Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[Midrib]

[---DADDY---]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

This has never been confirmed or even remotely implied... Stalker is just a pissed off Low Guardian who got ahold of some Warframe armor.  

Have you even played TSD / TWW m8?

Stalker is a Tenno / Warframe symbiosis just like us but with a difference, he's unaware of his true nature, possibly due to a prolonged transference or something of a similar nature but different e.g. his original consciousness becoming trapped inside the conduit within the "stalker" warframe. Warframe isn't an armour, it's a semi-sentient, cybernetic organism connected to the very human operator via a somatic link. And lore has already confirmed that operator consciousness can become "trapped" or at least fully immersed inside warframes, which is what Stalker seems to be. And there's generally just a hell of a lot of evidence to suggest this.

[KiroTheTraveler]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

"Forbidden Planet"...I've had the theory for a long time that Stalker is the compartmentalized, subconscious mess that comes from subjecting child super-soldiers to endless war.

Margulis may have filtered the nightmares, but our guilt-driven EGO gave life to the Dread, hate, and despair within us...

The hatred of Warframes?  The tool that perpetuates a painful existence.

That "low guardian" seeing betrayal from afar?

Your Guilty (sub)conscience watching from the sleeping safety of Lua.

His immunity?  You can't use your powers on yourself.

Stalker knows where you are because he IS you.  Deep down, past the "schooling" and "disciplines" and other constructs that have trained you to making the endless killing acceptable is a vestige of morality and humanity that is deserving of justice and punishment, and at the very least, the destruction of those tools (Warframes) that might grant a release from the tools of bloodletting and a chance at redemption. 

Stalker doesn't comprehend who or WHAT he is, because, like the doctor at the end of the movie "Forbidden Planet" it means the full realization of who you are, Tenno, and what you have done.  You aren't trying to kill yourself (Hence the Second Dream hesitation), but punish yourself and destroy your Warframes.

 

It's a lot better/cooler story of "man vs self" than some angry, lone Dax soldier...

 

 

Well he knows your email somehow (whenever you kill a boss) so that's one point of evidence haha. 

 

@ (PS4)Silverback73 that also makes perfect sense on how there will be other Umbra Warframes! The trauma from the other Tenno from their past is what will have an "Umbra" series in the future!

Edited March 4, 2018 by CaptainStrawberry

[KiroTheTraveler]

And what if... Maybe the Sacrifice had already been made but the sacrifice or the big choice (that DE will probably give)is do you accept yourself? Kill the former self and become the new self. Accept Stalker. (This kind of also ties in with the upcoming Stalker system playmode) 

The unique mechanic on obtaining other Umbra Warframes is probably accepting yourself or accepting the "dark side" via boss fight for example. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by CaptainStrawberry

[KiroTheTraveler]

And here is another round about!!! 

The Operator and the Tenno where a war child. They had no guide or comfort, no one to comfort them and they had no one to console to emotionally (Margulis was dead). 

They could have experienced trauma at any time, create transference fracture at any time. 

So... what if the Shadow of the Operator was created (I.E The Shadow that is the Stalker) and out of rage and hatred the Operator rejected the Stalker (rejected this abomination) which fuelled him with despair, hate and dread. But the Orokin, they saw an opportunity, they gave the Stalker purpose and made this "shadow" a low guardian. 

The wipe out of the Orokin drove the Stalker in utter despair and hatred.  Which creates the broken shadow, the black smoke we see the Stalker have.

Edited March 4, 2018 by CaptainStrawberry

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

9 hours ago, FunJester said:

Do you think that the umbra  warframe require a regular/prime warframe as a component to build it?

excalibur + umbra bp = excalibur umbra

I think this is very likely.

It will help take away an otherwise unused frame and make it seem useful as part of the crafting process.

However, I think this is extremely unlikely to happen:

9 hours ago, FunJester said:

excalibur prime + umbra bp = excalibur prime umbra

From this whole Umbra fiasco, DE already knows that if they even try to do that, the community will strong-arm them into releasing another series or frame so that everyone can pseudo-have it.

Also, the agreement with ChangYou is that they will can't ever release Excalibur Umbra Prime to us, so I doubt they can just loophole this with just a change in sequence of the naming convention.

They won't likely put themselves in the same situation twice.

[Eldnacpeek]

1 hour ago, Yung-Azrael said:

Have you even played TSD / TWW m8?

Stalker is a Tenno / Warframe symbiosis just like us but with a difference, he's unaware of his true nature, possibly due to a prolonged transference or something of a similar nature but different e.g. his original consciousness becoming trapped inside the conduit within the "stalker" warframe. Warframe isn't an armour, it's a semi-sentient, cybernetic organism connected to the very human operator via a somatic link. And lore has already confirmed that operator consciousness can become "trapped" or at least fully immersed inside warframes, which is what Stalker seems to be. And there's generally just a hell of a lot of evidence to suggest this.

 

Yet, never has it been stated what an 'Umbra' is outside of early, scrapped script. That was their point, saying something like "confirmed Stalker is an Umbra" has 0 basis.

[NightmareT12]

The whole Stalker is an Umbra comes from some early concepts off his new appearance remake. He used to have the metallic crescent moon blades in his arm, just like Excalibur Umbra does.

They ended up removing them though, so yah.

[Eldnacpeek]

14 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

The whole Stalker is an Umbra comes from some early concepts off his new appearance remake. He used to have the metallic crescent moon blades in his arm, just like Excalibur Umbra does.

They ended up removing them though, so yah.

 

The model is the only thing though, there's nothing else. We don't know what an Umbra is, so saying he's an Umbra is unsupported speculation.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

Just change the topic for  wtf is stalker... 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think this is very likely.

It will help take away an otherwise unused frame and make it seem useful as part of the crafting process.

However, I think this is extremely unlikely to happen:

From this whole Umbra fiasco, DE already knows that if they even try to do that, the community will strong-arm them into releasing another series or frame so that everyone can pseudo-have it.

Also, the agreement with ChangYou is that they will can't ever release Excalibur Umbra Prime to us, so I doubt they can just loophole this with just a change in sequence of the naming convention.

They won't likely put themselves in the same situation twice.

Excaliber Umbra will be the sacrifice reward to circumvent Excal Prime exclusivity.

I've said from the beginning that all Prime parts or a built Prime plus an "Umbra Conversion" component would instantly reinvigorate the prime market.

Corresponding "Umbra Conversion" components would release as mini-quests in-game with the sale of  Unvaulted packs with the Prime variant.

In this way, DE's business model of farming it all is still relevant, but Unvaulted packs are ALSO more appealing as a purchase.

 

 

 

[EvilDarknessAlien]

I need when baro umbra posts

[Flustershy]

Now before you get the torches and pitchforks let me explain.

If you somehow have managed to miss the news that we will get Excalibur umbra (at some point in this year hopefully) then this topic might not concern you as much.

Anyhow what DE has said about Excal umbra are these things

1- Umbras will have their own skill sets.

2- There will be more umbras in the future.

3- Umbras will be available for all players and aren't timed like prime frames.

4- Excalibur umbra wont just be a better version of Excalibur prime so founders wont get screwed over.

You can look these up from the various dew streams if you want to..

 

So now i would like to point out that, DE is in a VERY VERY difficult spot right now, It all really comes down to Excal umbras kit, since he will have different abilities, what are those abilities going to be ?

Excalibur has really strong abilities already with his blind and ultimate, and the ability to move quickly trough maps as well with slash dash if you build him correctly, so what will Excal umbra have, if his abilities are worse people will just use Excalibur, and if they are better and umbra better stats, then people wont use regular Excalibur at all.

So like i said DE is in a very tight spot since they need to make excal umbra in such a way that it meets these criteria's.

1- it cant be ''better'' than excalibur prime.

2- It has to have different abilities from excalibur.

3- It cant be worse than regular excalibur.

 

So am i the only one who thinks that what DE has said about umbras kinda contradicts with one another and we might face the fact that we either get a worse version of excal, or better and either way people are going to be unhappy, or if some miracle they can pull it off (might explain why its been like 2 years when we first heard of him)

So yes i am patiently waiting for excal umbra and the sacrifice quest, like everyone else, but i think it might be best that people are prepared for one of the 3 outcomes, with 45%/45%/10% odds.

[picture not made by me all credit goes to original author and this image is just used to make my post more interesting]

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Flustershy said:

1- Umbras will have their own skill sets.

 

They never once said that.

[Flustershy]

4 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

They never once said that.

As far as i know, steve said that umbras are different line of warframes in general, and also if he didn't have different abilities, it would be really silly to let people wait for +2 years for a slightly different looking excalibur which isn't going to be better than excal prime coz that would be rude to founders (which only has 25 armor more than regular excalibur) and if it would be just a excalibur with stat variations kinda like wraith or vandal weapons, why keep delaying it then, they could have put that in any day now if it was just a stat tweak.

So if umbras don't have different abilities, then DE is going to have to make one helluva quest to make up for some lack luster over glorified excalibur with different stats that has been waited for more than 2 years by now.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Flustershy said:

As far as i know, steve said that umbras are different line of warframes in general, and also if he didn't have different abilities, it would be really silly to let people wait for +2 years for a slightly different looking excalibur which isn't going to be better than excal prime coz that would be rude to founders (which only has 25 armor more than regular excalibur) and if it would be just a excalibur with stat variations kinda like wraith or vandal weapons, why keep delaying it then, they could have put that in any day now if it was just a stat tweak.

So if umbras don't have different abilities, then DE is going to have to make one helluva quest to make up for some lack luster over glorified excalibur with different stats that has been waited for more than 2 years by now.

 

This is exactly what a lot of other people are saying. Only at one point did DE say they want to make the variant unique, but that can be interpreted in many ways. If he has different abilities, there's no reason to call him "Excalibur".

The only reason they've been pushing him back is that he's never been a priority. Even now, it seems the Venus landscape is higher on the list than the Sacrifice.

If people are disappointed that Excalibur Umbra doesn't have different abilities on launch, it's really their fault due to DE never implying that to be the case. In the end, the only thing we can do is wait (because 2 and a half years is apparently not long enough).

Edited March 4, 2018 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

10 hours ago, Yung-Azrael said:

Have you even played TSD / TWW m8?

Stalker is a Tenno / Warframe symbiosis just like us but with a difference, he's unaware of his true nature, possibly due to a prolonged transference or something of a similar nature but different e.g. his original consciousness becoming trapped inside the conduit within the "stalker" warframe. Warframe isn't an armour, it's a semi-sentient, cybernetic organism connected to the very human operator via a somatic link. And lore has already confirmed that operator consciousness can become "trapped" or at least fully immersed inside warframes, which is what Stalker seems to be. And there's generally just a hell of a lot of evidence to suggest this.

Yeah I've played it and that was not at all implied or stated still.  Stalker has not been revealed to be a Tenno.  The Warframes are infested, I wouldn't really call them semi-sentient.  

You SERIOUSLY need to go back and revise lore before you try to school me on it.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Lion]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Yeah I've played it and that was not at all implied or stated still.  Stalker has not been revealed to be a Tenno.  The Warframes are infested, I wouldn't really call them semi-sentient.  

You SERIOUSLY need to go back and revise lore before you try to school me on it.  

I believe he meant the literal definition of sentient - not the in game sentients. 

Few examples when Warframes showed sentience - Rhino Prime's codex, where Proto Rhino went on a rampage before being calmed by a nearby Tenno, and in the second dream, where the Warframe broke Hunhow in half seemingly independent of our control. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Blade

[LightningsVengance]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

You SERIOUSLY need to go back and revise lore before you try to school me on it.  

there's a list of all his "What we know" videos, lore filled and super warframe educational.
 

An he has like every Warframe story currently there (couldn't find the play list, sorry) But it's all the cutscenes and dialouges (so what happens instead of what he does) My work here is done.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

Spoiler alert>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lotus out with Ballas O.O

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1 hour ago, LightningsVengance said:

 

And none of that states that Stalker is a Tenno like he stated.  You can do any amount of research into the game lore, and that doesn't exist - period.  It has never been CONFIRMED that he is.  

I'm not stupid, I've been playing since the start, over 4 years ago, and I know the story.  I also know that regardless of any strings you want to pin on a board, there is still no conclusive evidence that Stalker is a Tenno.  His codex entry stating he's a low guardian actually implies much the opposite... he is a lower rank than Teshin.  He is below Daxx... so doubtful he is just some Tenno...

I get my lore from in-game, not from youtube videos.  Although I don't like using sources outside of the game, even the wiki makes this point:


It was originally speculated that the Stalker could be a Tenno, however it is unknown if its true.

• It is possible that the Stalker was a servant of the Orokin Empire, since in his Codex entry he describes himself as hearing the Naga Drums that announced the end of the Old War "from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians". It is unknown if these Guardians were Dax soldiers or another warrior caste of the Empire.
• During The Second Dream Quest, the Lotus says that the "truth" of the Tenno Reservoir "drove the Stalker to madness".
• During The Second Dream, Hunhow rhetorically asks the Stalker "Who destroyed the Orokin, your way of life?" further suggesting that he might have been aligned with the Orokin or perhaps one of the Orokin himself.
• It is possible that the Stalker himself is confused about or does not remember his true nature and origins. This is hinted at by this line spoken by Hunhow during The Second Dream Quest: "You're asking yourself... Was I one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself."

Edited March 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

2 hours ago, Blade said:

I believe he meant the literal definition of sentient - not the in game sentients. 

Few examples when Warframes showed sentience - Rhino Prime's codex, where Proto Rhino went on a rampage before being calmed by a nearby Tenno, and in the second dream, where the Warframe broke Hunhow in half seemingly independent of our control. 

Sentience requires choice and freedom of thought, the ability to experience pains and pleasures and perceive them - not rampaging like a mindless animal.  Waframes by nature are feral, they don't act on sentient thought - and there is no such term in real life as "semi-sentience" - you are either sentient or you are not.

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.

Nothing even remotely close to what happened in Rhino's codex, that was just an unchained beast with no direction but to kill. 

And what happened in SD is as of yet unexplained - it could be sentience, or it could just be pure symbiotic survival instinct to protect what is in essence a part of itself.  If the Tenno dies, the Warframe essentially goes with it.  Or it could just imply that the Tenno are learning how to use Transference outside of the Somatic Link, even in the most rudimentary forms and in times of emergency.  That scene could mean alot of things that aren't yet explained.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[EvilDarknessAlien]

I am really confused this topic is talk about umbra or stalker?

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Just now, PhoenixShadowEvil said:

I am really confused this topic is talk about umbra or stalker?

It's about both because one guy said that Stalker is an Umbra Warframe because he's a Tenno who got trapped in a transference loop - and he stated it matter-of-factly.  I'm debunking his claims based on current lore.

Edited March 5, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[KiroTheTraveler]

Just now, PhoenixShadowEvil said:

I am really confused this topic is talk about umbra or stalker?

Well Stalker is probably related. He has the body of Excalibur Umbra but with a different helmet. And Hunhow refers to him as "shadow" which is what Umbra means.