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(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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58 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

it could be a spoiler, but yea agree the term could be...

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As we know umbra forma is type of system still unknown, but ballas is the only one who know about umbra system, if possible if we able get a data and having the possible of many more to come, these warframe might get deploy sort of replacement of the drone...good gosh I just came with terrible idea, but sound good in some what way but still find it backfiring, sending warframe to protect the drone should of increase the chance survival or have it auto pick up and farming power...yea...its all over again metal gear soild peace walker's mini-game when you send in soldiers or vehicles into battle you get stuff...*slow facepalm* what da heck I turn this into...Anyway back to the main topic

As we know umbra forma is a material and it is possible highly that umbra may give memories to the warframe but either the warframe liked the tenno or go crazy like excal umbra, but I don't think all the warframe is against the tenno even thou some these warframe may not contain memories, but they know the tenno can eased their pain like ballas said.  Keeping it to lore, it is highly players will put umbra forma into all the prime...now imagine how many time we have to farm thous prime now? So if you kept 2 prime warframe good job, but if you have 1 prime warframe, your going say "F####!!!!!-" that could of screw up your build on your prime, its best to tested it out on your non-prime warframe I guess, its a good thing I still have spare prime ash around LOL.

As today, talk about omega forma which its interesting, the possible the omega forma might able use umbra if the forma is able use the symbol, but if not well we know it be full rank and has the piece right in place, as I place my bet this is going cost lots plat to have omega forma.

 

whole thread is a spoiler , literally its even tagged by mods xD, just saying but i appreciate you for doing it 

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I did have this Idea for "Nidus Umbra." the main reason for it is, as I learned that Excalibur Umbra, in the words of Ballas: But you won't have to imagine. A lovingly cultured Infestation swarms within your blood. Your transformation has begun, reshaping you into a sacred surrogate of the unholy Tenno... A Warframe with but a Single. Burning. Memory. It is... a miracle! But all miracles require sacrifice. With that, It lead me to Believe that For Nidus to be an Umbral frame would not only make sense, but it could be lore friendly with an infested twist.(seeing as how the helminth virus "Wishes to Serve" it could be fitting to have such a necessary evil fight the sentients.)

 

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8 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

whole thread is a spoiler , literally its even tagged by mods xD, just saying but i appreciate you for doing it 

yea that is true, anyway thinking about it possible DE will use umbra forma because we might find more of ballas's research if we ever come across it again I mean ballas had lots of time and lots moves to settled research of umbra, a perfect creation item or secretly he hasn't use his grand toy (not really lotus because of many reason) probably umbreo cecinerit (making unquie words for umbreo as in umbra, but cecinerit is meaning is here https://www.google.com/search?ei=-FE4XOTLNcrEswX_pqOADw&q=perfection+words+translate+to+latin&oq=perfection+words+translate+to+latin&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30.2935.10687..10927...5.0..0.114.1352.7j7......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39.s2iJreGTsDE)

it be crazy if ballas's had some unique warframe that he kept in the basement even greater dark secret then all of prime type of frames(more unquie then umbra).  It would be bazaar for type machine capable of wiping out whole planet and this little warframe is like a death star accept for compact size or either end up being a special orokin boss that change sentient become orokin.  I ask myself how did ballas is able struck a deal with the sentient with all this in the first place?  I know it started with her and had her becoming Lotus, some odd reason he didn't see it happen because he maybe too easy fool and into his own looks, but he isn't an idiot unless he has an ace for under his sleeved (if he had one lol), maybe a trade of this unique material like kuva for a trade to strike a bond or package of that equal of terms for betrayals to able over throw the jade light.  Its puzzle me why do he think that should eliminate only the orokin when you can eliminate both the same time, he could of lead the head of the sentient to its death and have the children to die with them into the void.  Ballas could of sent the whole ship of kids, set the ship self-destructed with the head sentient and they both die in the white void and kept lotus to himself.  Yet it feel like he is struggling (ha I shouldn't say that for in his case issue), maybe he struggling what is what to be meaning perfect.

Of course doing for the meme and how ballas love his old look he feel this way version.

Spoiler

4885501.jpg

until he got rechange and saw himself

Spoiler

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8RKHfZirVy0pY1gOUctW

geez I made it sound like ballas is so emo...maybe he is like the stalker

Edited by ChaoticEdge

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On 2018-12-09 at 8:48 PM, (XB1)Kavriel said:

I don't know what you're smoking, but I only use Operator for Eidolons, so frame choice is irrelevent.

 

This is true, but post Sacrifice at least one devstream mentioned Umbras and I believe it was Rebecca that said (while distracted) that all frames would get an umbra, but take that with a grain of salt.

 

Really, as much as I would like a story  quest for each Umbra, considering how long it takes to get a new story quest AND the fact that any frame that doesn't get an Umbra becomes invalidated by the meta, the best choice seems to be one elaborate story quest, or perhaps a replayable, raid-like challenge area that grants you the ability to 'Umbra' a frame that you already have maxed, probably the one you complete the challenge with. Story-wise you would be awakening your frame to allow its revenge, while on the technical side your frame is given special umbra cosmetics, the passive is replaced, and Umbra polarities added, saving a rediculous amount of dev time while still giving everyone what they want.

This way, every frame could have an Umbra, but it we avoid plotholes and powercreep as well as reward maxing a frame rather than ignoring and replacing it.

Maybe we could pick one of our favorite frames to " awaken " ,that would be cool , however it should either be insanely hard to do or have a limited number of frames that can be "Awakened". This would be very rewarding for players who "main" a warframe as it would give that players warframe special abilities that can be exclusive to their favorite playstyle. Maybe focus 3.0 could be just that, similar to how the sacrifice was all about connecting  to a warframe and working as a team, we could pick one frame, awaken it, then gradually unlock new abilities when using that specific frame. That Would be cool, seeing my umbral (Insert warframe) fighting alongside me.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

@ChaoticEdge seems to have been inspired by your concept @(XB1)Skullstachio and has asked i restart my umbra concept art tradition (were i take requests and make an umbra variants design) 

so if you have feedback to Nidus umbras design and appearance ill  try my hand at it 

probably a skin, but as we know the umbra forma maybe not do exact same as umbra excal to able walk by itself, it is 50/50 right there because it is possible that umbra system is very unique sentient killer.  Then again possible the DE will pull wool out our eye and revealed its a skin umbra for all the warframe...welp one way or the other DE somehow able kill the dream of ppl having.

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6 minutes ago, Xenophil said:

Only one Umbra.

the problem is we do not know how many umbra that ballas did.

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11 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

the problem is we do not know how many umbra that ballas did.

Or in fact, the actual qualifiers for becoming an Umbra.

It sounds like Ballas did it by accident, so does that make trauma the qualifier? You could say that Valkyr didn't become Umbral, but as far as we know the only Valkyr used died on the table. 

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8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Or in fact, the actual qualifiers for becoming an Umbra.

It sounds like Ballas did it by accident, so does that make trauma the qualifier? You could say that Valkyr didn't become Umbral, but as far as we know the only Valkyr used died on the table. 

even thou his accident making umbra, it doesn't mean use it as save up back up plans, there is reason why hide your greatest idea among the world, think about it if ballas has all the time in the world he would of made progress of his unique project and not had anyone know about this, ask yourself he did his project on umbra excal and slowly it was devouring him whole losing his will to able put his rage on ballas for his life and was force to kill his own son one the dax guards.  Given time he destory umbra excal, it doesn't seem he didn't really need umbra excal because he is just a tool not needed anymore, even thou his project must of provide some secrets that he hid that why there is a leak about umbra forma and omega forma of possible could be created by ballas.  The unknown power could been hidden even more ballas must of made lots unknown varieties play things or testing things out without supervision of any orokin people.

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will point out that umbra we know (aka umbra excal via the dax) was classified as subject #9 via the translations

so we already know there were in prior at least 8 other attempts 

we also know that umbra strain si seperate from the helmith aka (helmith = prime/vanillas) (umbral= umbra)

there are at this time two distinct strains , with umbras allowing a memory to create his personal sentience, not to mention his ability to nullify sentient adaption and being geared towards being a sentient slayer was the goal of this strain specifically

(further umbras may be new or old,  no order is yet given and that the umbras can be created by infecting people via umbra himself via helmith and injecting into new people is a possibility)

that said, we also know per dev stream we know umbra excal is the 1st of the new line and more are to come 

regardless of this more umbras will be required to combat the new sentient threat via

Related image

Edited by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

*snip*

huh, still umbra will be coming out one way or the other about the umbra forma because ppl wanted umbra and possible wanted umbra skins.  Its like digging gold and you got two piece of gold of unique additional gems stone along with it and one is prime a diamond and umbra beautiful of its yellow diamond which there is more possible of feeling of polishing it full status.

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Or in a sense, as the Helminth quoted:

I wish to serve, yet I am weak. Time heals the mind.

It would actually make some sense if we, The Tenno, found a way to evolve the Helminth virus, to strengthen it and be able to “Lovingly Cultivate” it with an existing mature cyst to be able to give said Warframe the gift of sentience amongst other unique perks like Excalibur umbra (minus the orokin look replacing it with a more “infested” look to it.)

9 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

@ChaoticEdge seems to have been inspired by your concept @(XB1)Skullstachio and has asked i restart my umbra concept art tradition (were i take requests and make an umbra variants design) 

so if you have feedback to Nidus umbras design and appearance ill  try my hand at it 

I kinda figured there would be a type of “Patient Zero” kind of look (something along the lines of a half a human skull being visible underneath as well as some parts of the body showing some “skeletal visibility” to give ‘em a form of that “wear and tear” look from when it was first infected. When building mutation, the areas of skeletal visibility get filled in by the mutagenetic tissue that is the Helminth, which completes the infested look.) because the infestation has to start somewhere. As it was said on the main page for the Helminth virus on the wiki: It is revealed during The Sacrifice by Executor Ballas that the Helminth was created by the Orokin to convert human subjects into Infested-hybrids, giving birth to Warframes. According to Ballas' Vitruvian, when a subject is exposed to a Helminth strain, it transforms their skin into sword-steel, as well as interlinking their internal organs into untold resilience, while at the same time preventing the same infestation from destroying their mind.

In that instance, and in accordance to the details here. The Origin of Nidus Umbra could start with a somewhat direct tie to the so called “Great Plague” like the subtle clue in the “Mire” sword, giving the backstory to Nidus Umbra something interesting.

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14 hours ago, (XB1)Skullstachio said:

Or in a sense, as the Helminth quoted:

I wish to serve, yet I am weak. Time heals the mind.

It would actually make some sense if we, The Tenno, found a way to evolve the Helminth virus, to strengthen it and be able to “Lovingly Cultivate” it with an existing mature cyst to be able to give said Warframe the gift of sentience amongst other unique perks like Excalibur umbra (minus the orokin look replacing it with a more “infested” look to it.)

I kinda figured there would be a type of “Patient Zero” kind of look (something along the lines of a half a human skull being visible underneath as well as some parts of the body showing some “skeletal visibility” to give ‘em a form of that “wear and tear” look from when it was first infected. When building mutation, the areas of skeletal visibility get filled in by the mutagenetic tissue that is the Helminth, which completes the infested look.) because the infestation has to start somewhere. As it was said on the main page for the Helminth virus on the wiki: It is revealed during The Sacrifice by Executor Ballas that the Helminth was created by the Orokin to convert human subjects into Infested-hybrids, giving birth to Warframes. According to Ballas' Vitruvian, when a subject is exposed to a Helminth strain, it transforms their skin into sword-steel, as well as interlinking their internal organs into untold resilience, while at the same time preventing the same infestation from destroying their mind.

In that instance, and in accordance to the details here. The Origin of Nidus Umbra could start with a somewhat direct tie to the so called “Great Plague” like the subtle clue in the “Mire” sword, giving the backstory to Nidus Umbra something interesting.

the great plague per timeline was before warframes , this was in the time per vitruvan we know orokin were experimenting with the infested virus and created the "gardens" from which they derived weapons like more, and the warframes themselves.

this was the source of the helmith a hybrid they created that was able to create people into warframes , infested without the madness 

from this we know warframes came after the incedent , from the understanding of nidus as the helmith master, he is able to control infested units to his will to a degree, meaning he was probably created as an attempt to place infested forced/hive under his command and use them as an additional force for the orokin in their war with the sentient 

though given that we as nidus cannot do this ourselves other then control helmith it makes me this was not successful.

given all this is after the great plague it stands to reason umbras as a new strain which was done using the dax soldier and in his fluid bags , we can assume umbra himself hold the active " sentient slayer virus" for lack of a better name

the slayers virus allows for umbral polarities , a innate polarity specific to this unit class, as well as a special power to negate sentient debuff stats (an altered power in case of the excalibur u howl)

prime/vanilla = helmith strain

 umbra = sentient slayer strain 

we already know there is difference between prime and umbras not just passively but in combat and range of usable mods 

so its more likely umbra nidus if created was after umbra as per lore excaliburs are the 1st of the warframe lines 

as i see it lore wise nidus umbra himself could be a later attempt at trying to not only refine the sentient slayer virus but to then once again try to regain control of the infested hordes under one command if that makes sense

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I recall nothing in the current lore that stated umbra was infected by a different strain than any other warframe.

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12 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

I recall nothing in the current lore that stated umbra was infected by a different strain than any other warframe.

I beleive it's the "lovingly cultured" portion of what Ballas states that folks are pointing at. Something like "The others, we gave them the industrial doses, we broke them quickly. Nothing left over afterwards. But. . . you? I made something extra special for you. . . I want to make sure you suffer every waking moment from here on out."

 

You could further stretch this out with the idea that, as the Empire was starting to crumble, Ballas went on an angry vengeance quest to torture everyone who had ever wronged him, making them kill their loved ones in an even more grotesque parody of the Marghulian Execution.

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On 2019-01-12 at 10:44 AM, Chaemyerelis said:

I recall nothing in the current lore that stated umbra was infected by a different strain than any other warframe.

 

On 2019-01-12 at 11:03 AM, Unus said:

I beleive it's the "lovingly cultured" portion of what Ballas states that folks are pointing at. Something like "The others, we gave them the industrial doses, we broke them quickly. Nothing left over afterwards. But. . . you? I made something extra special for you. . . I want to make sure you suffer every waking moment from here on out."

 

You could further stretch this out with the idea that, as the Empire was starting to crumble, Ballas went on an angry vengeance quest to torture everyone who had ever wronged him, making them kill their loved ones in an even more grotesque parody of the Marghulian Execution.

in a nut shell the dax was onto ballas, ballas silenced him and then decided to experiment on him for funsies

from the info we have from translating orokin text on the teaser images, we know umbra (the dax) was subject nine , he was also outfitted with a transference bolt number 01 , which is probably a factor in his sentience and draw of void energy without an operator 

Spoiler

unknown.png

in this case our dax is awakened stating he will be unable to speak as the disease has taken hold of him 

Ballas: Good morning, old friend.
Ballas: I'm afraid the disease has taken your voice, but we've prepared the finest serums to treat you.

the serum itself is probably the disease concoction that is infecting the dax and slowly transforming him, to umbra

Spoiler

Image result for sacrifice warframe bedQ46UG5y.jpg

the rate of the infection spread shown by the infection present on the wall and the dax slowly taking on umbras form (scarf ect visible)  as well as the bags draining into him via the orokin device 

 

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I know it has been asked a lot for mods in general, but it would be really great if DE could do something about it. Im talking about choosing the mod lvl after you leveled it up. I'm not asking this for every single mods in the game, just for umbra mods, since you can't get more than 1 pair and sometimes you don't want it max ranked. I'm building a super tanky inaros right now and I need the 3 umbra mods to make it work, but even with a bunch of formas, I can't place all the mods I want because of the ability strength mod of the umbra set. If I were able to just change it, my build would work perfectly. So it would be awesome to be able to either get a new set some way or change the lvl of the mods. 

 

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This problem was meant to be. The umbral warframe mods are to be used on Umbra. Sure, you can forma the hell out of your other frames, but they still won't fit. It's nice to see people talking about their umbral builds, they surely put a lot of thought and effort in them, but personally I wouldn't do that. Tempting, but feels like you are sweating too much for something won't work perfectly anyway. And if you forma too many slots, there's not much chance for variability either.

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I would just wait until umbra forma comes out unless you plan on using 5-7 forma like some of us have done to use umbra mods.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

This problem was meant to be. The umbral warframe mods are to be used on Umbra. Sure, you can forma the hell out of your other frames, but they still won't fit. It's nice to see people talking about their umbral builds, they surely put a lot of thought and effort in them, but personally I wouldn't do that. Tempting, but feels like you are sweating too much for something won't work perfectly anyway. And if you forma too many slots, there's not much chance for variability either.

I made some Umbral builds and yeah since you basically have to forma every single slot you end up really limited when making a configuration B, C builds. That's why I only make an Umbral build if I already have 2 of the same frame so I can use the second frame for more flexible builds.

However I wouldn't say they don't work perfectly, you simply do not level other mods all the way and always level them to even numbers and you can pretty much fit everything you need. I don't even use Steel Charge on my Umbral builds, all (except Valkyr) are modded for Naramon polarity.

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12 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

I made some Umbral builds and yeah since you basically have to forma every single slot you end up really limited when making a configuration B, C builds. That's why I only make an Umbral build if I already have 2 of the same frame so I can use the second frame for more flexible builds.

However I wouldn't say they don't work perfectly, you simply do not level other mods all the way and always level them to even numbers and you can pretty much fit everything you need. I don't even use Steel Charge on my Umbral builds, all (except Valkyr) are modded for Naramon polarity.

It's a nice idea, to use multiple frames, haven't thought of that. Probably I'm just too lazy to go Umbra!

Would you mind posting your build? I'm curious, and it might help OP as well!

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

It's a nice idea, to use multiple frames, haven't thought of that. Probably I'm just too lazy to go Umbra!

Would you mind posting your build? I'm curious, and it might help OP as well!

Sure, Nidus is a good candidate for Umbral build because he benefits from Armor, Health and Strenght, at the same time he just needs extra range for his larva ability and energy efficiency is not an issue on this build since he regains all energy back when hitting 4 enemies with his 1th ability, and if he hits more then 4 enemies he actually gains energy with each hit.

So this is the standard build I'm using:

ShMltC3.jpg

Blind Range is leveled only to rank 6, even "only" 244% power strength is kinda overkill for 99% of Warframe content, efficiency is lower but it still enables for some mistakes. Adaptation greatly increases suitability and Hunter Adrenaline ensures that if Nidus does take a pounding he will have energy to pound back.

Now for starchart content I'm actually going to leave Blind Rage slot empty because it kills enemies too fast and I can't collect stacks 🙂

And this is a build for long survivals I'm using:

cD7dK66.jpg

On this build Blind range is at rank 10 and I used rank 4 Hunter Adrenaline and rank 4 Strech to compensate. 

In high level content Nidus is going to tank a lot of damage so due to Hunter Adrenaline energy will almost always be toped off, range got a really small reduction. Due to higher ability strength I get more damage on his 1 and more healing from his 4 and I need both of those to survive.

And this is a Valkyr build I'm currently working on, once again Valkyr benefits from Armor, Health and Ability Strength and other then that she basically just needs some durability/efficiency.

yhc2C3v.jpg

Now Arcane Energize is kinda overkill on this build, it really doesn't need it, Valkyr gains energy when she get's damaged and when the energy is full player uses her 4 gains immortality and kills stuff and gets healed in the process... repeats. There are a couple of things to watch out for, nullifier bubbles, energy leeches... but that's what I like about this build, it's not just immortal build like Inaros... player has to play smart to make use of it.

Here I do use Steel Charge both because of extra 4 mod space and because I mainly use melee with this build, with Eternal War augment I usually have to cast Warcry just once and it lasts for entire match. I modded her talons with Primed pressure Point, Sacrificial Steel (although just True Steel is fine too), Organ Shatter, Gladiator Might, Shocking Touch, Molten Impact, Berserker and Drifting Contact. Valkyr gets healed for 5% damage she does with her Talons and since radiation ignores 75% of the armor she will always deal enough damage to heal herself really fast.

Edited by LightZodiac
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Thank you, LightZodiac, this is useful! Valkyr is my all time favourite frame, I even have a spare unbuilt prime, so what the hell, I'll just go ahead and try this, I guess. Earlier I got things the wrong way around. When I tried building something with the umbral mods, I always tried to squeeze them in between my mods I already had installed, instead of fitting more or less levelled ordinary mods after already having the umbral ones on. I also feel an urge to fill the exilus slot as well, but I see it's not necessary.

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