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(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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Just now, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Agree, however we don't know how long until then since this was just a teaser. May be almost a year until the quest like with the sacrifice. Especially with Fortuna and Railjack updates which seem rather big.

Well, Fortuna-tly, I think they and PoE were what were really holding Sacrifice back. I mean, Fortuna at least seems pretty far along. Though I imagine they'll be the bulk of the rest of this year, down to late Autumn, early winter holiday season. SInce most of the framework is made from PoE it should be less buggy on launch.

Then, following the Holidays they'll get to work on New War Properly. Sacrifice was relatively small for a cinematic, so I'm guessing they'll add an extra month on the three-month dev cycle Sacrifice got. So, I'd say early/mid spring is possible. Then again, this is DE we're talking about, it's anyone's game.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Well, Fortuna-tly, I think they and PoE were what were really holding Sacrifice back. I mean, Fortuna at least seems pretty far along. Though I imagine they'll be the bulk of the rest of this year, down to late Autumn, early winter holiday season. SInce most of the framework is made from PoE it should be less buggy on launch.

Then, following the Holidays they'll get to work on New War Properly. Sacrifice was relatively small for a cinematic, so I'm guessing they'll add an extra month on the three-month dev cycle Sacrifice got. So, I'd say early/mid spring is possible. Then again, this is DE we're talking about, it's anyone's game.

You are forgetting Railjack, unlike Fortuna this update will surely need a lot more work on it, even Steve himself said it that they were considering of cutting the presentation off since it was in awful state but the team managed to get it done. Clearly this update itself will have an big role in getting towards The New War.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

You are forgetting Railjack, unlike Fortuna this update will surely need a lot more work on it, even Steve himself said it that they were considering of cutting the presentation off since it was in awful state but the team managed to get it done. Clearly this update itself will have an big role in getting towards The New War.

True. But if nothing else, at least Fortuna won't be as much of a problem. Spring is my 'optimistic' estimate.

And summer is my more conservative estimate...

Huh. I suddenly understand why Sacrifice took so long.

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My main concern is this: with how much work Venus and Railjack updates are I worry how DE are going to find time to give us more Umbra frames until the next quest comes. And that's if we forget about adding regular frames (which need a quest or some kind of backstory nowadays), primes, new weapons and whatever other things that DE are working on, like possibly Melee 3.0 or Kingpin system.

With how Excal Umbra was introduced it means that other Umbras will probably need some kind of backstory, and considering that even recording voicelines can be difficult to arrange sometimes... I don't know. It's possible they'll just drop Umbra frames on us like they do with primes, but then the whole thing will be way less meaningful after all this talk of "relieving warframe's traumatic memories and taking away its pain" in the Sacrifice.

What do you think?

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3 hours ago, Edelsid said:

about adding regular frames (which need a quest or some kind of backstory nowadays)

 

They've already said a quest for the Revenant is "unlikely" on Twitter, and expressed no fondness at the idea when they revealed him too. So he's shipping when finished, Geruda's deal is currently unknown.

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3 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

They've already said a quest for the Revenant is "unlikely" on Twitter, and expressed no fondness at the idea when they revealed him too. So he's shipping when finished, Geruda's deal is currently unknown.

I didn't know that, thanks. Still, I feel that it's not going to ease DE's task by much.

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14 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

 

They've already said a quest for the Revenant is "unlikely" on Twitter, and expressed no fondness at the idea when they revealed him too. So he's shipping when finished, Geruda's deal is currently unknown.

news to me on that one 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

news to me on that one 

They mentioned it during his first appearance on devstream, Twitter, I don't know about that.

Given her Corpus murdering though, Garuda will likely come with a Fortuna-related update (not Fortuna itself though, probably), maybe Railjack as that seems to continue with the Corpus as the villains. At least from what little we've seen.

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1 minute ago, LazerSkink said:

 

 

Thanks LazerSkink!

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17 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

 

They've already said a quest for the Revenant is "unlikely" on Twitter, and expressed no fondness at the idea when they revealed him too. So he's shipping when finished, Geruda's deal is currently unknown.

Garuda being a female warframe is sorta weird to me, considering Garuda is a male character in mythology, a man/bird hybrid that acts as Vishnu's mount on occasion. Guess it just is to continue with birds being female. Eidolon Warframe though, I don't understand how it could exist in the game's setting so far.

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Steve is mostly likely in the phase where you know you haven't done something in a while then when you are working on that thing, you just want to keep working on it.

I think hopefully they have learn their lesson in not finishing the script for a quest after months the teaser was released...

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4 hours ago, Urlan said:

Garuda being a female warframe is sorta weird to me, considering Garuda is a male character in mythology, a man/bird hybrid that acts as Vishnu's mount on occasion. Guess it just is to continue with birds being female. Eidolon Warframe though, I don't understand how it could exist in the game's setting so far.

That reminds me of something...

Spoiler

liger-inuzuka-forums-upload-divide-1.jpg

I do wonder what's up with that?

22 hours ago, Edelsid said:

My main concern is this: with how much work Venus and Railjack updates are I worry how DE are going to find time to give us more Umbra frames until the next quest comes. And that's if we forget about adding regular frames (which need a quest or some kind of backstory nowadays), primes, new weapons and whatever other things that DE are working on, like possibly Melee 3.0 or Kingpin system.

With how Excal Umbra was introduced it means that other Umbras will probably need some kind of backstory, and considering that even recording voicelines can be difficult to arrange sometimes... I don't know. It's possible they'll just drop Umbra frames on us like they do with primes, but then the whole thing will be way less meaningful after all this talk of "relieving warframe's traumatic memories and taking away its pain" in the Sacrifice.

What do you think?

Yeah was thinking about it aswell, if anything we should try to discuss about this a bit more. I think we should talk about Frame releases in general rather than a specific line. We know that DE releases Primes every 3 months, not sure on regular frames and now there's Umbra line in play now. If anything I think this DE should maybe take time to review things around this.

Maybe they could slow down on the release of regular frames for now which could give them more time to work out on a theme of the frame and how to make it work, as we saw with "Vlad" recently, while they have a theme they still haven't figured out on what his abilities should be like as we saw that some of the devs weren't satisfied with it. And now they have a new frame around the corner to work on aswell.

The slow down could be a good way to catch up for Primes a bit and also to add Umbra releases aswell. Since those are just different versions of existing frames it is an easier process to get them made in the first place( with exception of Umbra line which if we are going off Excal Umbra they probably will have atleast one altered ability, but still not as big of a deal as it would be with a new frame)

 

As for how we will obtain the new Umbra is a different question. While I'm not sure that they'll go full cinematic as with Sacrifice I do expect that each Umbra will have a story of their own to present.More than likely we'll dive into their minds again which may have a cutscene in similar fashion to how we had with the Sacrifice. Maybe even gain new access codes for the Vitruvian to get more lore related info. But question is if it would be doable for DE to do this without investing too much resources into it.

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

That reminds me of something...

  Reveal hidden contents

liger-inuzuka-forums-upload-divide-1.jpg

I do wonder what's up with that?

Yeah was thinking about it aswell, if anything we should try to discuss about this a bit more. I think we should talk about Frame releases in general rather than a specific line. We know that DE releases Primes every 3 months, not sure on regular frames and now there's Umbra line in play now. If anything I think this DE should maybe take time to review things around this.

Maybe they could slow down on the release of regular frames for now which could give them more time to work out on a theme of the frame and how to make it work, as we saw with "Vlad" recently, while they have a theme they still haven't figured out on what his abilities should be like as we saw that some of the devs weren't satisfied with it. And now they have a new frame around the corner to work on aswell.

The slow down could be a good way to catch up for Primes a bit and also to add Umbra releases aswell. Since those are just different versions of existing frames it is an easier process to get them made in the first place( with exception of Umbra line which if we are going off Excal Umbra they probably will have atleast one altered ability, but still not as big of a deal as it would be with a new frame)

 

As for how we will obtain the new Umbra is a different question. While I'm not sure that they'll go full cinematic as with Sacrifice I do expect that each Umbra will have a story of their own to present.More than likely we'll dive into their minds again which may have a cutscene in similar fashion to how we had with the Sacrifice. Maybe even gain new access codes for the Vitruvian to get more lore related info. But question is if it would be doable for DE to do this without investing too much resources into it.

Very tongue in cheek, but yes, Zephyr was designed originally as a male Tengu warframe. Course, nothing says a Tengu bird demon can't be a male or female. This isn't really the same topic as Garuda is a particular Deity. It would be like making a female Zeus, Nezha, or Thor (cough cough Marvel comics). Nothing wrong with having more female bird warframes but I don't see the point in using a singular male deity as a female warframe.

As for Eidolon Warframe (Vlad or Revenant) its 'theme' of integrating Eidolon energies and elements into them doesn't make sense in setting as Eidolons are after the Old War - when Warframes were made - and instead happened due to a Gara warframe and the Unum after Lotus betrayed Hunhow by letting us live. So either, the warframe originally had nothing to do with Eidolons and was modified afterward, meaning it would be the first warframe to not have a prime with the same moves - or time travel - even then, Sentient are immune to infested material (technocyte) and warframes are fueled by Void energy when we transference into them. Technocyte is also able to be poisoned by Sentient energy exposed materials which makes the pairing of tech even more of a stretch.

We have seen more slow-down in warframe releases though, that is true. So far we have only had Khora this year and she was originally intended last year so its certainly understandable that some warframe releases could be inserted into those holes or its part of a bigger move at the planning stage. As far Umbra, I figure they will be connected to further story development as we go forward.

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ivara is derived from ivar , not like we havent had gender changes prior with ember/ash also 

the garduda name is just the code name for now as revenant is also vlad is the ingame place holder for him a real name has yet to be revealed 

the thing with vlad[ph] i find interesting is if he is a sentient based frame , then is he part infested still or is he more of a sentient tamed by tenno ?

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

ivara is derived from ivar , not like we havent had gender changes prior with ember/ash also 

the garduda name is just the code name for now as revenant is also vlad is the ingame place holder for him a real name has yet to be revealed 

the thing with vlad[ph] i find interesting is if he is a sentient based frame , then is he part infested still or is he more of a sentient tamed by tenno ?

The feminine use 'Ivara', is from German basically meaning warrior of yew or a bow warrior. Thus the name used for Ivara the warframe. Ivar is masculine Ivara is not. Garuda is a masculine deity, it wouldn't make much sense being applied to a female warframe in any manner. Ember and Ash had different names during their gender swapped forms. Blaze and Smoke but its correct that their current names are gender neutral - unlike Garuda. Vlad, Revenant, or as the pictures and discussion in the Devstream mentioned, Eidolon Warframe is physically themed after Eidolons which can't work as I explainjed. Sentient stuff can't mix at all with Technocyte as Quill Onkko told his friend Konzu to pass along to us during Plague Star. As I mentioned in the previous post.

Even if an Eidolon was used to make or inspire (the warframe is leaking Eidolon energies so it would have to part of the warframe), the timeline makes that impossible as the Eidolons were made after the Old War and the Orokin Elite were executed by us for the most part. That could still leave some Orokin Elite like Ballas being able to figure some method for the construction defying what has been established in setting perhaps but then it would be impossible for there to be a prime in the traditional sense, either the prime would be of a different warframe that was twisted into the look of an undead Sentient; or there wouldn't be a prime at all since the warframe was made after the Fall itself to use Eidolons as an inspiration.

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^ Yeah curious about how that will be explained.

However I do have another theory about the Eidolon inspiration. What if these Eidolons aren't he first ones? This story specificly talks about how Eidolons came to be on Earth after the fall of the Orokin. This doesn't exclude the possibility of Eidolons appearing during the war on any other planets where they could have been exterminated or even still be present. Doesn't seem that impossible when you think about it that during the war sentients were blown up resulting in the appearance of eidolons, it is a very likely scenario.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

^ Yeah curious about how that will be explained.

However I do have another theory about the Eidolon inspiration. What if these Eidolons aren't he first ones? This story specificly talks about how Eidolons came to be on Earth after the fall of the Orokin. This doesn't exclude the possibility of Eidolons appearing during the war on any other planets where they could have been exterminated or even still be present. Doesn't seem that impossible when you think about it that during the war sentients were blown up resulting in the appearance of eidolons, it is a very likely scenario.

Its implied that this isn't the case, that the Eidolon - remnants of a gigantic Sentient held back until the Elite were killed to devestate Towers on ancient Earth - was unique but its at least a possibility, though not one Quill Onkko could have missed in telling us the Story of the Eidolons considering he has quantum awareness. The appearnace of the Eidolons like the Teralyst and co, even the Vormalysts are things that the original sentient didn't resemble. Its the 'undead' form of a Sentient, unlike Hunhow; the mind and soul of the gigantic Sentient was annihilated by Gara and Unum with what seemed like a Void bomb taken into the creature's core. Hunhow's main form is crippled in the seas of Uranus but its awareness is just as capable as ever to give a proper comparison.

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3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Its implied that this isn't the case, that the Eidolon - remnants of a gigantic Sentient held back until the Elite were killed to devestate Towers on ancient Earth - was unique but its at least a possibility, though not one Quill Onkko could have missed in telling us the Story of the Eidolons considering he has quantum awareness. The appearnace of the Eidolons like the Teralyst and co, even the Vormalysts are things that the original sentient didn't resemble. Its the 'undead' form of a Sentient, unlike Hunhow; the mind and soul of the gigantic Sentient was annihilated by Gara and Unum with what seemed like a Void bomb taken into the creature's core. Hunhow's main form is crippled in the seas of Uranus but its awareness is just as capable as ever to give a proper comparison.

The weapon used by Gara to destroy the sentient was a Cascade Bomb.  

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That also brings us to how much do we know about the Unum and Quills. Are they on Earth only, can the Unum precive visions/realities outside of Earth. So much that we don't know yet. Would be nice if we get the chance to enter the tower in the future and finally see the Unum(if it's possible that is)

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40 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

That also brings us to how much do we know about the Unum and Quills. Are they on Earth only, can the Unum precive visions/realities outside of Earth. So much that we don't know yet. Would be nice if we get the chance to enter the tower in the future and finally see the Unum(if it's possible that is)

Quill has lines acknowledging and communicating to other Quill members and mentions other Towers continuously in contact with Unum and himself. You can hear them by sitting around in his room without chatting with him. The Wiki though has at least some recorded down for reading which are very interesting, basically hints of plot to be, happening perhaps, and already come to pass. So far as Quill has told us, the Unum is aware of potentiality and his growing ability to do so drove him to choose the path he did and become a Quill, while pushing his wife Saya into his best friend, Konzu's arms. Of the myriad potentials possible, it was the only choice he could tolerate. Quill, as far as we know from what he has said, will say, and says, has Quantum awareness, if this is his innate ability among the Quills, or something Unum conveys to her adherents, is something we don't yet know.

I think being able to enter the Unum and have adventures would be awesome though dangerous in some respects, seems the Ostron tradition of making masks is to prevent Gilded Lung and other strange problems gained from entering areas of the Unum that have been harvested or damaged and are still self repairing.

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^The Gilded Lung part is actually about lung illness that miners expirienced when mining due the dust particle getting into their lungs(from what I'm aware). The same thing could be happening here since they use explosives to remove parts that are ready for harvest which leaves clouds of dust.

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21 hours ago, Urlan said:

The feminine use 'Ivara', is from German basically meaning warrior of yew or a bow warrior. Thus the name used for Ivara the warframe. Ivar is masculine Ivara is not. Garuda is a masculine deity, it wouldn't make much sense being applied to a female warframe in any manner. Ember and Ash had different names during their gender swapped forms. Blaze and Smoke but its correct that their current names are gender neutral - unlike Garuda. Vlad, Revenant, or as the pictures and discussion in the Devstream mentioned, Eidolon Warframe is physically themed after Eidolons which can't work as I explainjed. Sentient stuff can't mix at all with Technocyte as Quill Onkko told his friend Konzu to pass along to us during Plague Star. As I mentioned in the previous post.

Even if an Eidolon was used to make or inspire (the warframe is leaking Eidolon energies so it would have to part of the warframe), the timeline makes that impossible as the Eidolons were made after the Old War and the Orokin Elite were executed by us for the most part. That could still leave some Orokin Elite like Ballas being able to figure some method for the construction defying what has been established in setting perhaps but then it would be impossible for there to be a prime in the traditional sense, either the prime would be of a different warframe that was twisted into the look of an undead Sentient; or there wouldn't be a prime at all since the warframe was made after the Fall itself to use Eidolons as an inspiration.

 

i think your forgetting about the sentinel fragment which states they are derived from sentients which also are orokin tech , meaning if sentinels can be prime so can sentients 

also edilonds are strange entities in their own right as they are in many ways mindless non sentient species of the "sentient" type more like a sub derived type, could help explain how its coupled with the infested at stages as weve made weapons and armor using sentient cores and nano spore , a more developed method could be a sentient frame 

 

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28 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

i think your forgetting about the sentinel fragment which states they are derived from sentients which also are orokin tech , meaning if sentinels can be prime so can sentients 

also edilonds are strange entities in their own right as they are in many ways mindless non sentient species of the "sentient" type more like a sub derived type, could help explain how its coupled with the infested at stages as weve made weapons and armor using sentient cores and nano spore , a more developed method could be a sentient frame 

 

No, I am not forgetting the Cephalon Fragment about Sentinels. If you notice, the Sentinel information is from an in-universe source that says that some researchers 'believe' that Sentinels may be distantly related to the original state of of the Sentient. This is an in-universe theory - not fact - and as said, the Eidolons themselves are from one particular Sentient who only became the Eidolon creatures after the Old War. It couldn't be primed since it was after the people (besides Ballas and the Executor Avantus perhaps) were dead due to the Massacre. Avantus was killed soon after by Grineer but that is besides the point, even if Sentinels were related to Sentient, they are related to the original creatures before they got totally outside the Sol System boundaries. and Sentinels are able to be affected by Technocyte - Sentient are completely immune as stated in Plague Star -and if nothing else, it shows that they are not really a comparison.

On the other point of using Sentient cores to make weapons; we have not made a weapon using Sentient cores. Nanospores of course being the base stage form of Technocyte and very common in our construction of stuff. We trade Sentient cores to Quill for rep, and we destroy Brilliant and Radiant Shards for focus (somehow) but we haven't used Sentient parts for gear yet. Instead we use materials that have been affected by Sentient energy over long periods of time. Sentirum being thought to be fossilized Eidolon blood while Nyth is Breath of Eidolon that has become trapped in molten Iradite. We use those in some gear, mostly Magus and Virtuos in additon to Exodia of course only in their polished and cut, processed state.

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1 hour ago, Urlan said:

No, I am not forgetting the Cephalon Fragment about Sentinels. If you notice, the Sentinel information is from an in-universe source that says that some researchers 'believe' that Sentinels may be distantly related to the original state of of the Sentient. This is an in-universe theory - not fact - and as said, the Eidolons themselves are from one particular Sentient who only became the Eidolon creatures after the Old War. It couldn't be primed since it was after the people (besides Ballas and the Executor Avantus perhaps) were dead due to the Massacre. Avantus was killed soon after by Grineer but that is besides the point, even if Sentinels were related to Sentient, they are related to the original creatures before they got totally outside the Sol System boundaries. and Sentinels are able to be affected by Technocyte - Sentient are completely immune as stated in Plague Star -and if nothing else, it shows that they are not really a comparison.

On the other point of using Sentient cores to make weapons; we have not made a weapon using Sentient cores. Nanospores of course being the base stage form of Technocyte and very common in our construction of stuff. We trade Sentient cores to Quill for rep, and we destroy Brilliant and Radiant Shards for focus (somehow) but we haven't used Sentient parts for gear yet. Instead we use materials that have been affected by Sentient energy over long periods of time. Sentirum being thought to be fossilized Eidolon blood while Nyth is Breath of Eidolon that has become trapped in molten Iradite. We use those in some gear, mostly Magus and Virtuos in additon to Exodia of course only in their polished and cut, processed state.

350?cb=20171015035902Image result for sentient warframeRelated imageRelated image

what about wisps ^, they seem like mini sentients  and are "only" in plains so far. also the spawn rate is known to be higher at night with fellow vomvalysts /edilon

we consume these to create armors/arcanes/weapons , all we know is they are strange rock like creatures that spawn and are very small , similarly the edilon is created from local matter and accumulated sentient parts /cells recombining 

 

in regards to edilon, they could have salvaged pieces from one after an initial formation and used it with orokin tech to make vlad prime ?

dunno , it will be curious to see how it fits lore wise , as it wont have a quest , presumably parts drop for edilons then ?

 

Edited by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

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