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Wevi

Quickthining staggers are way more punishing than they should be. Better off not using it in some cases.

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it doesn't matter what frame you have it on, what your energy pool is like you can always equip quick thinking and it does come in handy when you're playing against end game content. but there is a downside to using this mod. You are prone to staggering when you're health touches zero and starts to drain energy. This might not sound like such a bad thing but if you manage to heal for a tiny bit again you can get staggered again when it touches zero again (getting stagger 2 times in a row: you can not move or attack). At that point you have depleted your energy pool are lying on the ground downed. Ive gotten staggered up to 4 times in a row one time. you might as well not be playing the game. just watching your warframe flail around until it finally dies. Anti stagger mods (there are like 2 if knockdown prevention counts as preventing stagger) and none of them work against quick thinking stagger.

 

Solutions:
temporary invulnerability for 3-4 seconds with a 3min cooldown
every time quick thinking is triggered consecutively with in a half second window your health is restored but your shields regen is cut in half for 10 seconds.

out of all the things that can interpret your game playing (hooked n dragged, knockdown, magnetized) staggering is the worse thing ever  put into this game and naturally it doesn't even happen often. I still remember from closed beta where grineer rollers would swarm and stun lock you if you didn't kill them in time.
Quick thinking is pretty much vital to all caster type frames and its not like there is any alternatives to give a tiny bit of survivability to caster frames.

 

 

 

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Bullet Jumping to avoid damage > Quick Thinking

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Quick Thinking is to save you from being sniped, not from hails of bullets. For that there's cover and physical evasion.

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On 7/5/2017 at 3:38 PM, Xiusa said:

Bullet Jumping to avoid damage > Quick Thinking

Except bullet jumping doesn't change their accuracy tables as much as it needs to. Bullet jumping just leaves you off the ground with less options than rolling or sliding. 

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17 minutes ago, Wevi said:


latest?cb=20150624022427

it doesn't matter what frame you have it on, what your energy pool is like you can always equip quick thinking and it does come in handy when you're playing against end game content. but there is a downside to using this mod. You are prone to staggering when you're health touches zero and starts to drain energy. This might not sound like such a bad thing but if you manage to heal for a tiny bit again you can get staggered again when it touches zero again (getting stagger 2 times in a row: you can not move or attack). At that point you have depleted your energy pool are lying on the ground downed. Ive gotten staggered up to 4 times in a row one time. you might as well not be playing the game. just watching your warframe flail around until it finally dies. Anti stagger mods (there are like 2 if knockdown prevention counts as preventing stagger) and none of them work against quick thinking stagger.

 

Solutions:
temporary invulnerability for 3-4 seconds with a 3min cooldown
every time quick thinking is triggered consecutively with in a half second window your health is restored but your shields regen is cut in half for 10 seconds.

out of all the things that can interpret your game playing (hooked n dragged, knockdown, magnetized) staggering is the worse thing ever  put into this game and naturally it doesn't even happen often. I still remember from closed beta where grineer rollers would swarm and stun lock you if you didn't kill them in time.
Quick thinking is pretty much vital to all caster type frames and its not like there is any alternatives to give a tiny bit of suitability to caster frames.

 

 

 

I agree it sucks, but really it shouldn't go from "this mod blows" to "this mod is now mandatory". If anything, it should be like a low budget Nidus' passive but with a cooldown on it. Having diminishing returns on it seems to be the right idea.

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i use QT a lot but u dont relay to much on defensive mods..  jump hide. run that will save u a lot...i saw lot ppl on mot get rekt cz they stand still dont hide...

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Honestly, The fact that quick thinking even staggers you at all is pretty bad. First, it doesn't tell you about it in the mod description, second, the point at which quick thinking triggers is probably the point at which you need to move more than ever. Not to mention the part where quick thinking doesn't even work right half the time; I've gone down on frames that have quick thinking with 2-300 energy left at times. It's such a terrible mod that I don't even bother using it on any frame except ivara.

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You would imagine it should not stagger you considering it says nothing about this  on the mod card, this is obviously important considering if it happens repeatedly because it's saving your life it puts you in a stun lock which is actually counterproductive.

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3 hours ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Honestly, The fact that quick thinking even staggers you at all is pretty bad. First, it doesn't tell you about it in the mod description, second, the point at which quick thinking triggers is probably the point at which you need to move more than ever. 

exactly..

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People have been complaining about Quick Thinking stagger lock for years... nothings ever been done. At this point I don't believe anything ever will be done. 

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3 hours ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

It's such a terrible mod that I don't even bother using it on any frame except ivara.

Even then it's a wasted slot.  Almost any other mod on her is better than QT.  

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The stagger's presence is an important balancing factor for the Quick Thinking mod.

Keep in mind that the stagger is the game's way of saying "For all intents and purposes, you should already be dead right now." and then realize that it's quite fair.  In addition, the stagger itself isn't a guaranteed entity.  If you properly time a dodge roll through a lethal damage source your HP will stop as 2 as per Quick Thinking's usual functionality, however since you are in a dodge roll you will not be staggered.  Some melee combos can also provide you with immunity to the stagger, if they're combos that have such traits as to make you knockdown/stun immune during their animations.

Quick Thinking is a possible get out of death free card, not an automatic anti-death forever button.  The mod won't let you safely facetank things without worry, but its mechanics do allow you to escape what should have been a guaranteed deadly situation as long as you (wait for it) think quickly and plan accordingly.

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Use Quick Thinking->run out of health->get stunned->take more damage while being stunned

I hate it when this happens :(

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12 hours ago, Xiusa said:

Bullet Jumping to avoid damage

 

12 hours ago, Manyc said:

cover and physical evasion.

 

12 hours ago, polarity said:

Someone needs to learn to bullet jump properly

 

12 hours ago, ashrah said:

 jump hide. run

Thats a stagger, rolling into a stagger and bullet jumping into a stagger.

Hiding and taking cover?. Are you telling me to slow down and take my time in a game about being fast and shooting things and chopping things in half?

Yes, quick thinking stagger IS a side effect for having your health touch zero and transfer on to your energy pool regardless of how consistent that maybe. But Im sure for it to keep happening within a short period of time was never the intended punishment for using this mod.

There are plenty of other things wrong with that mod

Before anything else I want the stagger to be readjusted to be a little more fair.

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15 hours ago, Wevi said:


latest?cb=20150624022427

it doesn't matter what frame you have it on, what your energy pool is like you can always equip quick thinking and it does come in handy when you're playing against end game content. but there is a downside to using this mod. You are prone to staggering when you're health touches zero and starts to drain energy. This might not sound like such a bad thing but if you manage to heal for a tiny bit again you can get staggered again when it touches zero again (getting stagger 2 times in a row: you can not move or attack). At that point you have depleted your energy pool are lying on the ground downed. Ive gotten staggered up to 4 times in a row one time. you might as well not be playing the game. just watching your warframe flail around until it finally dies. Anti stagger mods (there are like 2 if knockdown prevention counts as preventing stagger) and none of them work against quick thinking stagger.

 

Solutions:
temporary invulnerability for 3-4 seconds with a 3min cooldown
every time quick thinking is triggered consecutively with in a half second window your health is restored but your shields regen is cut in half for 10 seconds.

out of all the things that can interpret your game playing (hooked n dragged, knockdown, magnetized) staggering is the worse thing ever  put into this game and naturally it doesn't even happen often. I still remember from closed beta where grineer rollers would swarm and stun lock you if you didn't kill them in time.
Quick thinking is pretty much vital to all caster type frames and its not like there is any alternatives to give a tiny bit of suitability to caster frames.

 

 

 

I have to say that the stagger can be very bad. However you can roll out of it. It has to be timed well but the mechanic works fine for me and I wouldn't change it. At least it worked until the last update. Since then QT is completely bugged, and it does not work propely, hence you can get completely staggerlocked without a possibility to get out of. I hope they will fix it soon...

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Something's definitely changed with update 21, Quick Thinking is now truly useless. I play a lot of squishy frames in higher level content and have always relied on quick thinking to not drop dead from every angry glance. Since U21 it has become near impossible to survive with quick thinking.

The staggering seems to be much more aggressive and frequent, I've even been stagger locked by sapping ospreys in low level missions. I've often been completely unable to roll out of or recover from the repeat staggers. In JV I and others have been unable to do anything at all under staggers from vitals failing.

We ran LoR as we often do without hard CC and even though we're an experienced group we actually failed(!) due to the constant stagger lock deaths.

I can't say I've pinpointed what's changed exactly, it seems kind of random tbh, but it's bad. It has made playing the less tanky frames at higher levels an extremely frustrating experience.

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Rolling gets you out of the stagger every time (plus rolling has built-in damage reduction).

QT has been a life saver for me a number of times.  The only time it's ever been a detriment, is when I panic and forget I roll out of the stagger.

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1 minute ago, Tizodd said:

Rolling gets you out of the stagger every time (plus rolling has built-in damage reduction).

QT has been a life saver for me a number of times.  The only time it's ever been a detriment, is when I panic and forget I roll out of the stagger.

Have you tried this much since update 21? Because near everyone I've played with has been complaining about something being broken now. I've seen complains in my clan, in public groups and in RSB raids. "Quick Thinking is bugged" is a phrase going around a whole lot in the past few days, and I've sure had some very bad experiences with it since the moment the update dropped.

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37 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

Have you tried this much since update 21? Because near everyone I've played with has been complaining about something being broken now. I've seen complains in my clan, in public groups and in RSB raids. "Quick Thinking is bugged" is a phrase going around a whole lot in the past few days, and I've sure had some very bad experiences with it since the moment the update dropped.

Can't say that I have.  Hopefully they didn't stealth nerf it...unannounced stealth nerfs are a horrible way to do business.

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5 hours ago, Wevi said:

Thats a stagger, rolling into a stagger and bullet jumping into a stagger.

Hiding and taking cover?. Are you telling me to slow down and take my time in a game about being fast and shooting things and chopping things in half?

Yes, quick thinking stagger IS a side effect for having your health touch zero and transfer on to your energy pool regardless of how consistent that maybe. But Im sure for it to keep happening within a short period of time was never the intended punishment for using this mod.

There are plenty of other things wrong with that mod

Before anything else I want the stagger to be readjusted to be a little more fair.

You mean, in a game that also has Stealth & Tactical approaches?

Don't twist things into your advantage, when using one thing, use it whole.

Chopping things in half, which you weren't doing, you should have jumped vertically away from them, you rolled into more enemies.

You want to extend the use of QT? Then:      (didn't know it didn't affect QT)  Which enforces the idea that QT is acting like intended. It's meant to have
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Pain_Threshold                                     such stagger.

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1 minute ago, Manyc said:

You mean, in a game that also has Stealth & Tactical approaches?

Don't twist things into your advantage, when using one thing, use it whole.

Chopping things in half, which you weren't doing, you should have jumped vertically away from them, you rolled into more enemies.

You want to extend the use of QT? Then:
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Pain_Threshold

read the page before linking : "Does not affect Quick Thinking's stagger effect or Cleaving Whirlwind's Broken Bull combo."

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15 hours ago, Bobtm said:

The stagger's presence is an important balancing factor for the Quick Thinking mod.

Keep in mind that the stagger is the game's way of saying "For all intents and purposes, you should already be dead right now." and then realize that it's quite fair.  In addition, the stagger itself isn't a guaranteed entity.  If you properly time a dodge roll through a lethal damage source your HP will stop as 2 as per Quick Thinking's usual functionality, however since you are in a dodge roll you will not be staggered.  Some melee combos can also provide you with immunity to the stagger, if they're combos that have such traits as to make you knockdown/stun immune during their animations.

Quick Thinking is a possible get out of death free card, not an automatic anti-death forever button.  The mod won't let you safely facetank things without worry, but its mechanics do allow you to escape what should have been a guaranteed deadly situation as long as you (wait for it) think quickly and plan accordingly.

You make it sound like a deliberate,purposeful and intelligent design choice, when in reality its just a cheap gimmick to "balance" it when there are so many other ways to address its frequent use, putting a 10sec cooldown on it+a visual indicator so you know when it procs like a coloured border would work just as well, if not better.

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1 hour ago, Kezriak said:

You make it sound like a deliberate,purposeful and intelligent design choice, when in reality its just a cheap gimmick to "balance" it when there are so many other ways to address its frequent use, putting a 10sec cooldown on it+a visual indicator so you know when it procs like a coloured border would work just as well, if not better.

So you think it's fair to just be able to avoid all death forever, on a 10 second cooldown?

That is the effective definition of brokenly over-powered.

Comparatively speaking look at the other modding options that exist in this specific realm;  Phoenix Renewal & Savior Decoy

Oberon's Phoenix Renewal works squad-wide, and has a 90 second cooldown on its effect, while also requiring the Oberon in question to maintian their Renewal cast in order to ensure their allies' immunity from death.  Loki's Savior Decoy only works for him, however it still has a 60 second cooldown, and has the limit in that your Decoy must be alive for it to work.  In addition, since the Decoy draws enemy agro, it's not a guaranteed save.

Since Quick Thinking works across every single frame, it would invariably need to have a longer cooldown than these two augments do, in order to be appropriately balanced if it has no other limitation.  So rather than the outlandish 10 seconds, try maybe in the realm of 120 seconds or longer.

The current functionality on Quick Thinking goes in-line with the mod name.  If you're not caught unaware you can avoid the circumstance that should by all rights have killed you, in almost every circumstance.  If you're not keeping up with potential threats and get caught when not paying attention, the mod alone doesn't automatically save you every time.  It's called Quick Thinking, not Cheat Death.

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Quick thinking has been nerfed multiple times. People have been debating whether the staggers are fair or not for some time now, but it was absolutely a worthwhile way to deal with the huge disparity in EHP for different frames, especially with level 100 content now being normal, some frames need this mod to not drop dead every time a stray bullet comes their way.

The real issue is the stealth nerf or bug introduced with update 21. We wanted shield gating for squishy frames that get one shot at these levels, instead we got a nerf to the only thing that gave them a fighting chance without having to resort to cheesing everything.

If something isn't done about it then this is when I finally quit Warframe. I only play squishy frames in higher level content, and as of now this makes for an extremely frustrating game.

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