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Kei-Inc.

Harrow Systems and Defection

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TL;DR ver.: Forcing players to play a game mode for four rotations for a chance at a warframe part is stupid and bad game design. The mode is tedious to some and the defectors are weak and slow. This constant grind for new warframes is making me less and less excited for new ones because the grind after the quest is all I can see.

I have been farming harrow systems for three days now and they haven't dropped once. Putting harrow systems in defection was a dumb a idea. Here is why it is wrong:

1) Not everyone liked defection in the first place. I understand that some people like it but I feel like it has mixed feelings. So forcing players to play a game mode they don't enjoy just to get a Warframe part is really really bad game design and it just makes you frustrated.

2) The fact his systems drop on rotation C. So you are literally forcing them to play through every rotation for a chance to get his systems which links back to my first point. Either put it on a lower rotation or make it a definite drop on a certain amount of rotations like you did with limbo parts, or increase the drop chance.

3) The defectors are dumb, slow and easily killed. It takes forever to escort them from point to point and not only that, they do not scale. So, a toxic ancient/eximus will wipe them out completely if you're not careful.

Overall, I do not enjoy this game mode, I find it tedious and boring and the only way to win is to cc the hell out of everything. It takes too long and the systems never drop for me. I don't know what bad luck I have run into but forcing players to play a mode they don't like is just plain stupid. The game is no longer fun, it just becomes frustrating.

Side note: Having to farm Warframe parts after the quest is becoming really annoying and now I can no longer look forward to new quests because all I can see is the huge grind I will have to do to their parts. This really takes away from any enjoyment anyone would have had in the quest. Why can't we just get the parts in the quest like before?

 

 

Edit: kk this post is pointless, sorry for wasting your time an all that. I don't wanna get people angry so you know.

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i totally agreed with you, why even make a quest when we need to farm the parts later?. why they should'nt put the bp in the market if they want us to farm the parts?

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If you're having trouble, use a healer like Trinity or Oberon; they'll keep the defectors alive easily. You can also speed them up with Volt.

Having to farm for the parts is a little annoying, but I understand that DE wants people to diversify what gamemodes they play; putting new Warframe parts in their drop tables is a good way to do that.

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Honestly, the old system of acquiring new frames are better (e.g. mirage and limbo) compared to the current system (e.g. octavia and harrow).

I mean, they could just present new rewards in those game modes, or thin out where relics drop (instead of having like 8 relics in one rotation in one mission, make it about 2 or 3).

As it stands, the current system makes it look like a cash grab (Harrow's chassis and systems grind, Octavia's grind [forgot which part]).

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19 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Honestly, the old system of acquiring new frames are better (e.g. mirage and limbo) compared to the current system (e.g. octavia and harrow).

I mean, they could just present new rewards in those game modes, or thin out where relics drop (instead of having like 8 relics in one rotation in one mission, make it about 2 or 3).

As it stands, the current system makes it look like a cash grab (Harrow's chassis and systems grind, Octavia's grind [forgot which part]).

I second that.

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28 minutes ago, Brachion said:

If you're having trouble, use a healer like Trinity or Oberon; they'll keep the defectors alive easily. You can also speed them up with Volt.

Having to farm for the parts is a little annoying, but I understand that DE wants people to diversify what gamemodes they play; putting new Warframe parts in their drop tables is a good way to do that.

I know, oberon or trinity is almost required. Also, I get that, but rehashing old event levels isn't exactly 'diverse' or keeping the game interesting. Because a lot of people are burnt out from that event. And adding warframe parts to the drop tables is fine but don't make it the last rotation. Then, if you're just farming parts you can get it quick and if you enjoy the game mode you can keep playing.

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6 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

I know, oberon or trinity is almost required. Also, I get that, but rehashing old event levels isn't exactly 'diverse' or keeping the game interesting. Because a lot of people are burnt out from that event.

They are not "rehashing old event levels to keep the game interesting" they literally had the event to test the game mode before they just release it as a plain old mode. Survival was an event first too. Hell. Every other enemy or game mode in the game is introduced via event.

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44 minutes ago, Brachion said:

You can also speed them up with Volt.

No, you can't.

 

 

59 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

1) Not everyone liked defection in the first place.

This is not an argument. Not everyone likes killing bosses. Not everyone likes excavation (Limbo). Not everyone likes Rathuum (Saryn). Not everyone likes salvage (Nidus). Not everyone likes archwing (Atlas).

It's only natural that not everyone likes defection.

1 hour ago, Kei-Inc. said:

2) The fact his systems drop on rotation C.

So does Nidus.

So did tons of items back in the old void. And the game still lived and the players still played it.

1 hour ago, Kei-Inc. said:

3) The defectors are dumb, slow and easily killed.

Then post some constructive feedback, suggest changes. For now, your post is pointless.

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25 minutes ago, Raniu said:

-snip-

i wanted to write the same think, but then i read you comment
 

about the game mode, i like excavation, but still for me is a pain to get limbo because i don't want to be forced to do it while i got a small amount of credits hoping to find the part i need; the nidus one was a fun game mode imo, but with 2 different maps, the one everyone liked and the one everyone hated.

Warfarme is grind, if you don't like to grind warframe isn't the game for you. Back in the days there were no problems in waiting a C rotation during a mission for a rewards, and man, we also run more than one C rotation for t4 void survivals/defenses/interceptions, that mean 40 minute/waves vs lvl 70+ enemies (i don't remember the correct levels), while for harrow you can easily reach the first C rotation, exit and restart with low level enemies

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39 minutes ago, Raniu said:

No, you can't.

 

 

This is not an argument. Not everyone likes killing bosses. Not everyone likes excavation (Limbo). Not everyone likes Rathuum (Saryn). Not everyone likes salvage (Nidus). Not everyone likes archwing (Atlas).

It's only natural that not everyone likes defection.

So does Nidus.

So did tons of items back in the old void. And the game still lived and the players still played it.

Then post some constructive feedback, suggest changes. For now, your post is pointless.

You're right. I'm just frustrated. My bad.

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Agreed all the way. this mode is beyond constructive feedback. that's how bad it is. It's like trying to improve a turd. You can't really. You can dress it up, and polish it all you want. Still a turd. This mission is Unsalvagable. it is HORRENDOUS. terrible.

 

This game is already tedious busy work. This mission is just a line too far in my opinion. I'd rather stand defending a pod doing typical defense, than do defection. throw it in the trash now PLEASE. it is just bad. When I see this mission as an alert. it's an immediate turn off. I dread the day this mission is a sortie because that would SUCK. I'd rather do arch wing missions 100x over, or operator nonsense than this. and I can speculate as to why this mission came back.

It was a sneaky, tactical business move to encourage harrow platnium buys. You turn players off that defection mission. They'll buy it instead. GENIUS because I want to. That's a sign of how bad it is. and I'm not the only one thinking this. I was just in council chat. Clan chat.  hell I tried my hand at the defection mission and talking to my squad they said the same thing. We may argue over nerfs and whats op etc in this warframe community, but it seems unanimous that almost everyone agrees and the consensus is, this is a BAD mission type.

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They should have just stretched the quest out "a little bit" like with TWW into 3 or 4 parts and rewarded the bps at the end of each and make the frame bp either market, research, or keep as quest completion reward. I very much enjoyed the story for this frame but was way too short.

I do very much dislike the evacuate/defection mission.  It's not a bad idea but as previous comments indicate, they do not scale and are extremely easy to kill, their pathing is terrible and having to wait all the way to rotation c is ungodly aggravating.  Sometimes they'd run in a circle around or run right into a group of enemies and get stuck in the middle instead of following their buddies, or you for that matter.

I have horrible luck and having to wait that dam long for only a chance for it to drop is annoying as much as it is infuriating.  And yes, it took me a long &#! time to get nidus and octavia; did not enjoy those farms at all either.  It's stuff like this when designers do stuff like this to a great game that ruin them.  They had a great thing going with TWW and not since.  I wish designers would pay attention to gaming history; every game that's tried mediocre stunts like this tank: SWG, WoW, SWTOR, EQ, EQ2 to name a few.  They all started skimping on content, making them more a) a more single player grind from a story driven multiplayer aspect, or b) made them simplistic with barely any end game content, c) 75% or higher of in-game items are only available through micro transactions or any combination of those stunts.

Anyway, enough ranting.  They need to do something about the rotation drops/fix the mission itself or make the quest more epic-y and let it provide the bps, continuing with the TWW theme style story game play.

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I hate to do this but let me offer an alternative view to this situation.

I think what DE is trying to do is to allow players to farm for Warframes passively through playing the gamemodes when you start playing game. The reason its frustrating for us is because this is only frame we don't have so its only thing we are focused on. But if you play passively farm the mission do 2 or 3 runs then go off and do something you enjoy, you will find that farming the mission becomes less of pain.

I kinda like this new way of aquiring Warframes it diversifies how we aquire them making some boss fight rewards some quest rewards and now parts can be found in your regular old missions its just that they decided to add the parts in the newer missions.

But i do agree hate defection with a passion got my systems and i am never playing that game mode again not even when its a sortie done with that trash.

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Ahh, this thread/issue again. I'm pretty sure about 90%+ of the game's population agrees on this one. People didn't even like it in the first place when they pushed it out for the initial event. Yet here we are again with this game cancer mission type. This needs to go the way of archwing Def all ready.

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The Pacifism Defect was an interesting idea with the novel concept of protecting "civilians"...

Were it failde was that it took the most annoying type of mission in all videogames i.e. escort missions, and made it in a gamemode...

Extra salt added due to DE not fixing any of the problems already apparent during the event, idem for razorback armada and so on

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Totally agree, I don't even mind the defection mission type to much even if it can get tedious (what farming doesn't) but I've been trying to farm harrow since the first day he dropped, got chassis and neuroptics within about 2 hours of day 1 - it's now almost three weeks and 100+ defections later and there's been no systems. It was exactly the same for me with Nidus as well and I didn't even bother getting octavia because i didn't wanna face the grind. There needs to be better drop chances because right now I don't even really care if i get Harrow any more, the burnout has really kicked in and i don't have loads of time to play anyway so when I do get the chance I'm just grinding for something that could drop in the next run or i might have to do another 200 before it shows up.

Although I get what DE mean by "Diversifying" this is NOT DIVERSIFYING, ITS JUST A GIANT PAIN IN THE &#! AND TURNS ME OFF THE GAME.

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People who do not understand what bell curve distribution is should not be using RNG for loot rewards in games at all.

Those that do should make the effort to cap how far to the right that curve extends, when they decide they need the center moved in the same direction.

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On 7/23/2017 at 5:14 AM, 1EMPTYSPACE1 said:

Totally agree, I don't even mind the defection mission type to much even if it can get tedious (what farming doesn't) but I've been trying to farm harrow since the first day he dropped, got chassis and neuroptics within about 2 hours of day 1 - it's now almost three weeks and 100+ defections later and there's been no systems. It was exactly the same for me with Nidus as well and I didn't even bother getting octavia because i didn't wanna face the grind. There needs to be better drop chances because right now I don't even really care if i get Harrow any more, the burnout has really kicked in and i don't have loads of time to play anyway so when I do get the chance I'm just grinding for something that could drop in the next run or i might have to do another 200 before it shows up.

Although I get what DE mean by "Diversifying" this is NOT DIVERSIFYING, ITS JUST A GIANT PAIN IN THE &#! AND TURNS ME OFF THE GAME.

You are going to rotation C in defection right? it has an 11% drop rate, 100 defections later? You are either exaggerating or you aren't going to rotation C.

The grind for harrow systems isn't bad at all. I'm not a huge fan of defection and don't play it much for fun, but I had no issue with having to do it a few times for harrow. Nidus was more of a pain. I find that mode more boring, but hey you get the frame and then you don't have to do the ones you don't like anymore.

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a friend of mine just got it in his second rot C, while we made fun of kavor pattern and attitude (and still missing the helmet after 6 spies, same drop rate as systems)

anyway 11,28% drop rate is not bad at all, 1 in 10, and you can save 8 squads quite fast if you are in a good group.
imo equinox is worst to farm (even if drop chance for single piece should be a bit more than harrow chassis); or nidus, because you had to do the same mission everytime for all the parts, while with harrow only the systems are there.

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While I can understand the gripe, I would disagree that the grind is bad. Defection is annoying, sure, but it is easily cheesed with the correct setup. If you have nova and trinity to keep defectors alive and untouched, you can get to 18 groups without too much trouble.

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I would have to agree and disagree on both sides.  the biggest problem I have is newer players or people that just came back.  no one is farming those anymore.  no squads no nothing.  the grind yea is meant to be a grind which is fine but when you try grind it all day for days or can' find a party to do it with you get burnt out that or feeling like you are forced to buy it because there's no one there to help lol. I myself would want more story and harder content to get the parts instead of just grind but that' just me.  and prolly would be alot of work coding more story and stuff. 

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