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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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I think Apostasy Pologue is part of The Sacrifice. Perhaps Apostasy is not meant as a name, but as a noun. Apostasy is basically abandonment of a religion by a person. Perhaps in the quest we will learn about some horrible new truth that will change us and our beliefs(maybe about the Orokin?).

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i'm just gonna shamelessly post my thread link in here, since the commenters in there had some interesting thoght as well  https://forums.warframe.com/topic/904965-sacrificeapostasy-hypothesis/?tab=comments#comment-9370358

 

edit: i'm posting the link so that i don't have to copy-paste everything and the commenters post, not to steer you in my thread, keep the discussion here it's easier

 

Edited by TheBarge

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8 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Here is my opinion:

- seems interesting.

- Umbra looks like a cool ‘frame.

- The teaser suggests that it has to do with either Ballas himself or with the consequences of something he did.

- Let’s wait and see because we know very little else, that’s why it’s a teaser.

- Christ I hope DE don’t go with the profoundly lame and awful idea that the first generation of Warframes were the parents from the Zariman who magically survived through the power of retcon so that the Tenno can be wondrously revealed to be 100% innocent and never did anything wrong ever because they are magically beautiful innocent wholesome saviour space children after all, and Transference is really the power of Love.

 

Sweet Jesus Christ DE NO!

I mean, it could be the warframes were made from the parents of the Tenno.

 

Just what's left of them. They still died, but their corpses proved equally valuable to the living tenno. Both were scarred by the void after all...

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On 1/8/2018 at 10:43 PM, Jeoxz said:

Theory: Umbras start out as regular frames but are "tainted" by killing an Orokin(possibly involving the kuva they possess and preventing transference).

a)It would mean only a few Umbra frames existed originally(The first ones being the ones that killed the Orokin leaders at the betrayal) and then as we exterminated the Orokin more popped up.

b)The means for creating an Umbra(killing an Orokin) are available to us now that Ballas went to pick up the Lotus. 

c)And the sacrifice wouldn't be for us but to the Lotus as we kill Margulis' lover to get that Umbra. (Maybe if we do kill him she doesn't come back and we lose her transmissions forever.)

On 1/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, KelsierSurvivor said:

Wow. I like that ALOT. A sacrifice isn't really a sacrifice if we don't give up something we care about. Dude, you nailed it. I would be torn in half by this. I mean, I have posted many a comment about what lengths I will go to to get Lotus back, but... wow. I mean, really, WOW. 

This is something that would truly be impactful to me as a player. 

Thank you for this theory. I think DE might have a winner right here.                        [<EDIT>SHORTER]

 

****************************************************************************************************************

Spoiler

Test Commence:

Test Subject: Shadow of 10 O; Umbra.

∞Loading∞                                                Note: Some Idea was picked up in Forums, but not all Credit is Mine. 

A) Sun Light 

Spoiler
  • Operator Imprison both "Margulis" and "Ballas" into Eternal Sleep FOREVER x2. 
  • Lotus is no More, Natah deemed to be returned to the Sentinels (HunHow), almost Killing the Operator in the Process from of Stopping Natah. 
  • The System is more "Peaceful", Orokin is not longer Active, leading to Sentient being the Main Threats.

Special Outcome:   Operator also Gain Power, loose Emotions, slowly Grow "Oni" 1 Horn. Prime WarFrame Passive UP.

Requirement: FULL Orokin, Loyalty to Orokin Empire.      SECRET  QUEST: OROKIN's REBIRTH!

**Can not Obtain Excalibur Umbra. Earn other Umbras through Umbra's Ways.**

B) Grays Areas

Spoiler
  • Operator Pull Ballas's Pull Ballas' Costume to revealed an Ancient Infested. Ballas already Transfer to Next Body (more Desirable).
  • Ballas was DErping; Margulis and Ballas Chilling at Unreachable and Far Away Solar System. 
  • Natah was Taken by "What Stalker?" back to HunHow, Sentient goes Full Crazy. The System ESCALATE into Further Chaos as Operator is Left "Emotionally Disabled".

Special Outcome: Orphan Child Become Stronger/Destructive. Finally a GROW UP Option?

Requirement: Partial Light/Dark, No Complete Light/Dark.

**ONLY way to Obtain Excalibur. Umbra (Other Umbra WarFrame can be Obtained through "Forgotten Technique" (Series of Task) for Each Umbras. (Release like Primes also).**

C) Dark Moon

Spoiler

Operator Push Ballas, Ballas seem to Fail to Death, transferred to Next Body. Location: Unknown.

Lotus has returned, but not 100% Recovery, in trade Operator/Remaining Tennos is Oppose Enemies to Ballas. 

Special Outcome: Operator Grow not 1, but TWO 2 Horns. MinTW become Normal, Operator Loose Control on Occasion.

If you are Captured by Ballas's Force, your Operator would be injured (Including Special Focus/Features) will be Disabled while in 7 Day Recovery). 

**Can not Obtain Excalibur Umbra. Earn other Umbras through Umbra's Ways.**

 

Spoiler

OROKIN SELF-IMPLODE in 1 Second.                                                              HAPPY NEW YEAR!

****************************************************************************************************************

Edited by DesFrSpace

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48 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

****************************************************************************************************************

  Reveal hidden contents

Test Commence:

Test Subject: Ubra

∞Loading∞

Proceeding!

Typing... 

 

****************************************************************************************************************

Okay?

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On 09/01/2018 at 4:43 AM, Jeoxz said:

And the sacrifice wouldn't be for us but to the Lotus as we kill Margulis' lover to get that Umbra. (Maybe if we do kill him she doesn't come back and we lose her transmissions forever.)

I think everyone is forgetting that the Sacrifice is mainly about the Warframes. Lotus and Ballas are more of a side plot. 

The Sacrifice is also most likely referring to something done in the past.

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On 08.01.2018 at 2:48 PM, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Of course, there's also a possibility that we get 2 rewards (a frame and a weapon) while they get 1 (a weapon).

IMO that's exactly what's going to happen. Unlike Excalibur Prime in global build, Excalibur Umbra Prime in China build is always accessible, but only for real money. So no one is truly restricted from getting it. Chinaframe even sells their founder pack with discounts.

lqef7df3_o.png

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47 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Excalibur Umbra Prime in China build is always accessible, but only for real money.

Tmw china made things the way they should have been in the whole world.

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My friend said this:

It may be a quest you should choose between Margulis or Natah. Which continues to live in Lotus? 

Also Umbra means Dark side. It is possibly related to both war within and chains of harrow. The hey kiddo ghost has the same eyes and voice as the end of war within. So it possibly is the dark side, the man in the wall. If Umbra is the dark, we should find the light.

so yeah we may finally understand why we see the other operator. 

 

Edited by Crimson_Ruby_313
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32 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Tmw china made things the way they should have been in the whole world.

Because they weren't desperate, I guess. Warframe was already an established and profitable game by the moment it got there.

Edited by Ksaero
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2 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Because they weren't desperate, I guess. Warframe was already an established and profitable game by the moment it got there.

Yup, their Founders program is just to help rake in more profits, sometimes also known as milking a cash cow.

Ours was made because they going bankrupt so it was either sell those packages successfully or close down Warframe.

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1 minute ago, Ksaero said:

Because they weren't desperate, I guess. Warframe was already an established and profitable game by the moment it got there.

That promise is nothing but a proof that no matter how desperate you are, trying to solve things thinking in the near future may create issues in the long one. Iirc Steve said in a prime time that the promise was made thinking that the game would last at best 18 months, yet here it is 2 montjs away from it's 4th anniversary in open beta thanks to the continuous support of a loyal playerbase.

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12 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

That promise is nothing but a proof that no matter how desperate you are, trying to solve things thinking in the near future may create issues in the long one. Iirc Steve said in a prime time that the promise was made thinking that the game would last at best 18 months, yet here it is 2 montjs away from it's 4th anniversary in open beta thanks to the continuous support of a loyal playerbase.

Can't really blame them though.

I mean it's easy to say that in hindsight but when your company is going bust and your employees and even you are facing possibilty of going unemployed in the next few months, with possible debts that also need to be repayed, it's not so easy.

I mean back then the quality of the game and even the need for platinum wasn't even that high since there wasn't much content to use them on so if they didn't make the packages that way, they might not even make it past a few months, let alone a year or 4.

Chinaframe can pull this off because even if the packages don't do well, they still have tons of stuff to sell like other Prime Accesses.

There's also less proof needed for people to pay the money since it's really hard to imagine how the game with so much content like POE can disappear in the next few months or year either. Unless they pull a Destiny or something😂😂😂

Edited by OoKeNnEtHoO

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14 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Can't really blame them though.

I mean it's easy to say that in hindsight but when your company is going bust and your employees and even you are facing possibilty of going unemployed in the next few months, with possible debts that also need to be repayed, it's not so easy.

I mean back then the quality of the game and even the need for platinum wasn't even that high since there wasn't much content to use them on so if they didn't make the packages that way, they might not even make it past a few months, let alone a year or 4.

Don't forget that founder pack was available until november 1st 2013 (after being extended once) , which is around update 10 when the derelict and conclave were implemented, the void was already a thing and the game was starting to show more of it's potential after a couple of events. Sure, it may not have been that appealing during CB, but if I had to guess, i'd bet that most of it's sales weren't there but after OBW and sales kept increasing as november 1st was getting closer.

Have you ever asked yourself, what if DE had removed founder access on march 16 (as it was originally supposed to be) instead of extending it until november first?

Edited by ----Legacy----

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38 minutes ago, Crimson_Ruby_313 said:

It may be a quest you should choose between Margulis or Natah. Which continues to live in Lotus?

That's pretty much my take on it as well. Right now we have three factions vying for Lotus' loyalty. Hunhow wants Natah back, Ballas wants to reunite with Margulis, and the Tenno want Lotus(in lore, anyway). Maybe it's Lotus' choice and she has to sacrifice her other two identities for the one that remains.

"Their(Natah's/Lotus') life for yours."

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1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Don't forget that founder pack was available until november 1st 2013 (after being extended once) , which is around update 10 when the derelict and conclave were implemented, the void was already a thing and the game was starting to show more of it's potential after a couple of events. Sure, it may not have been that appealing during CB, but if I had to guess, i'd bet that most of it's sales weren't there but after OBW and sales kept increasing as november 1st was getting closer.

Have you ever asked yourself, what if DE had removed founder access on march 16 (as it was originally supposed to be) instead of extending it until november first?

Well, likelihood is revenue and by extension profits will be less and the company might still go bankrupt.

DE is a company after all so if they found a way that made them more money, it's not unexpected that they will try to increase the sales of it.

One of the marketing techniques companies use to entice more people to buy is limited time sales. Steam (Valve) is an example of 1 that uses this almost weekly to daily.

The fact that they can even increase content when they were going bankrupt goes to show that the developers were not spending the Founders Pack revenue on vacations and unnecessary stuff but on development of more content.

As such, the extension can be a result of 2 possibility:

(a) DE was milking a new found cash cow.

(b) DE needed more money to finance game development and daily business operations after spending the money earned before March 16.

Personally, I am inclined to think it was probably a bit of both but more leaning towards (b) based on their performance and attitudes to the game and community in these past 4 years.

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22 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

so that the Tenno can be wondrously revealed to be 100% innocent and never did anything wrong ever because they are magically beautiful innocent wholesome saviour space children after all

[disgusting animated picture of eye bleeding goes here]

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On 1/8/2018 at 12:48 PM, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 

Yeah, it's exactly as LazerSkink said.

I saw a video of some chinese guy playing plague star on Chinaframe recently so the PC version is definitely still there.

I think this is one angle we can look at the whole issue to speculate on The Sacrifice as well.

Since Excalibur Umbra looks visually same as Excalibur Umbra Prime, the quest which if Chinaframe also gets can't possibly give Excalibur Umbra because to the Chinese Founders, that's the same as giving out Excalibur Umbra Prime but dropping "圣装".

Therefore, they must either be not allowed to do the quest which either means the lore from that quest won't matter (which is unlikely) or allowed to do the quest but given a different reward (which I think is more likely).

Since they can't possibly make a quest that mentions or gives an Umbra without the reward being an Umbra and since it can't be visual clone of Excalibur Umbra Prime for the chinese non-Founders, they will either receive another Umbra which we will get later or receive Umbra related gear.

Of course, there's also a possibility that we get 2 rewards (a frame and a weapon) while they get 1 (a weapon).

To me this just looks like Warframe in Chinese. If you look at the usernames shown in the video and try to check their profile in-game they're all there. It's the Global build in Chinese.

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7 minutes ago, Kisutora said:

To me this just looks like Warframe in Chinese. If you look at the usernames shown in the video and try to check their profile in-game they're all there. It's the Global build in Chinese.

Anyways, PC Chinaframe still runs.

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9 minutes ago, Kisutora said:

To me this just looks like Warframe in Chinese. If you look at the usernames shown in the video and try to check their profile in-game they're all there. It's the Global build in Chinese.

Oh, damn.

I had thought it was a video of Chinaframe.

Footage of Chinaframe seems to be very very rare on Youtube.

Apart from this, the only 1 that I knew of was the one showcasing Excalibur Umbra.

Anyway, not sure if wiki is accurate, but at least it does confirm they have an almost identical build short of a few items.

I am actually more interested in whether they have lore differences but unfortunately, I don't think it is explicitly stated on the wiki.

I had initially thought they had taken a non-operator approach because I saw some marketing materials that showed human faces or skin under the frames but it has since been found to be fan art that was stolen by Chinaframe and not cannon.

Edited by OoKeNnEtHoO

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6 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Well, likelihood is revenue and by extension profits will be less and the company might still go bankrupt.

DE is a company after all so if they found a way that made them more money, it's not unexpected that they will try to increase the sales of it.

One of the marketing techniques companies use to entice more people to buy is limited time sales. Steam (Valve) is an example of 1 that uses this almost weekly to daily.

And this is where thing gets contradictory, offering anything as a once in a lifetime never coming back exclusive deal with a set expiration date abruptly cuts the profit that a company can make from it since after the date arrives, the only potential profit from such deal is 0 with no way to ever increase it without pissing the people who bought it only because of it's exclusivity instead of doing it to support a company with a product they like but that could stop being produced due to the lack of funds.

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3 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I am actually more interested in whether they have lore differences but unfortunately, I don't think it is explicitly stated on the wiki.

I visit their website once in a while and it seems like it's identical in terms of story. Definitely remember The War Within page.

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2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

And this is where thing gets contradictory, offering anything as a once in a lifetime never coming back exclusive deal with a set expiration date abruptly cuts the profit that a company can make from it since after the date arrives, the only potential profit from such deal is 0 with no way to ever increase it without pissing the people who bought it only because of it's exclusivity instead of doing it to support a company with a product they like but that could stop being produced due to the lack of funds.

Well, companies always love profits.

Such exclusive deals actually appear in many other games because people tend to like exclusive stuff and are willing to pay more to not be the same as other people which is why cosmetics sell so well.

However, the term "Founders" usually are taken with a pinch of salt because those companies are usually big game companies which just wanna rake in profits fast during the release and when hype is at the highest (prepurchase items and prepurchase packs are very common these days), unlike in DE's case where they were genuinely going bankrupt.

Most of the time, companies end up breaking the promise and just sell the stuff that were marketed as exclusive for even more money later on because they see a high demand for it.

From what I heard from some players, there are actually people willing to pay USD$1,300 for Founder accounts on the black market.

Thus, if DE really wants to rake in profits, they can easily just make packs with Excalibur Prime that sell for that amount or even do it auction style to make more money.

However, the main issue will probably be pissing off a lot of Founders who would have just bought the disciple pack instead of paying USD$50 to USD$250 and back then, this might have meant the closure of the game.

There is also the issue of reputation loss due to the fact that nobody can ever trust their word on "exclusivity" ever again. Well, maybe some still will but they are probably the ones who will take whatever DE says as ironclad truth anyway.

Then, not to mention the breaking of T&Cs which some of the richer Founders may take advantage to ask for compensation.

This is probably why they rather just go through the trouble of making Excalibur Umbra for Chinaframe and even releasing it with lore and a quest of its own on Global build than just releasing Excalibur Prime outright.

Actually, the fact that they can even release Excalibur Umbra, Nikana Prime and Spira Prime to us and not have an issue with the Chinaframe Founders goes to show there is definitely a difference in treatment to the 2 different groups of Founders and also the T&Cs.

This method of selling exclusive stuff (Excalibur Umbra case) after receiving the money is actually the common method most company use, albeit a rather unethical one, but at least DE is not doing it for money since they will not be charging us for it.

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49 minutes ago, Teloch said:

[disgusting animated picture of eye bleeding goes here]

Hey guys. Lads. Chaps. Bros and sistren. Fellows. Lasses. Errybody. 

 

It will make for a more genuinely mature and developed story if you allow the Tenno to be characterised as morally ambiguous and sometimes even monstrous. Characters who appear physically young but have lifetimes of horror and violence behind them, and who nonetheless are either trying to do the right thing or are just trying to get along and figure out who they are now are more interesting than magical beautiful pure innocent space saviour messiah children. Please, for the love of God, stop it. Stop it.

 

Other details, huh?

- The Tenno are clearly monstrous figures, predators swimming in an ocean of violence. We see this and live it. The hypocrisy is getting annoying. Can we at least acknowledge that the Tenno themselves are creatures of violence who have committed acts of terror?

- The best science fiction which features magical space messiah figures also makes it clear that space messiahs are NOT A GOOD THING. Dune is a seminal work featuring a centuries long conspiracy to produce a true superhuman, and when he arrives it becomes clear that he is morally driven but also monstrous in his will, and that psychic foresight is a trap which can doom humanity. If the story of Warframe is the story of how the beautiful innocent saviour space orphans save everyone, that would be like writing a version of Dune in which Paul Atreides saves everyone with his amazing desert psychic drug powers and everyone is so happy and humanity lives in a utopia forever afterwards.

- While we’re at it, are we ever going to address the fact that the screwed up state of the Solar system is largely the fault of the Tenno? They wiped out the Orokin command castes (who had it coming, fair enough) and then they had a chance to drag everyone who was left to a negotiating table and say ‘We will make peace, and things will be better. Fix the Grineer so they’re not genetically doomed to die of old age or cancer in their forties. Build sane, sustainable habitats for civilian populations. Decide what kind of government you want, and then stick to it. We will help you. Be better than the people we just slaughtered, and build a lasting peace which isn’t sustained by the suffering of a genetic underclass who will inevitably rebel, how about that?’

Instead, the Tenno vanished into cryosleep. It was like setting fire to a house full of people just to get rid of one nest of rats, running away, and then coming back the next morning and saying to the newly homeless inhabitants ‘Oh wow, this place is a mess! I’ll help you hunt down the people who did this!’

 

 

Why do I get the feeling that I care more about whether Warframe tells a coherent and internally consistent story than the devs do?

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11 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Warframe tells a coherent and internally consistent story than the devs do?

I don't know who wrote (or writing) the lore/plotline, but I suspect that they would be better off writing code and scripts. But in all fairness, WF is no longer a sci-fi or cosmoopera (if it ever was), but a fable set in space decorations. Remember, that WF is the "dream game" of certain people (or even a decision-making person) and that individual(s) might be more interested in telling the story they crave to tell regardless of how ludicrous, banal, and cringy it may really be. Besides, writing isn't WF's main selling point, so... yeah.

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