Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Why would they even make more considering Umbral forma exist? I know they've stated they could do a limited run of Umbra Frames but with Umbral Forma and Helminth.

What's the point? 

given devstream 58 and 125 its always been the plan to add more variants

umbras: different visuals, different powers geared to disable sentient adaption, innate umbra forma slots, umbra mods that could provide more for various builds of other frames, innate ai? ,possible new weapons

think about it on excal umbra you cant subsume him and his power to disabl sentient adapting, so with helmith this grants those type other options and variations to play with to improve sentient killing

initially they stated as such

"every frame will get a prime, not every frame will get an umbra" 

though they have not repeated that statement since bringing it up in dev 125 so possibly we might get same amount or close to main amount of primes 

side benifit is you can get an umbra variant possibly before a prime variant 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

UMBRAS 

(are more umbras in the works?) 
https://clips.twitch.tv/BombasticObservantLyrebirdKevinTurtle-eDbwnBDnrRK5VMDG

basically more umbras will come (eventually..) , but other things at this time take precedence , none are in the works right now 

[Xaero]

On 2021-02-25 at 2:33 AM, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Why would they even make more considering Umbral forma exist? I know they've stated they could do a limited run of Umbra Frames but with Umbral Forma and Helminth.

What's the point? 

Once we have a universal warframe sentience system, there will be no point in it at all.

For altered abilities we already have Helminth.

New looks could be achieved with alternative Umbral skins for Primes.

 

Actually, it’d be much better this way. Separate Umbral frame variants will inevitably damage Prime Access sales (what’s the point of getting a Prime when you can get Umbra? Just for collection? Not everyone is interested), but alternate Umbral skins can only boost them.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

UMBRAS 

(are more umbras in the works?) 
https://clips.twitch.tv/BombasticObservantLyrebirdKevinTurtle-eDbwnBDnrRK5VMDG

basically more umbras will come (eventually..) , but other things at this time take precedence , none are in the works right now 

I'd rather they focus on something else entirely. We don't need more. And from what Steve said on stream I feel the only way they will add more is if it makes sense. 

And with Umbra forma. It just doesn't. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

13 hours ago, Xaero said:

Once we have a universal warframe sentience system, there will be no point in it at all.

For altered abilities we already have Helminth.

New looks could be achieved with alternative Umbral skins for Primes.

 

Actually, it’d be much better this way. Separate Umbral frame variants will inevitably damage Prime Access sales (what’s the point of getting a Prime when you can get Umbra? Just for collection? Not everyone is interested), but alternate Umbral skins can only boost them.

 umbras have innate umbra polarities (less work to put them on it)  , the anti sentient powers as such, we also have no indication of the universal sentience as echos was trashed and might resurface at a later date in a new way. so till then they are the only ai sentience type . and the others could have altered stats to make the play style different still and could be an easier way to get a frame upgrade before a prime is released as there is no umbra frame release order ,and de has already stated the third type will come , umbra excal was just the 1st. so more will follow regardless , but take probably a while given de's focus

in terms of helmith its not really altered as its either the same or weaker then original power? and its not really needed on every frame 

dont see how it would damage when de can do umbral access sales ?

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

I'd rather they focus on something else entirely. We don't need more. And from what Steve said on stream I feel the only way they will add more is if it makes sense. 

And with Umbra forma. It just doesn't. 

i dont mind them changing their focus to better the system as it is not in a good way right now, and as for umbras to come it could easily be tied with the paradox system , which would be interesting

[Xaero]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

umbras have innate umbra polarities (less work to put them on it)

Yeah, and less reason to get a Prime with no Umbral polarities.

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

the anti sentient powers as such

TBH I stopped using Radial Howl against Sentients long ago. Xata's Whisper, which is a universal ability, is much better at this. 50 energy for a single resistance strip VS 35 seconds of constant resistance strip costing 25 energy (provided you have high enough status chance). There's also the Operator who quickly resets resistances at a cost of minor inconvenience.

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

we also have no indication of the universal sentience as echos was trashed and might resurface at a later date in a new way

Likely. And, as I said, once we get that, there will be no point in introducing separate upgraded completely free frame variants that make purchasable variants obsolete. Alternate skins would be enough.

20 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

and the others could have altered stats to make the play style different still

And since when do stats define the frame's playstyle? Abilities do that. Stats can only make the playstyle more convenient. Let's imagine Excal Umbra had larger shield pool at the cost of lower health and armor. Would it turn a melee-focused frame into a caster/nuker/support/whatever? No, it'd just make him a worse melee-focused frame.

28 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

could be an easier way to get a frame upgrade before a prime is released

What's even the point of waiting for an inferior variant after a superior one is released? Other than for collection.

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

de has already stated the third type will come , umbra excal was just the 1st. so more will follow regardless , but take probably a while given de's focus

Doesn't seem like they discuss this topic a lot. What will they come up with when the time comes? Who knows. But introducing a third frame type which is essentially a "better Prime" would be a bad decision. Even more so if not every frame gets one.

54 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

in terms of helmith its not really altered as its either the same or weaker then original power? and its not really needed on every frame

Exactly the opposite. Unlike an insignificant anti-Sentient utility, Helminth system can really make a difference, since you can choose a completely different ability that could synergize extremely well with your current playstyle or offer a different one. And it has already covered anti-Sentient utility.

57 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

dont see how it would damage when de can do umbral access sales ?

"Look, Tenno, you can buy a shiny upgraded Prime!"

"Oh wait, here's an even more shiny Super Prime! You can buy that too!"

Does it sound good? Better than alternate skins they sell all the time?

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Lets not forget that the Umbra line is considered a sidegrade to Primes, not a direct upgrade to them.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

Yeah, and less reason to get a Prime with no Umbral polarities.

kind of the reason alternatives exist, make a choice to work on a prime to be umbra forma or not and use a premade umbra . use a prime that ahs normal forma polarities for other build types 

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

TBH I stopped using Radial Howl against Sentients long ago. Xata's Whisper, which is a universal ability, is much better at this. 50 energy for a single resistance strip VS 35 seconds of constant resistance strip costing 25 energy (provided you have high enough status chance). There's also the Operator who quickly resets resistances at a cost of minor inconvenience.

 

operator and even the necramechs take time to get out and operators can be squishy if not ranked up and loaded with arcanes 

xatas whisper also requires you to sacrifice an ability (and a frame) , counter to it an umbra dosnt require an ability to be lost and enhances one. its not ground breaking but handy to have when needed , otherwise its just a normal radial blind with audio

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

Likely. And, as I said, once we get that, there will be no point in introducing separate upgraded completely free frame variants that make purchasable variants obsolete. Alternate skins would be enough.

think your forgetting primes are a separate upgrade to any frame and are free to be earned.  umbras are a parallel grade to a prime with different setup geared for sentient combat . so what your saying could be applied to primes, both primes and umbras are upgrades to an original base frame , niether makes the  other obolete its just a preference.

and de has already said that with excal umbra its not a skin, so likewise one can assume other umbras wouldnt be skins and would be separate frames themselves 

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

And since when do stats define the frame's playstyle? Abilities do that. Stats can only make the playstyle more convenient. Let's imagine Excal Umbra had larger shield pool at the cost of lower health and armor. Would it turn a melee-focused frame into a caster/nuker/support/whatever? No, it'd just make him a worse melee-focused frame.

armor, energy , shield, health pools  play into what style of play and mods you choose, like in any character building setup . 

you can go from a aoe to a single target frame or a nuker to a cc , many applications can be done, but meta players tend to stick with a easy to copy/use style 

personally with my excal umbra i tend to playa tankier role, as to my normal excal i use plays more as a very mobile frame. i setup my umbra to be tankier as thats the style i wanted to be survivable and tanky with damage. its helped me pick up squad members and play as support 

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

 

What's even the point of waiting for an inferior variant after a superior one is released? Other than for collection.

 

we can say the same thing literally about normal vs primes 

its all about the release order

normal then a prime years later, given an umbra can come out and be parallel to a prime stands to reason de could capitalize on that route, and then when a prime drops , prime weapons , armor, cosmetics are in those bundles. even prime mods can be made . people do like flavor of the month stuff and new and shiny always gets people interested in playing again, same thing happens with primes 

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

 

Doesn't seem like they discuss this topic a lot. What will they come up with when the time comes? Who knows. But introducing a third frame type which is essentially a "better Prime" would be a bad decision. Even more so if not every frame gets one.

 

literally we have a working example  excalibur prime and excalibur umbra, and excalibur (vanilla)

the prime has deathorb passive and no ai , and forma polarities iirc innate, umbra has umbra polarities and ai (which is a double edged sword) and the howl which can be used on sentient , as youve said prime can be made to be same level as an umbra and vice versa , but they are preferences and allows a choice in that frame type, dosnt force you to choose if other frames have the same type offering. each one has something they are good at , either play style works as long as you put an effort into it. its not like you dont have to forma umbra and his sword a few times to make it work right, and the polarities can be a double edged as maybe you dont want to use all three , using set mods is a risk vs reward style , you can build without them. what umbras have innate  dosnt make them the greatest of the three types , simply a different one, assuming they are innately better dosnt make sense, given the ai is a double edge in combat thay can take damage (also are horrid ai ..) the mod slots and the sentient debuf help but you can do that with a normal forma , i dont even use umbra forma to throw the mods on frames on builds so i dont see this focus on how that makes it super important as even primes have innate polarities, that in many ways makes them handy and easy to build setups on. i dont get were you get the "better prime" mentality  

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

 

Exactly the opposite. Unlike an insignificant anti-Sentient utility, Helminth system can really make a difference, since you can choose a completely different ability that could synergize extremely well with your current playstyle or offer a different one. And it has already covered anti-Sentient utility.

 

in truth we know that system is locked to be further in the game and requires time /effort to get along with a lot of resources , so not everyone is up to that state of play. given you can make sets more effective or less is dependent like anything on the user, its also not a requirement to make a frame work or play the game , but its a nice thing to have and play with. sentients are not the only enemy type and umbras being geared to help against the one that we off on play against dosnt make it the greatest or most needed skill , but again its nice to have when you do need it, but there are weapons with the same ability also that any frame can use and dosnt requires removing a power. this is again back to loadout and frame setup, players can have options and that is a core component in the game, letting the players pick and choose and setup however they want in various ways and combinations, umbras are just another choice. 

4 hours ago, Xaero said:

"Look, Tenno, you can buy a shiny upgraded Prime!"

"Oh wait, here's an even more shiny Super Prime! You can buy that too!"

Does it sound good? Better than alternate skins they sell all the time?

 you keep throwing this cocnept that umbras as the pinnacle of frames, when they are sidegrades ?

is like  skijiati makes me cloak , but is weaker then nikana prime, they are still both nikanas and one is weaker but with a gimmick power and uses umbra mods. is it useful , yes, but is it required ...no. nikana prime in dps can win out still, heck dragon nikana can be fun and useful if modded right

and no one forces anyone to buy anything thats up to you and your wallet/impulse control  

Honestly ,  i dont see why you have this mentality, that umbras make primes pointless, there are plenty of reasons to use a prime or an umbra. primes are especially usefull in the void , umbras are at a disadvantage to them there..

its like so what if an umbra frame of a warframe comes out, what happens when a new prime comes out? you get it mod it and either keep it mr fodder it or leave it in arsenal , plenty do this cycle as its something new and something to do, also toss the vanilla frame or leave it to collect dust or use it in helmith. you as a player and any other have choices, you can choose to  get an umbra or a prime, depends on your need or what you want to do setup wise .

cant change your mind , but hope you can understand some of what im trying to explain 

[(NSW)HydroBlade]

So just recently I was browsing around some warframe videos until I saw one made by "grind hard squad" about potential umbra warframes.

At first I thought they were thinking about trying to get umbra variants as a thing. That was until, I learned that more umbra warframes are going to be worked on by the team(not any time soon though).

The video I watched said that warframes which has a memory associated with them and a questline could potentially work(based on how they brought Umbra excalibur)

So I think an umbra chroma will be nice for two reasons:
reason: 1. it goes into the lore of chroma (because after all he just kinda, pops up in the new strange quest and you scan him into oblivion) where as other quest warframes at least has a small tidbit of lore to go along with it. 

"This is Chroma, an ancient legend, master of the elements.

When all the land is in ruins, Tenno, only Chroma will remain."

this text right here^^^ can also be interesting if we are going to discuss the backstory of chroma. Who is chroma, and how did he end up in the infestation faction?
was he a soldier? a scientist/chemist? how exactly did chroma survive so long, and what are the origins of his outer pelt which can seemingly adapt and even come to life? how will he be the last one standing? 

reason: 2. I just like chroma, I do main him whenever possible (I'm probably going to make a thread on putting chroma back onto the table because of recent nerfs(not even op, just probably more useable or enjoyable))

who do you think DE is going to add as an umbra variant?

Edited March 1, 2021 by (NSW)HydroBlade
minor revisions

[16Bitman]

Stream/Video link if you're too lazy to search for it yourself

https://youtu.be/7NkbOXyF7ww?t=1997

[vanaukas]

My 2 cents

More umbra frames? No

Echoes of Umbra 2.0 + Umbral skins? Yes

I really don't want more frame variants, too much clutter

[ReddyDisco]

i hope this umbrafication is akin to adding more depth to a frame, character.

i'm a sucker for lore and titties, lets focus on lore for now  

[(NSW)HydroBlade]

1 minute ago, vanaukas said:

My 2 cents

More umbra frames? No

Echoes of Umbra 2.0 + Umbral skins? Yes

I really don't want more frame variants, too much clutter

yeah i can see that as a good point
since uh, umbras are just better primes
which can kill the whole relic thing, but i love that umbra skin idea!

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

when multiple umbra warframes were brought originally was in devstream 58 , with stating excalibur is just the 1st and will be obtained in a specific way (to handle details chinaframe) and more umbras were to follow . always been the plan, though how de wants to implement and make them accessible is still up in the air 

they did initially state the umbra line would be more limited than the primes, while every frames geta  prime, not all get an umbra. so we dont know the exact amounts  

in 125 it was brought up again and now 152 , im personally ok with the team trying to do qol and reworking the current problems 

there is also a umbra megathread if you ever want to check out some of the stuff , always open to discussions and talks 

personally id like an ember umrba or a volt umbra 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Honestly if we ever did get more umbra frames it be mag and volt to reflect the starting picks

[(NSW)HydroBlade]

oh nice, I'll check it out sometime!(the megathread)

Edited March 1, 2021 by (NSW)HydroBlade

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

My 2 cents

More umbra frames? No

Echoes of Umbra 2.0 + Umbral skins? Yes

I really don't want more frame variants, too much clutter

 

1 minute ago, (NSW)HydroBlade said:

yeah i can see that as a good point
since uh, umbras are just better primes
which can kill the whole relic thing, but i love that umbra skin idea!

honestly i dont understand this UMBRA> PRIME mentality ive been reading recently 

 they are side grades and parallels to the primes , both have advantages and disadvantages for various reasons 

 

[PublikDomain]

10 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

My 2 cents

More umbra frames? No

Echoes of Umbra 2.0 + Umbral skins? Yes

I really don't want more frame variants, too much clutter

Make em an upgrade through Helminth. You can feed regular frames to Helminth, but not Primes. So what should Helminth do with Primes? Wake them up! Do your short frame quest to tame your frame (which could be an easy tie-in to the Leverian entries that a lot of people want playable) and then you get an awakened Umbral Warframe. Your frame has a new skin/helmet, the combat AI (which can be suppressed in your loadout if you don't want it), and a named Umbral weapon like Skiajati. ETA: And I guess an anti-Sentient buff to an ability. DE can release them a few at a time like they do with Prime Access.

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

honestly i dont understand this UMBRA> PRIME mentality ive been reading recently 

But they are upgrades? Umbra has the same bonus stats as Excalibur Prime compared to the base Excalibur, but Umbra also has the combat mechanic and his howl. He's a direct upgrade to his Prime, just in mechanics and not stats.

Edited March 1, 2021 by PublikDomain

[Berzerkules]

Just now, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Honestly if we ever did get more umbra frames it be mag and volt to reflect the starting picks

I always thought this was the logical choice if we ever get other Umbra frames. 

I'd be down with a Volt Umbra but idk what I'd do with 3 umbra polarities on a Mag. Probably end up forma over at least 2 and just use if for the skin I guess. 

[(NSW)HydroBlade]

 

"honestly i dont understand this UMBRA> PRIME mentality ive been reading recently 

 they are side grades and parallels to the primes , both have advantages and disadvantages for various reasons "

 

considering that they have higher stats then the original(basic warframes) and most likely umbral polarities on for free, and an improved skill(based on radial blind changing to radial howl), and the sentience passive or something similar
it kinda does give more than a prime can, and considering its a quest. you wont have to go farming for relics
but thats what I thought, I assume they are going to add some balancing mechanic for this 

Edited March 1, 2021 by (NSW)HydroBlade

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Just now, Berzerkules said:

I always thought this was the logical choice if we ever get other Umbra frames. 

I'd be down with a Volt Umbra but idk what I'd do with 3 umbra polarities on a Mag. Probably end up forma over at least 2 and just use if for the skin I guess. 

Mag is good with umbra mods, single target damage with magnetize is insane and the armor strip off polarize is noticeable in steel path

[(NSW)HydroBlade]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Make em an upgrade through Helminth. You can feed regular frames to Helminth, but not Primes. So what should Helminth do with Primes? Wake them up! Do your short frame quest to tame your frame (which could be an easy tie-in to the Leverian entries that a lot of people want playable) and then you get an awakened Umbral Warframe. Your frame has a new skin/helmet, the combat AI (which can be suppressed in your loadout if you don't want it), and a named Umbral weapon like Skiajati. DE can release them a few at a time like they do with Prime Access.

I love this idea too, it would be a great way to balance the umbra frames, and it can be a great way to tie in some quests and lore.

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

honestly i dont understand this UMBRA> PRIME mentality ive been reading recently 

 they are side grades and parallels to the primes , both have advantages and disadvantages for various reasons 

Dunno why you quoted me for that, because I didn't hinted or said anything about it. I think 3 variants for the same frame will be too much clutter, even if it's for a few of them. Umbra and Prime have literally the same stats, the only difference is the passive and the ability to trigger energy from orbs in the void.

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Make em an upgrade through Helminth. You can feed regular frames to Helminth, but not Primes. So what should Helminth do with Primes? Wake them up! Do your short frame quest to tame your frame (which could be an easy tie-in to the Leverian entries that a lot of people want playable) and then you get an awakened Umbral Warframe. Your frame has a new skin/helmet, the combat AI (which can be suppressed in your loadout if you don't want it), and a named Umbral weapon like Skiajati. DE can release them a few at a time like they do with Prime Access.

That was kinda the idea with the Echoes of Umbra before the Helminth system, without the quest at least. I'm all for your idea tho, but I really want to avoid the clutter mess that some weapons have with multiple variants, this fits perfectly for that.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Mag is good with umbra mods, single target damage with magnetize is insane and the armor strip off polarize is noticeable in steel path

Umbra Vitality and Fiber would seem to be a waste though. She can regen shields/over shields and we have shield gating now. It wouldn't be worth it to run full Umbral set for +22% strength when you could get more strength from a single mod. IDK, depends on if you normally run health mod on her I guess. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

 

1 minute ago, vanaukas said:

Dunno why you quoted me for that, because I didn't hinted or said anything about it. I think 3 variants for the same frame will be too much clutter, even if it's for a few of them. Umbra and Prime have literally the same stats, the only difference is the passive and the ability to trigger energy from orbs in the void.

That was kinda the idea with the Echoes of Umbra before the Helminth system, without the quest at least. I'm all for your idea tho, but I really want to avoid the clutter mess that some weapons have with multiple variants, this fits perfectly for that.

sorry must have hit quote , my bad

3 minutes ago, (NSW)HydroBlade said:

 

"honestly i dont understand this UMBRA> PRIME mentality ive been reading recently 

 they are side grades and parallels to the primes , both have advantages and disadvantages for various reasons "

 

considering that they have higher stats then the original(basic warframes) and most likely umbral polarities on for free, and and improved skill, and the sentience passive or something similar
it kinda does give more than a prime can, and considering its a quest. you wont have to go farming for relics
but thats what I thought, I assume they are going to add some balancing mechanic for this 

6 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

 

But they are upgrades? Umbra has the same bonus stats as Excalibur Prime compared to the base Excalibur, but Umbra also has the combat mechanic and his howl. He's a direct upgrade to his Prime, just in mechanics and not stats.

Umbras are and will be always a side grade to primes

primes and umbras stats are identical, and both have a power 

Prime deathorb is useful in void and Umbra anti sentient power is useful against sentient, its situational in when and were these are handy 

umrbas combat ai is double edged as it can take damage when you return to operator and isnt the best AI ...

while a prime and normal frames take no damage while in operator form 

umbras have innate umbra polarities making them easy to mod for those sets, but likewise primes have polarities innate also to make them easier

so they are different but that dosnt mean either one is better 

exaclibur umbras quest obtainment is a special case and had to deal with the whole star armor(china frame) getting a founder frame like excal prime, the deployment of excalibur umbra to global was to grant everyone a exaclibur upgrade from vanilla that anyone could get, and further de stated then that they had plans for more of this frame type 

the team have prior stated they probably wont do anything quest like for the other umbras 

which would mean umbra obtainment would be probably like primes in relics or earning them and building them. 

umrbas are simply the dark to the primes light