Quickthining staggers are way more punishing than they should be. Better off not using it in some cases.

[Dragazer]

The stagger is completely unnecessary and needs to to be removed completely.

There was a time where the stagger actually was needed, when QT+Rage immortality was a thing, but that has already been nerfed long ago. 

 

[P0Pz]

20 hours ago, Golmihr said:

Not sure. Never had a need to use QT on any of my frames and don't go down, no troll. I save my slot for important stuff like vitality and steel fiber or redirection. :P I figure QT is for people who don't know how to parkour during a fight so think they'll get one-shot no matter what so they equip no vit, steel or redirection, leaving lots of room for other mods. But maybe they fill them up with power str mods or something like that?

Lets make a lil trip within Warframes 'so called improving system' should we? ready?

 

The questions are:

How much improvings at each point can be made to increase "basic" given stats/points?

What are this 'current ability mods' ?

Why are abilities NOT able to create enough power to kill 'by theire own' from a certain point, called level x ? (Think twice)

Why are frames NOT able to withstand enough damage by theire own so they would not die by 1 hit of 1 single source of power?

What are Aug Mods?

What are Mods at all?

Besides Mods any other improving ways?

Tradeoffs; why, when and for what?

 

Do you still want to go deeper in and reveal up hidden points and move out of all the illusions arround you? Yes? Keep reading...

 

Mod; an 'hard item'. Needs to be placed on/in a slot, within a 'unit' item/content a 'user' can directly use (active ability) or within 'users unit(s)'. It needs to be placed to make it work and add what it promise on it. What 'can' a mod deliver: hard stats, side effects or random stats (×5). 

 

Therefore; Mods are exactly the same as: Stones/ Shards/ Crystals/ orwhatnot names other game Dev's gave those 'hard-items'. They add stats/side effects and also random stats while also need a slot to be placed to work. The same job to do InGame. Working with all 'units' mechanics. 

So what is the problem here?

Limited Slots and wrong used paths to place them including to hide, intented or not, 1-2 limited mods for each frame stats to improve it. Exc. Recharging speed of an stat, is 'support' and are called 'passive skills'. But do not improve the stats they 'help' directly to increase.

Vitality. 1 mod 100% adding vit and another mod adds 50% of its adding into vit. So in reality you get 1,5 mods/stones/shards/... to add/improve your vit stat at a frame in total. Thats it.

Does each added vit point add something as side-effect, like in other games 'each vit point adds 0,5 hp regen/s ? No. Just the vit point. 

Does each vit point work with another frame stat to improve something? Yes. Armor. Increasing the units EHP. Okay 

Besides vit + armor, any other stats working with each others? No. 

Only 2 stats together create something while they do not with any other frame stats and those others by theire own also can not create side effects to 'support the frame or other frame stats. They are blank numbers. 

What about energy aka mana, source of energy for 'unit' abilities? No. Same. Blank stats number. Each energy point does not create like in other games, for exc. 0,5 energy regen. They simply just stand to discripe the max energy/mana pool. Thats it.

Shields. No. Same. As energy, blank stat number discriping the max amount shield have.

• All Stats do not work with another stat or creating side effect(s) for its own or other stats. Just vit + armor. <~ first unbalancing.

 

Okay...but as squishy frame you can use frame slots to increase your survival path. No. Quick-thinking is a 'passive ability'

And?

Wrong path to be placed. If i use Qt instead 'stats increasing mods' i lose frame stats and ability stats. Stats i need to continoue to survive at first point. Each energy-point is ~ withstand + power source. Same for tanky frames. While those also can use Qt. So they add more substance to theire frame while squishy frames relay hard on each energy-point, tanky relay on health and armor. Squishy 1 withstand point tanky 3 withstand point while 2 work with each others.

But Qt helps you. Yes and no. Since it is placed inside the same limited spot for frame and abilities (10 slots) while the 3hp regen aura mod, also work for the health+armor ~ EHP combo witch can be 3 x 50hp = 150hp/sec regen...the 1 energy regen aura mod again works with nothing together so 1 stays 1, while 0.5 is withstand/s and 0.5 is power source. <~ Unbalance effect increases.

While i put in QT, i tradeoff my main survival stats and ability power. I take 1 mod slot which would or should increase my ability power. Yet leaving just 1 out reduces all my ability powers in one go to use 1 'passive ability point'.

Tanky frames relay more (or should) on 'hand weapons'. While squishy frame relay almost total using abilities. Less power, more energy used,...

The factor lvl x hits in already short before sortie lvl range. So it is possible to die by 1 hit from 1 enemy power source. Qt and all other 'passive abilities' supporting/helping the frame need to be on frame cerebrum (mental supports), frame system and frame carapace (physical withstands). There would be the right spots for those supporting mods correct placed in each seperated paths they are belonging to. But as they are now <~ unbalancing faktor nr.1 to include this 3(+1 =4)  mod typs into 1 spot.

Now..there are also Aug mods...which are also placed with frame stats mods, ability mods, passive abilities aaaand Aug Mods inside this 10 slot spot...bulked chaos <~ totaly flipping the balance within each frame but esp for squishy frames.

But it still doesn't end... those Ability-Mods are NO ability mods. 

Woot?

Aug mods and Ability mods follow a philosophy.

The philosophy is to offer different choices by different paths.

How ever, Augs; while a 'user' is choosing a path, he 'already' made a tradeoff to not use one of the other paths.

This IS THE tradeoff. He can not use : 'both powers' ~> Choose ~> Tradeoff ~> only 1 power path. With the current improving system, a 'user' can not improve or at least "hold" the power level to switch to another ability 'side-path'. Punished for choosing another ability path while on top influence all abilities negative and his frame...

An extra exilus/aug mod would not change much still a bandaid for a failing ability and frame improving system.

One of the reasons why 'not' all abilities can be used in higher lvls. So many limitings and tradeoffs that never 4 abilities can be improved at a time.

 

Ability Mods; Why do we use primary 'hand weapons' to 'kill' instead with abilities in high lvls? Result by lack of power within abilities.

But not hand weapons... they can and are primary focused.

NOT ur core ingame which is your frame...nope. Just handweapons can use plenty of mods just 'adding' positives..no tradeoffs!

Hell yes corrupted mods can be used too BUT can..not needed! And even then...only 1 negativ stat as tradeoff not all stats get a negative for placing it.

But heeeey any ability mod takes something and gives something..yaaa... all 'ability mods' are corrupted mods.

Imagine all hand weapons would only have corrupted mods..uuh...this is happening with abilities. No basic improvments for each ability possible. None.

It would be something different if every ability had its own passive skill tree to improve it + skill-cards with different side effects placed beside the ability icon and use 'this corrupted ability mods' as "addition"... then yes .. basic improvments still would hold up each ability at a certain range but not droping down until we need to say: this ability is useless in higher ranges.

Augs and ability mods are poisining WFs improving system... so much that your frame is a toy vs higher lvls. Intented or not.

DE failed to make deeper thoughts here. No new frame or weapon can keep up this illusion. Who cares? Abilities+ frame suck anyways why bother. Go take "High Tier" hand weapons, to cheese hole WF. (Another hidden fact, weapon tiers)

Yay..tradeoff double/trible for abilities are sooo needed to prevent cheesing... kapa

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

● This all together points out how bad and limited WF's improving system is and using mods placed at wrong paths are additional with to much and wrong placed tradeoffs, when already tradeoffs are done beforehand... Failing improving system, focused primary to do damage with 'hand weapons' thats it.

Factor level x , descripes when your frame is useless and abilities can't kill by theire own without supports of 'hand weapons'. Fail factor for WF's improving system.

Reason why both sides (enemy and frames) 1shoting each others, both lack withstanding. Reason we need so much CC in AoE. AoE damage...warframe got NO basics improvments for frames and abilities...but hand weapons...8-9 slots just for pure adding positive stats. Wow..

This and a lot more points are hidden behind a nice visual looking facade while looking behind it you will see all in front view offered, is a illusion of improving. Dead ends.

Qt is just a result of missing passive trees for each frame. A bandaid. Placed at the wrong path which further unbalance a frame. Made for squishy frames but offering tanky frames a 3rd withstanding. Failed over and over... a total mess. 

 

[Vohim]

[Fallen_Echo]

One day i will see this bug fixed.

Preferably sooner than fixing JV.

[Dragazer]

2 hours ago, Retepzednem said:

Lmao when you gotta use 1 mod to make the other properly functional...

[CpTKugelHagel]

i dunt know why but i dont get staggered at all i tested the whole thing and i didnt got staggered a single time

 

EDIT: i didnt took enough dmg for the stagger to trigger 

but i got stunlocked and died because i coulnd roll out of the stun lock so everyone who says "ugh just roll out of the stunlock" YOU ARE WRONG! you just die to fast to roll out

Edited July 29, 2017 by CpTKugelHagel

[TaylorsContraction]

I'

On 7/26/2017 at 6:22 AM, P0Pz said:

Lets make a lil trip within Warframes 'so called improving system' should we? ready?...

..Qt is just a result of missing passive trees for each frame. A bandaid. Placed at the wrong path which further unbalance a frame. Made for squishy frames but offering tanky frames a 3rd withstanding. Failed over and over... a total mess. 

 

While the English isn't the best, this guy explains everything wrong with Warframe's modding system.

There was a time I did not use QT because I hated this mod. I still do. Squish frames sacrifice their primary survival resource, energy, to withstand one shot kills. In the last two days alone, running sorties and floods I have found myself in situations where I survive what would have been a 1 shot kill, manage to roll away after the atrocious stagger, but guess what? My energy is now 8. I only have 8 energy left after surviving, so I cannot follow up with any defensive ability because I have no energy. QT is a must on squish frames, but honestly only 5% of the time does it actually save me from anything. More often than not, after surviving that 1-shot truck ramming, I have no energy and if the stagger doesn't get me, the enemies finish me off easy enough.

People talking about speed and parkour offering defense in this game, clearly do not play high lvl missions. If you are the host enemy accuracy is insane. It doesn't matter how much you parkour. I literally just jumped around an open area from wall to wall, never touching the ground, and i died about 10 times within seconds of a revive (this was during a parkour test run). Seriously host a game, go into a tier 3 sortie and hop around an army of grineer. They have no problems whatsoever gunning you in mid air, bullet jump and aim glide be damned. It's different for clients, it seems like latency gives clients a huge leeway when it comes to jumping around. Thing is, it's just lag saving the hosts, not so much parkour.

[Cytobel]

On 7/5/2017 at 0:34 PM, Wevi said:

*snip*  I still remember from closed beta where grineer rollers would swarm and stun lock you if you didn't kill them in time.  *snip*

Oh GOD I can't forget that trauma.

Knocked around over and over, balls coming from all sides, no escape.....

err...  Ummm...   Nope.  Leaving that as is.  It conveys the feeling rather well.  Still these new whippersnappers and theyr new-fangled Mesas and loud music 'Frames need a good ol' dose of the horrid ball love that Rollers used to dose us with.  It'd make for an interesting Weekend Event.

EDIT:  Yeah, QT needs a bit of utility adjustment, a bit of QoL lovin'.  Right now it's only prolonging the agony, not helping us in any way.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Cytobel

[6KIRA9]

On 07/07/2017 at 0:54 PM, Bobtm said:

There's a reason that this mod is in its current state and has remained mostly there aside bug fixes, for so long without being changed.  In terms of mechanics, Quick Thinking is in a really good spot right now.  It's very powerful, but sports and appropriate and fair drawback.  Bolstering survivability on squishy frames without actually giving them the ability to tank damage in any realistic way

Please note that we never said the stagger should be removed, what we're asking for is something to stop perma stagger, if you saw the GIF Wevl added he got 3 staggers in less than 5 secs !! when things like that happens you either die or end up with low energy that you can't cast any ability !! or if you're downed then revivied by a teammate, you'll also have no energy at all !!

if a function like a cooldown timer (for around 5 secs) of stagger immunity from this mod is added, it will no longer be an energy draining trap !! during the stagger you may loose quite a lot of energy but still better than perma stagger !!

for your statements about using enemy radar, unfortunatly playing the game with sounds is not an option for me, so the radar is my only option to see enemies behind walls, also doesn't matter to see what type of enemies there is, if there is a lot i just cast ult, if not then i go out and shoot, if it's a high lvl heavy unit then i shoot then roll to the other side and shoot again, also i never had a problem with heavy units at far distance, snipers maybe sometimes they get me during melee combo while i can't move, but heavy units never, just run to a direction then roll to the other rocket jump towards and he's yours, you don't even need abilities if he's alone, and i can speak all day about different ways and strategies to use a control class warframe, they have unlimited options to use...

but the problem we're talking is when you get trapped in a perma stagger situation, you have to do an objectif or help someone and then your invisibility or cc ability ends at the wrong time then before you cast a new one or jump out of there you get a stagger, then a second stagger, then you're dead !! in other words if you don't use QT you'll die too, but at least you'll get to keep your energy !! so this mod instead of helping squishy frames to survive a little longer, it'll just add another disadvantage (draining all energy) making them unable to use the only thing that makes them usefull and the only reason why they are squishy: their strong abilities!!

 

again, all we ask for is a stagger immunity from this mod after the first one, enemies stagger like impact and blast still can be effective, but not staggers from this mod over and over again !!

 

Note: sorry for the late response, i had a job interview and i just came back this morning.

[6KIRA9]

On 27/07/2017 at 4:56 PM, Dragazer said:

Lmao when you gotta use 1 mod to make the other properly functional...

you mean loose an extra mod slot ? T-T

[Mudfam]

Oh the insult, I just got stagger locked until dead by a detron crewman. It was like being in one of those nightmares where you're trying to run but you just won't move, and it never ends. I can't think of anything more infuriating and broken.

How is this still a thing? It's either a sneaky and truly horrendously conceived massive stealth nerf, which shouldn't be a thing; or it's a bug, that still hasn't been fixed after 13 hotfixes / udpates?!? WTF is going on here..?