Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[TheGodofWiFi]

27 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Fair enough, though, I'd even debate "self-awareness" I'd suggest that the beast shows nothing other than bestial instinct up until it was in close proximity to the Zariman children

But before that the codex says that the creature recognised the scientist and remembered what he had done to both it and it's "brothers" and got angry about it. That was an example of self-awareness.

[SilentMobius]

14 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

But before that the codex says that the creature recognised the scientist and remembered what he had done to both it and it's "brothers" and got angry about it. That was an example of self-awareness.

Re-read it, it explicitly avoids saying that the creature actively recognizes him in any self-aware capacity:

Quote

It is watching me with vague eyes, a sense of recognition, ancestral memory. It knows who I am and what I've done.

You don't add in all that flowery language for no reason, the point there is to illustrate that "even though it can't possible really recognise me like people do, somehow it knew"

Also remember that this is snap opinion of a scientist about to die who is obviously feeling guilt over the work he's done.

Edited July 13, 2017 by SilentMobius

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

16 hours ago, Dawn11715 said:

In the Valkyr prime trailer, Ballas said that the Warframes are "tenno tamed" so there is something that requires taming, they arent just puppets they are living things that posses some sort of intelligence that requires supression to not act on its own.

Yeah, look at the Rhino Prime codex entry. They could lose control and go on rampages if not made properly, although that one was probably a prototype.

 

16 hours ago, Dawn11715 said:

but it shows that its possible.

Yes but why would anyone want that?

 

16 hours ago, Dawn11715 said:

Im gonna do a bit of the stretch now:

In ecaliburs codex entry it stands that they build a frame around the twisted, that returned from the void, so maybe thats what warframes are: people that got corrupted, infested, experimented on and turned into weapons that could make the tennos power usable. And there obviously are Warframes that are not build by the orokin, so what if these where people too? The stalker was a low guardian, and when he tried to warn the ones he was supposed to protect, only a low whisper escaped his lungs.

What if he was captured and turned into a warframe. What his mind and anger somehow survived, powerfull enough to resist the tenno that tried to control him. Then somehow the tennos soul and its power got stuck within the Stalker...

No, that's just DE being DE and making vague lore. The "twisted" are the Tenno they are referring to, and they did build the Warframes around them as conduits, not actually physically but as devices to channel their minds through. Because the Void powers could and would go out of control so the Tenno had to be trained.

 

16 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Was it not infesteds? After being attacked by the Sentients they created the Technocyte Virus that truned against them, and after some time they discovered what the infected peoples had become and made something out of them, they named it, a Warframe.

See the reply under this one v

13 hours ago, Golmihr said:

It's my impression that before the infestation got transformed into the infestation we know (as a desperate measure at the end of the war) it was an Orokin tool used to create biological technology. (Even the new open world trailer shows old Orokin tech being torn open and flesh being cut out.) The warframes are made by using an earlier uncorrupted variation (Which is why they are mostly immune to the infestation). Probably the Sentients too before they broke free and turned against the Orokins. It can probably create sentient life.

So I think it's a possibility that the Stalker could be a living warframe. (Edit: That would also mean he got more in common with the Sentients than what is obvious at first glance. He can enter the void but the inability to not go there was specifically designed into the Sentients, as we know from the lore)

My theory is that because Stalker was there the day the Orokin got slaughtered, he got splashed with tons of Kuva and that he's now filled with the stuff and that's what's puppeting him around, why he hesitates in the Second Dream finale.

And as far as the Infestation goes, the Orokin probably used different strains for everything. Then, when the Sentients did return pissed and attacked, they broke some sort of holding facility and some of the Infestation in its raw state got out and began to infect and turn people, which led to the Great Plague they refer to in the Mire codex entry, which technically makes the Mire the first natural Infested weapon.

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

A strong assumption, your surrogate theory, but not canon...yet.

Actually it is pretty canon, and all these alternatives people come up with are dumb tbh. I seriously don't see what's wrong with Warframes being mindless puppets that we control as all powerful gods. I don't get why people don't like that, it's way more unique than a lot of other video game plots

Edited July 13, 2017 by 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4

[Corial]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

drifting contact does good also as it buffs status i like that normally, combined with condition and primed pressure its a lot of fun with element combos 

And using DC with Surging Dash

[Crashen]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Kind of a shot in the dark here, but maybe it has something to do with Cephalons, like Ordis, who can live forever as an A.I? They did sacrifice their humanity to become enslaved to the Operator, so maybe the Umbra line of Warframes fit in there somewhere.

THAT is an interesting idea. What if the Umbra frames are piloted by cephalons who used to be tenno? They are closer to their frames because they have no physical body (like Rell/Harrow/Rerrow) but could still switch frames because their consciousness is housed seperately (in the ship, or wherever Cephalons go when not appearing before you). It would let people sidestep the whole "I am an angsty space teen" jazz. I know, not gonna happen, but a nice thought.

 

Unrelated, I seriously, seriously doubt the warframes are actual people twisted into the frames. Maybe the first, original frames were. The ones that predate primes and mass production. Otherwise it means our orbiter houses masses of human beings frozen on ice. 

No, I think Warframes are living, semi-conscious entities grown and built with infested material tamed by Helminth. I think a Warframe and a Specter are a hell of a lot closer than people think. Specters, in my opinion, are like grineer clones of warframes. Crude, simplified, short lived, but still alive and made of the same stuff. Specters have limited intelligence, since they take cover, advance or retreat, sometimes use basic powers, cam follow basic orders and are actually pretty accurate with weapons.

Then you have the Guardian specters. They speak, have full use of their abilities, and have been active (presumably) since the Collapse, guarding the Solar Rails. They seem to be fully functioning warframes without operators. 

I think, and I could be entirely wrong here, that Umbra, Stalker, Misery, Angst and the whole gang are Specters. They are the low Guardians, limited shadows of the more powerful, more prized tenno-guided Warframes. While the Warframes were out on the offense, fighting battles, taking out high priority targets and getting all the glory, their lesser shadows were consigned to guarding the solar rails and other places of interest.

When the tenno fought back the Sentients and were honored by their masters, the specters were overlooked, lost in the shadow of their betters, and remained at their posts. When the Tenno were swayed by the Lotus and slaughtered the Orokin, the specter guardians stayed loyal, and remained at their posts. When the liberated Tenno spread across the system to fight back the infestation, the specters remained at their posts. When the lotus called back the tenno, put them to sleep and pushed Lua into the void, the specters stayed awake and remained at their posts. 

And while the Tenno slept, and the System spiraled into further chaos... some of the specters abandoned their posts.

I find the Specters fascinating, and have the potential to be so much more than just game mechanics.

[Dawn11715]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Yeah, look at the Rhino Prime codex entry. They could lose control and go on rampages if not made properly, although that one was probably a prototype.

[...]

Actually it is pretty canon, and all these alternatives people come up with are dumb tbh. I seriously don't see what's wrong with Warframes being mindless puppets that we control as all powerful gods. I don't get why people don't like that, it's way more unique than a lot of other video game plots

The frames are indeed build to work  as surrogates and do work like that to some extend. I think what many people dont like about this, is that they really grew close to their warframes over time and dont want them to be mere puppets. They were used to being these powerful warriors and simply didnt want this to be a lie.

Also, as mentioned before warframes having a mind of their own is hinted to the point that its almost 100% a thing. (Ballas, Rhino prime codex, Breaking War, Umbra) You can also see it on the fact that they all have their own idle animations: even while they are controlled all the reflexes and subconscious acting  comes from the warframe, not the operator. If this weren't the case, our Operators would move a lot more like the warframes do, but they dont seem to posses any extended knowledge about martial arts, or acrobatic skills.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Conjecture: 

  this will a break down the trailer and some context that  i found interesting, to give some links and /or some thoughts on the content thus far 

Moon scene:

Spoiler

lua is the first scene we see in the trailer

in the scene we see rocks falling and some parts of the orokin structure fall, this could be linked possibly to Excalibur's mythology , via Arthurian legend , linking the fall of the orokin [that has already happened] in parallel to Camelot  as excalibur prime was the first warframe , so maybe some context to explored as well as mordred parts possibly being the tennos roll in orokins downfall

Spoiler

mythological context of lua : the goddess lua  [roman] and was one that soldiers sacrifice captured weapons to , lua is consort to saturn .... maybe some context to investigate 

-the pod?-

some thought the "pod" was new but is something thats been in the game for some time, it appears on inspection to be a piece of the wall structure/ornaments that fell 

Spoiler

-image via leo-

TSD connection?

from what is seen its possible this was the scene right after the moon was brought out of the void 

possibly triggering the awaking /resurgence of the umbra from some hidden area maybe a link to the context of Avalon

maybe open world moon quest? if PoE is indication of the pattern to come 

solar Eclipse - some of the earliest umbra prime pictures [chinaframe] feature an solar eclipsed styled moon

so i decided to explore some mythology there

Mesopotamian-  the substitute king 

Spoiler

 they viewed the eclipse as an assault on the king , this was followed usually by adopting a "substitute/surrogate king" to take the real kings place, and he would masquerade as a commoner, after the eclipse the false king ..would vanish and the real king would take his place on the throne again 

Batammalia- people of earth must settle our differences

Spoiler

 in their mythology the solar eclipse is the moon and sun battling and their conflict will only be settled when the people of the earth settle all of their conflicts/differences 

this is  used as a teaching moment  ..normally 

by a stretch symbolizes a battle  moon and sun , which is reflected by those who completed the war within 

Greek- wrath of the sun or angry sun 

Spoiler

 it was believed to the beginning of disaster and destruction , also Apollo the sun god is well known with the  oracle of delphi 

examples of the eclipse shown

Sword in the Stone ... 

Spoiler

The symbolism of the sword in a stone is clear 

that excalibur umbra pulls the sword from the stone, this could be reflection of him taking up the mantle of some kind, possibly an inheritor , or symbolically taking up arms for combat, we  dont know or have  evidence yet to support this

Spoiler

should also note umbra is in an umbra like shadowing   ^ v

Many of us know the story , Arthur pulls the sword [Excalibur /Caliburn/ Caledfwlch/Calesvol ..ect ]from the stone and is  crowned king 

the sword which was quoted in 12th century to be "the finest sword that there was, which sliced through iron as through wood" 

anyway the early story  by Robert de boron [merlin]  states the sword was in a stone upon an anvil , located in a church yard and appeared there on christmas eve , and only the "divinely appointed" king could pull it free and be successor to pendragon 

Spoiler

 

first teaser & Lady of the lake 

Spoiler

 on reflection possibly this is linked to the new PoE for sure with day night cycle and the river area, and the later the DC / partners script they had to solve  to reveal info

what we know though is POE comes before sacrifice, its possible the the sacrifice is linked into this area when it launches

Spoiler

 

that said.. in post vulgate cycle , the sword was gifted to Arthur by a "lady in the lake " early on after taking the throne and in the first teaser of the sacrifice , we see a "lake" or water that sounds as if someone is walking in it slowly 

-some thoughts of margalus being involved this have popped up -

though the scene and words from sacrifice trailer could be parallel to the context of when  Arthur [wounded] orders Griflet to throw the blade into the lake 

Spoiler

feel bad for him as in many tails the blade is very ..bright when unsheathed

"when the sword was unsheathed what was seen from the mouths of the two chimeras was like two flames of fire, so dreadful that it was not easy for anyone to look."

suffice to say Griflet fails twice [he did not think such a blade should be thrown away] and on third try the blade is caught by a hand that brings it back into the lake [the lady supposedly] 

also supposedly on the blade is an engraving saying "take me up" and "cast me away" , explains why Arthur asks it to be done 

theories:

many tenno have had theories on the lady in the lake via the first trailer, but now with the second one

maybe there is a connection to margaluis/ballas bestowing and/or  hiding this Excalibur variant after the fall of the orokin. we know ballas is the guiding force behind the frames, but whats known is margaluis and other scientist are the creators/ makers, we know the moon has some central ties with lore we know  that some locations tie into lore 

 

Spoiler

its possible lotus hid the  moon either  knowingly or unaware that the umbras were there, as was our pods /operators, maybe more things are still hidden in the moon then even she knew

should also be noted that after pulling the sword he is in a unguarded stance using the sword single handed and no sheath is present, this is symbolic of Excalibur from legend as supposedly morgan le fa stole the scabbard at one point and threw it in the lake  ...

food for thought and conclusion:

Spoiler

with all the symbolism being evident within this trailer,

we now have good evidence to show that umbras are orokin made with the ballas narration like in primes 

we also know ballas may exist still, and  is relevant in the sacrifices plot

Spoiler

so ..it begs the questions...was this umbra always on the moon, even during the void time?

if so was it locked in a secret or as of yet unknown location ? or is it possible ballas recently made it or some other concept..we will wait and see, but if the sacrifice will have teaser videos /images like the war within, then keep an eye on twitch  and twitter 

another idea

time travel ?[yes im going there....]

moon does have time space issues in areas ...  possibly umbra is from the past

though it is noted we have yet to witness any people or orokin alive and walking about in the past 

maybe it was located in the undamaged time zone and hopped to our side? is it possible orokin have been time jumping previously ? 

or is it a cause of void translocation displacement and is a recent phenomena

either way this time section opens up a lot of strange avenues plot could take ...  

 

Thanks for participating in the discussions, hope to see more of your thoughts and ideas as this unfolds  

~Mako

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[Vlada91]

So this is why we are going 2 have him just now.....

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Yeah, look at the Rhino Prime codex entry. They could lose control and go on rampages if not made properly, although that one was probably a prototype.

 

Yes but why would anyone want that?

 

No, that's just DE being DE and making vague lore. The "twisted" are the Tenno they are referring to, and they did build the Warframes around them as conduits, not actually physically but as devices to channel their minds through. Because the Void powers could and would go out of control so the Tenno had to be trained.

 

See the reply under this one v

My theory is that because Stalker was there the day the Orokin got slaughtered, he got splashed with tons of Kuva and that he's now filled with the stuff and that's what's puppeting him around, why he hesitates in the Second Dream finale.

And as far as the Infestation goes, the Orokin probably used different strains for everything. Then, when the Sentients did return pissed and attacked, they broke some sort of holding facility and some of the Infestation in its raw state got out and began to infect and turn people, which led to the Great Plague they refer to in the Mire codex entry, which technically makes the Mire the first natural Infested weapon.

 

Actually it is pretty canon, and all these alternatives people come up with are dumb tbh. I seriously don't see what's wrong with Warframes being mindless puppets that we control as all powerful gods. I don't get why people don't like that, it's way more unique than a lot of other video game plots

Confidence is nice.  And so are Ironclad facts that can be referenced.  Sometimes the two support one another.  Sometimes...a surprise or two is in store.

[KiroTheTraveler]

@(Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako We will have to become King!

 

 

maybe. 

[Corial]

1 minute ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

@(Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako We will have to become King!

 

 

maybe. 

Or Queen, remember the voice packs x3

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Corial said:

Or Queen, remember the voice packs x3

 

2 minutes ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

@(Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako We will have to become King!

 

 

maybe. 

maybe xD

[(PSN)slayerserenity]

When it's coming to PS4 & Xbox One?

[Zortyx]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)slayerserenity said:

When it's coming to PS4 & Xbox One?

Probably a few weeks after it gets on PC which is planned to be the update after PoE and PoE is planned for late summer, gets most of the game breaking bugs fixed and goes through the cert process

Edited July 13, 2017 by Zortyx

[KiroTheTraveler]

28 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

maybe xD

Going from your latest speculation post. 

What I am guessing is that maybe our Tenno will time travel back to the time where probably most beloved figure was alive, Margulis.

The Tenno will have to make a choice whether they want to save Margulis, one choice can result in Dark transference energy.

[METAHUMVN]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

Thanks for participating in the discussions, hope to see more of your thoughts and ideas as this unfolds

Man your post was amazing! So in-depth. I think you're explanation is the closest we've come so far to the truth. 

Along those same lines, I started thinking last night that in the trailer, in Ballas says "yours", the sound goes full surround stereo, and Umbra comes right into the shot when he says "yours". Using plain cinematic logic, perhaps Ballas is talking to the Umbra in the trailer. So it would be like this:

"If you [Umbra] could trade...would you? But all miracles [still a mystery] require sacrifice...their [still a mystery] life, for yours [Umbra]."

So like you said, this quest is going to be about Ballas, Margulis, and the Umbra primarily, set against the framework of the Arthurian legend. 

 

[Golmihr]

5 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

And as far as the Infestation goes, the Orokin probably used different strains for everything. Then, when the Sentients did return pissed and attacked, they broke some sort of holding facility and some of the Infestation in its raw state got out and began to infect and turn people, which led to the Great Plague they refer to in the Mire codex entry, which technically makes the Mire the first natural Infested weapon.

 

No. We already have some lore about it. From the wiki:

"In Warframe, the Infestation was created and utilized by the Orokin to combat the Sentients. Much of the game's lore is presented in an ambiguous fashion; however it can be inferred that the virus seems to have no prejudices as to whom it affects, be it Grineer, Corpus, Orokin, robotic or unarmed civilian; only the Tenno and their Warframes appear to be truly immune to the plague. The presence of both organic and robotic Infested implies that the virus might not have an RNA/DNA base: although the affliction may have organic origins, the virus itself may be bound with nano-machines that invade living cells or machinery in equal measure.

The Mire references something called the "Great Plague" in its description. The Great Plague may be a reference to the Infestation itself or a period after its creation. The Mire's resemblance to the Infested suggests a connection between the Great Plague and the Infested themselves."

 

They probably tried to weaponized their bio tech after the Tenno rebelled. They couldn't use their usual high tech weapons against the Sentients. That's also the lore background to why the Tenno seem to favor old fashioned and simple weapons, like beating stuff to death with a stick. (You can check the description of the Tonbo in the ingame codex for an example)

Edited July 13, 2017 by Golmihr

[KiroTheTraveler]

delete post.

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by CaptainStrawberry

[METAHUMVN]

11 minutes ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

delete post.

 

best post yet

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

Going from your latest speculation post. 

What I am guessing is that maybe our Tenno will time travel back to the time where probably most beloved figure was alive, Margulis.

The Tenno will have to make a choice whether they want to save Margulis, one choice can result in Dark transference energy.

its possible , the time travel aspect is there to be used 

weve got some people on the discord exploring lua for secrets or possibly better pictures of content we know for reference

some have found odd locations  and possible expansion areas  

26 minutes ago, Umbrapocalypse said:

Man your post was amazing! So in-depth. I think you're explanation is the closest we've come so far to the truth. 

Along those same lines, I started thinking last night that in the trailer, in Ballas says "yours", the sound goes full surround stereo, and Umbra comes right into the shot when he says "yours". Using plain cinematic logic, perhaps Ballas is talking to the Umbra in the trailer. So it would be like this:

"If you [Umbra] could trade...would you? But all miracles [still a mystery] require sacrifice...their [still a mystery] life, for yours [Umbra]."

So like you said, this quest is going to be about Ballas, Margulis, and the Umbra primarily, set against the framework of the Arthurian legend. 

 

glad you liked it , it definitely seems Arthurian is heavily incorporated in this, and makes sense with the whole excalibur theme 

possibly we are the thing that could free the umbra , or maybe it needs our sacrifice to live .

one scenario i think could come about as some have suggested early on , is that we lose access to our frame and must rely on the umbra for some part of the mission , and we know sacrifice happens after POE , were we get more armored and weaponized operators, makes sense they could go and explore on their own or not need their frame for a time then 

1 hour ago, Zortyx said:

Probably a few weeks after it gets on PC which is planned to be the update after PoE and PoE is planned for late summer, gets most of the game breaking bugs fixed and goes through the cert process

still waiting on harrow for consoles ... sigh 

[KingBeneathTheMountain]

With the umbra announced at tennocon, now we have the question how we will be able to get him. My theroy: if excal umbra prime > prime access & relics, which you can aquire after the quest, if non prime quest and parts farmable in normal missions.

 

What are your thaughts?

Sorry for my bad english btw...

[dudusagaz]

Excalibur Umbra " PRIME " is exclusive to the Chinese Founder's Pack.

The Umbra coming with The Sacrifice is not " PRIME ", it's just Umbra.

[Raskol]

15 minutes ago, LesLupus said:

Excalibur Umbra " PRIME " is exclusive to the Chinese Founder's Pack.

The Umbra coming with The Sacrifice is not " PRIME ", it's just Umbra.

Will it be any different from normal one besides apperance?

[dudusagaz]

5 minutes ago, Raskolnikow said:

Will it be any different from normal one besides apperance?

Hard to say, we'll have to wait and see.

[Xaero]

10 minutes ago, LesLupus said:

Hard to say, we'll have to wait and see.

Was promised to be virtually identical.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Ksaero