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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]


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1 hour ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

Umbra and yeah the topic was already talked about in this thread.

Thats stupid, you also dont just mash every hydroid or zephyr rework thread into one. Is there a way I can get my thread out of here again?

And since its here now... feedback?

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When I first saw Umbra I sort of hoped it wouldn't come to the global server, even though it must be cool to have one myself. Since it was originally made to be Chinaframe's exclusive. Now it has become a quest that we can all get Umbra, would chinese players there get salty as this quest will be released too? (Not to mention, 'Making up the lore because fans wanted it' territory which ruins many games I've played. But I might be too cynical)

I felt like it should be better be a new Excal model. Or DE did a mistake for not allowing Chinaframe to use Excal Prime (It's seperated from global anyway, so what's the point of its exclusivity?).

Now I'm looking forward to how Umbra would be presented in the game story, he looks kind of similar to Stalker in some way.

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7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Now that you mention zenurik and trinity, I would say limit them (a cap for max energy regen so that it doesnt reverse the passive drain. And for trinity there would be a hard cap on how much energy umbra can get at once).

A mix of both "not being affected by power capacity and efficiency" and "gets energy from kills" would actually be better, as it would limit powers to be tactical tools rather than powerspam without actually harming patient players who like to sneak around. Have you faced Parasitic Eximus? How most players hate them? well, that what you are proposing, only all the time.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

This is not a better alternative at all. First of all you can just max duration, strength and range or put on what ever else you want. Not having to worry about efficiency is just boring and too powerful.

Maybe, but remember, Duration Range and Strength are fine, Efficiency is the broken stat in the game, and that one needs to be put in line with the others or removed outright.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Also the gameplay this demands/rewards is just waiting and not using abilities, until you have enough energy to do something. Zenurik would always be used as well. Trinity would just make it completely overpowered because you have no energy cap and can just keep spamming maxed (range/strength/duration) abilities.

I think you misunderstood what I said, I didn't mean having no cap, but rather the frame not being affected by Flow or Endurance Drift, essentially you use whatever the frame's defaul max energy pool is (for Ash that's 150)

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

I know its a downgrade, but i wanted it to be more active, running around and making sure no one sees you. There is a middleground, which is "enemy is aware of you, but doesnt see you" (invisibility). I ll make a new ability description because I dont like how i described it in the first place and how the "awareness timer" gets received:

"When the ability is activated, enemies stop 'seeing' ash u. Now whenever ash u gets in line of sight of an enemy, this enemy (and maybe every enemy thats in a 5-10 meter radius around him) will be 'able to see' him in 5 seconds. During these 5 seconds (before they 'can see you') the enemy should be marked somehow so the player knows that he has to do something about him. Tgere should also be an indication for when this enemy is currently not on screen, like a red arrow at the side if your screen. If you pass through an enemy, he will be 'unable to see' you again - until you get in line of sight again (you are usually behind an enemy if he was looking at you and you walk through him)."

Im not sure of I should replace the "able to see you" part (marked with ') "aware of you"

And lets make every enemy you pass through stagger, because it will prevent them from turning around immediately AND will make you happy :D

This should also fix your problem with his 3.

The thing is that DE would need to rebalance how enemy awareness works, and this would also be completely useless in direct fights because of how enemy AI Hivemind works. Invisibility as it is works fine, what needs to be added is enemies that can see and maybe even dispel it.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

This is not bladestorm, and is not supposed to be used for killing large crowds, but for picking the strongest enemies and either use them to your advantage (magnetize, link) or kill them. regardless of their level.

That¡s what Teleport is for. Blade Storm is supposed to be the mass killin version. I don't get why it's so freakin impossible to make people realise that 2 abilities doing the exact same thing is terrible design.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

 

Also, 50 at BASE. Means you can tone it down with efficiency to less than 20. 14 × 20 is 280, which is fine to me, because having a mark on 15 enemies is insane.

First of all,  NO FRAME should have it's powers balanced around a broken stat. Second, no frame should have required stats to work. The frame should be able to normally function at defaul Efficiency just fine. And even your math is wrong, because at 50 base +75% Efficiency would reduce it to 12.5... which is a near the same as current marks on Default Efficiency. Marking 15 enemies is your average endless mission. You fail to grasp not only ability design, but also basic math and what "build diversity" means. Currently Blade Storm has a capacity to mark 50 enemies, rising it's base cost of 15(45 with 3 marks) to 810 (2250) which is insane because it forces efficiency to actually use the ability. It gets to the point that Blade Storm, right NOW, it's pointless, as a cheap 35 energy Smoke Screen and a good melee can wipe a crowd of 10 or 20 enemies without locking you out of gameplay, faster and for way less energy. Want to oneshot high profile specific targets? Teleport, even more so if the Augment is equiped (which lowers it's cost to 15, so at higher levels using teleport is more efficient than using Blade Storm).

You completely miss the point of having an "Ultimate" ability, which Ash currently DOESN'T have because DE decided to pick the second dumbest idea ever, after they scrapped The Most Dumbest Idea Ever, which was "World on Blade Storm".

For example, say my build consists of:

-

Steel Charge (aura) Handspring (Exilus)

Vitality, Steel Fiber/Redirection, Armored Agility/Rush, Enemy Sense

Rending Turn/Mobilize, Rage, Smoke Shadow, Fatal Teleport.

-

How the F*CK you expect me to use the "ultimate" without marking only 2-3 meeager enemies and be completely drained (assuming you broken drain hasn't done that first)? Why not just NOT use the ability at all and just cast SS and melee everything?

By the way, that's my actual Build in-game. And I play it just fine, except I don't use Failstorm. Oh, and by the way, that's the build I used before revisit, and it worked fine, no blade spam at all, but I got scr*wed out my Ultimate because people were abusing Efficiency.

So, instead of balancing more stuff around that broken stat, just remove it out of the equation and you INSTANTLY solve the problem.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

This was not an idea for a bladestorm rework.

Too bad, because that's what Ash actually NEEDS.

Current Blade Storm is the most useless horrid version of the ability so far, mixin original Blade Storm target-by-target stupid slow cutscenes with annoying marking mode AND broken cost that kills build diversity because it requires Max Efficiency.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Then use another frame for spy missions. Also, you can kill without being detected.

The "use another frame" doesn't fly.

Try to apply your logic  to other frames:

Loki Umbra. Uses 50 energy per target affected by Radial Dissarm. Or make Ember use 50 energy per enemy hit by WoF. Excal using 50 energy per swing on EB? or better 50 energy per swing per enemy hit!

No matter how you look at it, broken cost, stupid drain that everyone hates and required max efficiency are NOT good game design.

7 hours ago, EpicBred said:

If your interested, my idea for ash umbras 5 was the operator doing an animation and then going into marking mode (like the marking mode from the current bladestorm) and letting you mark everything you point at for 3 seconds. These marks arent bladestorm markes but like the "deathmarks" from my new 4th ability.

Thank you for your detailled feedback Nazrethim! I hope you reply to this like you did before!

Oh, I thought it was more like FFXII's Gilgamesh Limit Break, except with Ash using his blades. In that the game freezes for a second and the frame does a super cool stuff that obliterates everything. Like this:

Spoiler

 

 

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Just now, Ninjadeath721 said:

probably cause they use the same body

So does it mean that, even Umbra was released first in Chinaframe, they might have thought about legitimate lore on Umbra before? I always thought it's just a substitute for Excal Prime all these time. Even as a faint idea that they later expanded on, but an idea nonetheless?

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Umbra has a lore that's why we are getting a quest, Like I mentioned once, umbra was about to relese just after wukong but it never did, now I can understand why and its because they made up a lore to it.

Now expect it to be heavy lore with The Sacrifice quest, all we know from all those years is that Umbra is a dark version of primes since told by DE.

As well that it will not be only Excalibur umbra, there will be other umbra frames, but may be limited to those first warframes. A.k.a. Excal, Rhino, Loki etc.

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10 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Also why is my thread here now? Who did move it there and why? You also dont just put every warframe rework idea into the "retune all warframes" thread do you?

because your specifically discussing umbras as topic basis, 

the purpose of the megathread is to create a point for any and all fragmented "discussion" topics to be in one place , so usually its asked to be merged by anyone who found it, users/mods/admins 

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2 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Thats stupid, you also dont just mash every hydroid or zephyr rework thread into one. Is there a way I can get my thread out of here again?

And since its here now... feedback?

actually they do, there are plenty of megathreads in feedback on certain frames/ topics 

normally if its a few independent  ideas on a topic that dont repeat they dont merg

but if its one that is  "heavily talked on"  then a megathread arrives to act as a pooling point for such ideas 

 

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1 hour ago, Yhtmahyll said:

So does it mean that, even Umbra was released first in Chinaframe, they might have thought about legitimate lore on Umbra before? I always thought it's just a substitute for Excal Prime all these time. Even as a faint idea that they later expanded on, but an idea nonetheless?

if you go to op ->discussion->theories stalker has his own section 

we dont know if the excal umbra ever had lore initially , but some will come in sacrifice i believe 

the only thing we know is Excalibur U and shadow stalker share same body and shadow stalker initially had arm blades but were later removed 

at this point they just recycled the body , and no real "cannon" connection is known at this time

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(Stating this based on the image / mod in .misc)

A lot of theories are coming up, a very common one being the fact that you can trade your excalibur prime (sometimes regular excalibur) for umbra version. In my opinion, it won't happen. Let's say that you can exchange the prime version for umbra, which would leave a very limited part of the community / playerbase to do it; Which would then would make no sense announcing its arrival in TennoCon, to then let everyone down.

Stating that you can exchange your regular excalibur for umbra is just purely outrageous. It would be the same as doing so with the prime versions; Which would make no sense. You most likely will have to grind for it.

Then again, they stated that they would like to implement it on it's own, not as a re-skin; Which would make more sense to have Excalibur, Excalibur Prime & Excalibur Umbra (and possibly add it to more warframes as time comes). The way of getting it? I have no clue, but most definitely not going to be an exchange.

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Just now, Yumua said:

(Stating this based on the image / mod in .misc)

A lot of theories are coming up, a very common one being the fact that you can trade your excalibur prime (sometimes regular excalibur) for umbra version. In my opinion, it won't happen. Let's say that you can exchange the prime version for umbra, which would leave a very limited part of the community / playerbase to do it; Which would then would make no sense announcing its arrival in TennoCon, to then let everyone down.

Stating that you can exchange your regular excalibur for umbra is just purely outrageous. It would be the same as doing so with the prime versions; Which would make no sense. You most likely will have to grind for it.

Then again, they stated that they would like to implement it on it's own, not as a re-skin; Which would make more sense to have Excalibur, Excalibur Prime & Excalibur Umbra (and possibly add it to more warframes as time comes). The way of getting it? I have no clue, but most definitely not going to be an exchange.

i think thats good summation against the sacrifice/exchange system 

we know umbras get a unique means of obtaining , different from primes, but thats unknown 

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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

i think thats good summation against the sacrifice/exchange system 

we know umbras get a unique means of obtaining , different from primes, but thats unknown 

I would guess it being a quest line, but then keep making one for every single release makes no sense, and would be time consuming.

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2 minutes ago, Yumua said:

I would guess it being a quest line, but then keep making one for every single release makes no sense, and would be time consuming.

some considered that we grind for them, but not like a relic system, possibly in trials or sub quests to gain a piece of them , or we hunt a unit and it drops its parts 

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3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

some considered that we grind for them, but not like a relic system, possibly in trials or sub quests to gain a piece of them , or we hunt a unit and it drops its parts 

Completely forgot regarding the plains. There's also a chance they implement a system in it so you achieve Umbra parts specifically through it. (Then again, they did keep us from knowing a bunch of stuff, so anything really is possible).

Information regarding Umbra is very vague so speculation will turn in overthought. 

Edited by Yumua
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I think we should also start talking about the overhaul of the focus system, because that's definitely going to be related to the Umbra. How do you guys think DE will overhaul the focus system? We obviously know that:

1. They will not be getting rid of operators. 

2. The only time that the word "Umbra" has been mentioned in-game, officially, is in Zenurik's stage 2 active ability, which is called "Umbra Lance" (which by the way, I did unlock just recently and holy S#&$ it is amazing, even though it doesn't do that much damage lol). 

So how do you think they'll rework focus? The main complaints about the current system are the amount of grind and the fact that some focus schools are way more useful compared to others. 

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4 minutes ago, Umbrapocalypse said:

I think we should also start talking about the overhaul of the focus system, because that's definitely going to be related to the Umbra. How do you guys think DE will overhaul the focus system? We obviously know that:

1. They will not be getting rid of operators. 

2. The only time that the word "Umbra" has been mentioned in-game, officially, is in Zenurik's stage 2 active ability, which is called "Umbra Lance" (which by the way, I did unlock just recently and holy S#&$ it is amazing, even though it doesn't do that much damage lol). 

So how do you think they'll rework focus? The main complaints about the current system are the amount of grind and the fact that some focus schools are way more useful compared to others. 

we know focus is getting the hammer soon , probably with sacrifice 

many think the moon sun via tww comes into play in new power behavior and function in new focus system tie in 

id like to think regardless of frame, the powers remain independent of focus as thats the operators powers effectively. though perhaps type of frame used with alignment alters powers  effects on frame type or grants squad buffs 

another thing I think they will roll out the dark operators into functions because they have their own capabilities as seen in harrows quest 

 

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22 minutes ago, Yumua said:

Completely forgot regarding the plains. There's also a chance they implement a system in it so you achieve Umbra parts specifically through it. (Then again, they did keep us from knowing a bunch of stuff, so anything really is possible).

Information regarding Umbra is very vague so speculation will turn in overthought. 

we know POE is the first open world area and more will follow, and sacrifice comes after specifically , sot here may be a tie in or a factor for parts acquisition as its a new system 

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22 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

we know focus is getting the hammer soon , probably with sacrifice 

 

 

Actually, we kinda don't know that. The big reveal for Operators and Focus shown was that they get guns to channel their Void beam through, and they get armour to help them survive longer, and that DE do still kind of intend to take a little hammer to Focus. The subtext there was 'Oh god, Focus. Look guys, we have no idea what the hell to do with Focus. None. The best idea we have is to use some kind of external gun to alter it, i.e. we're gonna strap another subsystem onto it because we can't actually just fix it.'

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1 hour ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

we know POE is the first open world area and more will follow, and sacrifice comes after specifically , sot here may be a tie in or a factor for parts acquisition as its a new system 

One thing i was thinking about, is that did you all noticed that the moon looks destroyed on the last Devstream when Steve showed a bit of PoE ?

maybe The Sacrifice has something to do with it? if it does, then it will be a quest only avaible after the completation of The Second Dream but something odd is, if PoE is coming before The Sacrifice, and The Sacrifice is maybe set on the moon, then it makes no sense that PoE is first?.

I just found it a bit out of place that PoE is coming out first if this is true about the moon.

Edited by Eminem37
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6 minutes ago, Ninjadeath721 said:

isn't that just the pre TSD version of the moon?

I don't know, there was a speculation some pages back here about the moon destroyed when they saw a video that Steve made a on the start of this month I think.

In anyway that speculation and both new upcoming updates just made me think about that.

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1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Actually, we kinda don't know that. The big reveal for Operators and Focus shown was that they get guns to channel their Void beam through, and they get armour to help them survive longer, and that DE do still kind of intend to take a little hammer to Focus. The subtext there was 'Oh god, Focus. Look guys, we have no idea what the hell to do with Focus. None. The best idea we have is to use some kind of external gun to alter it, i.e. we're gonna strap another subsystem onto it because we can't actually just fix it.'

thats why i said probably  sacrifice for big changes, each cinematic has had a operator alteration /addon so i thin its at least a likely platform 

the whole laser ray gun idea sounds awesome..but i want operator melee 

56 minutes ago, Eminem37 said:

One thing i was thinking about, is that did you all noticed that the moon looks destroyed on the last Devstream when Steve showed a bit of PoE ?

maybe The Sacrifice has something to do with it? if it does, then it will be a quest only avaible after the completation of The Second Dream but something odd is, if PoE is coming before The Sacrifice, and The Sacrifice is maybe set on the moon, then it makes no sense that PoE is first?.

I just found it a bit out of place that PoE is coming out first if this is true about the moon.

we dont know , we do know steve said spoilers when he saw it, and even rebecca did some pointers to it ... so maybe a valid idea 

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1 hour ago, Eminem37 said:

I don't know, there was a speculation some pages back here about the moon destroyed when they saw a video that Steve made a on the start of this month I think.

In anyway that speculation and both new upcoming updates just made me think about that.

Yeah was wondering aswell what that is all about, but it doesn't seem to be pre-TSD since there was "nothing", there was no moon or any pieces of it visible.It looks more like the moon was torn apart.

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