Jump to content

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]


Recommended Posts

True, but the name of the quest is 'The Sacrifice." This could mean that the Operator has to be 'sacrificed' in some way in order to give the Umbra frame their sentient state. This could be similar to the Harrow situation. Also in the trailer, it shows a Lotus pod (which houses an Operator in The Dream.) So maybe something happened to that Operator and The Excalibur Umbra got activated? Or maybe you need to kill something with the sword (which is stone, aka Excalibur fairytale) to make an Umbra?

Edited by LuciferIsDeath
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

you can't treat is as fact when none of us have any information at all.

But we do. It's right there, in the trailer. I'm not saying everything has remained the same, but the core concepts most likely have not changed. The first War Within trailer for example had Continuity as "Conjunction". That changed obviously, but the concept didn't. It's clear that DE have had this story planned out for a while.

5 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

Headcanon, by definition, means someone intepreting some part of a story in a way that is not supported by said story.

Umbra being a tenno-free warframe is really not headcanon as it has actual backing. The warframes are stated to be "Tenno tamed, but only just". They've always been hinted to have some form of sentience. This is part of the lore. The Second Dream ending is the most obvious example of this. The Valkyr Prime trailer and Rhino Prime codex as well. It is supported by the story and since it looks like DE haven't changed the context we found in the leaked scripts, it seems obvious to me that they are going to continue with that storyline.

Edited by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

But we do. It's right there, in the trailer. I'm not saying everything has remained the same, but the core concepts most likely have not changed. The first War Within trailer for example had Continuity as "Conjunction". That changed obviously, but the concept didn't. It's clear that DE have had this story planned out for a while.

Umbra being a tenno-free warframe is really not headcanon as it has actual backing. The warframes are stated to be "Tenno tamed, but only just". They've always been hinted to have some form of sentience. This is part of the lore. The Second Dream ending is the most obvious example of this. The Valkyr Prime trailer and Rhino Prime codex as well. It is supported by the story and since it looks like DE haven't changed the context we found in the leaked scripts, it seems obvious to me that they are going to continue with that storyline.

I agree.

While it is true that DE has not start working on the quest until recently, it is likely they do at the very least have a gist of what they want to tell.

Designing a story is like driving to a place you never been to before.

You may know the destination; you may know why you want to go there; you may even have a travel plan done, but you do not necessarily know or recognise the streets, roads or bridges that you need to pass until you start your journey, check the map or GPS, and actually see them.

DE may have a general idea already done back then and the details (streets, roads, or bridges) may change but the general idea (destination) may still remain.

Spoiler

Just like perhaps J.K Rowling didn't know how many books her stories will go or that she would introduce Horcruxes, but Voldemort and how he is related to Harry Porter (with the latter as his weakness or being a part of him) wouldn't likely have changed drastically over the years/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are my ideas on what the Umbra frames could be. Might be totally wrong, might be missing the mark, but it's half the fun in brainstorming, right?

(If I got something wrong from known & established lore, corrections are welcome, of course ^^')

1) A second iteration of the Orokin's Warframe program

1.1) They could be the perfected version of what we witness in the Rhino Prime codex entry--- completely autonomous, technocyte-engineered beings with absolute loyalty to their masters, with no "void-touched demons" (aka "kiddos" aka "Tenno") controlling them. The Orokin didn't fear the warframes, they feared the Tenno, so creating autonomous and controllable warframes would make sense (to me, at least).

1.2) Alternatively, the Orokin could have taken their studies and experimentation with void exposure a step further, and the Umbra frames could be commanded by other void-exposed (and also properly, thoroughly brainwashed / programmed) individuals. Soldiers? Convicted criminals? Prisoners? Maybe they were not even given the "luxury" of connecting to the frames via somatics, and were forced to directly transference into them as a form of punishment --- this would also kinda / sorta explain what the Stalker is(?)

!! Apostasy Prologue Spoilers Below !!

Spoiler

2) Ballas' personal project

2.1) I think it's possible that the Umbra frames were created by Ballas during his time in seclusion, taking away lessons from the original Warframe program back in the Orokin days, and improving upon them, using either solutions 1.1) or 1.2). What if they act as his personal guard, and they will be introduced also as an enemy type, not just as playable frames? They could also act as a "plot Macguffin" and salvage Ballas' soul, if we end up killing him in an upcoming quest :D In order to keep him in the story, regardless of player choice (remember what happened with Ordan, the Orokin don't seem to care much about death)

That is, assuming the guy we saw was indeed Ballas, and not some Hunhow trickery to separate Margulis / Natah in order to get his daughter back ^^

 

Edited by Aldrr
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Aldrr said:

The Orokin didn't fear the warframes, they feared the Tenno, so creating autonomous and controllable warframes would make sense (to me, at least).

Ballas - "Why do these Warframes stir us so? They burn with our lost desires, lost instincts. Tenno tamed, but only just. Cast and hunted as game. Trapped and tortured, yet they remain... animals. Less than their human seed, gnawing their limbs from the snare, devouring a banquet of suffering, obese with heat and acid... and rage.That is why they will destroy us."

It seems like the Orokin did fear the frames, or at the very least were wary of them.

15 minutes ago, Aldrr said:

Umbra frames could be commanded by other void-exposed

Interesting theory, but as far as we know, all adults who are exposed to the Void go completely insane, whereas children gain abilities instead. They are the only ones who can directly control a warframe. You might be on the right path though. Instead of commanding the warframes, these brainwashed individuals might have become the warframes themselves. 

We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the Sacrifice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LuciferIsDeath said:

True, but the name of the quest is 'The Sacrifice." This could mean that the Operator has to be 'sacrificed' in some way in order to give the Umbra frame their sentient state.

Another idea could be that Ballas is talking to Lotus/Natah/Margulis, and that the plot this monologue hints at has no actual gameplay impact. Maybe it's really just story. As we've seen with previous teasers for cinematic quests, DE generally doesn't hint at the "meat" of the story, but rather throws us little bones that are connected to it.

I don't want to weaken your theory or anything, I'm just throwing another interpretation out there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 16 heures, Rawbeard a dit :

Same thing, since it's still China only and is "coming to global" for a couple years now, which, let's be honest, will not happen 2018 either.

it's not the same things .... a prime variant and a umbra variant is not same .... normally the umbra version is goind to be very different compared to the prime version so umbra prime and umbra will not be the same

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rauxa9 said:

I saw a theory a while back that said umbras are sentient (as in having self control and not the Sentient race)

The word you are looking for is "Sapient": Being able to make decisions

"Sentient" means "Being able to feel emotions".

Cats, dogs, horses... those animals are sentient because they feel, humans are sapient because they can rationalize things and make decisions.

Why are the Sentients called such, you ask? Well... it SOUNDS better than "The Sapients".

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wind_Blade said:

it's not the same things .... a prime variant and a umbra variant is not same .... normally the umbra version is goind to be very different compared to the prime version so umbra prime and umbra will not be the same

that is pure speculation not supported by anything that exists in reality. Umbra is Excal Prime for China. that's it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plot twist, Umbras are controlled by Cephalon Simaris, he want to scan everything so bad that he ended up scanning frames without we knowing it while talking to him or using his simulator room.

Plot twist 2, Ballas is Simaris, he was there all along.

Sorry I was bored.

 

Edited by -Ringed-Umbra-
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rauxa9 said:

I saw a theory a while back that said umbras are sentient (as in having self control and not the Sentient race) warframes requiring no operators and he referenced the Rhino Prime codex entry, also stating a possibility of making our current frames that way too.

 

this is one of things on the discord weve been talking on is the possibility of the rhino prime lores creatures condition

that its possible for any and all frames to become like that , if say we remove the limiters on their bodies/consciousness we could infact let the body run rampant like a berzerker while we the tenno did something and then the beast state frame would act as a guard unit while we are in warrior mode 

it wouldnt be as controlled and possibly more primal in its combat style so unable to use guns and maybe only melee or its powers 

the other concept is maybe unlike previose creature it acts more with intelegance 

if i my theory on warframe construction is at least half right then the flesh components are derived of human tissue infected with the virus that was alter cultured and re-engineered to be simple flesh golems independent of the hive mind , from what we have lore wise we know we take a blueprint helm chass systems 

BP is probably the base construction and culture derivation for the flesh components and organs

helm/neuroptics is probably a mechanism created to be implanted into the brain unit [each frame is different for how these are created and installed] this unit allows transference to be possible with the link system , it probably also helps us the operator use them for longer location as we can hook into them without the system and allows for stronger control and grant our own powers through the frame [focus buffs]

the chassis is probably the armoring, plating , metal skeletal structure used in the frames construction that the flesh is fused/grown/attached to in various ways to make a functional golem body per the specific unit 

systems is probably the nerves and or maybe the void pathways within the body that help a user manipulate void energy in the body 

weve seen cases of infested controlled units with mesa and chroma -reviewing codex says infested- 

so its quite possibly they would act behave like a standard unit and not "primal" or raw in their behavior and be more tactical and or logical 

perhaps even able to talk or mind speak with us and we could act in a symbiotic way as we know with tsd our frame acted ogf its own accord to snap war

in that action the frame was jerky twitchy as if it was fighting some built in restrictions or limits 

-just my thoughts- 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 5 heures, Rawbeard a dit :

that is pure speculation not supported by anything that exists in reality. Umbra is Excal Prime for China. that's it.

it's not speculation DE has said in a devstream the mechanical will be different. It's not certain the ability but it will be different

Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been suggested before, and as I recall, the reception was quite negative.

Just so you know.

1 minute ago, CaptainZgred said:

I'd rather see them as actual suits for the Operator than avatar-like machines.

Not gonna happen. It wouldn't make sense from a lore standpoint, and unless the gameplay changed rather drastically it would be rather pointless.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

this is one of things on the discord weve been talking on is the possibility of the rhino prime lores creatures condition

that its possible for any and all frames to become like that , if say we remove the limiters on their bodies/consciousness we could infact let the body run rampant like a berzerker while we the tenno did something and then the beast state frame would act as a guard unit while we are in warrior mode 

it wouldnt be as controlled and possibly more primal in its combat style so unable to use guns and maybe only melee or its powers 

[snipped]


Just a crazy thought that crossed my mind because of this (quote): if Umbra variants were able to retain a fraction of their sentience, even while under the control of the Operator, then they would be a unique asset as a quickly deployed berserk companion while the Operator goes to battle himself. Random though, that is it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Not gonna happen. It wouldn't make sense from a lore standpoint, and unless the gameplay changed rather drastically it would be rather pointless.

In my opinion everything makes sense from a lore standpoint when it comes to Warframe as long as you expand it and not draw from existing information. 

Edited by CaptainZgred
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Rauxa9 said:

I saw a theory a while back that said umbras are sentient (as in having self control and not the Sentient race) warframes requiring no operators and he referenced the Rhino Prime codex entry, also stating a possibility of making our current frames that way too. It would be neat to have that mechanic at least: operators and warframes side by side instead of tag teaming (although its more fun to play as frames). That and having multiple frames you own walk around the orbiter with NPC ai would be hella awesome, or just in static places acting out their idles.

I think that person is me! 

Spoiler

I really don't know. I based my hopes off of alot of other people's mentions and theories, but I still made that theory. But like many things I have thought of, I am probably not the only one that thought of that. 

AA0629BFFE6FDC0DA67DF228EAC473C87E605F0A

Here's an example of my Warframe already assuming its idle animation. Teaser? I hope so!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wind_Blade said:

it's not speculation DE has said in a devstream the mechanical will be different. It's not certain the ability but it will be different

I'll believe it when I see it, it has literally been years after it was supposed to be months.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...