Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[-Krism-]

So I saw the video about Umbras from Mogamu:

Spoiler

 

I really liked the first theory so I will post it here if some of you didn't saw it already.

So basically, we hear Ballas saying about Umbras "for their life, yours" and "all miracles require sacrifice", It could explain three things about the Stalker:

First: Why in the Second Dream, when he is attacking our Operator while our warframe was impaled with War, we can hear Unhow "But you're asking yourself... Was I one of these wretched things?"

English is not my first language but "was" means "from the past" right? So the Operator of the Stalker is, probably not dead, but in some sort of stasis or something like that, like what we can hear in the "Sacrifice" trailer with the life support bips/beeps.

Second: How he gained so much power, I don't mean the Sentients powers, but the regular ones, I mean seriously, Slash Dash from Excal, Teleport from Ash, Absorb from Nyx, Pull from Mag, Smoke Screen from Ash again, Reckoning from Oberon, and Dispel from..., himself..., anyway, you get the point. So basically he sacrificed his Operator for more power, but that leads us to the third point.

Third: Why the Stalker wants to kill us so badly. Like I said he gained much more power for the cost of his Operator's life force or some bullsh*t like that. But remember, "For their life... yours", he sacrificed his Operator for power but still needs to kill others to, idk, not completely die? Maybe?

 

So, what do you guys think about this? I'm not a great theorist so I'd really like to hear what you guys have to say.

[OGPlebian]

16 hours ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

I think that for Umbra Warframes, usage of the Operator will be lost; but in turn, because the Umbra Warfarmes might have different abilities than their Prime/Normal variants, those Operator skills that we lost will be integrated into the Warframe. 

Basically, I think Umbra will not be an Operator using a Warframe, but one entity with abilities similar to both.

I don't know if that's how it's going to be

 

I think Umbras are going to be Dax soldiers that have been infected with technocyte a-la Hayden Tenno in Dark Sector, and they are proto-Warframes

[Dawn11715]

"all miracles require Sacrifice. For their live yours" For me this sounds like the opposite of what the video says: The Warframes mind got sacrificed to allow the Tenno to live within him (thereby saving the tennos live as it gave them purpose in the eyes of the orokin and spared them from execution). So the Sacrifice could just be a reference to the Warframes origin story. Of cause this doesnt exclude an actual sacrifice happening within the quest, and something like a simple Warframe would be to insignificant as you could just build a new one, Maybe the thing that gets sacrificed is the control over the warframe, (lorewise, not during actual gameplay) which could manifest in the Warframe acting on its own if its not possessed. This would add up pretty well with how steve described the way we are supposed to fight Eidolons, as a tag team match. Another thing that could be sacrificed is the innocence of the Zariman Children. Remembering more about their past could accelerate character development and help turning them into the Warriors they are supposed to become. If they really where to take away the operator completely, Umbras would need to have something special themselfs to make up for it (hopefully they can transform into grotesque monsters by fueling the infestation within them... ok, thats just what id like to see^^)

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[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

1. Stalker is filled with Kuva, since he was there the day the Orokin were slaughtered. Also, since he calls himself a lesser guardian, odds are he may also be a Dax like Teshin or something slightly better but his mind is completely shot.
2. That doesn't make any sense? Our Warframes get their powers from their Operators, without Operators Warframes don't even work. Stalker is most likely something more than a regular Warframe.
3. See 1

[Dawn11715]

Something I forgot tho mention: Just listen to how sad Ballas says the word "yours" it was definitely, at some point at least, the Umbras live that got sacrificed 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

4 minutes ago, Dawn11715 said:

The Warframes mind got sacrificed to allow the Tenno to live within him (thereby saving the tennos live as it gave them purpose in the eyes of the orokin and spared them from execution)

Warframes were made without a mind actually, Margulis is the one who proposed the frames as a way for the kids to live since the Orokin were just going to kill them. It was the other Orokin who decided to weaponize the Tenno once they had Margulis executed

[Dawn11715]

Just now, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

1. That doesn't make any sense? Our Warframes get their powers from their Operators, without Operators Warframes don't even work. Stalker is most likely something more

It does makes sense if we are talking about sacrificing the tennos human body, rell was able to permanently store his soul and power inside of harrow.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

1 minute ago, Dawn11715 said:

It does makes sense if we are talking about sacrificing the tennos human body, rell was able to permanently store his soul and power inside of harrow.

Pretty sure he didn't do that on purpose though considering he was autistic, suffering, and not properly trained to use Transference

[Dawn11715]

1 minute ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Warframes were made without a mind actually, Margulis is the one who proposed the frames as a way for the kids to live since the Orokin were just going to kill them. It was the other Orokin who decided to weaponize the Tenno once they had Margulis executed

In the Valkyr prime trailer, Ballas said that the Warframes are "tenno tamed" so there is something that requires taming, they arent just puppets they are living things that posses some sort of intelligence that requires supression to not act on its own.

[Dawn11715]

Just now, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Pretty sure he didn't do that on purpose though considering he was autistic, suffering, and not properly trained to use Transference

but it shows that its possible.

[-Krism-]

2 minutes ago, Dawn11715 said:

It does makes sense if we are talking about sacrificing the tennos human body, rell was able to permanently store his soul and power inside of harrow.

Yup, and the result was? Rell could  corrupt minds around him, he was not taking any damage during the quest, and was doing a hell lot of damage, and still, Rell was autistic, imagine what could happen with a perfectly "normal" Tenno that didn't had any desease.

[Dawn11715]

3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Yup, and the result was? Rell could  corrupt minds around him, he was not taking any damage during the quest, and was doing a hell lot of damage, and still, Rell was autistic, imagine what could happen with a perfectly "normal" Tenno that didn't had any desease.

Im gonna do a bit of the stretch now:

In ecaliburs codex entry it stands that they build a frame around the twisted, that returned from the void, so maybe thats what warframes are: people that got corrupted, infested, experimented on and turned into weapons that could make the tennos power usable. And there obviously are Warframes that are not build by the orokin, so what if these where people too? The stalker was a low guardian, and when he tried to warn the ones he was supposed to protect, only a low whisper escaped his lungs.

What if he was captured and turned into a warframe. What his mind and anger somehow survived, powerfull enough to resist the tenno that tried to control him. Then somehow the tennos soul and its power got stuck within the Stalker...

[-Krism-]

5 minutes ago, Dawn11715 said:

Im gonna do a bit of the stretch now:

In ecaliburs codex entry it stands that they build a frame around the twisted, that returned from the void, so maybe thats what warframes are: people that got corrupted, infested, experimented on and turned into weapons that could make the tennos power usable. And there obviously are Warframes that are not build by the orokin, so what if these where people too? The stalker was a low guardian, and when he tried to warn the ones he was supposed to protect, only a low whisper escaped his lungs.

What if he was captured and turned into a warframe. What his mind and anger somehow survived, powerfull enough to resist the tenno that tried to control him. Then somehow the tennos soul and its power got stuck within the Stalker...

Was it not infesteds? After being attacked by the Sentients they created the Technocyte Virus that truned against them, and after some time they discovered what the infected peoples had become and made something out of them, they named it, a Warframe.

[Dawn11715]

4 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Was it not infesteds? After being attacked by the Sentients they created the Technocyte Virus that truned against them, and after some time they discovered what the infected peoples had become and made something out of them, they named it, a Warframe.

Sort of, the orokin did some really hateworthy stuff. I wouldnt be surprised if the warframes or Umbras (possibly just warframes without a tenno) killed them. 

The Tenno dont really seam the kind to do that.

[(PSN)horridhal]

Ignore this.

Edited July 13, 2017 by (PS4)horridhal

[-Krism-]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Ignore this.

? What did you said? Everything is good to know at this point.

[LordOfScrugging]

18 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

There are plenty of swords in games that create energy waves when you swing them. Destiny has apparently introduced it as well.

The waves are the only thing people use Exalted Blade for. Why on earth would anyone want to take them away? They've been nerfed already. Taking the waves away would only result in people just using their normal melee weapons which are already much more powerful with the Blood Rush and Body Count combo, thereby making Exalted Blade obsolete.

People need to stop asking for nerfs to perfectly adequate abilities. 

Exalted blade would still be stronger. It pulls off of power strength and and the melee mods. blood rush and body count aren't necessary for exalted weapons due to the strength they get from pulling from 2 sources of mods. I never said it should be removed, but it's default mode shouldn't be "fluctus-on-a-stick"

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

7 hours ago, Eminem37 said:

Besides I would love to fight a warframe as boss to get its parts like I mentioned before your post.

I always loved to fight Stalker to get his stuff.

Just imagine, you going on a Lua tile and there an open arena on the end and the umbra version of the warframe you are trying to get is there on the middle, just like Devil May Cry when you fight your brother on a circular arena, but in a knee position, an awesome dark music starts and the umbra gets up ready to fight.

Oh dear... I lost there for a few moments.

4 hours ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Yeah I know, was writting in response to your post, should probably have quoted.And yeah good example with DMC.

Yes.. yes..

welp, sorry the lack of details on the models, I kind lost patience half way and wanted to finish it fast since I'm not gonna to sell or anything lol, could had been better. Anyway.

Let's farm it lol.

[(XBOX)KryptonPrimus]

OOOO that's actually sensible. I like it!

[(XBOX)KryptonPrimus]

17 hours ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

 

I've said it before and I will mention it again. I think the Warframe itself will be the protagonist of the next big quest. Something happens to the Operator and our Warframe somehow is moving on it's own, it wants to save the Operator, even if it means sacrifice and possibly disobey the Lotus.

 

^^^ that would make sense

[Golmihr]

It's my impression that before the infestation got transformed into the infestation we know (as a desperate measure at the end of the war) it was an Orokin tool used to create biological technology. (Even the new open world trailer shows old Orokin tech being torn open and flesh being cut out.) The warframes are made by using an earlier uncorrupted variation (Which is why they are mostly immune to the infestation). Probably the Sentients too before they broke free and turned against the Orokins. It can probably create sentient life.

So I think it's a possibility that the Stalker could be a living warframe. (Edit: That would also mean he got more in common with the Sentients than what is obvious at first glance. He can enter the void but the inability to not go there was specifically designed into the Sentients, as we know from the lore)

Edited July 13, 2017 by Golmihr

[ExcalPrimeWhen]

personally a lot of this speculation doesn't add up. The "twisted" in the Excalibur flavour text I always thought that the "Twisted" were the Tenno, our operators. Which makes sense when you find out about Margulis, her work, and the orokin wanting to kill the Tenno "freaks". That being said in the Valkyr flavour text, it is hinted that the warframes are conscious. The Valkyr flavour text says that Alad V tortured her, but the wording is in the living sense (Like how you torture a terrorist) not in the object use and abuse sense (like I tortured my car by driving 20k KM without an oil change and drive it until the wheels fall off). The Valkyr prime trailer also says that warframe are "tenno tamed", which also implies consciousness as there is no need to tame a puppet. We know that the Warframes are made from infested flesh and steel. As with Lephantis calling us "of the same flesh" and i think it legit states in some of the lore "made of flesh and steel"  (but i can't remember where). So it IS established that the warframe are alive. At least in the sense that they have living biological components working to sustain the functionality so Warframes being conscious isn't a big step imo. The Tenno Con reveal also had them talking about tag team stuff, which COULD imply a warframe moving of its own accord, but it could also be that the Operator is overcharging the warframe and giving it a pre programmed command as it jumps out and the warframe is just following the latent command, using the excess energy left behind to do so. So the PoE reveal gives no real headway into either side of the consciousness debate. My personal theory is that warframe ARE in fact conscious self aware beings, but their consciousness is suppressed from day 1 turning them into little more than meat puppets. Where as the Umbra are a warframe that was abandoned, or forgotten or had it's operator killed/disconnected and became "lost". Which allowed their conciousness to surface, giving them their self awareness back. As they trapes through their new found life, they grow, evolve, and become "umbra". The other side to that is that Umbra warframes are twisted by the void. Kinda like how the Tenno are orokin children twisted by the void.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

4 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Warframes were made without a mind actually, Margulis is the one who proposed the frames as a way for the kids to live since the Orokin were just going to kill them. It was the other Orokin who decided to weaponize the Tenno once they had Margulis executed

A strong assumption, your surrogate theory, but not canon...yet.

[LYoshiiro]

*SPOILERS* (War Within & Second Dream)

First of all, the name for the quest is what i think it would be, thought likely it wont be. I just took it off the trailer for Umbra.

Well, with that done. I will get to the main point of the thread.

I'm here to tell you guys why i think Teshin will die in the upcoming quest for Umbra. I will first start off why its Teshin and later on explain why it cant be the operator and the Lotus.

In the trailer for Umbra, a nikana was shown, and who else uses the nikana in game other than us? That would be Teshin. In the trailer, the lines: "If you could trade, would you? Surely, but all miracle requires sacrifice. For their lives, your." was said, and in this case, who have made a sacrifice for the tenno till now? of the 3 NPC that did, they are Margulis, Natah and Teshin. Of which, Margulis is dead, though she will be in the quest line speculation below later. Killing off Natah would make no sense since she is the guide for objectives during missions. Teshin however has always only been seen during lore quest lines.

In the war within, Teshin made a sacrifice and broke the vow of his clan's (the dex clan), the vow to obey the ruler the scepter. And it was his honor that he sacrificed to safe the tenno many years ago. Had you not kill the queen during the war within, Teshin would have died from treason.

As for why the operator isn't a valid sacrifice is because it would make no sense to for DE to create more content for the operator if we had to sacrifice the tenno's life.

Personally my opinions on why sacrificing our normal Excalibur for the Umbra version is a good yet bad idea... Here's why:

It would make it more sense for people to do Hades now, making it easier for people who didn't choose Excalibur at the start to get it much easier. However, that would mean that Umbra wouldn't be a frame accessible out right to everyone unless you plat for it. Also, it would mean that pluto would become a taxi farm for a lot of people due to the requirement of needing 40 Animo points.

Moving on. Here is my speculation towards the quest line for Umbra. From the trailer, it show a area closely resembling the mountain caves back in War Within. Right off the bat, we are shown of a crashed miniature Cephalon Ship. That gives me the idea that the upcoming quest line would be telling us off what came before the second dream, how we met Teshin and how he saved us. and into the future while during a mission running with teshin, we are ambushed and teshin sacrifice his life for ours.

The sound of a heart monitor beeping and the sound of breathing through a air supplier mask also help to reinforce my point of crashing into mountain and re-awaking from mini cephalon's cryopod.

There is also the possiblity of sacrifice being somebody both you and Teshin came to know many years ago, but for the two of you to escape, they probably sacrificed their lives for the both of you.

For Magulis wise, probably during the flashback, if possible we see Ballas and Margulis and also her death. Please DE please make a cinematic for the interaction between the two of them that we heard during the second dream on Lua.

And that is my speculations for the Umbra's Quest: "The Sacrifice". Feel free to post your opinions below or correct anything i may have gotten wrong. This is just speculations. Post your own speculations below too.

 

~Yoshiiro

[Xaero]

If it's Teshin, who's gonna run conclave?