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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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5 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I haven't been able to login and see if the quest is replayable but isn't the number of stones taken variable?  

It's a bit of a stretch, honestly. And while you are right that Ballas isn't the only one who had a hand in creating the Warframes, he is the one who had the largest part and if anyone else tweaked the process, the resulting Warframe wouldn't be within the same vein as an Umbra.  

I forget offhand, though I think it forces you to lose a number of pieces. 

And its really not a much of a stretch, either.  They were vague as to what makes or causes Umbra/an Umbra to be functionally distinct from an ordinary warframe.  One concrete element is the transference bolt, but even the basic version is handwaved at this point.  Which leads to a basic knowledge problem as follows:

Is the altered bolt necessary for an Umbra to be created?

  • If no then:
    • The Umbra effect may be from an intense experience during their transformation.  In which case they may have been made unintentionally there could be any number of variants waiting to be discovered. 
      • If the altered bolt is required to tame one, the acquisition loop may involve gouging in the altered bolt to the untamed Umbra then entering their memories. 
    • The Umbra effect may be the natural state for a warframe. 
      • Standard model bolts may be tuned to the nearest Tenno in an agressive way, immediately subduing their rage as they come on-line, and/or have the ability to disable the unit when no Tenno is connected. 
        • If so swapping the bolt may have an Umbra-like effect on other frames, though their memories may be less intense from already being linked to a Tenno and may have no interest in doing anything. 
      • A damaged or removed bolt might cause an Umbra effect. 
  • If yes then:
    • Is the alteration something that could happen by accident?  As in, something someone might do and later realize they had done something wrong and shelve the defective unit. 
    • Is the alteration actually difficult to create?  As in, could it be created only by Ballas or someone of equal or greater skill? 
      • Is Ballas actually exceptionally good at anything, or was it merely him signing off on and directing the work of others? 
    • Is the alteration only undesirable for the specific role that normal frames were built to fill? 
      • Would an Umbra be a reasonable solution for certain problems?  Like keeping all but a select few people out of a location indefinitely with little to no support?
      • Would someone willingly do this to themselves to fulfill a task they had no hope of accomplishing otherwise? 

In short:  The vagueness of what little we do know makes it extremely easy to be proven wrong on blanket yes or no statements about many things, future Umbras included. 

Out-of-universe information is what I would base speculations of future Umbras on.  As in, is there grofit in it?  Are people enthusiastic to play more because of more Umbras and/or do Umbras encourage people to spend money?  Or is adding in more Umbra variants, at least for certain frames, even a good idea?  If they follow Excal's format, they'll be purpose built anti-Sentient units, which are being built towards by DE.  Would adding in more Umbras effectively force high level versus Sentient play to those frames? 

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10 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Umbras are lore-heavy. If we look at Excal Umbra and the way he was made, we see that not every Fram can get an Umbra...

Considering the circumstances.. the less the better.

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More frames... dunno. But more weapons? Yeah. I want a paracesis/skiajati type weapon for primaries and secondaries.

a rifle and a pistol that destroys sentients. Or maybe a bow and some throwing knives, who knows.

while you’re at it, throw in an umbra liset skin to have everything in a set, and ill be glad af.

Edited by Rayden_Tenno
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11 hours ago, NovusNova said:

Umbra is limited series, Excal might be the only one, we don't know.

As long as they release more "normal" warframes, there will always be more Prime Warframes to release.

Honestly they are pretty much better leaving Excal Umbra the only one unless they want to deal with disappointing everyone who's favorite frame doesn't make the cut. I mean Excal kinda does that now but is also sorta covered by the fact that he is serving as a tub of I can't believe it's not Butter Prime. So he kinda gets a free pass but if they keep going, I don't see it turning out all that well. 

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12 hours ago, CriticalFumble said:

I forget offhand, though I think it forces you to lose a number of pieces. 

And its really not a much of a stretch, either.  They were vague as to what makes or causes Umbra/an Umbra to be functionally distinct from an ordinary warframe.  One concrete element is the transference bolt, but even the basic version is handwaved at this point.  Which leads to a basic knowledge problem as follows:

Is the altered bolt necessary for an Umbra to be created?

  • If no then:
    • The Umbra effect may be from an intense experience during their transformation.  In which case they may have been made unintentionally there could be any number of variants waiting to be discovered. 
      • If the altered bolt is required to tame one, the acquisition loop may involve gouging in the altered bolt to the untamed Umbra then entering their memories. 
    • The Umbra effect may be the natural state for a warframe. 
      • Standard model bolts may be tuned to the nearest Tenno in an agressive way, immediately subduing their rage as they come on-line, and/or have the ability to disable the unit when no Tenno is connected. 
        • If so swapping the bolt may have an Umbra-like effect on other frames, though their memories may be less intense from already being linked to a Tenno and may have no interest in doing anything. 
      • A damaged or removed bolt might cause an Umbra effect. 
  • If yes then:
    • Is the alteration something that could happen by accident?  As in, something someone might do and later realize they had done something wrong and shelve the defective unit. 
    • Is the alteration actually difficult to create?  As in, could it be created only by Ballas or someone of equal or greater skill? 
      • Is Ballas actually exceptionally good at anything, or was it merely him signing off on and directing the work of others? 
    • Is the alteration only undesirable for the specific role that normal frames were built to fill? 
      • Would an Umbra be a reasonable solution for certain problems?  Like keeping all but a select few people out of a location indefinitely with little to no support?
      • Would someone willingly do this to themselves to fulfill a task they had no hope of accomplishing otherwise? 

In short:  The vagueness of what little we do know makes it extremely easy to be proven wrong on blanket yes or no statements about many things, future Umbras included. 

Out-of-universe information is what I would base speculations of future Umbras on.  As in, is there grofit in it?  Are people enthusiastic to play more because of more Umbras and/or do Umbras encourage people to spend money?  Or is adding in more Umbra variants, at least for certain frames, even a good idea?  If they follow Excal's format, they'll be purpose built anti-Sentient units, which are being built towards by DE.  Would adding in more Umbras effectively force high level versus Sentient play to those frames? 

The reason I feel it's a stretch is due to the ever growing number of Warframes and, as I recall, the variable number of stones lost.  This particular theory only supports to the creation of a few more Umbras and not one for every Warframe like the OP is asking. (Mag Umbra or riot)

A couple of my alts are approaching this quest, I'll have to replay it before commenting further, mainly because a couple of the points I want to make relating to lore, I'm not sure are accurate lol

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they should not make more umbras, instead they should allow us to give any warframe some sort of upgrade so they can have the same traits as excalibur umbra

making more umbras would fall in the category of powercreep since they would have unique polarities (the umbra polarity and that points out to be an end game mechanic in the future), and the built in specter mode, rendering primes to lose any value other than cosmetic

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34 minutes ago, Toppien said:

they should not make more umbras, instead they should allow us to give any warframe some sort of upgrade so they can have the same traits as excalibur umbra

making more umbras would fall in the category of powercreep since they would have unique polarities (the umbra polarity and that points out to be an end game mechanic in the future), and the built in specter mode, rendering primes to lose any value other than cosmetic

That's subjective though. 

Primes would still have their associated affinity, stat boosts and Void interaction, not to mention lore.  They really only lose "value" when the player is min/maxing or focused on Sentient farming. 

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hace 21 minutos, MagPrime dijo:

That's subjective though. 

Primes would still have their associated affinity, stat boosts and Void interaction, not to mention lore.  They really only lose "value" when the player is min/maxing or focused on Sentient farming. 

im thinking it considering theres going to be a new upade that its going to add alot of sentients (the new war) and more umbras would make them the meta for that endgame content

as you say for one type of enemy, sure, but consider this from the perspective of someone who has invested a lot of resources and time improving a prime/normal frame for the purposes of end game, then a new brand of warframes come that are meta for that end game content making all my effort worth nothing? its the same problem as the meta with eidolon hunting, you must have very especific frames/weapons with especific rivens or you dont get to kill anything, and thats exactly what is going to happen when killing sentients in the new updates, no variety, a good endgame should let you use anything, if you invested enough on it, thus why i would preffer if any frame could get the umbra traits, then i wouldnt mind if they make more umbras

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4 minutes ago, Toppien said:

im thinking it considering theres going to be a new upade that its going to add alot of sentients (the new war) and more umbras would make them the meta for that endgame content

as you say for one type of enemy, sure, but consider this from the perspective of someone who has invested a lot of resources and time improving a prime/normal frame for the purposes of end game, then a new brand of warframes come that are meta for that end game content making all my effort worth nothing? its the same problem as the meta with eidolon hunting, you must have very especific frames/weapons with especific rivens or you dont get to kill anything, and thats exactly what is going to happen when killing sentients in the new updates, no variety, a good endgame should let you use anything, if you invested enough on it, thus why i would preffer if any frame could get the umbra traits, then i wouldnt mind if they make more umbras

Yeah...no...

I'm the person who took Mag onto Grineer tilesets when she was still geard towards Corpus annihilation and out performed meta players, I'm also the person who does the same on Infested tilesets.  When Sentients came out, I had no issues taking them down either. 

The meta isn't the only way to excel in higher content, it's just the easiest. 

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hace 1 minuto, MagPrime dijo:

Yeah...no...

I'm the person who took Mag onto Grineer tilesets when she was still geard towards Corpus annihilation and out performed meta players, I'm also the person who does the same on Infested tilesets.  When Sentients came out, I had no issues taking them down either. 

The meta isn't the only way to excel in higher content, it's just the easiest. 

i want to see you killing all  3 eidolons with only mag, and a primary that is not a sniper rifle, or without rivens, yeah, you cant, you will be lucky if you can even down one limb from the first one

and dont bs me, normal tilesets dont count as end game content unless its late game arbitrations, or very late game endless missions

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28 minutes ago, Toppien said:

i want to see you killing all  3 eidolons with only mag, and a primary that is not a sniper rifle, or without rivens, yeah, you cant, you will be lucky if you can even down one limb from the first one

and dont bs me, normal tilesets dont count as end game content unless its late game arbitrations, or very late game endless missions

Not gonna bother because I never made the claim I could do that, and that's not easy for a lot of meta players that I know. 

Overreaction much? 

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3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Not gonna bother because I never made the claim I could do that, and that's not easy for a lot of meta players that I know. 

Overreaction much? 

To add on to this, why even bother to kill all 3 eidolons unless your either a try hard or farming arcanes.  Scratch the last one as I remembered you don't even have to kill all of them to get arcanes.  So that leaves only try hards.  LOL.

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hace 1 minuto, MagPrime dijo:

Not gonna bother because I never made the claim I could do that, and that's not easy for a lot of meta players that I know. 

Overreaction much? 

you didnt even claim you could do end game content when i was clearly talking about end game content, then why try to lecture me on how can you excel at low-mid level content? with a non meta warframe? low-mid level content is not a problem, anything goes for having a good time, hell i love zephyr and i could say can perform the same as you with your mag, but if i have to kill an eidolon, then my zephyr goes out of the question same as your mag and many others, only volt, and harrow make for viable frames at killing eidolons, and thats the problem, same its going to happen with umbras when an army of super strong sentients get released doing "tau damage" leaving any other frame that is not an umbra useless

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4 minutes ago, Toppien said:

you didnt even claim you could do end game content when i was clearly talking about end game content, then why try to lecture me on how can you excel at low-mid level content? with a non meta warframe? low-mid level content is not a problem, anything goes for having a good time, hell i love zephyr and i could say can perform the same as you with your mag, but if i have to kill an eidolon, then my zephyr goes out of the question same as your mag and many others, only volt, and harrow make for viable frames at killing eidolons, and thats the problem, same its going to happen with umbras when an army of super strong sentients get released doing "tau damage" leaving any other frame that is not an umbra useless

Whatever man, enjoy your meta. XD

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17 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Not gonna bother because I never made the claim I could do that, and that's not easy for a lot of meta players that I know. 

Overreaction much? 

Yeah looks like it but i like the challenge solo eidolon with mag without a sniper.

remember the mitter thingy wonder how long they can stand that because as far as i know it was never fixed ^.^

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3 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

Yeah looks like it but i like the challenge solo eidolon with mag without a sniper.

remember the mitter thingy wonder how long they can stand that because as far as i know it was never fixed ^.^

Oooh, that does sound like fun! 

 

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9 minutes ago, Toppien said:

only volt, and harrow make for viable frames at killing eidolons,

Chroma, Ivara, and a few other frames might disagree with that statement.  😛 

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2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Oooh, that does sound like fun! 

 

totaly sound like "Hey remember the portable giant blender ?" in my head

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3 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

totaly sound like "Hey remember the portable giant blender ?" in my head

It does apply. 

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hace 9 minutos, MagPrime dijo:

Whatever man, enjoy your meta. XD

that the problem, i dont enjoy it, if i want those shiny arcanes i have to bend my knee, and go meta, that doesnt mean i enjoy it, i want to kill an eidolon with any frame and any weapon, but i guess wanting to get arcanes and invest it on my favorite warframes is "trying hard" i love how investing on myself and asking for a more open meta to everyone  is being seen as a reason to be antagonized.

hace 3 minutos, DatDarkOne dijo:

Chroma, Ivara, and a few other frames might disagree with that statement.  😛 

chroma i kinda get it, but he got some nerfs, ivara? the controlable arrow thing does that much damage? thats interesting, now that i think about it, i havent tried garuda to kill an eidolon either...

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3 minutes ago, Toppien said:

ivara? the controlable arrow thing does that much damage? thats interesting, now that i think about it,

You don't even need to use Navigator.  Regular Artemis Bow modded for Rad works just fine.  It's one of the known "metas" that I'm shocked you missed it.  

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hace 3 minutos, DatDarkOne dijo:

You don't even need to use Navigator.  Regular Artemis Bow modded for Rad works just fine.  It's one of the known "metas" that I'm shocked you missed it.  

well, im going to try it, ty for the info

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IIRC the umbra was quoted at being a limited series only once around dev 58 ish by sheldon 

since then that point has never been repeated in that phrase, they have stated a few times 

"not all frames will get an umbra but all frames get a prime " a few times in dev streams prior to excal umbras release

and its to be believed more umbras are to follow using the umbral polarity 

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