Forbid MR8- players to play Void Fissures

[Noloic]

This feedback might result harsh, but I believe it's time to face reality.

Newbie players want everything, want powerful equipments, and want them immediately. Yet they can't even Bullet Jump. And they don't know even know how to shoot with that MK1-Braton. Why the Braton? Because it's their only Weapon in the Arsenal apart from MK1-Lato and MK1-Skana. I'd say : «Learn the basics, first. Then, you might aspire to Prime equipments.».

I'm sorry for them, but their inexperience only brings disease and weight to other teammates that already know how to correctly run a Void FIssure wheter the mission type and fight the corruption. These newbies don't know how to run missions (type-regardless), don't know how to use Skills or use them randomly and without a specific tactic or pattern (in most cases), don't have a decent-built equipment (because of their lack or limited collection of Mods) (meaning they'll deal little to zero damage and die fast), slow down all team's pace (if the majority of it is composed by these kind of players) and leech other players' Relics' rewards as well even though they did nothing during the mission but irritating other, elder players. The worst ones don't even have a Void Relic and run fissures anyway because they don't know what they are, so they don't even bring a potential reward to the rest of the team.

I honestly am annoyed of finding MR0~4 players in Void Fissures, especially Lith and Meso ones (fortunately they stop appearing in Neos and Axis, even though I sometimes faced some because they retained from a previous team), and I believe I'm not the only one.
A way to stop this plague is, in my opinion, limit the Void Fissures entry to MR8+ players only, whose at least managed to learn basics, how mission types work and know how different stats, Elements and weapon types work. I thought about MR8 because its test isn't much newbie-friendly, and requires a minimum knowledge of parkour in order to be completed. This, and because limiting the entry to MR11+ (its test is damn hard even for mid-players, and surely impossible for a newbie to clear) would have been way too much.

If not a Mastery Rank limitation, let's say a planetary limit, like "players that cleared Ceres-Jupiter Junction may participate in Lith Void Fissures", "players that cleared Uranus-Neptune Junction may participate in Meso Void Fissures" and so on. Anyway, a limit is required, in my opinion.

[OriVerda]

Well, you know, you could also teach them how to do things correctly.

I get what you're saying and yeah it's annoying when a new player who has yet to truly get a feel for the game rushes to get meta weaponry and weighs the team down but honestly, that's par for the course with MMO games. It's up to us as experienced players to show them the way!

[LSG501]

Maybe not fissures but I wouldn't mind seeing some more restrictions added to sorties although neo and axi might fall into the same categories.    I can kind of understand you idea of restricting certain aspects of the game to certain mr levels because it does get annoying when you end having to carry the team..... but then I think about it a bit more and think is it the newbies fault or the dev's fault for allowing warframes to have abilities like wof (ember) that can decimate the starmap meaning the others don't have to do anything....

Having said that the amount of times I've done a sortie (not noticed it so much in relic runs) and there is at least one other player using it as a 'levelling' mission for their 'main' weapons is just stupid.  I can understand if you're like a support frame not getting many kills or if you go down a few times due to having a squishy frame (it happens) but if you come in with an 'offensive' frame but have no weapons that can do any damage and/or keep dying because of it then that to me is bordering on leeching and it needs to be stopped.  

[artemisfortune]

12 minutes ago, OriVerda said:

Well, you know, you could also teach them how to do things correctly.

I get what you're saying and yeah it's annoying when a new player who has yet to truly get a feel for the game rushes to get meta weaponry and weighs the team down but honestly, that's par for the course with MMO games. It's up to us as experienced players to show them the way!

Well said.

Just to piggyback, the last thing Warframe needs is to alienate it's playerbase more.

[Praxxor]

Don't play PUG games then. Restricting new players would only bring damage to the game, which will damage the trading economy and you as a consequence.

[MetalNovaZ]

19 minutes ago, OriVerda said:

Well, you know, you could also teach them how to do things correctly.

I get what you're saying and yeah it's annoying when a new player who has yet to truly get a feel for the game rushes to get meta weaponry and weighs the team down but honestly, that's par for the course with MMO games. It's up to us as experienced players to show them the way!

Totally agree.

New players are restricted enough, if anything, DE needs to make instructions more clear and everything more transparent for their playerbase

I've been playing for 3 years now and I'm still < MR 20. Some players just like using their specific set for weapons they find fun.

Edited July 1, 2017 by MetalNovaZ

[Koldraxon-732]

Alternatives to Mastery or Junction locking:

Spoiler

I've seen similar cases with Low MRers in Survivals activating ALL the Life Support capsules, but if new people want the high end stuff they shouldn't be blocked by Mastery or by Junction (Mars to Phobos requires opening of a few Relics if I recall), but by what they have equipped (denial due to entire arsenal not meeting an old 'Conclave Rating' - which would be renamed and repurposed to prevent new Tenno who haven't even built, say, a full set of not-MK1/starter gear (Starter frame exempt) ). Or make it easier for them to reach the resources they need to craft better weapons, but not essentially the Meta (i.e: Kohm).

Parkour education:

Spoiler

As for parkour, there should be a 'Junction Challenge' which sends you into a new Void/Cephalon tileset where you have to complete a puzzle by using parkour as there is almost no floor (floors and walls disintegrate over time stood or moved on) and then use the moves to beat a unique Ayatan puzzle which simply rewards them with access to the next location.
This puzzle is different every time. Failure will have you retry the puzzle until you complete it.

Similar mentality that has been aimed at myself:

Spoiler

-Asked to uninstall Warframe numerous times.
-Shunned for using Limbo, despite me warning them about what I'm using Limbo for; his 2 and 4 together.
-Shunned for just playing.
-Shunned for resorting to Limbo in Conclave due to parkouring snipe-a-holics who can't be killed via guns because decent aims are a waste of time, since I'd be dead already.
-Toxic know-it-alls who, typically, may or may not be a higher Mastery than people like myself.

In the meantime, until Conclave Rating (for some PVE modes) and Stamina (to be determined for PVP so parkour/bunnyhopping is restrained to trim down on the sniper meta) are reinstalled, make friends, and play with them. Or ask members in the Clan if they're up for Void Fissures. Or do them alone.

[Noloic]

26 minutes ago, OriVerda said:

Well, you know, you could also teach them how to do things correctly.

I get what you're saying and yeah it's annoying when a new player who has yet to truly get a feel for the game rushes to get meta weaponry and weighs the team down but honestly, that's par for the course with MMO games. It's up to us as experienced players to show them the way!

That's what Lotus Guides are elected for. Casual or normal players don't always want to waste their time in instructing new players to how to run a late/end-game feature, nor they can repeat it hundred times because there are hundred different newbies showing up. Also because they couldn't run it correctly anyway for the reasons I explained above.

10 minutes ago, MetalNovaZ said:

I've been playing for 3 years now and I'm still < MR 20. Some players just like using their specific set for weapons they find fun.

This isn't the point. You at least know how to play. Which equipment set you prefer using isn't others' business.

16 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Restricting new players would only bring damage to the game, which will damage the trading economy and you as a consequence.

This isn't a big limitation to new players, actually, just think about it. They want Primes? They buy them from other players. That's rather a market-wise change, since new players will be forced to pay for those Equipments if that's what they really want and don't have time and will to expertise a little first.
Furthermore, they aren't limited in anything, since they shouldn't be in Void Fissures from the start because of their inexperience. They don't know how to play them, they can't be allowed to run them. As soon as they get more mastery in the game, they are allowed to play mid-game features.

If not Mastery Rank-limited, how about Quest-limited, just like Sorties? Like "complete Stolen Dreams in order to access Lith Void Fissures" etc.?

[Xekrin]

46 minutes ago, Noloic said:

Newbie players want everything, want powerful equipments, and want them immediately.

If MR had anything at all to do with being a newbie, I'd agree with you.  But it doesn't and I don't.  Yes, MR 0 to MR 3 perhaps are newbies more often than not.  But you can literally level up and max out every single frame and weapon in this game available to you without increasing MR.  

At most you'd only need MR6 to hit a good majority of weapons and frames and never have to increase MR. 

On the other side, you can leech level your gear and increase MR to 22 and not know a damned thing about the game at all.  Because shockingly enough the MR tests don't really bother anyone with difficulty.

Conclusion high MR does NOT equal experienced player.  Low MR does NOT equal newbie player.  Yes it is usually easy to tell based on MR, but locking content for high end players behind a low MR would solve nothing at all.

Or maybe players you play with are lazy, either way, If you don't like who you are playing with, find someone else to play with.

[TennoPain]

i think more stuff should be closed behind MR wall 

[Praxxor]

46 minutes ago, Noloic said:

They want Primes? They buy them from other players.

With what? The main and the most stable income of plat for new players IS prime farming.

[Shalath]

30 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

If MR had anything at all to do with being a newbie, I'd agree with you.  But it doesn't and I don't.  Yes, MR 0 to MR 3 perhaps are newbies more often than not.  But you can literally level up and max out every single frame and weapon in this game available to you without increasing MR.  

At most you'd only need MR6 to hit a good majority of weapons and frames and never have to increase MR. 

On the other side, you can leech level your gear and increase MR to 22 and not know a damned thing about the game at all.  Because shockingly enough the MR tests don't really bother anyone with difficulty.

Conclusion high MR does NOT equal experienced player.  Low MR does NOT equal newbie player.  Yes it is usually easy to tell based on MR, but locking content for high end players behind a low MR would solve nothing at all.

Or maybe players you play with are lazy, either way, If you don't like who you are playing with, find someone else to play with.

^ This

I've been playing for nearly 2 years now and am only MR9. I know my way around fissures and have been able to hold my own with much higher ranks since MR3-4. I mostly play solo but sometimes team up with a friend who is MR23 and guess who needs reviving most (hint, not me).

MR is mostly meaningless other than a way of gating gear. If you don't like randoms then don't PUG, it is that simple.

[-Temp0-]

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Well, you know, you could also teach them how to do things correctly.

Giving advice to people that didn't ask for it is kind of meh.

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and leech other players' Relics' rewards as well even though they did nothing during the mission but irritating other, elder players.

?

Those times where you could share keys are long gone. They either get rewards for using their own relic or they get nothing.

Who the hell cares about sortie and why you're even playing in a pub group? You can solo everything anyway.

[Fiftycentis]

1 hour ago, MetalNovaZ said:

I've been playing for 3 years now and I'm still < MR 20. Some players just like using their specific set for weapons they find fun

4 years and still have to reach mr16 because i don't like to use a weapon i don't like just for lvl up

but i think that the main problem of the topic is that WF is a great game, but it's not that much user friendly. I just had a friend of mine coming back on wf after a couple of years, and he didn't remembered how to lvl up mods and the game don't suggest that easily for newbies. All the information are given by the codex... the codex, a thing that 80% of the new player wouldn't ever notice if not for error.
I think that a well made codex with infos on missions type (idk how well made is atm, never read it) and some quote from Ordis for newbies after the vor prize quest would help a lot the newbie experience and also the veterans experience that find those newbies

and for mr imo it's only a number, a meaningless number in most of the case. It only limits you to not be allowed to use some weapons, sedna junction (and with it tww, sorties, and the quests that requires tww) and sedna junction is anyway mr5... that you can easily get in less than a month playing.

[hr18]

I'd rather play with those who don't kill everything in sight than with "elites" who act all high and mighty and rush through the mission...

I'm also crap but I've been able to run fissures (and sorties) just fine. Mostly alone though as ~everyone in recruit wants "only radiant relics".

 

I'm just curious how does one runs fissure correctly?

Other than kill stuff etc.

Edited July 1, 2017 by hr18

[Noloic]

To the ones who said : «If you don't like playing in public mode, go playing solo» I answer with this Link. In particular, I redirect you to this :

Spoiler

- Speaking of Fissures: Since solo players cannot choose the rewards their squad mates receive, we burn through many more relics trying to get those elusive rare components. Which means more trace farming as well. I do not mind it too much that coop play makes things easier, but this mechanic is bordering on frustration for me. I also do not mind the grind per se, but there's a point where it goes from "Well, I guess I need to run this five more times, it's okay" to "I ran that Defense mission for seven hours, then spent four more hours running Fissures to refine the few relics I actually wanted, and then I ran more Fissures to crack the relics, and all I have to show for is 100 ducats. Where's the hidden camera?" And I am not going for one specific thing here. I have an actual sheet of paper with about 30 components I can utilize, so it's not as if I am laser-focusing on one thing. I haven't lacked Ducats ever, but I have been trying to get the Vectis Prime for a few months now, without success (missing the stock, ironically).

I totally agree on that. I don't mind failing to get what I wanted, since I can still get Orokin Ducats from the trashes I get, but, man. That's annoying when you irradiate 15+ Relics just to get that damn Rare Component you're missing and you still get Commons (I feel your pain, talking about Vectis Prime - Stock, man, even though they fortunately (and ironically) degraded it being a Neo Uncommon Component, now).
I don't know how DE could change this annoyement, but all my love would go toward them if they helped solo players in that. Cooperative modes advantages Void Fissures way too much. Seriously. #IHatePeople

Give players a benefit in playing Void Fissures alone rather than in a team, and I'm done complaining, since I usually only play solo, Sorties included.

[Rubidubi]

MR8 is considered "low"? ... When I was MR5-6 I had enough experience/frames/equipment to do all those things and in certain cases even outplay people with better gear.

 

I have also seen plenty of MR8 players with way better arsenals, (I mean seriously, MK1's in that rank? Who the heck hasn't sold them by then?). I guess OP might just be doing hyperbole or whatever, but really, I get some can be a little scrubby, but restricting it for -everyone- is way too harsh.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Rubidubi

[Fiftycentis]

3 minutes ago, Rubidubi said:

MR8 is considered "low"? ... When I was MR8 I had enough experience/frames/equipment to do all those things and in certain cases even outplay people with better gear.

 

I have also seen plenty of MR8 players with way better arsenals, (I mean seriously, MK1's in that rank? Who the heck hasn't sold them by then?). I guess OP might just be doing hyperbole or whatever - but really, the entire thing can be solved by just not playing pubs.

atm for how the majority of players rush trougth the content mr8 is not that high in most of the cases

[-Temp0-]

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MR8 is considered "low"? 

Everything below like 20 is low, kapppa.

Quote

Give players a benefit in playing Void Fissures alone rather than in a team

That defeats the whole purpose of playing in a team.

And by joining random fissure misisons you don't exactly raise your chances to get the thing you WANT. Because 99% of players run low tier random relics. It's basically only good for farming formas and if there's no forma, ducats.

Doing sortie in a group gives you no benefits whatsoever and I believe only screws up you because it should give all the same reward and god knows how it calculates the odds of getting that exact item.

Edited July 1, 2017 by -Temp0-

[ashrah]

lot players dont wish to learn i had once in team mr21 player with trinity who claim she dont need any range mod at all...and i played with two mr 6.7 pluto  up to 15k cryo... they stay all time near pod... and do really nice job

[Noloic]

As I said,

2 hours ago, Noloic said:

If not a Mastery Rank limitation, let's say a planetary limit, like "players that cleared Ceres-Jupiter Junction may participate in Lith Void Fissures", "players that cleared Uranus-Neptune Junction may participate in Meso Void Fissures" and so on. Anyway, a limit is required, in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Noloic said:

If not Mastery Rank-limited, how about Quest-limited, just like Sorties? Like "complete Stolen Dreams in order to access Lith Void Fissures" etc.?

All these "MR isn't important" replies are getting old. Try suggesting a solution.

[-Temp0-]

9 minutes ago, ashrah said:

lot players dont wish to learn i had once in team mr21 player with trinity who claim she dont need any range mod at all...and i played with two mr 6.7 pluto  up to 15k cryo... they stay all time near pod... and do really nice job

Also this.

It's not even that they "don't want to learn", if you come at someone questioning what theyre doing you will sound like a #&#036;&amp;(% in majority of cases regardless of their mr or experience. Plus there's A LOT of things that players are uncertain of but some claim to know it even if they're wrong - most common examples being usefulness of Nekros in credit farming and the need to kill things with Chroma's 4 for the same farming.

There's shtton of players that have no clue what they're doing even in mr 20-24 playing raids. And they just don't care. Honestly playing in groups is a pain, unless you can solo the mission and you just need the rest 3 for the spawns. That way in something like excavation you just pick Frost and not care what the rest is doing, in survival you pick Wukong and so on.

 

Quote

Try suggesting a solution.

Suck it up and play alone. I've been doing it for ages and doing great. Only missions I don't solo are raids for obvious reasons and some sorties like defense/interception but I don't have problems in 99% of cases. Fissures I just run for formas and ducats with the same result.

Edited July 1, 2017 by -Temp0-

[Redeye]

On 01/07/2017 at 0:42 PM, Noloic said:

MK1-Lato and MK1-Skana

I.... uh. I guess it's been a long time since you started. These don't exist.

On 01/07/2017 at 0:42 PM, Noloic said:

limit the Void Fissures entry to MR8+ players only

This wouldn't make any sense in my opinion. Many of the good/meta weapons aren't prime ones (Atterax, Brakk, etc), and many warframes that are primed have laughable buffs (Frost's shields, for example), so it's not even about locking better stuff out of low MR players.

On 01/07/2017 at 0:42 PM, Noloic said:

If not a Mastery Rank limitation, let's say a planetary limit

I'd agree with that if that wasn't already the case. You can't access to pluto and Eris right away, and many Axi fissures spawn there. If you rushed out content, then chances are you didn't unlock all the nodes on the planet you have, so you'll probably miss out on many fissures cause you can't join them, unless you do so in recruitment chat. Even there, players can be picky on mastery rank, even if as many said before it means little to nothing, even in the MR0-3 range.

 

I can understand that kind of point of view, even if I don't think that way. However, the limitations you're asking for either have no purpose, or already exist, in my opinion. Then again, to each his own. My way of thinking is that if I enter a fissure and someone does a bad job on it regardless of his MR, I just carry on. If he afk's and dies doing so, I patiently wait for him to run out of revives and carry on. On the other hand, if I encounter a freshly new MR1 Braton Excalibur that asks me what he should do next in the game or how to play it, I answer kindly and try to give him as much info as I can without flooding him.

 

And of course, if I'm not in the mood, I just play solo, since past a certain level of stuff/game knowledge that doesn't even involve skill, the whole game is soloable.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Schtredeye
Random caps ftw. Word scrambling is fun.

[Chipputer]

On 7/1/2017 at 7:59 AM, Noloic said:

All these "MR isn't important" replies are getting old.

That's too bad, then, because it's flat out true.

The solution you're looking for is to use matchmaking tools to your advantage. If you aren't willing to do that then don't come around complaining about other players taking part in missions they have every right to.

[MetalNovaZ]

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Edited August 21 by MetalNovaZ