Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

5 hours ago, Ksaero said:

IIRC all PAs there are constantly available. But founder pack is meant to be a limited offer.

This can be a hint to what our global Excal Umbra will be. How different will it be from Chinese Excal Umbra Prime. My bet is that the word "Prime" is the only difference. But if it's really like that, and we will be able to get Excal Umbra during (or after) the cinematic quest, what will Chinese non-founder players get? Nothing? It wouldn't be fair to them. And if they get a frame identical to founder-exclusive item (besides the name) it wouldn't be fair to founders. But the fact that Excal Umbra Prime is always available for purchase kinda solves the issue. You want Umbra - you buy it. You don't care - you pass.

even on china it was limited to founders . the fact remains in no shape or form will we get the excalibur prime or his benefits aka the prime passive  in global on an excal and  should remain the case, founders received it for their help making this game even possible. 

 excaliber umbra -no prime- is going to be made available to everyone , on completion of the quest ..supposedly, china will eventually get the quest also , so even their non founders can enjoy it. as sacrifice is a main quest line story mission

thus ...prime passive or not, 99% we are not in void, so that passive is worthless in standard play. rarely do i see deathorbs out of void so makes it a meh passive in any case

 however ifthe umbra frames have a umbra passive -unknown- that is useful in squads out of void , then id rather have that honestly anyway 

 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

The lotus is missing we try to look for her but instead we find excal umbra in the moon. The End.

[Paradox1903]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

even on china it was limited to founders . the fact remains in no shape or form will we get the excalibur prime or his benefits aka the prime passive  in global on an excal and  should remain the case, founders received it for their help making this game even possible. 

 excaliber umbra -no prime- is going to be made available to everyone , on completion of the quest ..supposedly, china will eventually get the quest also , so even their non founders can enjoy it. as sacrifice is a main quest line story mission

thus ...prime passive or not, 99% we are not in void, so that passive is worthless in standard play. rarely do i see deathorbs out of void so makes it a meh passive in any case

 however ifthe umbra frames have a umbra passive -unknown- that is useful in squads out of void , then id rather have that honestly anyway 

 

Las I heard, chinaframe was shutting down. 

[KiroTheTraveler]

6 minutes ago, Paradox1903 said:

Las I heard, chinaframe was shutting down. 

Not the PC chinaframe

[Paradox1903]

Just now, CaptainStrawberry said:

Not the PC chinaframe

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that, thank you for correcting me.

[Corial]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

even on china it was limited to founders . the fact remains in no shape or form will we get the excalibur prime or his benefits aka the prime passive  in global on an excal and  should remain the case, founders received it for their help making this game even possible. 

 excaliber umbra -no prime- is going to be made available to everyone , on completion of the quest ..supposedly, china will eventually get the quest also , so even their non founders can enjoy it. as sacrifice is a main quest line story mission

thus ...prime passive or not, 99% we are not in void, so that passive is worthless in standard play. rarely do i see deathorbs out of void so makes it a meh passive in any case

 however ifthe umbra frames have a umbra passive -unknown- that is useful in squads out of void , then id rather have that honestly anyway 

 

Good stuff 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, Paradox1903 said:

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that, thank you for correcting me.

it was specifically the ps4 server , just not enough cash $$ influx to justify the activity is my guess 

[Xaero]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

even on china it was limited to founders . the fact remains in no shape or form will we get the excalibur prime or his benefits aka the prime passive  in global on an excal and  should remain the case, founders received it for their help making this game even possible. 

Um, what does it have to do with what I said?

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

excaliber umbra -no prime- is going to be made available to everyone , on completion of the quest

In global version - yes. In China - not so sure.

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

supposedly, china will eventually get the quest also , so even their non founders can enjoy it. as sacrifice is a main quest line story mission

Having the quest doesn't necessarily mean having the frame. Wouldn't we complete Chains of Harrow without having Harrow?

As was seen in the Sacrifice teaser, Excalibur Umbra is visually identical to Excalibur Umbra Prime. Releasing Excalibur Umbra in China as is would be the same if global version players received a frame identical to Excalibur Prime but with different name for free.

Chinese founder pack offer is not limited, it's still available for purchase at any time. Every Chinese non-founder player who becomes interested in obtaining Excal Umbra Prime can do it, unlike our non-founder players. So I guess it's possible that Excal Umbra Prime will be the only upgraded Excal version available in China, and only through buying the founder pack.

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

thus ...prime passive or not, 99% we are not in void, so that passive is worthless in standard play. rarely do i see deathorbs out of void so makes it a meh passive in any case

 however ifthe umbra frames have a umbra passive -unknown- that is useful in squads out of void , then id rather have that honestly anyway 

Global Excalibur Umbra may get the death orb passive as well. No one ever said Prime is the only frame variant eligible for that (as well as having gold parts). Personally, I hope Umbras will gonna get some additional mechanic not affecting main gameplay to not make Primes obsolete.

[Rann0n]

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

But that's just a different package deal, nothing there is exclusive it's just packaged different. 

And in the case of Tennogen items, it's just a different payment method. The items themselves are totally identical.

So, the only truly platform-exclusive visuals are Obsidian, Jade and Onyx. Onyx is indeed Steam exclusive, but still, it's only accessible on PC.

[SprinKah]

Yeah...don't know what I was thinking, here it is, another post about Umbra, I think it is quite obnoxious already and I can't believe I'm SORTA joining in...

I don't want to talk about or hear much about it anymore but I'm just curious with the whole Shadow Stalker's relation to Umbra because of some quite obvious details and well...golden wishbones.

 

1) Why do I think Shadow Stalker is related to... Umbra?

Well, I'll just show 2 pictures, one of Shadow Stalker and one of the recently released Excalibur Umbra teaser from TennoCon, which is pretty much the one from the doomed China Warframe...like just, an exact copy, with the whole golden thingies and all that stuff which I will talk about later.

SHADOW STALKER:

 

EXCALIBUR UMBRA:

 

If you look closely and I'm sure a lot of people have noticed already, maybe I'm just speaking the OBVIOUS but yeah, there are quite a lot of resemblances between Shadow Stalker and Excalibur Umbra, originated from Warframe China and in the teaser in Tennocon.

Look at their chest, they both have the exact same "wish bone" mark.

They also have cloth pieces stuck onto them, Stalker's crotch pieces looking more Sentient like Hunhow accessories though, after inspecting closely through the codex, I think they are really a part of Shadow Stalker warframe, but who knows, I could be wrong.

But all in all, I feel safe to say that it's highly possible that Shadow Stalker is an Umbra.

Though, it all brings me to my other contemplations.

 

2) Why is Excalibur Umbra has golden parts when Shadow Stalker doesn't...AT ALL?

I originally heard that the Excalibur Umbra originally shown in the Warframe China's video, it was going to Excalibur Umbra PRIME, being the equivalence to Excalibur Prime, Founder Pack in the World Build.

But as some of you may know, Warframe China is closing REALLY SOON cause of playercount problems. So I suppose DE has access to that warframe now...

And I guess they just...used it as the Excalibur Umbra?

I mean, it makes me wonder, if Shadow Stalker is an Umbra (with all the resemblances to Excal umbra in Sacrifice teaser)...why doesn't he have all the golden wishbones and crazy golden trimmings and stuff?

I really thought what we were going to get is a warframe that looks like SHADOW STALKER, without all the gold wishbones and Stalker helmet and stuff...and the one from Warframe China is the PRIME of it...

 

Maybe, there are reasons, maybe what DE used in the Sacrifice teaser is Excalibur Umbra PRIME and the normal version isn't shown yet, maybe it is because Warframe China ending, DE had the access to that warframe and well, used it to make the trailer and in reality, they haven't even started on modelling their own version of Excalibur Umbra :/

Heck I don't even know, but I hope there's a reason, maybe I'm just thinking too hard on it, maybe DE just didn't really care about those details? We'll see when it comes to it I suppose. I'm not trying to nitpick DE or anything, they do good job and they have been working on PoE a lot so, idk.

 

3) Sacrifice?

There are already tons of predictions and stuff about that. But let's look at the Stalker.

Before Hunhow and all of his razzle dazzles, Stalker was just...an Excalibur with a different helmet in black and red, edgy colors.

And when he came to Hunhow, DE gave him a different look that is VERY similar to Excalibur Umbra (the chest wishbone mark and other stuff). Maybe Stalker DID sacrifice something to become like that.

Maybe he sacrificed his weapons? his original Excalibur form? his soul?

I don't know, some of the theories from other people I think are quite damn crazy honestly. Sacrificing Operator? Crazy...

could be true, could be not.. I don't really care about it too much really. Maybe we'll just have to sacrfice a non-primed warframe, like Mesa for Mesa Umbra, Loki for Loki Umbra and etc etc...

 

I suppose that's all I got...

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by SprinKah

[DxAdder]

Wow ANOTHER Umbra thread, go post in the Mega thread please.

 

[Sajochi]

A while back, not sure when, it was confirmed that Stalker's helmet is that of Excalibur. From a game design standpoint, it was probably easier for the China build to slap on golden pieces on the base Stalker model and add a scarf. 

As for lore theories, I for one believe that the Stalker is a dax with no master, altered by none other than Ballas. An experiment that is a combination from what he learned from the warframe project and what makes a dax. This could translate to the creation of Umbras, where the operator potentially takes the form of an Umbra.

As for what is sacrificed, Ballas may have already paid that price, but not with his own life. But that's just my brain doing a thing. 

[SprinKah]

Just now, DxAdder said:

Wow ANOTHER Umbra thread, go post in the Mega thread please.

 

 

yeah, another one, I'm not even mad about this I don't want to talk or hear about Umbra anymore honestly. This is more about Shadow Stalker and his Umbra relation and stuff....

don't know if I can delete this thread but I'll be fine with it going into the Megathread...didn't even know there's a megathread about this whole Umbra thing but I'm sure there are A LOT of threads about umbra.

[SprinKah]

3 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

A while back, not sure when, it was confirmed that Stalker's helmet is that of Excalibur. From a game design standpoint, it was probably easier for the China build to slap on golden pieces on the base Stalker model and add a scarf. 

As for lore theories, I for one believe that the Stalker is a dax with no master, altered by none other than Ballas. An experiment that is a combination from what he learned from the warframe project and what makes a dax. This could translate to the creation of Umbras, where the operator potentially takes the form of an Umbra.

As for what is sacrificed, Ballas may have already paid that price, but not with his own life. But that's just my brain doing a thing. 

Yeah you're right, doing that would be quite easier...

And yeah, I have heard a lot talking about this whole thing with Umbra being a sorta...combination between an operator and a warframe, merging into one or something like that...

[ShadowStalker]

Not sure if its just me but i dont think Shadow Stalker will even have an appearance in the quest i mean yes he has a excalibur umbra body but as far as i know even normal stalker has the umbra body now just without the pakal armour so it cant be some sacrifice and as for umbra they might be orokin custom frames or maybe ballas himself i guess who knows its just to damn complicated and we wont know till DE releases it to be honest

Edited July 28, 2017 by ShadowStalker

[SprinKah]

Just now, ShadowStalker said:

Not sure if its just me but i dont think stalker will even have an appearance in the quest i mean yes he has a excalibur umbra body but as far as i know even normal stalker has the umbra body now just without the pakal armour so it cant be some sacrifice and as for umbra they might be orokin custom frames or maybe ballas himself i guess who knows its just to damn complicated and we wont know till DE releases it to be honest

yeah, it's quite a waste of time doing this but...god I don't know what else is better i can do with my life at this point >:|

I mean I know he does have an Excal-like body, but...that wishbone mark on his chest man...

[NightmareT12]

They basically updated the Stalker model to something more custom and elegant, as Excalibur got his PBR update but Stalker didn't really.

Maybe they wanted to use the Umbra narrative (living person -> Warframe) to give him some more backstory or something.

As for gold or not, he uses a custom body. He's clad himself with a custom helm and linings, I don't see why the metallic tint, which all Warframes can change, would be such a great deal honestly.

[SprinKah]

2 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

They basically updated the Stalker model to something more custom and elegant, as Excalibur got his PBR update but Stalker didn't really.

Maybe they wanted to use the Umbra narrative (living person -> Warframe) to give him some more backstory or something.

As for gold or not, he uses a custom body. He's clad himself with a custom helm and linings, I don't see why the metallic tint, which all Warframes can change, would be such a great deal honestly.

I mean, if it's as easy as it is to just, rip your head off and replace with another one like in Warframe, if that's really the case then I guess...yeah

guess Stalker could've just ripped all of those golden wishbone bad boys out, even the ones on his chest? heck who knows...

[Koldraxon-732]

Shadow-Stalker and the Pakal armour:

Spoiler

 

Shadow-Stalker's extra parts could be a pre-Gift that Hunhow (the metallic bits on Umbra that are covered by his shouldercloth and on his chest are recoloured Pakal purple, that's why they can't be seen; try getting closeups of him BEFORE he adapts to damage) provided to prepare his body for when he attaches the Pakal armour.

Also, Stalker may've built the incomplete Umbra components into himself, giving him his pre-Pakal-clad look).

 

Theoretical lore on Umbra's special features, that make obtaining him require completion of The War Within:

Spoiler

Beyond that, one could say that the Umbra frame was an early proto-Warframe; so powerful that, when you command it, it commands you. Meaning, since the War Within experience, you can't leave the Warframe to use Focus, but when you do leave to rush into Siphons, the Umbra would function like a Specter unless ordered to stay put. 

The Sacrifice, and implications of Ballas' words:

Spoiler

As for the Sacrifice itself, it could've been Margulis Ballas was talking about, or, if it's a present sacrifice, then it'll most likely be an Excalibur, access to Focus Powers during the mission, and something you probably obtain in the quest and are forced to choose A or B.

What I've heard about Chinaframe, and Umbra's visuals need another toggle or two:

Spoiler

As for Chinaframe, last I heard was that it was their Console builds shutting down and that was managed by Perfect World (supposedly the same people who manage Star Trek Online and other titles), so they're still there. Even though DE chose the most direct route (reusing Umbra Prime for Umbra), I would prefer the option of toggling off the crescents on his arms as they, to me, don't fit him so well. 

 

[SprinKah]

5 minutes ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Shadow-Stalker and the Pakal armour:

  Hide contents

 

Shadow-Stalker's extra parts could be a pre-Gift that Hunhow (the metallic bits on Umbra that are covered by his shouldercloth and on his chest are recoloured Pakal purple, that's why they can't be seen; try getting closeups of him BEFORE he adapts to damage) provided to prepare his body for when he attaches the Pakal armour.

Also, Stalker may've built the incomplete Umbra components into himself, giving him his pre-Pakal-clad look).

 

Theoretical lore on Umbra's special features, that make obtaining him require completion of The War Within:

  Hide contents

Beyond that, one could say that the Umbra frame was an early proto-Warframe; so powerful that, when you command it, it commands you. Meaning, since the War Within experience, you can't leave the Warframe to use Focus, but when you do leave to rush into Siphons, the Umbra would function like a Specter unless ordered to stay put. 

The Sacrifice, and implications of Ballas' words:

  Hide contents

As for the Sacrifice itself, it could've been Margulis Ballas was talking about, or, if it's a present sacrifice, then it'll most likely be an Excalibur, access to Focus Powers during the mission, and something you probably obtain in the quest and are forced to choose A or B.

What I've heard about Chinaframe, and Umbra's visuals need another toggle or two:

  Hide contents

As for Chinaframe, last I heard was that it was their Console builds shutting down and that was managed by Perfect World (supposedly the same people who manage Star Trek Online and other titles), so they're still there. Even though DE chose the most direct route (reusing Umbra Prime for Umbra), I would prefer the option of toggling off the crescents on his arms as they, to me, don't fit him so well. 

 

right on brother, theories sound nice and legit, reasonable

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:08 AM, Corial said:

The enhanced body of Umbra is what makes him look visually stunning. Its like comparing sybaris to sybaris prime 

But what about the Dex Sybaris?

On 7/26/2017 at 5:35 AM, LogaMC1995 said:

Apart from the crescents on his arm, everything else is better compared to regular Excal, heck even better than Excal Prime I say. +1 for that sweet scarf.

I agree, but to me they are so distracting and break the flow of the profile that I'd probably just pass on the frame

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

it was specifically the ps4 server , just not enough cash $$ influx to justify the activity is my guess 

From what I heard it was heavy P2W on consoles( from what I'm aware a different company is in charge of console versions, and suposedly its a notorious one) so yeah they were skinning people for their money.

[Xaero]

3 hours ago, SprinKah said:

doomed China Warframe

PS4 Chinaframe closure doesn't neccesarily mean the end of PC Chinaframe.

3 hours ago, SprinKah said:

If you look closely and I'm sure a lot of people have noticed already, maybe I'm just speaking the OBVIOUS but yeah, there are quite a lot of resemblances between Shadow Stalker and Excalibur Umbra, originated from Warframe China and in the teaser in Tennocon.

We've first seen Umbra in July, 2015. Shadow Stalker - December, 2015. Guess when their similarity was figured out.

BTW here's the image of Shadow Stalker in DE's blog. He used to have the body model even more similar to Umbra. Also, the gold parts are recolored in red.

3 hours ago, SprinKah said:

Maybe, there are reasons, maybe what DE used in the Sacrifice teaser is Excalibur Umbra PRIME and the normal version isn't shown yet, maybe it is because Warframe China ending, DE had the access to that warframe and well, used it to make the trailer and in reality, they haven't even started on modelling their own version of Excalibur Umbra :/

Heck I don't even know, but I hope there's a reason, maybe I'm just thinking too hard on it, maybe DE just didn't really care about those details? We'll see when it comes to it I suppose. I'm not trying to nitpick DE or anything, they do good job and they have been working on PoE a lot so, idk.

Back in 2015 global Excalibur Umbra was promised to be virtually identical to Excalibur Umbra Prime. The only difference known by far is the name, and it's most likely to be just that. Gold parts are not exclusive to Primes.

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, Ksaero said:

PS4 Chinaframe closure doesn't neccesarily mean the end of PC Chinaframe.

We've first seen Umbra in July, 2015. Shadow Stalker - December, 2015. Guess when their similarity was figured out.

BTW here's the image of Shadow Stalker in DE's blog. He used to have the body model even more similar to Umbra. Also, the gold parts are recolored in red.

 

  Hide contents

 

Back in 2015 global Excalibur Umbra was promised to be virtually identical to Excalibur Umbra Prime. The only difference known by far is the name, and it's most likely to be just that. Gold parts are not exclusive to Primes.

good points, very good points...I think you pretty much settled quite a large amount of my contemplation!

I wonder why Stalker didn't just...yknow...keep the golden parts because of all that, it kinda looks neat on him actually.

I also never really noticed that whole pre-Shadow Stalker model, that's quite...a liberating thingy there.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Quote

the "Originator's" (which means founder) umbra Excalibur prime will not be commonly available. The Umbra Excalibur Prime is an exclusive warframe developed by DE for the Chinese version of warframe and is only available to "Originators". This warframe will not appear in game to purchase under the market nor will it drop in game. We (Changyou) and DE has finalized and agreed on this and will not be changing our position on this.

quite a bit , the  EUP was specific to their founders and per legal contract it  cannot be sold in game , nor can it ever drop in game , so the entire context of suggesting it be sold is pointless 

also as excalibur prime founders is the reason we wont get a prime "excal" variation , i was tryign to hammer that point home for not just you, as we get plenty viewing the thread

 the whole reason we get umbras to begin with is due to the two agreements both founders & changyou 

Quote

there will be an umbra Excalibur as the first of the umbra series

16 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Um, what does it have to do with what I said?

 natah, tsd, , tww , kinda logical for them to get poe then sacrifice at some point. and as its a quest reward and since excalibur umbra =/= excalibur umbra prime its a probable outcome, as excal umbra is technically not excal umbra prime

harrows quest drops harrows bp, which you can grind for the parts ,  as the contract states it cannot drop in game , specifically under regular content and market , means it can either drop from a new system of obtainment not covered in contract , or its a quest reward , which is one that pretty far into the game content wise , you have to be MR 5> to do right?

16 hours ago, Ksaero said:

In global version - yes. In China - not so sure.

Having the quest doesn't necessarily mean having the frame. Wouldn't we complete Chains of Harrow without having Harrow?

cosmetically identical and being identical are two different things ,   twins dont have to be same mentally , in this regard its just about its functions/stats and mechanics 

eup has prime passive and a set of stats

we dont know if EU will have the same stats or even if it keeps same animations as any excalibur , or even if all powers match up , or ??? , kinda the whole problem with it as the umbra stuffs a mystery still 

also mechanically if umbras are to alter game dynamics as it was talked  on having,a EUP and a EU in a squad would bring different conditions to play , then even if they "look" the same the play and content for each is different , thus gameplay wouldnt be identical with these two variations together in match 

16 hours ago, Ksaero said:

 

Chinese founder pack offer is not limited, it's still available for purchase at any time. Every Chinese non-founder player who becomes interested in obtaining Excal Umbra Prime can do it, unlike our non-founder players. So I guess it's possible that Excal Umbra Prime will be the only upgraded Excal version available in China, and only through buying the founder pack.

 

yes its still available , http://activity2.changyou.com/wf/pay/founder.jsp but star armor is not equivalent to warframe on every level, think funhouse mirror , it has plenty of variance in stats and mechanics to ours ,their wukong for instance is ..  his 4 is a bit broken compared to ours ..its fun 

technically they can profit off the eup and eu in that game as the eu is different from their founders, and as their founders has different equipment, unlike our the spira prime and nikana prime are not available to all , probably why in sacrifice umbra has a normal nikana .

as an example the orthos prime & lex prime are sold with the frost prime for them, for us we can get from relics free 

 again unlike our global their accesses are all available to buy, we on global get timed ones as we have a larger region of players from around the globe , chinas is a closed game variant so they need to offer that to promote $$ sales on its limited user saturation 

with EU dropped in their game its doubtful it will hurt the founders sales for them, as its possible that quest for them will be a paid one ,  or that their excal umbra [free] is less stat and function to the paid founders version 

i assume de has already worked out the china release , though so maybe they get another cinematic quest , probably with another umbra variant we get later one,possibly sacrifice for them will be a founders quest , or one thats a cinematic one only 

either way its up to de & changyou to make those calls , it will either provide us with more content or unaffect us  globally