Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

ivara is derived from ivar , not like we havent had gender changes prior with ember/ash also 

the garduda name is just the code name for now as revenant is also vlad is the ingame place holder for him a real name has yet to be revealed 

the thing with vlad[ph] i find interesting is if he is a sentient based frame , then is he part infested still or is he more of a sentient tamed by tenno ?

The feminine use 'Ivara', is from German basically meaning warrior of yew or a bow warrior. Thus the name used for Ivara the warframe. Ivar is masculine Ivara is not. Garuda is a masculine deity, it wouldn't make much sense being applied to a female warframe in any manner. Ember and Ash had different names during their gender swapped forms. Blaze and Smoke but its correct that their current names are gender neutral - unlike Garuda. Vlad, Revenant, or as the pictures and discussion in the Devstream mentioned, Eidolon Warframe is physically themed after Eidolons which can't work as I explainjed. Sentient stuff can't mix at all with Technocyte as Quill Onkko told his friend Konzu to pass along to us during Plague Star. As I mentioned in the previous post.

Even if an Eidolon was used to make or inspire (the warframe is leaking Eidolon energies so it would have to part of the warframe), the timeline makes that impossible as the Eidolons were made after the Old War and the Orokin Elite were executed by us for the most part. That could still leave some Orokin Elite like Ballas being able to figure some method for the construction defying what has been established in setting perhaps but then it would be impossible for there to be a prime in the traditional sense, either the prime would be of a different warframe that was twisted into the look of an undead Sentient; or there wouldn't be a prime at all since the warframe was made after the Fall itself to use Eidolons as an inspiration.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

^ Yeah curious about how that will be explained.

However I do have another theory about the Eidolon inspiration. What if these Eidolons aren't he first ones? This story specificly talks about how Eidolons came to be on Earth after the fall of the Orokin. This doesn't exclude the possibility of Eidolons appearing during the war on any other planets where they could have been exterminated or even still be present. Doesn't seem that impossible when you think about it that during the war sentients were blown up resulting in the appearance of eidolons, it is a very likely scenario.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

^ Yeah curious about how that will be explained.

However I do have another theory about the Eidolon inspiration. What if these Eidolons aren't he first ones? This story specificly talks about how Eidolons came to be on Earth after the fall of the Orokin. This doesn't exclude the possibility of Eidolons appearing during the war on any other planets where they could have been exterminated or even still be present. Doesn't seem that impossible when you think about it that during the war sentients were blown up resulting in the appearance of eidolons, it is a very likely scenario.

Its implied that this isn't the case, that the Eidolon - remnants of a gigantic Sentient held back until the Elite were killed to devestate Towers on ancient Earth - was unique but its at least a possibility, though not one Quill Onkko could have missed in telling us the Story of the Eidolons considering he has quantum awareness. The appearnace of the Eidolons like the Teralyst and co, even the Vormalysts are things that the original sentient didn't resemble. Its the 'undead' form of a Sentient, unlike Hunhow; the mind and soul of the gigantic Sentient was annihilated by Gara and Unum with what seemed like a Void bomb taken into the creature's core. Hunhow's main form is crippled in the seas of Uranus but its awareness is just as capable as ever to give a proper comparison.

[(XBOX)V0id 0m3g4]

3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Its implied that this isn't the case, that the Eidolon - remnants of a gigantic Sentient held back until the Elite were killed to devestate Towers on ancient Earth - was unique but its at least a possibility, though not one Quill Onkko could have missed in telling us the Story of the Eidolons considering he has quantum awareness. The appearnace of the Eidolons like the Teralyst and co, even the Vormalysts are things that the original sentient didn't resemble. Its the 'undead' form of a Sentient, unlike Hunhow; the mind and soul of the gigantic Sentient was annihilated by Gara and Unum with what seemed like a Void bomb taken into the creature's core. Hunhow's main form is crippled in the seas of Uranus but its awareness is just as capable as ever to give a proper comparison.

The weapon used by Gara to destroy the sentient was a Cascade Bomb.  

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

That also brings us to how much do we know about the Unum and Quills. Are they on Earth only, can the Unum precive visions/realities outside of Earth. So much that we don't know yet. Would be nice if we get the chance to enter the tower in the future and finally see the Unum(if it's possible that is)

[Urlan]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

That also brings us to how much do we know about the Unum and Quills. Are they on Earth only, can the Unum precive visions/realities outside of Earth. So much that we don't know yet. Would be nice if we get the chance to enter the tower in the future and finally see the Unum(if it's possible that is)

Quill has lines acknowledging and communicating to other Quill members and mentions other Towers continuously in contact with Unum and himself. You can hear them by sitting around in his room without chatting with him. The Wiki though has at least some recorded down for reading which are very interesting, basically hints of plot to be, happening perhaps, and already come to pass. So far as Quill has told us, the Unum is aware of potentiality and his growing ability to do so drove him to choose the path he did and become a Quill, while pushing his wife Saya into his best friend, Konzu's arms. Of the myriad potentials possible, it was the only choice he could tolerate. Quill, as far as we know from what he has said, will say, and says, has Quantum awareness, if this is his innate ability among the Quills, or something Unum conveys to her adherents, is something we don't yet know.

I think being able to enter the Unum and have adventures would be awesome though dangerous in some respects, seems the Ostron tradition of making masks is to prevent Gilded Lung and other strange problems gained from entering areas of the Unum that have been harvested or damaged and are still self repairing.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

^The Gilded Lung part is actually about lung illness that miners expirienced when mining due the dust particle getting into their lungs(from what I'm aware). The same thing could be happening here since they use explosives to remove parts that are ready for harvest which leaves clouds of dust.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

21 hours ago, Urlan said:

The feminine use 'Ivara', is from German basically meaning warrior of yew or a bow warrior. Thus the name used for Ivara the warframe. Ivar is masculine Ivara is not. Garuda is a masculine deity, it wouldn't make much sense being applied to a female warframe in any manner. Ember and Ash had different names during their gender swapped forms. Blaze and Smoke but its correct that their current names are gender neutral - unlike Garuda. Vlad, Revenant, or as the pictures and discussion in the Devstream mentioned, Eidolon Warframe is physically themed after Eidolons which can't work as I explainjed. Sentient stuff can't mix at all with Technocyte as Quill Onkko told his friend Konzu to pass along to us during Plague Star. As I mentioned in the previous post.

Even if an Eidolon was used to make or inspire (the warframe is leaking Eidolon energies so it would have to part of the warframe), the timeline makes that impossible as the Eidolons were made after the Old War and the Orokin Elite were executed by us for the most part. That could still leave some Orokin Elite like Ballas being able to figure some method for the construction defying what has been established in setting perhaps but then it would be impossible for there to be a prime in the traditional sense, either the prime would be of a different warframe that was twisted into the look of an undead Sentient; or there wouldn't be a prime at all since the warframe was made after the Fall itself to use Eidolons as an inspiration.

 

i think your forgetting about the sentinel fragment which states they are derived from sentients which also are orokin tech , meaning if sentinels can be prime so can sentients 

also edilonds are strange entities in their own right as they are in many ways mindless non sentient species of the "sentient" type more like a sub derived type, could help explain how its coupled with the infested at stages as weve made weapons and armor using sentient cores and nano spore , a more developed method could be a sentient frame 

 

[Urlan]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

i think your forgetting about the sentinel fragment which states they are derived from sentients which also are orokin tech , meaning if sentinels can be prime so can sentients 

also edilonds are strange entities in their own right as they are in many ways mindless non sentient species of the "sentient" type more like a sub derived type, could help explain how its coupled with the infested at stages as weve made weapons and armor using sentient cores and nano spore , a more developed method could be a sentient frame 

 

No, I am not forgetting the Cephalon Fragment about Sentinels. If you notice, the Sentinel information is from an in-universe source that says that some researchers 'believe' that Sentinels may be distantly related to the original state of of the Sentient. This is an in-universe theory - not fact - and as said, the Eidolons themselves are from one particular Sentient who only became the Eidolon creatures after the Old War. It couldn't be primed since it was after the people (besides Ballas and the Executor Avantus perhaps) were dead due to the Massacre. Avantus was killed soon after by Grineer but that is besides the point, even if Sentinels were related to Sentient, they are related to the original creatures before they got totally outside the Sol System boundaries. and Sentinels are able to be affected by Technocyte - Sentient are completely immune as stated in Plague Star -and if nothing else, it shows that they are not really a comparison.

On the other point of using Sentient cores to make weapons; we have not made a weapon using Sentient cores. Nanospores of course being the base stage form of Technocyte and very common in our construction of stuff. We trade Sentient cores to Quill for rep, and we destroy Brilliant and Radiant Shards for focus (somehow) but we haven't used Sentient parts for gear yet. Instead we use materials that have been affected by Sentient energy over long periods of time. Sentirum being thought to be fossilized Eidolon blood while Nyth is Breath of Eidolon that has become trapped in molten Iradite. We use those in some gear, mostly Magus and Virtuos in additon to Exodia of course only in their polished and cut, processed state.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

No, I am not forgetting the Cephalon Fragment about Sentinels. If you notice, the Sentinel information is from an in-universe source that says that some researchers 'believe' that Sentinels may be distantly related to the original state of of the Sentient. This is an in-universe theory - not fact - and as said, the Eidolons themselves are from one particular Sentient who only became the Eidolon creatures after the Old War. It couldn't be primed since it was after the people (besides Ballas and the Executor Avantus perhaps) were dead due to the Massacre. Avantus was killed soon after by Grineer but that is besides the point, even if Sentinels were related to Sentient, they are related to the original creatures before they got totally outside the Sol System boundaries. and Sentinels are able to be affected by Technocyte - Sentient are completely immune as stated in Plague Star -and if nothing else, it shows that they are not really a comparison.

On the other point of using Sentient cores to make weapons; we have not made a weapon using Sentient cores. Nanospores of course being the base stage form of Technocyte and very common in our construction of stuff. We trade Sentient cores to Quill for rep, and we destroy Brilliant and Radiant Shards for focus (somehow) but we haven't used Sentient parts for gear yet. Instead we use materials that have been affected by Sentient energy over long periods of time. Sentirum being thought to be fossilized Eidolon blood while Nyth is Breath of Eidolon that has become trapped in molten Iradite. We use those in some gear, mostly Magus and Virtuos in additon to Exodia of course only in their polished and cut, processed state.

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

we consume these to create armors/arcanes/weapons , all we know is they are strange rock like creatures that spawn and are very small , similarly the edilon is created from local matter and accumulated sentient parts /cells recombining 

 

in regards to edilon, they could have salvaged pieces from one after an initial formation and used it with orokin tech to make vlad prime ?

dunno , it will be curious to see how it fits lore wise , as it wont have a quest , presumably parts drop for edilons then ?

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

we consume these to create armors/arcanes/weapons , all we know is they are strange rock like creatures that spawn and are very small , similarly the edilon is created from local matter and accumulated sentient parts /cells recombining 

 

in regards to edilon, they could have salvaged pieces from one after an initial formation and used it with orokin tech to make vlad prime ?

dunno , it will be curious to see how it fits lore wise , as it wont have a quest , presumably parts drop for edilons then ?

 

Wisps are not confirmed to be Sentient though do seem to be creatively related. The Ostrons are known to use Wisps to aid in the crafting of items but its not said they are destroyed in doing so. Considering that the Wisps do not resemble the Eidolon forms of the Sentient but instead a complete Hunhow Shard or the remains of the Original Sentient it can not be 100% connected either way. Still, according to the game itself, they are unknown stone life-forms that inexplicably float around areas of water contaminated by Eidolon energy. The Eidolon is alternately a Sentient bunch of Synovia collecting former sentient parts and surrounding debris as prosthetic body parts to continue wandering around looking for what it lost, but not really having the will or memory to know exactly what it was. Vomalyst are alternately little floating heads with little limbs underneath, seeming to exist as physical forms but also as a form out of phase with reality.

In regards to the Eidolon, Sentient parts are totally immune to Technocyte and Orokin Elite that would know how to make a warframe would have been long dead by the time the Eidolon was formed - aside from Ballas who was the administrator essentially of the warframe program - and even then since this somehow changing of the nature of Sentient materials would happen after the Old War, it would preclude prime versions something DE would be unlikely to do. This leaves only time travel or reality warping. In Plague Star we also use Eidolon energy touched materials to assist in making Eidolon Phylaxis, a cocktail made to help poison technocyte like the Plague Star boil. This further from the Sentient side makes such a pairing impossible not even bringing the fact that warframes become conduits of Void energy as we are linked to them which would destabilize the Sentient materials. This is the lore-wise element of the game so far.

[Blakrana]

2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

Whilst theory on my part, what if the Wisps aren't actually Sentient in origin, but some form of creation by the Unum to monitor the plains and locations of arisen Eidolon? They're strictly tied to the shorelines of the plains, and are utterly benign...whilst also floating into the sky and vanishing if left be.

Could they be some kind of...cheap DIY remote camera construct using stones or the like, to check on Eidolon activity, and thus more common at night so Unum, and thus her Quills, are appraised of the locations and positions of Vomvalysts, Teralysts and the like. Not like the circle thing doesn't seem like a camera or eye to me, after all.

Of course, this is just conjecture on my part. As it is, we just don't know what Wisps are and odds are, probably aren't going to any time soon.

Apologies for going on, any rate. Just figured might offer an alternative explanation really.

[Urlan]

38 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Whilst theory on my part, what if the Wisps aren't actually Sentient in origin, but some form of creation by the Unum to monitor the plains and locations of arisen Eidolon? They're strictly tied to the shorelines of the plains, and are utterly benign...whilst also floating into the sky and vanishing if left be.

Could they be some kind of...cheap DIY remote camera construct using stones or the like, to check on Eidolon activity, and thus more common at night so Unum, and thus her Quills, are appraised of the locations and positions of Vomvalysts, Teralysts and the like. Not like the circle thing doesn't seem like a camera or eye to me, after all.

Of course, this is just conjecture on my part. As it is, we just don't know what Wisps are and odds are, probably aren't going to any time soon.

Apologies for going on, any rate. Just figured might offer an alternative explanation really.

No, that is an interesting view. They are seemingly observing spots or locations that the Eidolons can appear or disappear back into the waters and none show at the coasts for instance. While they do have an appearance reminiscent of Sentient, it could be that they are some form of observers used by the Quills or Unum.

[Blakrana]

12 hours ago, Urlan said:

No, that is an interesting view. They are seemingly observing spots or locations that the Eidolons can appear or disappear back into the waters and none show at the coasts for instance. While they do have an appearance reminiscent of Sentient, it could be that they are some form of observers used by the Quills or Unum.

And in some ways, if the "observer" theory is true, their absence on the coast makes a kind of sense; despite the presence of Vomvalysts there, Teralysts (least as I've seen) never go toward the coastal water bodies. Similarly, they're only where Eidolon vapour is generated, which is absent along the coastline.

Thinking about it, if they're extensions of the Unum in some form, could being able to use the Wisps as material be like how she grants the Ostrons the flesh of the tower as needed? Though again, this is conjecture and supposition. Just interesting seeing where things can go if followed through.

[Urlan]

4 hours ago, Blakrana said:

And in some ways, if the "observer" theory is true, their absence on the coast makes a kind of sense; despite the presence of Vomvalysts there, Teralysts (least as I've seen) never go toward the coastal water bodies. Similarly, they're only where Eidolon vapour is generated, which is absent along the coastline.

Thinking about it, if they're extensions of the Unum in some form, could being able to use the Wisps as material be like how she grants the Ostrons the flesh of the tower as needed? Though again, this is conjecture and supposition. Just interesting seeing where things can go if followed through.

Sure, but another point of interest is that we can make Wisps, with Unairu; which would suggest that the creatures are at least partially of Void energy origins. They of course are not exactly the same, but it further supports Wisps not being Sentient.

[Blakrana]

7 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Sure, but another point of interest is that we can make Wisps, with Unairu; which would suggest that the creatures are at least partially of Void energy origins. They of course are not exactly the same, but it further supports Wisps not being Sentient.

Wasn't aware the Unairu ability manifested something physical, what with not personally having it as yet, but an interesting point. Granted, if Wisps are of the Void...makes for a whole other mess of disturbing implications if true. Though would offer why employing them in construction of amps occurs, as you'd figure Sentient fragments would make poor substance to channel Void power through.

Funny how much intrigue surrounds essentially cute, fancy pet rocks. Least, from where I stand. Sometimes important information can come from the most innocuous of sources, after all. Apologies for going on, any rate.

[Urlan]

I agree! Cetus Wisps are strange and mysterious things, and I love it when the setting is fleshed out in a logical and engaging manner.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Yeah, love these conversations.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

makes me wonder if we will have to 

a) discover more umrbas via mini quests or taming

b) convert volunteers we find to make new umbras 

that could get dark...and with how the plots turning not unlikly 

[MirageKnight]

I think the only real legit concern some people might have about the introduction of Umbra variants of 'Frames...is that they have the potential of invalidating regular 'Frames with regard to the upcoming "New War".

Granted Umbral mods can be used by regular Warframes, but you can't add Umbral polarities to slots to optimize mod capacity and those Umbral mods can take up a whopping 45 capacity when maxed out and used together (and who in their right mind wouldn' use them together?). The other issue is the ability to switch out to your Operator and your Umbra 'Frame being able fight alongside you. That gives players a huge tactical advantage in a fight - especially against Sentient enemies.

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I think the only real legit concern some people might have about the introduction of Umbra variants of 'Frames...is that they have the potential of invalidating regular 'Frames with regard to the upcoming "New War".

Granted Umbral mods can be used by regular Warframes, but you can't add Umbral polarities to slots to optimize mod capacity and those Umbral mods can take up a whopping 45 capacity when maxed out and used together (and who in their right mind wouldn' use them together?). The other issue is the ability to switch out to your Operator and your Umbra 'Frame being able fight alongside you. That gives players a huge tactical advantage in a fight - especially against Sentient enemies.

I don't see much wrong with Umbra being stronger than normal warframes as Primes already represent this. To be fair though, it could always be setup so enemies are alerted about gear that is so swimming with Void energy like Primes and perhaps Umbra needing Normal mode warframes or weapons instead. Perhaps DE Steve will give us more information about what the 'Umbra' line of warframes will be represented by and how the rest will come eventually - what plans DE has with Umbra and Umbra mod sets.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

This thread is still alive and growing even after the release of the one we have been waiting for.

I still say that the Umbra line up should be the Hunters of the frames, starting with Excal and going with the others.

Then we should have a differing lineup for the Support and then the Stealth. 

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

12 hours ago, (XB1)DShinShoryuken said:

This thread is still alive and growing even after the release of the one we have been waiting for.

I still say that the Umbra line up should be the Hunters of the frames, starting with Excal and going with the others.

Then we should have a differing lineup for the Support and then the Stealth. 

 

well we know the umrbas are able to use umbral mods while umbra weapons sue sacrificial mods

further these mods all work in tanget against sentients better then the standard counterparts and excalibur U is able to debuf sentients on radial howl 

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

well we know the umrbas are able to use umbral mods while umbra weapons sue sacrificial mods

further these mods all work in tanget against sentients better then the standard counterparts and excalibur U is able to debuf sentients on radial howl 

Which is sorta weird isn't it? Nothing in the Sacrifice suggested Umbra being gifted intentionally with Anti-Sentient abilities or modifications but he has them. In fact, considering that Umbra was not made until after Ballas had betrayed the Empire, it makes even less sense. I don't doubt that will be the case, but so far, its a separation of game-play and story until explained.

[MirageKnight]

18 hours ago, Urlan said:

I don't see much wrong with Umbra being stronger than normal warframes as Primes already represent this.

Neither do I. If a comparison between between Excal P and Excal U is any indication, Umbra Frames will have stats that are identical to Primed versions. 

That said, the only significant difference would be the Umbral polarities and the fact you can have your 'Frame cover you when you decide to go Spoiler Mode...which is very handy at times.

I'm just saying that some people might see Umbras as having the potential to invalidate / sideline even Primed 'Frames when the New War finally gets to us - and I can kinda see why those people would be concerned.