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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]


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Topic kinda says it all. I think Umbra Excalibur should have a unique sidearm.

Excalibur Prime has the Skana Prime and the Lex Prime, so Excalibur Umbra should totes have a gun to go with his Skiajati.

Preferably with a unique ability. Maybe something that opens enemies up to finishers, or that takes advantage of stealth? I don’t know.

Edit: Oof. Not Lex Prime. Lato Prime.

Edited by (XB1)Fat Gregory
self correction
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21 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

umm no melee is plenty good without meming at lest after you build combo

No.

21 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

depends on the enemies light corrupted and corpus solo no grineer yah sure that is fine as long as there are no heavies.  remember ESO has higher enemy density than normal missions

I am maxing focus gains and twirling spire is more powerful than the bleeding willow quick melee (granted it is not as versatile but it has better AOE and forced procs, multistrike and damage amplification).

the operator is fine as long as the ping is fine otherwise it is not I do use the operator when I am host.   

Yes, I thought of enough ways to deal with those to know that they are not threat even high density. 

If you're trying to max focus gains you are honestly playing the wrong frame but regardless of that, focus oriented builds are kind of unrelated to a power creep argument.

For the operator you are right but that's one option out of many. I mean, almost every primaries get rid of those pretty quickly when builts correctly.

22 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

if you need all the power strength in the world to spin then there is a problem with spinning the umbral build has an advantage of 4000  ehp for the cost of 1 forma my point is that your build does less than mine for and only gains the exalis slot.  I run the health so I can just take damage on large maps and simply melee toward the enemy or just jump into the fray.  

That's completely unrelated to the the point you quoted, what you are basically saying is that non-tanking frame shouldn't be able to use close range melee outside and even inside the context of a survivability build for the really frail ones. That's a very ridiculous idea. Power strength increase the power of the frame, you spin faster, you do more damage, you clean faster, simple logic. And I already told you about your point, I do not know why you keep bringing that up and dodging its lack of relevance. 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

we havent had any info on going to tau yet, so far we have the sentient space fortress aka space grandma 

Image result for sentient fortress

Ugh. It's so ugly. I much prefer the pre-Keith Thompson designs for the Sentients (the Hunhow design).

 

That aside, I doubt this is going to come with Tau. I think this is just going to come with The New War, and it'll probably be similar to the Kuva Fortress functionally.

Edited by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n
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I think Excalibur Umbra should get a signature sidearm.

I don’t know what they’d call the sidearm. I’m guessing something Latin/Sanscrit? Or maybe just Umbral/Umbra Lato or Aklato? It could be something that synergies with Skiajati’s special ability to cloak on finishers.

I know some people think the content is “done” and whatnot, but is it? Since he’s not just equipment but an actual living character, with descendants and everything (possibly) he may actually play an important role in future quests, beyond just being a reward for completing The Sacrifice.

Maybe you can find some of his old equipment somewhere down the line? Heck, maybe he’ll have a special Primary weapon as well. What are the odds he relied solely on his sword? (I mean, it’s possible, but...)

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2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

For the operator you are right but that's one option out of many. I mean, almost every primaries get rid of those pretty quickly when builts correctly.

very few of them are Primaries That I use, most of my primaries are slow single shot weapons.  the fastest one that I use is the rubico or the Sybaris prime. (for a good image I like the lenz, tonkor, exergis, and Corinth) 

2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

No.

where and on what world for most levels up to 100 once I build combo enemies just get destroyed.  (even beyond but then I need more combo) I did a pub T3 sorti survival with my valk build and a hybrid blood rush sigma & octantis aginst eximus stronghold grineer.  despiate that build being weaker than my normal polearm build it had no trouble chewing through all units including noxes and any eximi.  

2 hours ago, Shelusine said:

That's completely unrelated to the the point you quoted, what you are basically saying is that non-tanking frame shouldn't be able to use close range melee outside and even inside the context of a survivability build for the really frail ones. That's a very ridiculous idea. Power strength increase the power of the frame, you spin faster, you do more damage, you clean faster, simple logic. And I already told you about your point, I do not know why you keep bringing that up and dodging its lack of relevance. 

you missed my point entirely.  you are way past the knee of the curve. increasing your power strength by less than 60 cost you 8000 EHP over a more diverse build.  with my build, I still have access to her 4, +122% armor and melee attack speed (more than what is good for most melees form a control standpoint see final harbinger and to some extent tempo royal) I am stating that you build is not any more powerful and has lower utility (making it less useful in normal content) than the full umbral build and for what one forma and an exilis slot.  

I am not stating that a banshee cant do close range melee if built properly (this is not a health build) but I am stating that if a frame can take damage there is no reason why it should be built like Ivara (ie to never take damage).  even then you don't build Ivara for pure strength as she wants efficiency range and duration depending on the build and use case.  

what I am saying is that if you build for one stat exclusively you weaken the build as a whole.  by getting that 300 ish power strength total you reduced your EHP by more than half despite only increasing your total power by 25%.  my point was the built is very inefficient and does not improve anything for my use case you literally sent me a built that will not work for what I use Valk for.  

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2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Ugh. It's so ugly. I much prefer the pre-Keith Thompson designs for the Sentients (the Hunhow design).

 

That aside, I doubt this is going to come with Tau. I think this is just going to come with The New War, and it'll probably be similar to the Kuva Fortress functionally.

I've talked about this a couple of times over a couple threads, but I don't think the pre-Keith Thompson design philosophy has been removed - it shows back up in the Sacrifice with the Mimics, and the Battacor. What seems to be the case is that each Sentient has their own spin on the 'Sentient' aesthetic. Compare this Sentient to Hunhow, to the Eidolons and even Lotus - they all have differences, subtle and not-so-subtle.

Hunhow has that smooth design you like.

Lotus by comparison looks almost like she's organic in places.

The Eidolons also have an organic twist, but in the sense of their actual structure.

And this one has this discomforting, geometric look to it.

That's not to say you're not allowed to dislike these other aesthetics, it's just that I don't think it's a case of artstyle drift over time, but instead of an intentional way to clue us in which Sentients are involved where. You could say each Sentient's aesthetic is their 'face', in a way.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I've talked about this a couple of times over a couple threads, but I don't think the pre-Keith Thompson design philosophy has been removed - it shows back up in the Sacrifice with the Mimics, and the Battacor. What seems to be the case is that each Sentient has their own spin on the 'Sentient' aesthetic. Compare this Sentient to Hunhow, to the Eidolons and even Lotus - they all have differences, subtle and not-so-subtle.

Hunhow has that smooth design you like.

Lotus by comparison looks almost like she's organic in places.

The Eidolons also have an organic twist, but in the sense of their actual structure.

And this one has this discomforting, geometric look to it.

That's not to say you're not allowed to dislike these other aesthetics, it's just that I don't think it's a case of artstyle drift over time, but instead of an intentional way to clue us in which Sentients are involved where. You could say each Sentient's aesthetic is their 'face', in a way.

I think the organic look is too similar to the Infested, quite frankly.

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49 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

very few of them are Primaries That I use, most of my primaries are slow single shot weapons.  the fastest one that I use is the rubico or the Sybaris prime. (for a good image I like the lenz, tonkor, exergis, and Corinth) 

Ok ? Then use a secondary.

50 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

where and on what world for most levels up to 100 once I build combo enemies just get destroyed.  (even beyond but then I need more combo) I did a pub T3 sorti survival with my valk build and a hybrid blood rush sigma & octantis aginst eximus stronghold grineer.  despiate that build being weaker than my normal polearm build it had no trouble chewing through all units including noxes and any eximi.  

You said that you couldn't do a melee build without a full tank build on a valkyr, it has nothing to do with the offensiveness of melee, it's just that meme'ing builds are for the most part the only builds who don't require you an insane amount of ehp to perform. Hence, No, melee is not plently good without meme'ing "based on your feedback". 

59 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

you missed my point entirely.  you are way past the knee of the curve. increasing your power strength by less than 60 cost you 8000 EHP over a more diverse build.  with my build, I still have access to her 4, +122% armor and melee attack speed (more than what is good for most melees form a control standpoint see final harbinger and to some extent tempo royal) I am stating that you build is not any more powerful and has lower utility (making it less useful in normal content) than the full umbral build and for what one forma and an exilis slot.  

No I didn't but you do over and over again. So -AGAIN- more EHP =/= more powerful. The only thing that makes you feel that way is the fact that you use a low spec melee setup and it requires you that EHP to succeed despite how completely useless it is once you get out of your own loop and gameplay. More attack speed = more dps = stronger. Why do we always end up here ? Why do you insist despite admitting the short coming of your own setup ? Sorry but it doesn't make any sense to me.

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

I am not stating that a banshee cant do close range melee if built properly (this is not a health build) but I am stating that if a frame can take damage there is no reason why it should be built like Ivara (ie to never take damage).  even then you don't build Ivara for pure strength as she wants efficiency range and duration depending on the build and use case.  

Banshee is a very different and selective case and that doesn't really fix the absurdity of the thought. Building for more damage and limited survivability is the essence of frailer frames because they benefit that much out of it. If building for their own benefit exclude them from the "classic" melee loop there indeed is an issue with basic melee to begin with. But again that's something you can't really comprehend if you don't even understand why I don't need any survivability mod to go 12+ with a valkyr in eso.

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

what I am saying is that if you build for one stat exclusively you weaken the build as a whole.  by getting that 300 ish power strength total you reduced your EHP by more than half despite only increasing your total power by 25%.  my point was the built is very inefficient and does not improve anything for my use case you literally sent me a built that will not work for what I use Valk for.  

That is not what you said and that isn't what I said either. Strength makes valkyr stronger, some other frame will prefer duration, some other effiency, some other range, I am not even sure why you would use contextual stats to make a point... what I said is that there's a clear limit to how much ehp is needed when you play right. The build is perfectly efficient for your initial requirement, later on you said that it was to optimize focus farm which is an entirely different concept that is irrelevant to power creep. So yes, obviously, it will not work for what you are trying to do but it doesn't really change much to the conclusion. 

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You have yet to explain why Umbra should get more equipment, given his quest is already out, he is already out, his weapon is already yours. Are you really proposing handing more free weapons to players, with slots, for no real reason other than you want it?

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34 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You have yet to explain why Umbra should get more equipment, given his quest is already out, he is already out, his weapon is already yours. Are you really proposing handing more free weapons to players, with slots, for no real reason other than you want it?

First of all, never said it should be free. None of it is. You earn it.

Second of all, why NOT have more Umbra weapons?

Actually, now that I think on it, it’s an inevitability really. Just like it’s inevitable that there’s going to be more Umbra Warframes, and more Umbral Mods.

I just think it lacks a certain symmetry that he doesn’t have a signature sidearm. A sidearm and a melee weapon. Like his primed variant.

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Well he did come out with the nikana prime and spira prime in the Chinese version. And the Skiajati is basically a shadowy Nikana. So I could see him having his own throwing secondary. Almost a mixer between stalker’s despair and the Spira Prime. They could have a  hush effect. And possibly have a really fast reload speed. 

For a primary, I could somewhat see a umbra styled Paris. Have U like designes on it. A U on the front handle part. Maybe even the arrow tips have a U design for double piercing. So basically double the actual damage shown in the stats. Could even have like the fastest charge rate of all bows.

But that would also mean more umbral mods specifically for primaries and secondaries. Obviously sacrificial-like damage mods for both. Maybe critical chance as well. Or critical damage. 

Either way, I agree that Umbra feels incomplete without his own primary and/or secondary. 

Just my opinion anyways.

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15 hours ago, Shelusine said:

You said that you couldn't do a melee build without a full tank build on a valkyr, it has nothing to do with the offensiveness of melee, it's just that meme'ing builds are for the most part the only builds who don't require you an insane amount of ehp to perform. Hence, No, melee is not plently good without meme'ing "based on your feedback". 

the comment is based on ESO with host migrations and soloing after a full squad leaves (there are so many bugs that it is not really worth doing once that happens).  melee does not have trouble killing things the problem is that on large trials I will take significant damage while locked in animation for some melee attacks (tempo royal is the worst offender but twirling spire is not that much better).  

 

Edited by spirit_of_76
it was unfinished
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9 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Well he did come out with the nikana prime and spira prime in the Chinese version. And the Skiajati is basically a shadowy Nikana. So I could see him having his own throwing secondary. Almost a mixer between stalker’s despair and the Spira Prime. They could have a  hush effect. And possibly have a really fast reload speed. 

For a primary, I could somewhat see a umbra styled Paris. Have U like designes on it. A U on the front handle part. Maybe even the arrow tips have a U design for double piercing. So basically double the actual damage shown in the stats. Could even have like the fastest charge rate of all bows.

But that would also mean more umbral mods specifically for primaries and secondaries. Obviously sacrificial-like damage mods for both. Maybe critical chance as well. Or critical damage. 

Either way, I agree that Umbra feels incomplete without his own primary and/or secondary. 

Just my opinion anyways.

Not just your opinion clearly, glad I’m not the only one who senses the incompleteness of it. 😊

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I suspect they're planning something for Umbral stuff. Adding the Umbral Forma while talking about The New War and then adding the Paraceisis with damage to Sentients before it can't be coincidental. Hopefully new Umbral stuff won't drop fully-levelled, though. Why even IS that the case with the Excalibur Umbra and his weapons?

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