope I am reading it correctly, that the eventual goal is to have it all listed in game. 

Drop table percentages make sense to have on the website, because that kind of back end thing is appreciated transparency by some players, but may not look as polished as the devs would look as part of the in game interface. I get that. 

But I think in terms of stuff like melee weapon range, exalted weapon stats, etc, etc. All of it should eventually be somewhere in game. I think while the wiki is an amazing resource, and has potential to be an even greater resource, any stats for a weapon or ability I have is not something I should have to tab out of the game to find out, imo. 

Thank you for this post, and for DE's continued commitment to transparency! To be honest, while some people complain, it is true that there really aren't any games I can think of that give you all of the percentages like that. However, Warframe is special in so many ways already, being an industry pioneer in many ways. I think DE could set the standard for the entire gaming world, and show everyone how transparency is really done, and how much players appreciate it! 

The issue with melee range is that it can vary because of different stances and different swings, although we could have a range for the values, like 10m-15m as the listed range.

Honestly when it comes to drop rates right now I do not think DE can get away with just posting the stats in game or on their own website while maintaining 100% trust with the community after this whole event with Void.

Also when it comes to the wiki it relies on data mines for some of its values and I for one will not believe any of its values when Harrow drops next week and will find it hard to continue to trust DE based on how I have seen this whole situation unravel.

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On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 8:41 PM, NightmareT12 said:


@(PS4)VoiD_Glitch if you want a personal advice: Be a bit more picky with what you share (it's one thing to show the RNG chances, another one to rip a Prime model, another one to rip a new character from a quest and another one to leak a script, even if it's added beforehand :P), and if you have a suspicion of what and how that Umbra/Streamline stuff happened, be smart and make sure that doesn't happen again by either, pointing at the flaw or not sharing it. Again, I know you yourself have not done anything with bad intentions, nor are directly responsible of that, but are you sure, 100%, that you undirectly have not contributed somehow to it? That's where I want to go.

So I'm not going to be pointing fingers really here. DE did the right thing, VoiD was doing the right thing (although maybe not carefully enough) and hopefully this situation serves for something useful for once.

DE have taken Void Glitch and are using him as the culprit for a "crime" he hasn't committed. He was our lead source of information keeping DE honest, see update 9 drop chances. To think just because someone is data mining and presenting the information to the world doesn't mean that he was the source of the hacks, I will also agree it doesn't negate him from it.

DE had someone that was publicly posting Data mines and singled them out. That's how some people see it right now and it does not and will not score points for them with the community and will only bring back memories of how things use to be and how knee jerk reactiony DE can be.

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6 hours ago, Church002 said:

She said they sought legal counsel when hacking took place and evidence piled up.

"evidence"

people seemed to just fly over that word.

lol.

I use the wikia, so if that has datamined information on it, then i guess i use datamined info? otherwise, i dont really care for people who datamine. that time could be spent enjoying the content from DE.

however, if this leads to more transparency from DE, then i guess i owe the involved dataminers an ounce of gratitude, or dare i say...a gram?

#manyhues.

As I know some stuff in the wiki uses the datamined info. The most obvious one is the Void Relic page which is full of Void_Glitch's stuff, they even linked the reference to him.

On some page they say that the piece of info in context was from datamining, while some others they do not, such us what I found on Dera and Vauban page, but that's a minor thing. They turn a blind eye to the practice so they accept all valid contributions, whether datamined or manual tested. After all if I'm not mistaken it's been a long time since a DE member himself contributed to the wiki, so some of the drop rates of recent items, etc, may contain datamined information.

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I know this is a bit of a... "hot" topic at the moment, but I'd like to say that I'm at least excited about the work you're doing on providing concrete, reliable numbers in relation to the drop rates of items. Personally, I feel that adding the drop rates of items (such as mods) to the codex would be a massive step in the right direction, and I think it would be cool to have a "breakdown" tab for warframes who have exalted weapons, which shows base damage, the modifiers from your warframe mods, and the modifiers from your weapon mods, as well as a way to determine which mods do and don't work on the specified exalted weapon (sure, the general rule of thumb is no rivens and no syndicate mods, but there's a few other mods that don't work on exalted weapons for various reasons... coughcoughbodycountcough)

Anyways, legally speaking, I'm not sure that this is the way to go about this (void glitch was comparatively open about what he did and did not do; issuing him a cease-and-desist does not stop the people who engaged in various game hacks (such as excalibur umbra), which I'm pretty sure violates the EULA anyways), but I'm not a lawyer so, /shrug.

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I have stopped playing the game because of how you decided to approach this situation. And this is not the only reason. I appreciate some of the transparency that you guys have as a dev team but looking at issues such as Universal Vacuum where we have not been given a reason why it has been a hard no. Or self damage where many players hate it. And so many of us rushed to get "theater grenades" as it made the penta usable and fun. But then the mod was nerfed and no explanation or even compensation was given (like the forma given out for the nerf of stuff like synoid simulor). And now you guys decided to scorch everything as tennocon was coming up to keep things from leaking. And in doing so you took out arguably the biggest and most accurate resource center that we had as players. Not to mention how hostile that action was towards Void. Did you guys not see what happened to GTA V a few days ago when they decided to send a cease and desist letter to the modders ? To me your course of action is frankly bullyish and a clear step against the community. And I can't in good conscience keep playing the game and support these actions. The frame work of showing us the info that you guys very suddenly took away is promising.

Thank you for over 2000 hours of fun. But I'm stepping back till I see real steps taken towards providing us with the information and stats that we need as players, AND till I see better communication between the DE and the players. Not legal threats.

Edited by WagnerianSlip
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You know, I get that DE doesn't want people to get spoiled on stats/primes/baro items. But I have to ask the question of why it was that they kept doing this for the time they spent "Turning a blind eye." Did it never cross anyone's mind at DE to slot in a bunch of Dummy Values or Dummy Names/icons to fool people? Like, if you didn't want people to know Sybaris prime's stats before Oberon Prime Access, Slot in a ton of bullS#&$ stats and replace them on release. You obviously state that they're subject to change and thus intend to change them regardless if you find them lacking/op so its not like it'd be too much work for the folks there. The same could apply to scripts though I would suggest having a script that is actually finalized and ready to be used so you can avoid any possible disappointment that could stem from a script change. Same goes for icons I would hope, don't want people to find out that File: 3423123pe is actually Nezha prime? Make the icon a pink pogo stick to avoid any possible spoilers. I'm probably oversimplifying the work that goes into coding and loading these files but I assume that these tactics aren't out of the realm of possibility. 

On the topic of Umbra and Streamlined; Umbra was shown off in a trailer for the Chinese release but it never came out in any build (To my knowledge) and was hyped up by DE as opposed to the players. Primed Streamline seems to not have been intended to be released any time soon so I fail to see why exactly it was in the files in the first place. The hype for Umbra was set in stone the second we saw him in the trailers and were told that Umbras would exist alongside primes. The lack of any real info on what happened to that plan was bound to lead to players searching on their own terms. Humans are curious creatures by nature and one must learn to plan around that if you want a proper secret reveal. 

Finally, my stance on the topic of datamining leading to exploits and hacks, these things were gonna happen regardless of Void's involvement. At no point did he ever publicly release a method to break into the game's files or the like. A hacker hellbent on exploiting the game would have figured out how to exploit the game whether or not Void's repository was online. Given the fact he had no direct hand (Or really an indirect hand because there was no real explanation as to HOW he did what he did) he was falsely punished for something he didn't do. Datamining was used solely used for retrieving information that was not disclosed to the community despite the obvious fact that we wanted such information for farming purposes. The knife was meant only to cut meat but if the murderer used that knife for killing, no one in the right mind would blame the producer of the knife. If someone managed to hack WF just by datamined code, they were already most of the way there. 

TLDR, this situation seems very dumb and could have been avoided if DE had just thought ahead instead of in the moment. Especially since they knew that the datamining was happening, it is rather dumb that they didn't plan any counter measures to avoid spoilers that they seem to have such a problem with. I'm obviously not very well acquainted with the internal happenings in DE so all that I've said could be wrong but I feel like they had the resources to avoid this but simply didn't for some odd reason. Personally, I love this game and will still support DE as much as I can but I can still acknowledge when they have messed up in some capacity. It is because I like this game that I want to see them improve.

Edited by (PS4)Sigma_The_Kight
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14 hours ago, Gendalph said:

If you don't need that info - you're free not to use it.

But where can I find range of melee weapons?

And what are you going to do with that stat?

Quote

Where could I find stats on secondary fire before Euphona Prime?

How many weapons require that info?

Quote

But stats for things like Exalted Blade and Artemis Bow are still unavailable in game.

Doesnt the ability power description give the power stats?

Quote

Where can I find drop locations and rates for relics and a number of mods? Codex shows me only location, not the chance or even rotation. Did you know that you have 1.84% to get Neo V4 as a reward from rotation C on Dark Sector Defense, up to Uranus? But normal Defense missions on Uranus and up have 9.09% for rotation A to reward a Neo V4. I know all this only thanks to datamines provided by Void_Glitch.

you didnt answer the question he asked, you just asked more. 

The rotation info is nice but the percentage does what? Knowing that Axi relics have a higher chance dropping in Pluto is common sense. 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)VoiD_Glitch said:

<stuff>

Void, my advice is to move on. DE's played their hand - there's plenty of other companies who make good games who don't pull this stuff.

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1 hour ago, WrickyB said:

There is a huge cache of knowledge on the Warframe Wikia page, the homepage of which is:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/WARFRAME_Wiki

Perhaps you contact the creators and request to take control of it so you can supplement it and fix any issues that site has and save having to do all of that work

A lot of that came from datamines.

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3 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

And what are you going to do with that stat?

How many weapons require that info?

Doesnt the ability power description give the power stats?

you didnt answer the question he asked, you just asked more. 

The rotation info is nice but the percentage does what? Knowing that Axi relics have a higher chance dropping in Pluto is common sense. 

Most of the information on the wiki is information that came from data mining.  

 

All the information below is taken from the wiki

 

the melee range status is used to know what and where you hit with your weapons since it can greatly extend the visual representation of the weapon such a orthos prime with primed reach( the hitbox is 10 meters in all directions with that mod on) which you can verify by using g on a box and then start swinging from a distance until you hit. 

the galatine and galatine prime is no where near its visual hitbox. due to the fact that the reach mods increase the hitbox on both ends. So the hilt grows larger as the blade size increase making the hitbox much smaller then on orthos prime. 

As for weapons with secondary fire mechanics we have:

Buzlok, convectrix, ferrox, javlok, mutalist cernos, all quanta weapons, panthera, all penta weapons, paracyst, all simulor weapons, tenora, zarr and zenith. That is just counting the primary weapons.

for secondaries we have azima, euphona prime, pandero, sonicor, staticor and stug.

Quite a few of these weapons are not even showing their secondary status in the game today. 

Lets take a quick example sonicor:

normal projectile attack has 

150 impact and 0% crit chance and 0% status

the explosion however has 

impact 50

10% crit chance 2.0x multiplier and 25% status

now go look in the game and find the stats. Or rather dont waste your time because the information is not there.

As for exalted abilities no the game give you the bare minimum you could demand out of a game. 

All the real information had to be datamined and was put in the wiki.

excaliburs passive give 10% attack speed and 10% damage when he wields swords, dual swords, nikanas and rapiers

as for exalted blade itself  it has a 2.x crit multiplier 15% crit chance and 10% status chance. information that is never displayed in the game.

moving on.

Wukong primal fury

again a 2x crit multiplier with an amazing 25% crit chance and 25% status on a weapon that deals 85% impact damage and 15% puncture damage.  That information is again not displayed in the game at all.

next is valkyr:

hysteria has a crit multiplier of 2x a staggering 50% crit chance and 10% status chance damage is evenly distributed betwwen impact, puncture and slash. Again none of this information is in the game.

titania Razorwing

dex pixia

10% impact 10% puncture and 80% slash

2x crit multiplier 15% crit chanc and 25% status

Diwata

15% impact 75% puncture and 10% slash 

attacks 1.08 times a second and can only hit one enemy in an attack(very important information) 

1.5 crit multiplier and 5% crit chance and 10% status 

now for ivara

Artemis bow

each single arrow has 20% status chance 25% crit chance and 2x multiplier

14% impact 80% pucture and 6% slash

all these stats are important for how to mod for these exalted abilities. You might not care but many of us do. 

None of this information can today be found in the GUI ingame. 

As for rotation and % drop chance it show you exactly where you should focus your farming efforts. Common sense has nothing at all with a factor that Digital extremes can do what ever they want with. 

if the dev team suddenly decide that axi x5 (example) should drop 2% on mars exterminate 4% on sedna rescue 8% on venus sabotage and 20% on lua spy its entirely up to them. 

It has no connection what so ever with common sense.

So i cant even fathom why you even bothered to bring it up.  

 

 

Edited by GhostLacuna
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On 22.6.2017 at 9:59 PM, Buldozers said:

You should have provided this info long ago. Codex never showed the drop chances, only rarity and that's why we loved the dataminers.

Show me atleast 20 MMO/MMORPG games were the developers tell their players the exact dropchance of every item that can be farmed in game (not datamined), if you find them then you can say "You should have provided this info long ago".

Be happy that they actually do it. Because they don't have to do it.

BTW i'm pretty sure you won't even find 10 games and there are thousands of MMOs.

 

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Show me atleast 20 MMO/MMORPG games were the developers tell their players the exact dropchance of every item that can be farmed in game (not datamined), if you find them then you can say "You should have provided this info long ago".

Be happy that they actually do it. Because they don't have to do it.

BTW i'm pretty sure you won't even find 10 games and there are thousands of MMOs.

I remember during one of the devstreams long ago they said they will add all info about drop chances and locations in the Codex. Drop chance never made it though.

I was very disappointed when they didn't deliver, but since Warframe is getting too complex and grindy I'm happy they finally are making steps in the right direction.

Better very late than never.

Edited by Buldozers
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2 hours ago, GhostLacuna said:

Most of the information on the wiki is information that came from data mining.  

 

All the information below is taken from the wiki

 

the melee range status is used to know what and where you hit with your weapons since it can greatly extend the visual representation of the weapon such a orthos prime with primed reach( the hitbox is 10 meters in all directions with that mod on) which you can verify by using g on a box and then start swinging from a distance until you hit. 

the galatine and galatine prime is no where near its visual hitbox. due to the fact that the reach mods increase the hitbox on both ends. So the hilt grows larger as the blade size increase making the hitbox much smaller then on orthos prime. 

 

 

again, the question is what you are going to do with that stat and not what are those stats.

Now that you know this, what are you going to do with it?

As for weapons with secondary fire mechanics we have:

Quote

 

Buzlok, convectrix, ferrox, javlok, mutalist cernos, all quanta weapons, panthera, all penta weapons, paracyst, all simulor weapons, tenora, zarr and zenith. That is just counting the primary weapons.

for secondaries we have azima, euphona prime, pandero, sonicor, staticor and stug.

Quite a few of these weapons are not even showing their secondary status in the game today. 

Lets take a quick example sonicor:

normal projectile attack has 

150 impact and 0% crit chance and 0% status

the explosion however has 

impact 50

10% crit chance 2.0x multiplier and 25% status

now go look in the game and find the stats. Or rather dont waste your time because the information is not there.

 

The question wasnt, again, gimme a list, the questions how many of those weapon require that info to be known?

The game doesnt list the Penta explosion damage but the nade damage? Well, that needs to be fixed if that's whats shown.

The azima alt doesnt do anything but create a turret, and the sonicor? Does that need to be known?

 

Quote

As for exalted abilities no the game give you the bare minimum you could demand out of a game. 

All the real information had to be datamined and was put in the wiki.

excaliburs passive give 10% attack speed and 10% damage when he wields swords, dual swords, nikanas and rapiers

as for exalted blade itself  it has a 2.x crit multiplier 15% crit chance and 10% status chance. information that is never displayed in the game.

The passive is listed on the abilities page.

Ok what do you do with that info on EB? Is it enough to mod for crit for a weapon with meh crit?
 

Quote

 

moving on.

Wukong primal fury

again a 2x crit multiplier with an amazing 25% crit chance and 25% status on a weapon that deals 85% impact damage and 15% puncture damage.  That information is again not displayed in the game at all.

next is valkyr:

hysteria has a crit multiplier of 2x a staggering 50% crit chance and 10% status chance damage is evenly distributed betwwen impact, puncture and slash. Again none of this information is in the game.

titania Razorwing

dex pixia

10% impact 10% puncture and 80% slash

2x crit multiplier 15% crit chanc and 25% status

Diwata

15% impact 75% puncture and 10% slash 

attacks 1.08 times a second and can only hit one enemy in an attack(very important information) 

1.5 crit multiplier and 5% crit chance and 10% status 

now for ivara

Artemis bow

each single arrow has 20% status chance 25% crit chance and 2x multiplier

14% impact 80% pucture and 6% slash

all these stats are important for how to mod for these exalted abilities. You might not care but many of us do. 

None of this information can today be found in the GUI ingame. 

 

More listing of info with no explanation.
 

Quote

 

As for rotation and % drop chance it show you exactly where you should focus your farming efforts. Common sense has nothing at all with a factor that Digital extremes can do what ever they want with. 

if the dev team suddenly decide that axi x5 (example) should drop 2% on mars exterminate 4% on sedna rescue 8% on venus sabotage and 20% on lua spy its entirely up to them. 

It has no connection what so ever with common sense.

So i cant even fathom why you even bothered to bring it up.  

 

And you dont think people are going to find out by playing as quickly and they found out the Prodman autograph?

Look, i know that there are mathheads playing games that get a heart attack if they cant do math for some reason or other, but the real question is the game unplayable without that info? Why dont you ask for the info, bug them until they do it because you all know DE does this easily, instead of hacking the game?

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I might be the minority here when I say that Void_Glitch's "guilt" if it ever even existed is entirely irrelevant. DE had noted exploitation, hacking and untold other damages that were or could be facilitated by datamining. Not only is Warframe DE's intellectual property that NEEDS constant protection but the legal ramifications of what they propose if they don't are clear to me. 

The danger is not in a single individual or a small Anon style group. It's your average script-kiddie who googles for a datamine package, some complementary "ready to go" software and that's that. And you can ban hundreds of these, set the legal dogs on them too. But unless it makes an impact, it's bandaid. Yes, there will always be bad apples and people who will keep doing these things regardless. But a precedent must be established and an impression must be made onto the community as a whole for DE to ever have a leg to stand on. 

DE had to put the boot down SOMEWHERE. And unfortunately Void_Glitch just happened to tick enough boxes to be the valid target. A well known and influential name in the circles that mater, directly tied to the topic at hand. Considering the discussions and what little legalese DE has put out over the years, I am very sure that this move was not done lightly. Not to antagonize anyone or propagate some weird conspiracy. 

To reiterate: Even if Void_Glitch didn't use the datamined information for ill purposes, it was still something that allowed others to do so. It's like a huge hole in a zoo wall. Would you prefer to go about trying to catch every single animal that tries to get out (or get stolen), or would you rather try to avoid the hole in the first place? 

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On 2017-6-22 at 8:55 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

smI9iRtfbACqGZvNZ629ER6w70evvzEP7srnz8AG
 

 

To be honest the above display is pretty misleading in a way. The sortie rewards show a total 11 rewards but they are in reality 24 which is a pretty diluted drop table. 3 types of rivens (soon to be 4), 5 types of focus lens, 5 types of greater focus lens & 4 types of boosters. Will you display the % drop rates for each of these ? Right now the riven mods seem to have unequal drop rates between Pistol/AR rivens & shotgun feeling like a rarer one. Why wasn't this added since beginning in the first place ?

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53 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I might be the minority here when I say that Void_Glitch's "guilt" if it ever even existed is entirely irrelevant. DE had noted exploitation, hacking and untold other damages that were or could be facilitated by datamining. Not only is Warframe DE's intellectual property that NEEDS constant protection but the legal ramifications of what they propose if they don't are clear to me. 

The danger is not in a single individual or a small Anon style group. It's your average script-kiddie who googles for a datamine package, some complementary "ready to go" software and that's that. And you can ban hundreds of these, set the legal dogs on them too. But unless it makes an impact, it's bandaid. Yes, there will always be bad apples and people who will keep doing these things regardless. But a precedent must be established and an impression must be made onto the community as a whole for DE to ever have a leg to stand on. 

DE had to put the boot down SOMEWHERE. And unfortunately Void_Glitch just happened to tick enough boxes to be the valid target. A well known and influential name in the circles that mater, directly tied to the topic at hand. Considering the discussions and what little legalese DE has put out over the years, I am very sure that this move was not done lightly. Not to antagonize anyone or propagate some weird conspiracy. 

To reiterate: Even if Void_Glitch didn't use the datamined information for ill purposes, it was still something that allowed others to do so. It's like a huge hole in a zoo wall. Would you prefer to go about trying to catch every single animal that tries to get out (or get stolen), or would you rather try to avoid the hole in the first place? 

+1

The law is a reason, free from passion.

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