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(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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I think Excalibur Umbra should get a signature sidearm.

I don’t know what they’d call the sidearm. I’m guessing something Latin/Sanscrit? Or maybe just Umbral/Umbra Lato or Aklato? It could be something that synergies with Skiajati’s special ability to cloak on finishers.

I know some people think the content is “done” and whatnot, but is it? Since he’s not just equipment but an actual living character, with descendants and everything (possibly) he may actually play an important role in future quests, beyond just being a reward for completing The Sacrifice.

Maybe you can find some of his old equipment somewhere down the line? Heck, maybe he’ll have a special Primary weapon as well. What are the odds he relied solely on his sword? (I mean, it’s possible, but...)

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2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

For the operator you are right but that's one option out of many. I mean, almost every primaries get rid of those pretty quickly when builts correctly.

very few of them are Primaries That I use, most of my primaries are slow single shot weapons.  the fastest one that I use is the rubico or the Sybaris prime. (for a good image I like the lenz, tonkor, exergis, and Corinth) 

2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

No.

where and on what world for most levels up to 100 once I build combo enemies just get destroyed.  (even beyond but then I need more combo) I did a pub T3 sorti survival with my valk build and a hybrid blood rush sigma & octantis aginst eximus stronghold grineer.  despiate that build being weaker than my normal polearm build it had no trouble chewing through all units including noxes and any eximi.  

2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

That's completely unrelated to the the point you quoted, what you are basically saying is that non-tanking frame shouldn't be able to use close range melee outside and even inside the context of a survivability build for the really frail ones. That's a very ridiculous idea. Power strength increase the power of the frame, you spin faster, you do more damage, you clean faster, simple logic. And I already told you about your point, I do not know why you keep bringing that up and dodging its lack of relevance. 

you missed my point entirely.  you are way past the knee of the curve. increasing your power strength by less than 60 cost you 8000 EHP over a more diverse build.  with my build, I still have access to her 4, +122% armor and melee attack speed (more than what is good for most melees form a control standpoint see final harbinger and to some extent tempo royal) I am stating that you build is not any more powerful and has lower utility (making it less useful in normal content) than the full umbral build and for what one forma and an exilis slot.  

I am not stating that a banshee cant do close range melee if built properly (this is not a health build) but I am stating that if a frame can take damage there is no reason why it should be built like Ivara (ie to never take damage).  even then you don't build Ivara for pure strength as she wants efficiency range and duration depending on the build and use case.  

what I am saying is that if you build for one stat exclusively you weaken the build as a whole.  by getting that 300 ish power strength total you reduced your EHP by more than half despite only increasing your total power by 25%.  my point was the built is very inefficient and does not improve anything for my use case you literally sent me a built that will not work for what I use Valk for.  

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2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Ugh. It's so ugly. I much prefer the pre-Keith Thompson designs for the Sentients (the Hunhow design).

 

That aside, I doubt this is going to come with Tau. I think this is just going to come with The New War, and it'll probably be similar to the Kuva Fortress functionally.

I've talked about this a couple of times over a couple threads, but I don't think the pre-Keith Thompson design philosophy has been removed - it shows back up in the Sacrifice with the Mimics, and the Battacor. What seems to be the case is that each Sentient has their own spin on the 'Sentient' aesthetic. Compare this Sentient to Hunhow, to the Eidolons and even Lotus - they all have differences, subtle and not-so-subtle.

Hunhow has that smooth design you like.

Lotus by comparison looks almost like she's organic in places.

The Eidolons also have an organic twist, but in the sense of their actual structure.

And this one has this discomforting, geometric look to it.

That's not to say you're not allowed to dislike these other aesthetics, it's just that I don't think it's a case of artstyle drift over time, but instead of an intentional way to clue us in which Sentients are involved where. You could say each Sentient's aesthetic is their 'face', in a way.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I've talked about this a couple of times over a couple threads, but I don't think the pre-Keith Thompson design philosophy has been removed - it shows back up in the Sacrifice with the Mimics, and the Battacor. What seems to be the case is that each Sentient has their own spin on the 'Sentient' aesthetic. Compare this Sentient to Hunhow, to the Eidolons and even Lotus - they all have differences, subtle and not-so-subtle.

Hunhow has that smooth design you like.

Lotus by comparison looks almost like she's organic in places.

The Eidolons also have an organic twist, but in the sense of their actual structure.

And this one has this discomforting, geometric look to it.

That's not to say you're not allowed to dislike these other aesthetics, it's just that I don't think it's a case of artstyle drift over time, but instead of an intentional way to clue us in which Sentients are involved where. You could say each Sentient's aesthetic is their 'face', in a way.

I think the organic look is too similar to the Infested, quite frankly.

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49 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

very few of them are Primaries That I use, most of my primaries are slow single shot weapons.  the fastest one that I use is the rubico or the Sybaris prime. (for a good image I like the lenz, tonkor, exergis, and Corinth) 

Ok ? Then use a secondary.

50 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

where and on what world for most levels up to 100 once I build combo enemies just get destroyed.  (even beyond but then I need more combo) I did a pub T3 sorti survival with my valk build and a hybrid blood rush sigma & octantis aginst eximus stronghold grineer.  despiate that build being weaker than my normal polearm build it had no trouble chewing through all units including noxes and any eximi.  

You said that you couldn't do a melee build without a full tank build on a valkyr, it has nothing to do with the offensiveness of melee, it's just that meme'ing builds are for the most part the only builds who don't require you an insane amount of ehp to perform. Hence, No, melee is not plently good without meme'ing "based on your feedback". 

59 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

you missed my point entirely.  you are way past the knee of the curve. increasing your power strength by less than 60 cost you 8000 EHP over a more diverse build.  with my build, I still have access to her 4, +122% armor and melee attack speed (more than what is good for most melees form a control standpoint see final harbinger and to some extent tempo royal) I am stating that you build is not any more powerful and has lower utility (making it less useful in normal content) than the full umbral build and for what one forma and an exilis slot.  

No I didn't but you do over and over again. So -AGAIN- more EHP =/= more powerful. The only thing that makes you feel that way is the fact that you use a low spec melee setup and it requires you that EHP to succeed despite how completely useless it is once you get out of your own loop and gameplay. More attack speed = more dps = stronger. Why do we always end up here ? Why do you insist despite admitting the short coming of your own setup ? Sorry but it doesn't make any sense to me.

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

I am not stating that a banshee cant do close range melee if built properly (this is not a health build) but I am stating that if a frame can take damage there is no reason why it should be built like Ivara (ie to never take damage).  even then you don't build Ivara for pure strength as she wants efficiency range and duration depending on the build and use case.  

Banshee is a very different and selective case and that doesn't really fix the absurdity of the thought. Building for more damage and limited survivability is the essence of frailer frames because they benefit that much out of it. If building for their own benefit exclude them from the "classic" melee loop there indeed is an issue with basic melee to begin with. But again that's something you can't really comprehend if you don't even understand why I don't need any survivability mod to go 12+ with a valkyr in eso.

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

what I am saying is that if you build for one stat exclusively you weaken the build as a whole.  by getting that 300 ish power strength total you reduced your EHP by more than half despite only increasing your total power by 25%.  my point was the built is very inefficient and does not improve anything for my use case you literally sent me a built that will not work for what I use Valk for.  

That is not what you said and that isn't what I said either. Strength makes valkyr stronger, some other frame will prefer duration, some other effiency, some other range, I am not even sure why you would use contextual stats to make a point... what I said is that there's a clear limit to how much ehp is needed when you play right. The build is perfectly efficient for your initial requirement, later on you said that it was to optimize focus farm which is an entirely different concept that is irrelevant to power creep. So yes, obviously, it will not work for what you are trying to do but it doesn't really change much to the conclusion. 

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You have yet to explain why Umbra should get more equipment, given his quest is already out, he is already out, his weapon is already yours. Are you really proposing handing more free weapons to players, with slots, for no real reason other than you want it?

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34 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You have yet to explain why Umbra should get more equipment, given his quest is already out, he is already out, his weapon is already yours. Are you really proposing handing more free weapons to players, with slots, for no real reason other than you want it?

First of all, never said it should be free. None of it is. You earn it.

Second of all, why NOT have more Umbra weapons?

Actually, now that I think on it, it’s an inevitability really. Just like it’s inevitable that there’s going to be more Umbra Warframes, and more Umbral Mods.

I just think it lacks a certain symmetry that he doesn’t have a signature sidearm. A sidearm and a melee weapon. Like his primed variant.

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb -Kittens-:

How about you don't tell me how to play the game or what to use in it.

Who's doing that? You can mess up your stuff to your own content. Go catch some wool.

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Well he did come out with the nikana prime and spira prime in the Chinese version. And the Skiajati is basically a shadowy Nikana. So I could see him having his own throwing secondary. Almost a mixer between stalker’s despair and the Spira Prime. They could have a  hush effect. And possibly have a really fast reload speed. 

For a primary, I could somewhat see a umbra styled Paris. Have U like designes on it. A U on the front handle part. Maybe even the arrow tips have a U design for double piercing. So basically double the actual damage shown in the stats. Could even have like the fastest charge rate of all bows.

But that would also mean more umbral mods specifically for primaries and secondaries. Obviously sacrificial-like damage mods for both. Maybe critical chance as well. Or critical damage. 

Either way, I agree that Umbra feels incomplete without his own primary and/or secondary. 

Just my opinion anyways.

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40 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

i have no idea were this discussion spurred from 

I think someone asked how to build Umbra and those two disagreed.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Shelusine said:

You said that you couldn't do a melee build without a full tank build on a valkyr, it has nothing to do with the offensiveness of melee, it's just that meme'ing builds are for the most part the only builds who don't require you an insane amount of ehp to perform. Hence, No, melee is not plently good without meme'ing "based on your feedback". 

the comment is based on ESO with host migrations and soloing after a full squad leaves (there are so many bugs that it is not really worth doing once that happens).  melee does not have trouble killing things the problem is that on large trials I will take significant damage while locked in animation for some melee attacks (tempo royal is the worst offender but twirling spire is not that much better).  

 

Edited by spirit_of_76
it was unfinished

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9 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Well he did come out with the nikana prime and spira prime in the Chinese version. And the Skiajati is basically a shadowy Nikana. So I could see him having his own throwing secondary. Almost a mixer between stalker’s despair and the Spira Prime. They could have a  hush effect. And possibly have a really fast reload speed. 

For a primary, I could somewhat see a umbra styled Paris. Have U like designes on it. A U on the front handle part. Maybe even the arrow tips have a U design for double piercing. So basically double the actual damage shown in the stats. Could even have like the fastest charge rate of all bows.

But that would also mean more umbral mods specifically for primaries and secondaries. Obviously sacrificial-like damage mods for both. Maybe critical chance as well. Or critical damage. 

Either way, I agree that Umbra feels incomplete without his own primary and/or secondary. 

Just my opinion anyways.

Not just your opinion clearly, glad I’m not the only one who senses the incompleteness of it. 😊

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I suspect they're planning something for Umbral stuff. Adding the Umbral Forma while talking about The New War and then adding the Paraceisis with damage to Sentients before it can't be coincidental. Hopefully new Umbral stuff won't drop fully-levelled, though. Why even IS that the case with the Excalibur Umbra and his weapons?

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3 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

the comment is based on ESO with host migrations and soloing after a full squad leaves (there are so many bugs that it is not really worth doing once that happens).  melee does not have trouble killing things the problem is that on large trials I will take significant damage while locked in animation for some melee attacks (tempo royal is the worst offender but twirling spire is not that much better).  

 

You misread me or I am not sure where you are going with that.

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Ok so first things first Excal Umbra should be the only one with a story mission and obtainable through said story mission so excal umbra keeps its uniqueness. secondly I think Umbra frames should be better than primes otherwise what's the point of adding a new type of frame, However, to ensure that these do not make primes obsolete and crash the plat economy, Umbra frames should NOT be tradable, and can only be obtainable (besides umbra excal) by corrupting prime frames. So once you get a prime frame built and once it reaches lvl 30 a mission on your star chart will pop up and you have to do it with that prime frame, the mission can either be a unique mission depending on the frame, say a speed mission for nezha, or a stealth platformer mission for ivara, or it could be a very difficult mission like 60 min survival with lvl 200 enemies, or defense or something along the lines of that. upon completion a cutscene will play showing your prime frame becoming corrupted, it'll start to yell and what not or something kool, it'll glow and get a scarf. If umbra frames aren't as good as prime frames than there's no incentive to get them, but if they replace prime frames then what's the point of getting prime frames anymore. I think this is a perfect way to balance the new frames so that they don't completely break the current system. This would actually drive up the worth of prime frames since you need them to make umbral frames and since they won't be tradable they won't devalue prime frames. plus I think from a story perspective corrupting primes to make them umbras would be really cool. I think excal umbra should remain the way he currently is but there should be a way to increase excal umbra and excal prime for founders to the same stats of the new umbras. so that way umbra can remain relevant still, (and  as an excal main nothing terrifies me more than having excal get forgotten), Umbra excal and excal p could upgarde to new umbra stats by doing the same types of missions as corrupting prime frames.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

With this devstream they reassured that there will be more Umbra frames but there's no details on it.

 

ya i heard im pretty excited (another 3+ years jk....)

i was very glad they answered this as its something we needed verified 

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sorry your "disappointed", but your kinda late to the party then as de has already stated in dev 58 that the plan for umbras would have more then just excalibur umbra, the problem was how fast we were going to get them out and as weve seen it takes time , but as its been stated "REPEATEDLY" that excalibur umbra was the 1st of this line and more were to follow. i dont see how this would be a real "surprise" 

ive even explained some good points as to WHY the new umbras are a needed development as this game progresses in a recent post when umbra forma was released

the basics is prime and umbras are side grades to each other, but each is specialized in its own place combat wise and fulfill a role in squad 

so take it as you will, but if you didnt read up on the subject , i do keep it all in the OP 

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I am sorry but I see nothing official that was in discussion for more different Umbras before.

All you informations are based ONLY on excalibur Umbra.

Don't try use artificial arguments that are only about excalibur umbra and not about other potential Umbral warframes please !

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17 hours ago, Rathalio said:

I am sorry but I see nothing official that was in discussion for more different Umbras before.

All you informations are based ONLY on excalibur Umbra.

Don't try use artificial arguments that are only about excalibur umbra and not about other potential Umbral warframes please !

dev stream 58: umbras are coming to global , the 1st will be excalibur umbra

: / 8:15 time 

so hows that artificial when it was stated literally in a devstream by sheldon

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