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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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1 hour ago, Tellakey said:

Has anybody considered the possibility that the reason for most of the staff working on the next open area is that development on The Sacrifice is closing on the finish line?  

de burned that kind of blind optimism out of me over the several years i've already been waiting for umbra.

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5 hours ago, Sajochi said:

It was said on the devstream the next cinematic quest (umbra) is the main focus.  Doesn't mean they can't work on other aspects of the game.  PoE needed all hands available, but normally they have multiple teams working on different things. 

Unless the content is significant enough(art, resources, play space, you know things on the plains level), telling them to stop everything for a 1 hour cinematic quest is really bad. 

it was also said right after that most of the team was working on something else, which seems incredibly contradictory at best. "the sacrifice is our #1 priority but also we are prioritizing more the next landscape"

it doesn't matter which project they do first because the time they require will always be the time they require, the only difference is one was promised several years ago and still hasn't landed, and the other is something we didn't even know was a possibility until last year and weren't even expecting soon. 

Edited by Cubewano
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Conspiracy theory:

DE made excalibur available that early only because he's gonna be an ingredient for Umbra.BUT! you'll need more:

Blueprint (from the sacrifice quest)

Excalibur Vanilla

30.000 kuva - Sibear shenanigans

Systems which are a 0.62% drop of Incursion Rot C *wink wink*

Neuroptics which are a 0.024% drop of Conculysts *wink wink*

Chassis which is a 3.02% drop from White Charger Eximus

:^)

Disclaimer: although i am a little bit unhappy/salty with some droprates i still like the devs and the game and this is more of a joke, also a small hommage to different conspiracies around umbra. I love you all guys. Even the nullifiers.

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14 minutes ago, Calumniis said:

Blueprint (from the sacrifice quest)

Excalibur Vanilla

30.000 kuva - Sibear shenanigans

Systems which are a 0.62% drop of Incursion Rot C *wink wink*

Neuroptics which are a 0.024% drop of Conculysts *wink wink*

Chassis which is a 3.02% drop from White Charger Eximus

Nah, just add his components as rare drop from Shadow Stalker. Dilute them droptables more. That's [DE] wey.

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37 минут назад, Calumniis сказал:

Conspiracy theory:

DE made excalibur available that early only because he's gonna be an ingredient for Umbra.BUT! you'll need more:

Blueprint (from the sacrifice quest)

Excalibur Vanilla

30.000 kuva - Sibear shenanigans

Systems which are a 0.62% drop of Incursion Rot C *wink wink*

Neuroptics which are a 0.024% drop of Conculysts *wink wink*

Chassis which is a 3.02% drop from White Charger Eximus

:^)

Disclaimer: although i am a little bit unhappy/salty with some droprates i still like the devs and the game and this is more of a joke, also a small hommage to different conspiracies around umbra. I love you all guys. Even the nullifiers.

And that is worth for it

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14 часов назад, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim сказал:

Umbra is just pointless. Who needs 3x of the same reskinned power creep frame with the same abilities.

 

Who uses normal frames once you have a prime?

Who's gonna use primes if umbra is better?

Who's gonna use umbra is primes are better?

It's plain lazy and a cash grab.

Umbra should not exist.

Reskin that better in stats than prime excal

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6 часов назад, Cryptix123 сказал:

This. Umbra got delayed because of the Plains of eidolon, but now that its done they're re-devoting their resources to the Umbras. The next cinematic quest will be coming out before new Eidolons show up.

Agreed, thanks to closing amazing eternals and hiring new devs, DE have enough resources to solve umbra problem once and for all, as soon as posible

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4 hours ago, Wind_Blade said:

Take a lot of time ?? yea les than 1 year is a lot of time (And the first one who tells me that Umbra exists for a longer time I would remind him that he was only official at the last tenon and therefore DE did not start working on it until that moment (or 1-2 months before)

no, umbra was official when on a 2015 devstream DE officially announced it was coming to our region. 

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14 hours ago, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim said:

Umbra is just pointless. Who needs 3x of the same reskinned power creep frame with the same abilities.

 

Who uses normal frames once you have a prime?

Who's gonna use primes if umbra is better?

Who's gonna use umbra is primes are better?

It's plain lazy and a cash grab.

Umbra should not exist.

They already stated Umbra can't be bought, so get rid of the cash grab idea. 

All frames are going to be primed. Not all frames are going to be Umbras. Excalibur whose only upgrade is currently limited to founders deserves another variant. 

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what did i miss...*skims* 

...why are some post literally old ideas that are answered in faq....

._ .

umbras are not a reskin , clearly stated by the devs...repeatedly 

to the one talking about why want 3 versions of same frame. well simply put umbras are to be different from their prime counterparts, new mechanic means build variation and further game play development from the meta stagnation we have 

as stated before , we dont know if this is also still realavent but  prime # > umbra # as all frames get a prime not an umbra 

hopefully umbras become a thing like prime imo , i dont mind getting more frames. more flavors/variety ..ect

umbras are to be equivalent to primes, and will be a side grade of sorts to our understanding  , the stats per the china builds is not official for the global unit

 

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1 hour ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

umbras are to be equivalent to primes, and will be a side grade of sorts to our understanding  , the stats per the china builds is not official for the global unit

 

And not to mention, Excalibur Umbra will be a direct upgrade to Excalibur, as stated by the wiki page. That, and I'm also hoping that Excalibur Prime (and therefore Umbra) will get more upgrades than just Excalibur Prime's +25 armor 

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46 minutes ago, (PS4)dillonman202 said:

And not to mention, Excalibur Umbra will be a direct upgrade to Excalibur, as stated by the wiki page. That, and I'm also hoping that Excalibur Prime (and therefore Umbra) will get more upgrades than just Excalibur Prime's +25 armor 

Oh FFS, now you guys aren't reading.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA IS NOT EXCALIBUR UMBRA PRIME.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA PRIME IS CHINESE SERVER ONLY.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA HAS BEEN STATED MULTIPLE TIMES TO BE NOT JUST A STAT UPGRADE OVER EXCAL PRIME.

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Just now, Cryptix123 said:

Oh FFS, now you guys aren't reading.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA IS NOT EXCALIBUR UMBRA PRIME.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA PRIME IS CHINESE SERVER ONLY.

EXCALIBUR UMBRA HAS BEEN STATED MULTIPLE TIMES TO BE NOT JUST A STAT UPGRADE OVER EXCAL PRIME.

I think you misread what he wrote. Nowhere in his post did he mention Excalibur Umbra Prime.

What he said was that he hopes Prime (not Umbra Prime) AND Umbra receive stat boosts, because the mere 25 armor of Excal Prime is laughable at best.

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4 hours ago, Valor said:

They already stated Umbra can't be bought, so get rid of the cash grab idea. 

All frames are going to be primed. Not all frames are going to be Umbras. Excalibur whose only upgrade is currently limited to founders deserves another variant. 

Is there an official quote on both your statements?

- umbras that can't be bought

- not all frames will be umbra-ed

 

I find it hard to believe that there will be no monetisation for something that DE spends time and resources to develop.

 

And why should they stop at one frame to be umbra-ed. It's not about Excalibur prime. It's opening the floodgates for reskinned content.

Edited by --Q--Ascended-Seraphim
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11 minutes ago, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim said:

Is there an official quote on both your statements?

- umbras that can't be bought

- not all frames will be umbra-ed

 

I find it hard to believe that there will be no monetisation for something that DE spends time and resources to develop.

 

And why should they stop at one frame to be umbra-ed. It's not about Excalibur prime. It's opening the floodgates for reskinned content.

If I remember right they said that on one of the devstreams that not all frames will have their Umbra version, just the primary ones like Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, frost and so on, now which devstream they said that I don't remember.

Now about not able to buy Umbras then I have no idea and I'm sure I didn't hear it anywhere until now.

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43 minutes ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

If I remember right they said that on one of the devstreams that not all frames will have their Umbra version, just the primary ones like Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, frost and so on, now which devstream they said that I don't remember.

Now about not able to buy Umbras then I have no idea and I'm sure I didn't hear it anywhere until now.

They said that Excalibur Umbra would be a very limited series of Umbra "gear" (not specifying warframes only) on their very first post about it back in 2015 (where they also said that it would be released asap lol. Their concept of Umbra may have changed a little bit in these 2.5 years.)

source

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35 minutes ago, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim said:

- umbras that can't be bought

And why should they stop at one frame to be umbra-ed. It's not about Excalibur prime. It's opening the floodgates for reskinned content.

 

20 minutes ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

Now about not able to buy Umbras then I have no idea and I'm sure I didn't hear it anywhere until now.

After searching I haven't been able to find anything saying that Umbras can't be bought, might've been just my misinterpretation when DE said "Umbras will have their own unique form of acquisition" and I interpreted that to mean obtained unlike any other frame in the game, be it through farming or through plat.

To your second point, DE has explicitly said they want Umbra to be special, e.g. not just another skin, many times over.

 

As far as Umbras being limited to certain frames;

Just now, ----Legacy---- said:

(borrowing Legacy's sauce, thanks!)

source

 

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2 hours ago, Valor said:

I think you misread what he wrote. Nowhere in his post did he mention Excalibur Umbra Prime.

What he said was that he hopes Prime (not Umbra Prime) AND Umbra receive stat boosts, because the mere 25 armor of Excal Prime is laughable at best.

Thank you :smile:

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6 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

umbras are not a reskin , clearly stated by the devs...repeatedly 

to the one talking about why want 3 versions of same frame. well simply put umbras are to be different from their prime counterparts, new mechanic means build variation and further game play development from the meta stagnation we have 

hopefully umbras become a thing like prime imo , i dont mind getting more frames. more flavors/variety ..ect

If they do end up like Primes, then they are reskins. 

We have to accept this fact in order to understand what introducing Umbras will do.

Yes, they give you another 6,000 mastery points.

Yes, they look different.

But if they play the same or have only small numerical changes, they are not "new frames", they are reskins; Just packaged up as new.

I mean if indeed Primes are considered as "new frames" then why do people sell off their normal versions once they get prime version? Yet, they do not sell off Ember when they get Loki?

Why? The reason is because one is a reskin while the other is a new frame.

Look beyond Excalibur because getting a reskin once may be swallowable for most but getting it 2 times is an issue.

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Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

If they do end up like Primes, then they are reskins. 

But if they play the same or have only small numerical changes, they are not "new frames", they are reskins; Just packaged up as new.

I mean if indeed Primes are considered as "new frames" then why do people sell off their normal versions once they get prime version? Yet, they do not sell off Ember when they get Loki?

Why? The reason is because one is a reskin while the other is a new frame.

1. Except the devs repeated multiple times they will not be like Primes.

2. You're making assumptions on literally zero evidence. "New mechanic" sounds a bit different from "small numerical changes"

3. Not quite sure what you're going for here. Primes have always been marketed as upgrades with updated visuals and polarities, and it's never been anything different.

Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Look beyond Excalibur because getting a reskin once may be swallowable for most but getting it 2 times is an issue.

It's not just a reskin. Not sure how many times it needs to be said. "With Excalibur Prime on Founders lockdown in the Global build, we were tasked to create a version of Excalibur Prime for the China PC build...but it had to be different. Our Prime Warframes varied in Light and Dark colour schemes, so Mynki thought a dark version of Excalibur Prime would be cool. At the time, we were also working on PBR and newer cloth physics, and Umbra was an early test of that with extra shiny trim and a flowing syandana. The result was Excalibur Umbra. However...the concept for Umbra's design is not nearly as intriguing as our plans for it in the future. - Dave, Producer!

 

Now, IF Umbra comes out and it's just a reskin, then fine, you'd be right to be mad. But until then, this is just a kneejerk reaction to completely unfounded hypotheses lacking any sort of historical precedent.

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17 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

If they do end up like Primes, then they are reskins. 

We have to accept this fact in order to understand what introducing Umbras will do.

Yes, they give you another 6,000 mastery points.

Yes, they look different.

But if they play the same or have only small numerical changes, they are not "new frames", they are reskins; Just packaged up as new.

I mean if indeed Primes are considered as "new frames" then why do people sell off their normal versions once they get prime version? Yet, they do not sell off Ember when they get Loki?

Why? The reason is because one is a reskin while the other is a new frame.

Look beyond Excalibur because getting a reskin once may be swallowable for most but getting it 2 times is an issue.

Totally agree, and the point I'm getting at.

I don't understand the inclusion of a reskinned power creep frame that will invalidate all primes.

Once again look beyond Excalibur prime.

This is opening the flood gates for extreme 3x duplication from your Embers to Garas.

All that formas and reactors wasted on frames that you know the next best reskinned power creep version will overtake.

And why should they stop at umbra series? Why not a fourth power creep series that will invalidate Umbras in future?

It's a very very lazy way to make another round of money off the community with already existing content.

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14 minutes ago, Valor said:

1. Except the devs repeated multiple times they will not be like Primes.

2. You're making assumptions on literally zero evidence. "New mechanic" sounds a bit different from "small numerical changes"

3. Not quite sure what you're going for here. Primes have always been marketed as upgrades with updated visuals and polarities, and it's never been anything different.

It's not just a reskin. Not sure how many times it needs to be said. "With Excalibur Prime on Founders lockdown in the Global build, we were tasked to create a version of Excalibur Prime for the China PC build...but it had to be different. Our Prime Warframes varied in Light and Dark colour schemes, so Mynki thought a dark version of Excalibur Prime would be cool. At the time, we were also working on PBR and newer cloth physics, and Umbra was an early test of that with extra shiny trim and a flowing syandana. The result was Excalibur Umbra. However...the concept for Umbra's design is not nearly as intriguing as our plans for it in the future. - Dave, Producer!

 

Now, IF Umbra comes out and it's just a reskin, then fine, you'd be right to be mad. But until then, this is just a kneejerk reaction to completely unfounded hypotheses lacking any sort of historical precedent.

Fact of the matter is, as long as the ONLY similarity umbra shares with their prime counterparts is the name. Then it'll be acceptable.

If Umbras have a completely new skin, skill sets, mechanics, stats, from their primed counterparts, them it'll be acceptable.

IF having an umbra means that the primes are no longer needed, then it's just a sugar coated power creep reskinned. Just like how there is no point using the normal frames once you have a Prime.

And that is not acceptable as "new" content.

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25 minutes ago, Valor said:

1. Except the devs repeated multiple times they will not be like Primes.

2. You're making assumptions on literally zero evidence. "New mechanic" sounds a bit different from "small numerical changes"

"Different from Primes" can indeed mean totally new concepts that blow our minds like operators, BUT it can also mean a passive that is not getting energy from orbs in the Void tilesets and slightly different stats which once you put on mods, will not be noticable.

25 minutes ago, Valor said:

3. Not quite sure what you're going for here. Primes have always been marketed as upgrades with updated visuals and polarities, and it's never been anything different.

What I am going for here is to highlight the fact that changing the looks and altering some numerical stats on an item does not make it new.

We should never call or accept something as new if it feels and plays like a reskin because we are deluding ourselves and giving the ok to DE that all they need to do is reskin something and change one or two numbers and the community will believe it is brand new content.

25 minutes ago, Valor said:

It's not just a reskin. Not sure how many times it needs to be said. "With Excalibur Prime on Founders lockdown in the Global build, we were tasked to create a version of Excalibur Prime for the China PC build...but it had to be different. Our Prime Warframes varied in Light and Dark colour schemes, so Mynki thought a dark version of Excalibur Prime would be cool. At the time, we were also working on PBR and newer cloth physics, and Umbra was an early test of that with extra shiny trim and a flowing syandana. The result was Excalibur Umbra. However...the concept for Umbra's design is not nearly as intriguing as our plans for it in the future. - Dave, Producer!

And this is the problem I am highlighting here. That Excalibur Umbra Prime Chinaframe got is a reskin. All it got was some change in look and 25 armor and 25 energy.

Varying light and dark colour schemes, newer cloth physics, PBR and flowing syandanas do not make a new frame. It is called a reskin.

Unless Chinaframe did not get the Excalibur rework and still uses Super Jump then it is arguably a different frame because the build needed to make that Excalibur work compared to ours is different and the way it is played will be different. Otherwise, a new frame that only looks different but offers no real gamplay changes is a reskin, regardless of how DE chooses to call it.

If we consider it as new then that means if they pull the same stunt with our Excalibur Umbra or basically the whole Umbra line, we will take it as new even if it is a reskin.

We cannot just call a reskin a new frame and pretend that it is.

Edited by OoKeNnEtHoO
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34 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Snip

 

40 minutes ago, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim said:

Snip

When did you guys lose your faith in DE? Seems like you are immediately thinking of the worst possible scenarios. 

DE has voiced several times that Umbra won't be just a reskin, that it will have its own mechanic and means of acquisition. (Which, mind you, was not the same case for Umbra Prime. DE never said Umbra Prime was gonna have its own mechanics or means of acquisition.) 

There has never been a precedent for Umbras, we have no idea what they have planned because we have nothing to realistically compare it to, and no,  Primes do not count because they are functionally the same as base variants, and have never been promised to have their own functioning mechanics unlike Umbra. 

I feel like it's a bad idea to base your criticism on Umbra solely around all of the things that could potentially go wrong,  without having any basis/precedent for it. 

Also, Chinaframe's version of Excal Prime basically is a reskin, but eh, I'll chock that up more to Changyou's  influence rather than DEs design decision.

 

tl;dr don't assume the worst of the unknown until it's actually here, then we can decide on it as a community. 

Edited by Valor
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1 hour ago, Valor said:

 

When did you guys lose your faith in DE? Seems like you are immediately thinking of the worst possible scenarios. 

DE has voiced several times that Umbra won't be just a reskin, that it will have its own mechanic and means of acquisition. (Which, mind you, was not the same case for Umbra Prime. DE never said Umbra Prime was gonna have its own mechanics or means of acquisition.) 

There has never been a precedent for Umbras, we have no idea what they have planned because we have nothing to realistically compare it to, and no,  Primes do not count because they are functionally the same as base variants, and have never been promised to have their own functioning mechanics unlike Umbra. 

I feel like it's a bad idea to base your criticism on Umbra solely around all of the things that could potentially go wrong,  without having any basis/precedent for it. 

Also, Chinaframe's version of Excal Prime basically is a reskin, but eh, I'll chock that up more to Changyou's  influence rather than DEs design decision.

 

tl;dr don't assume the worst of the unknown until it's actually here, then we can decide on it as a community. 

Er..what? This has nothing to do with my faith in DE. I am not criticising anything either because as you have mentioned, there is nothing that has been released yet to criticise on.

 

That said, this is a speculation thread.

There is nothing that has been confirmed apart from:

(a) Excalibur Umbra Prime was released in Chinaframe.

(b) Excalibur Umbra will be released in Globalframe because he is going to be the first in the line of Umbras.

Everything else is still pretty much speculation and up to interpretation (the magnitude of the difference from the "different acquisition method", "different passives", "different mechanics" may or may not actually be significant enough to be classed as "different").

I never said that it definitely will be a reskin.

I said that we should not delude ourselves that a reskin is otherwise if it is just a change in some stats and looks.

I said this because I have time and time again seen people saying that Excalibur Umbra is going to be a new frame but when they describe it, they are clearly just describing a reskin of Excalibur Prime, without care of the other Umbras in the future, because their sight is completely focused on filling the missing spot Excalibur Prime holds in their collection.

 

In fact, I have also posted other forms of speculation on it where the Umbras will let us create custom frames so people who want Excalibur Prime 2.0 can put Excalibur abilities on it while those who do not can put other frames' abilities.

I also posted speculation that Umbra will have abilities that are tweaked to offer an opposing playstyle like a healing Ember Umbra or a DPS Trinity Umbra or a buff support Excalibur Umbra in the past.

I even made speculations that Umbra passives will be that their presence alongside a Prime version will buff both frames and this allows everyone to form teams of 2 Primes and 2 Umbra counterparts to make optimal teams.

 

That said, if it does turns out to be a reskin with some stats difference:

If it turns out to just be same as Excalibur Prime, I won't care much to get it but I will get it for Mastery.

If it turns out better than Excalibur Prime, I will get it for Mastery but I am not gonna spend forma releveling a new frame because the forma cost and time spent releveling doesn't justify a bit of stats when I have no issues with current gameplay using Excalibur Prime or even Excalibur (yes, I kept mine from the starter choice) for that matter, and Excalibur Prime still holds a special spot for me anyway.

If it turns out to be just a sidegrade to Excalibur Prime and the difference is just in stats, I won't care to get it much either, because the forma cost and time spent releveling doesn't justify a bit of stats when I have no issues with current gameplay using Excalibur Prime or even Excalibur.

In all three cases, I get nothing from it because it is just a reskin. The only time I will see any gameplay changes is if it has different abilities, a super drastic play mechanic like operator, or a ridiculously different passive that will make me want to use it.

 

Now, this is only an issue for Founders for now because we got the Prime version of Excalibur but this same problem is gonna hit everyone (which still includes Founders like me and/or people who have gotten all the Prime frames) when the rest of the Umbra line gets released and that is why we need to look at this objectively and manage our expectations.

Edited by OoKeNnEtHoO
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