Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

Neither do I. If a comparison between between Excal P and Excal U is any indication, Umbra Frames will have stats that are identical to Primed versions. 

That said, the only significant difference would be the Umbral polarities and the fact you can have your 'Frame cover you when you decide to go Spoiler Mode...which is very handy at times.

I'm just saying that some people might see Umbras as having the potential to invalidate / sideline even Primed 'Frames when the New War finally gets to us - and I can kinda see why those people would be concerned.

 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Which is sorta weird isn't it? Nothing in the Sacrifice suggested Umbra being gifted intentionally with Anti-Sentient abilities or modifications but he has them. In fact, considering that Umbra was not made until after Ballas had betrayed the Empire, it makes even less sense. I don't doubt that will be the case, but so far, its a separation of game-play and story until explained.

dunno it could be linked into this new strain that created the umrba line

helmith being the generic method used on normal/prime 

its possible the strain with sentience gained the ability to naturally be more effective at using the umbral/sacrifical mods as any frame can use them but only an umbra reduces their cost 

though with radial howl im unsure if that was intended or ballas accidentally created the greatest weapon against sentient , a frame that can debuf sentient 

[Blakrana]

I wonder if part of it could tie into just how mods are created in the first place. Could it be possible that Umbral mods aren't made but, like Umbra himself...grown? Though that then would still require it being influenced by Umbra's hatred of Ballas and the Sentients for its fate; poor term as it might be, a sort of "directed evolution" as part of the transformation from Dax to Umbra.

Sadly, I've nothing to really lean on as a basis for mods beyond general "the Orokin are very partial to incorporating organics into their technological constructs".

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

14 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

I wonder if part of it could tie into just how mods are created in the first place. Could it be possible that Umbral mods aren't made but, like Umbra himself...grown? Though that then would still require it being influenced by Umbra's hatred of Ballas and the Sentients for its fate; poor term as it might be, a sort of "directed evolution" as part of the transformation from Dax to Umbra.

Sadly, I've nothing to really lean on as a basis for mods beyond general "the Orokin are very partial to incorporating organics into their technological constructs".

well we know the skijiat is forged from umbras flesh [and possibly the nikana we saw in the 1st trailer], as it allows for sacrificial mods as well its presumably grown from him

[Blakrana]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

well we know the skijiat is forged from umbras flesh [and possibly the nikana we saw in the 1st trailer], as it allows for sacrificial mods as well its presumably grown from him

Indeed. So, if Umbral mods are just as much cultured as the Skiajati from the same material...does make me wonder really. But, again...relies on mods being grown as much as anything else.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Well based on that we could see also more weapons and mods with upcoming umbra frames as their signature weapons.

Edited July 16, 2018 by (PS4)reddragonhrcro

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Well based on that we could see also more weapons and mods with upcoming umbra frames as their signature weapons.

 

30 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Indeed. So, if Umbral mods are just as much cultured as the Skiajati from the same material...does make me wonder really. But, again...relies on mods being grown as much as anything else.

possible frames with their own backstory and more lore info would be nice , could further expand on some non prime weapons or even some comparable sidegrades to some primes 

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

dunno it could be linked into this new strain that created the umrba line

helmith being the generic method used on normal/prime 

its possible the strain with sentience gained the ability to naturally be more effective at using the umbral/sacrifical mods as any frame can use them but only an umbra reduces their cost 

though with radial howl im unsure if that was intended or ballas accidentally created the greatest weapon against sentient , a frame that can debuf sentient 

We do not know that Helminth was the genetic method used to create normal or Primes. Helminth is mentioned specifically as a method to create the bio-weapons and Umbra strains. Silvana is stated to have made the normal warframes before going AWOL after making Titania in Silver Grove at the behest of Margulis. Considering that both would have likely been horrified by people being turned into warframe like infested creatures just for their intent of making surrogate bodies as rehabilitation for the Tenno children, its likely Ballas did not share this fact until possibly after Margulis was executed.

Considering that no other warframe shares these polarities, and Umbra was made after Ballas went rogue, its unlikely he specifically changed Helminth's particular strain to allow the Umbra Excalibur to display such abilities or modifications. Considering though that Ballas normally did not make warframes, but rather administer their creation, it is possible that Helminth could have done this on its own but if so how? Technocyte is not shown to be particularly effective against Sentient and the creatures are in fact totally immune as per the Plague Star Event, so something would have to be specifically done to somehow make this Umbra warframe good against Sentient.

 

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

We should also consider that Umbra was kept prison on Lua and Lua ended being moved into the void. Maybe being kept there all this time while exposed to the void granted it more power?

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

We should also consider that Umbra was kept prison on Lua and Lua ended being moved into the void. Maybe being kept there all this time while exposed to the void granted it more power?

Perhaps, but in setting, primes are practically brimming with Void energy from their long exposure in the Void and stored in Void containers. They show now such modification from their original specs. Could it be that some unexplained modification was made to Umbra after Ballas completed the poor Dax's transformation and forced him to kill his own son? If so, who did this modification? The only person we know who had any access to the Lua facility was Ballas but who else could have accessed Lua before or during the moon's being hidden in the Void?

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Perhaps, but in setting, primes are practically brimming with Void energy from their long exposure in the Void and stored in Void containers. They show now such modification from their original specs. Could it be that some unexplained modification was made to Umbra after Ballas completed the poor Dax's transformation and forced him to kill his own son? If so, who did this modification? The only person we know who had any access to the Lua facility was Ballas but who else could have accessed Lua before or during the moon's being hidden in the Void?

The Lotus maybe? It's a stretch but she probably had such access. But then again the reasons as to why, how and what for are still there. To prepare for a possible sentient invasion?

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

The Lotus maybe? It's a stretch but she probably had such access. But then again the reasons as to why, how and what for are still there. To prepare for a possible sentient invasion?

That is a good point, but given the New War she is about to start, one might be willing to guess at her motives or those of her Natah personality.

[__S0ck__]

I really hope in he new war we see flashbacks of the actual fighting in the old war and we remember some weird sentient secrets and that’s how we beat them now.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

4 hours ago, Urlan said:

We do not know that Helminth was the genetic method used to create normal or Primes. Helminth is mentioned specifically as a method to create the bio-weapons and Umbra strains. Silvana is stated to have made the normal warframes before going AWOL after making Titania in Silver Grove at the behest of Margulis. Considering that both would have likely been horrified by people being turned into warframe like infested creatures just for their intent of making surrogate bodies as rehabilitation for the Tenno children, its likely Ballas did not share this fact until possibly after Margulis was executed.

Considering that no other warframe shares these polarities, and Umbra was made after Ballas went rogue, its unlikely he specifically changed Helminth's particular strain to allow the Umbra Excalibur to display such abilities or modifications. Considering though that Ballas normally did not make warframes, but rather administer their creation, it is possible that Helminth could have done this on its own but if so how? Technocyte is not shown to be particularly effective against Sentient and the creatures are in fact totally immune as per the Plague Star Event, so something would have to be specifically done to somehow make this Umbra warframe good against Sentient.

 

helmith was stated as a method of creating biostrain and warframes , but not umbra specifically we even noticed a supply of syrum in the memory playbacks probably the infection method and creation process of the umbra excalibur, though its possible its filled with helmith virus of some kind , helmith was the original culmination of the infested hybridization to utilize and infect people it seems as per the vitruvian , and with it stating there were willing and not willing. the time frames however have not been stipulated in any of these events, what we know is ballas was betraying the orokin to the sentient at the time of umbras creation, but not a when iirc, its possible it was earlier on then we anticipate as its directly linked to losing margilus , and as just the admin of the projects/management he was supposed to keep creating new frames to combat the incoming sentient hord

its possible the design team of excalibur Umbra were trying for a unmaned drone weapon as to not need to rely on tenno to operate , and given we 100% cloned umbra using scans and foundry its possible he was planned for mass production if successful . personally tactically speaking it would be advantageous for orokin to create a warframe with innate capability to fight sentient and make then stay at a reduced level , while also not relying on a 3rd party thats unpredictable [the tenno] and simply mass produce and unleash them on the sentient, amke things easier

 ballas was a possibly method for sentient to remove said weakness , he was involved with it being originally implementation and might know a work around for it and thus free the sentient of void poison , might explain the vlad warframe then , as we know alad v figured out a way for it to infect mechanics and such , possible there was a method prior he utilized ?  or it was more specilized....

 

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

helmith was stated as a method of creating biostrain and warframes , but not umbra specifically we even noticed a supply of syrum in the memory playbacks probably the infection method and creation process of the umbra excalibur, though its possible its filled with helmith virus of some kind , helmith was the original culmination of the infested hybridization to utilize and infect people it seems as per the vitruvian , and with it stating there were willing and not willing. the time frames however have not been stipulated in any of these events, what we know is ballas was betraying the orokin to the sentient at the time of umbras creation, but not a when iirc, its possible it was earlier on then we anticipate as its directly linked to losing margilus , and as just the admin of the projects/management he was supposed to keep creating new frames to combat the incoming sentient hord

its possible the design team of excalibur Umbra were trying for a unmaned drone weapon as to not need to rely on tenno to operate , and given we 100% cloned umbra using scans and foundry its possible he was planned for mass production if successful . personally tactically speaking it would be advantageous for orokin to create a warframe with innate capability to fight sentient and make then stay at a reduced level , while also not relying on a 3rd party thats unpredictable [the tenno] and simply mass produce and unleash them on the sentient, amke things easier

 ballas was a possibly method for sentient to remove said weakness , he was involved with it being originally implementation and might know a work around for it and thus free the sentient of void poison , might explain the vlad warframe then , as we know alad v figured out a way for it to infect mechanics and such , possible there was a method prior he utilized ?  or it was more specilized....

 

Helminth is stated as being used to make the bio-weapons that came before warframes. Warframes themselves stated as being made by Silvana at Margulis' behest. The abilities and such were likely pulled from the infested bio-weapon program as Ballas exerted more control - before going rogue himself - but that is not said. The Vitruvian says volunteers, willing and not so willing were taken from the ravaged outer colonies to begin the Bio-weapon research program and were turned in to prototypes toward the the path of technocyte research Silvana, the Archimedian of Technocyte Bio-Engineering likely used later with Warframe design. Specifically, the Umbra strain used on the Old Dax, is said to be specially formulated by Helminth at Ballas's direction but Silvana makes no mention of using Helminth instead of her own Bio-engineering skills and as depressed as she became with the warframes being used for the war effort, she would have been pushed far worse if she knew anything of the original bio-weapon project's origins.

Think of it like this, Sentient attack>Infestation tech delved back into>Helminth created (likely out of a person) to craft strains for researchers towards bio-weapon creatures>researchers connect Tenno being able to calm bio-weapon organisms that otherwise are difficult to control>Silvana, the expert of Technocyte Bio-engineering is brought in to make surrogate bodies for Tenno so they can interact with others without melting people with Void energy emanations>Margulis is wounded by a Tenno, probably Rell and Ballas has Margulis Executed when she doesn't denounce the Tenno, Ballas begins moving the warframe projects towards weapons of war if it wasn't already>Silvana goes AWOL and merges with the Silver Grove using Titania as a filter to survive a transference attempt>Ballas presents Primed warframes and weapons for particularly exceptionally preforming Tenno>Ballas goes traiter quietly but his communications are intercepted by a Dax that was once his friend>Ballas intentionally has Helminth brew a special strain of Warframe technocyte and then infects his Old Dax with the concoction focing the soon to be Umbra to murder his precious son in the process. Then we have Hunhow and Natah's plan to get rid of the Orokin Elite and us Tenno, so we don't really have too much room for stuff here and Lotus betrays her kin and the plan when she decides to have us kill the Elite but then puts us to sleep on Lua and hides the moon in the Void. Umbra is sealed in the Lua lab at this time until we during 2nd Dream open it into real space and the damage to the moon allows the Umbra Excalibur to escape and eventually make his way to Earth. Ballas grabs Lotus on Lua later during Apostasy Prologue and then uses her and her mimic shards to kill Umbra Excalibur on Earth in that Courtyard - we only know this due to Lotus sending us a transmission of the kill through her helmet. Then we piece together leftovers of Umbra and use a Vitruvian to set Ordis closer to Ballas' original programming for our buddy so that Ordis can clone the dead Umbra using the Vitruvian designs of the entity.

I am not sure I follow on Ballas removing Sentient weakness? He made Umbra Excalibur using a strain specifically made by Helminth for the deal - thus Umbra from an old loyal to the Empire Dax - why would Ballas want Umbra to be anti Sentient when he had just sold out his people to the Sentient and was doing this deal to the Old Dax as an act of spite? Sentient are also immune to Technocyte normally, can't be infected, at least Eidolon energy actually helping poison huge infested organisms - though Eidolon energies are possibly different - but Sentient fear Void energy which we normally power warframes with, and can use ourselves. Ballas in fact told Hunhow about the Lua Reservoir stating it was the real problem for Hunhow's people over the warframes. Why after defecting would Ballas have a special batch of Technocyte made to create a warframe with specific anti-sentient attributes? That would leave Lotus or Helminth as doing this behind Ballas' back.

[motorfirebox]

9 hours ago, Urlan said:

Why after defecting would Ballas have a special batch of Technocyte made to create a warframe with specific anti-sentient attributes? That would leave Lotus or Helminth as doing this behind Ballas' back.

Well, the Mirage Prime intro tells us that particularly strong-willed Helminth subjects can affect the final form of the Warframe they become. It's entirely possible that the Umbra polarities weren't Ballas's idea at all. It's even possible, I think, that Ballas intended to turn the Old Dax into a standard-issue Excalibro, and that the Umbrafication came entirely from the Old Dax's rage and grief. I don't have the quest dialogue in front of me so maybe there's something in there that says otherwise.

Edited July 17, 2018 by motorfirebox

[Urlan]

54 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Well, the Mirage Prime intro tells us that particularly strong-willed Helminth subjects can affect the final form of the Warframe they become. It's entirely possible that the Umbra polarities weren't Ballas's idea at all. It's even possible, I think, that Ballas intended to turn the Old Dax into a standard-issue Excalibro, and that the Umbrafication came entirely from the Old Dax's rage and grief. I don't have the quest dialogue in front of me so maybe there's something in there that says otherwise.

Ballas had Helminth make a special strain just for hte Old Dax as part of the torture the Executor had designed for the soon to be self aware warframe. Ballas implies that someone changed the design of his warframes, but considering the Warframes proper were made by Silvana, this line from him becomes more suspect in what exactly Ballas means. Considering only Umbra warframes are going to have these Umbral polarities, and mods, and there is no way to put them in with say forma, it would appear these mods and polarities are something that were intended during the transformation, but even past that, Umbra Excalibur has Radial Howl which for some reason resets Sentient resistance. The original bio-weapon, almost proto warframes though were made using human subjects so its perfectly possible that Ballas had a lady turned into a proto-Mirage which was a Harlequin instead of what he intended, that said, I doubt that to be a result by the time Umbra was being made.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

11 hours ago, Urlan said:

Helminth is stated as being used to make the bio-weapons that came before warframes. Warframes themselves stated as being made by Silvana at Margulis' behest. The abilities and such were likely pulled from the infested bio-weapon program as Ballas exerted more control - before going rogue himself - but that is not said. The Vitruvian says volunteers, willing and not so willing were taken from the ravaged outer colonies to begin the Bio-weapon research program and were turned in to prototypes toward the the path of technocyte research Silvana, the Archimedian of Technocyte Bio-Engineering likely used later with Warframe design. Specifically, the Umbra strain used on the Old Dax, is said to be specially formulated by Helminth at Ballas's direction but Silvana makes no mention of using Helminth instead of her own Bio-engineering skills and as depressed as she became with the warframes being used for the war effort, she would have been pushed far worse if she knew anything of the original bio-weapon project's origins.

Think of it like this, Sentient attack>Infestation tech delved back into>Helminth created (likely out of a person) to craft strains for researchers towards bio-weapon creatures>researchers connect Tenno being able to calm bio-weapon organisms that otherwise are difficult to control>Silvana, the expert of Technocyte Bio-engineering is brought in to make surrogate bodies for Tenno so they can interact with others without melting people with Void energy emanations>Margulis is wounded by a Tenno, probably Rell and Ballas has Margulis Executed when she doesn't denounce the Tenno, Ballas begins moving the warframe projects towards weapons of war if it wasn't already>Silvana goes AWOL and merges with the Silver Grove using Titania as a filter to survive a transference attempt>Ballas presents Primed warframes and weapons for particularly exceptionally preforming Tenno>Ballas goes traiter quietly but his communications are intercepted by a Dax that was once his friend>Ballas intentionally has Helminth brew a special strain of Warframe technocyte and then infects his Old Dax with the concoction focing the soon to be Umbra to murder his precious son in the process. Then we have Hunhow and Natah's plan to get rid of the Orokin Elite and us Tenno, so we don't really have too much room for stuff here and Lotus betrays her kin and the plan when she decides to have us kill the Elite but then puts us to sleep on Lua and hides the moon in the Void. Umbra is sealed in the Lua lab at this time until we during 2nd Dream open it into real space and the damage to the moon allows the Umbra Excalibur to escape and eventually make his way to Earth. Ballas grabs Lotus on Lua later during Apostasy Prologue and then uses her and her mimic shards to kill Umbra Excalibur on Earth in that Courtyard - we only know this due to Lotus sending us a transmission of the kill through her helmet. Then we piece together leftovers of Umbra and use a Vitruvian to set Ordis closer to Ballas' original programming for our buddy so that Ordis can clone the dead Umbra using the Vitruvian designs of the entity.

I am not sure I follow on Ballas removing Sentient weakness? He made Umbra Excalibur using a strain specifically made by Helminth for the deal - thus Umbra from an old loyal to the Empire Dax - why would Ballas want Umbra to be anti Sentient when he had just sold out his people to the Sentient and was doing this deal to the Old Dax as an act of spite? Sentient are also immune to Technocyte normally, can't be infected, at least Eidolon energy actually helping poison huge infested organisms - though Eidolon energies are possibly different - but Sentient fear Void energy which we normally power warframes with, and can use ourselves. Ballas in fact told Hunhow about the Lua Reservoir stating it was the real problem for Hunhow's people over the warframes. Why after defecting would Ballas have a special batch of Technocyte made to create a warframe with specific anti-sentient attributes? That would leave Lotus or Helminth as doing this behind Ballas' back.

-wall of text , my eyes  x.x - 

much of this is speculative / conjecture , we can of course assume it, but its speculative till we have more data

 I know stallordD has done some work on trying to setup time-line and lore info, but even then at this time its up to users at this time to perceive it till more data comes along to make the info tie in that way

in regards to ballas removing sentient weakness, i refer to void toxicity the sentient have, id say its possible the sentient wanted him for his knowledge and or info on their own creation , possibly to remove that innate mechanic . or shed more light on the creation so maybe a new generation could be created without it, as a species it makes sense they would explore every aspect to rid that "flaw" from themselves ?

i dont know if ballas was the one who created the batch to do it or possibly it was a side effect of engineering side, as stated the intent of warframes were to combat the sentient its only natural the team involve din this would look to modifying one for better sentient combat potential as that was the imminent threat , rng or what ever the case we know the end result was a resistant, damaging mod creation geared to sentient combat along with the ability for the frame itself to wield a void howl to remove the buff sentient have 

seems more likely the engineering side was the direct cause 

 

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

-wall of text , my eyes  x.x - 

much of this is speculative / conjecture , we can of course assume it, but its speculative till we have more data

 I know stallordD has done some work on trying to setup time-line and lore info, but even then at this time its up to users at this time to perceive it till more data comes along to make the info tie in that way

in regards to ballas removing sentient weakness, i refer to void toxicity the sentient have, id say its possible the sentient wanted him for his knowledge and or info on their own creation , possibly to remove that innate mechanic . or shed more light on the creation so maybe a new generation could be created without it, as a species it makes sense they would explore every aspect to rid that "flaw" from themselves ?

i dont know if ballas was the one who created the batch to do it or possibly it was a side effect of engineering side, as stated the intent of warframes were to combat the sentient its only natural the team involve din this would look to modifying one for better sentient combat potential as that was the imminent threat , rng or what ever the case we know the end result was a resistant, damaging mod creation geared to sentient combat along with the ability for the frame itself to wield a void howl to remove the buff sentient have 

seems more likely the engineering side was the direct cause 

 

If you feel its conjecture, please show where I am assuming a timeline. Stallord has done his own work trying to put together fan theories - you can find his threads on the forums and on Reddit for that purpose, some are essentially guesses that are held as consensus from what we know so far. Ballas hasn't been mentioned as trying to modify the Sentient and nothing has been said in universe to show Ballas has interest in doing so. We know how Sentient were approved in the Crewman synthesis entry only due to having that all important vulnerability to Void Energy - even though Ballas manipulated that Council session - the Orokin Elite rules had guidelines against allowing something to have free-will separate from the Orokin Elite's rule. We don't have any examples of any warframes with raw Void energy and in fact see that Bio-weapon organisms ate people to get energy in the Rhino Prime Codex entry. So why would the Umbra, made after Ballas, the guy in charge of the warframe project defected would he have Helminth make the Umbra warframe have these so far unique boosts against Sentient - his allies now?

What engineering side are you talking about?

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

5 minutes ago, Urlan said:

If you feel its conjecture, please show where I am assuming a timeline. Stallord has done his own work trying to put together fan theories - you can find his threads on the forums and on Reddit for that purpose, some are essentially guesses that are held as consensus from what we know so far. Ballas hasn't been mentioned as trying to modify the Sentient and nothing has been said in universe to show Ballas has interest in doing so. We know how Sentient were approved in the Crewman synthesis entry only due to having that all important vulnerability to Void Energy - even though Ballas manipulated that Council session - the Orokin Elite rules had guidelines against allowing something to have free-will separate from the Orokin Elite's rule. We don't have any examples of any warframes with raw Void energy and in fact see that Bio-weapon organisms ate people to get energy in the Rhino Prime Codex entry. So why would the Umbra, made after Ballas, the guy in charge of the warframe project defected would he have Helminth make the Umbra warframe have these so far unique boosts against Sentient - his allies now?

What engineering side are you talking about?

personally i stay away from reddit ._ . not my cup of tea , though im on stallordDs discord 

perspective view of lore is at its core what intrigues us, you have sections you believe are tied together, thats fine, im not saying your idea is not merited or such . i dont see them as that, but as ive had issues in past with people stating posts here as lore gospel , i have to state this is "speculative" "conjecture"  ect to make sure thats understood as a theory/lore discussion , when as its a theoretical tie in of timeline points. we can assume them to be that way, but we cant say they are cannon till we have more concrete data if that makes sense? we have no evidence of a true timeline other then speculation. 

 

im theorizing ballas has info on him that was pulled from the orokin archives or his own involvement , that could help sentients in some way , would be a interesting development, not stating its a fact.  we know he has a vitruvian watch device. i kinda want to wear this myself it looks good lol xD

i recal rhino p codex eating flesh , which i guess one can assume for fuel/ energy ?  i dunno , weve assumed warfarmes have some sort of core or system to store internal void energy and thus thats the energy pool , its possible excalibur umrbas strain ahs some innate void tethering in that power and thus how it debufs , when he roars we see energy bolts come off him , so its possible hes somehow able to tap into his pool and use it to release raw void particles ? its a hypothesis 

im assuming you dont understand the facet of the engineering team i mention? 

scientists/engineers which ever coined term suits you, as  stated  ballas is only the "admin" or one who headed the project and or directed what was to be done with a prospective frame variant

such as in prime trailers we hear him stating details and aspects to the audience like a sales pitch , which it possibly could be....?

hes the department head so to speak but dosnt mean he himself works with the subjects beyond simple testing and or performance reviews meaning there was a group of individuals also involved in the group developing the strains of helmith / umbral(?) , we know that marguilus and silver groves engineer were not the only infested scientists involved in the development team but were the leads. so rational is when developing the umbra strain perhaps the team possibly  created some tweaks in the strain that had targeted results in the frames capabilities against sentients 

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

personally i stay away from reddit ._ . not my cup of tea , though im on stallordDs discord 

perspective view of lore is at its core what intrigues us, you have sections you believe are tied together, thats fine, im not saying your idea is not merited or such . i dont see them as that, but as ive had issues in past with people stating posts here as lore gospel , i have to state this is "speculative" "conjecture"  ect to make sure thats understood as a theory/lore discussion , when as its a theoretical tie in of timeline points. we can assume them to be that way, but we cant say they are cannon till we have more concrete data if that makes sense? we have no evidence of a true timeline other then speculation. 

 

im theorizing ballas has info on him that was pulled from the orokin archives or his own involvement , that could help sentients in some way , would be a interesting development, not stating its a fact.  we know he has a vitruvian watch device. i kinda want to wear this myself it looks good lol xD

i recal rhino p codex eating flesh , which i guess one can assume for fuel/ energy ?  i dunno , weve assumed warfarmes have some sort of core or system to store internal void energy and thus thats the energy pool , its possible excalibur umrbas strain ahs some innate void tethering in that power and thus how it debufs , when he roars we see energy bolts come off him , so its possible hes somehow able to tap into his pool and use it to release raw void particles ? its a hypothesis 

im assuming you dont understand the facet of the engineering team i mention? 

scientists/engineers which ever coined term suits you, as  stated  ballas is only the "admin" or one who headed the project and or directed what was to be done with a prospective frame variant

such as in prime trailers we hear him stating details and aspects to the audience like a sales pitch , which it possibly could be....?

hes the department head so to speak but dosnt mean he himself works with the subjects beyond simple testing and or performance reviews meaning there was a group of individuals also involved in the group developing the strains of helmith / umbral(?) , we know that marguilus and silver groves engineer were not the only infested scientists involved in the development team but were the leads. so rational is when developing the umbra strain perhaps the team possibly  created some tweaks in the strain that had targeted results in the frames capabilities against sentients 

I am referencing events as they have been connected in the game and you are giving your personal theories. You don't seem to understand the point, no warframes aside from Umbra have Anti-Sentient attributes. The Bio-weapons are also not stated as having this trait. I am well aware of the meaning of engineering and have pointed out characters who specifically are singled out as having created the Technocyte strains, designing them. In this case, we have Helminth - a technocyte organism itself - and Archimedian Silvana, the expert of Technocyte Bio-Engineering during the time period of Margulis being given control of the Zariman children following the Rhino Prime Codex entry events. We have no examples of Ballas working hands-on with the warframe design, we just have him calling himself Umbra's creator or designing of Technocyte research. It is illogical to consider a 'team' worked on Helminth's unique design of the Umbra strain as Ballas states that he had the infested organism make the Umbra strain infecting the Old Dax special. Also Illogical that he would bring up the fact he just turned his well known loyal Dax into an warframe as a punishment for trying to reveal his betrayal to the Council. While its certainly possible that Ballas made other 'Umbra' warframes, its not logical at all to consider that Ballas had other people involved with his very secretive torture of his old friend.

I am well aware of the meaning of engineering, and what the word conjecture means. I want you to explain what you mean by the usage of the words in the context of this discussion. The researchers involved in the bio-weapon projection show we have fun in-universe elements of these researchers, but they are not said to be designers and no other warframes - if we assume or head-canon that Silvana lied totally about making the warframes - have anti-Sentient abilities if they are the result of the Bio-weapon research? It is quite the stretch. Considering that Ballas only mentions getting this special strain from Helminth itself, there is no 'team' to approach (even if there was, he would likely have to ironically kill them afterward considering) so we have two other entities involved that could have made Umbra have these modifications. Helminth itself could have made such a strain - somehow despite the game's lore telling us that Infested have no such ability and in fact Sentient are immune to Technocyte infection and infested poisoned by Eidolon energies - but it could be responsible for making such modifications strain side, since it is singularly credited for this variant. The other option is Lotus since she had full access to Lua, both as Natah under the guise of Ballas' Sentient aide and later hiding within the Reservoir after taking the moon into the Void. We know from the quest that Umbra escaped Lua, with Ordis suggesting due to damage caused to the Lab during the forced re-entry into Real Space from Void Space so its unlikely we would have anyone that specifically could equip Umbra could have finagled with him afterward, before Natah and Ballas then killed Umbra. If Umbra was designed to have these unique attributes, and wasn't modfied specifically afterward by Ballas or Natah; then leaves Umbra itself developing the ability changes and modifications during his short range of freedom between 2nd Dream and Sacrifice. If you have something to give a deeper understanding of the timeline so far however, I would welcome it if such an explanation could clarify this gap.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

sigh another speculative wall of text 

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Well now we know that the Quill's are present on Venus aswell.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Well now we know that the Quill's are present on Venus aswell.

wonder how thats gonna work

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

I've been contemplating Vlad warframe and I came to a disturbing hypothesis  On its lore and function
So theoretically it's a vampire frame . Aka undead frame
Instead of it being made with live sentient piece or edilon it's using parts that were reanimated and reattached to an infested frame body
weve assumed its a live sentient thus it shouldn't be possible
But if it's literally an undead  vampire, , edilon fragment Frankenstein to a frame it makes more sense

We gave proof warframe bodies can connect and attach sentient components via the sentient arm blade ,so it's possible a more developed method is the answer for its creation
I think it makes sense

That and its powers kit also leads me to believe it served a function similar to nidus
Nidus was created as a sort of key to the infested hive and with intent to control it
Vlad on the other hand can infect and control sentiments and cause them to further infect the sentient masses
Spreading and establishing itself as a central mind among mass amounts of sentient
It literally can drop into a sentient outpost and possibly control all units and make them fight for it . Which would be a brilliant strategy to use against them in the war ?

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Yeah it's a possibility. And considering that revenant is the description for an undead, a dead that came back to life to seek revenge it makes sense.