Fixing Frost

[Ithloniel]

Frost is an amazing frame for two reasons:
 

1) High tanky stats

2) Snow Globe.

 

But!  No frame should be a one-trick pony!  Freeze sucks right now.  Ice Wave and Avalanche have zero late-game potential.  I have been trying to brainstorm some fixes, and here they are.  Feel free to add your own!  Let's get the ideas flowing! :)

 

Freeze:
It has been said time and again... make Freeze something that won't break when attacked.  Make damage and freeze time scale based on level.  Hell, just for balance sake, make enemies frozen take 50% less damage!  This will make it an ability for a singular purpose: temporary spot removal.  Hit a heavy, get it out of combat, kill the grunts, then focus on the heavy.

 

Ice Wave:
Get rid of it.  It is stupid.  Replacement? ... Common Cold: Cast common cold on an enemy and they begin to take cold damage over time.  When they die (from the skill or from something else), the cold spreads to infect two nearby enemies in a certain radius.  When they die?  Another two get infected for each one that died.  As the skill levels, the time common cold lasts increases, as does the radius of infection.

 

Snow Globe:
Keep it as is.  It is Frost's staple.

 

Avalanche:

Imagine Ice Wave... 3x as wide... moving slowly forward, envoloping enemies in it's wake.  It would move a farther distance based on mods like continuity.  Damage would be increased by Focus.  The damage should be the same is Avalanche is now.  Sure, the damage isn't great, but the slow movement of this version of Avalanche would have a chance of ticking the enemies' hitboxes more than once... that is a powerful trick.  Also, it slows everything directly in front of you, so open fire, 'frames!!

 

I'm making these suggestions because they would not only open up further utility options and worthwhile DPS for Frost, but also force Frost players to reconsider their current loadout.  Many of these skills have conflicting mod loudouts and it would be interesting to see what players would come up with.  Do you sacrifice your tanky stats for a mage?  Or do you drop your spellcasting for a worthwhile tank?  The choice is yours, Tenno...

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ithloniel

[Zhoyzu]

i do like some of these ideas. ima just stick with my banshee and Nyx though

[Erondight]

Frost has as much potential and nearly as much damage as every 'Caster' type frame in what you consider the late game. Thing about it is that your creating an artifical late game by thinking endless waves of defense mission enemies are what the game is actually about, when in reality the only thing the game has thats close to 'Endgame' is T3 Void missions.

In reality a subculture has developed out of the fans who like to think there actually 'Hardcore' because they can abuse certain abilities to get to defense levels beyond that DE planned for, and thats actually kinda pitiful in a way awesome in others.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jest3rX0

[Jugganatha]

Problem with Frost's attack skills are that 1) they do not ignore armor and 2) freeze element only receives a multiplier against shields. When that's fixed, Avalanche and Ice Wave become atleast workable. I like theses as potential candidates for the additional frame powers they were talking about.

[Cleesus]

i do like some of these ideas. ima just stick with my banshee and Nyx though

Gah, your catching up with me in forum posts!

But on topic, I agree that his first two skills could use some work. Hopefully he is next after Ember and Nyx.

[Ithloniel]

Frost has as much potential and nearly as much damage as every 'Caster' type frame in what you consider the late game. Thing about it is that your creating an artifical late game by thinking endless waves of defense mission enemies are what the game is actually about, when in reality the only thing the game has thats close to 'Endgame' is T3 Void missions.

In reality a subculture has developed out of the fans who like to think there actually 'Hardcore' because they can abuse certain abilities to get to defense levels beyond that DE planned for, and thats actually kinda pitiful in a way awesome in others.

 

I am thinking outside of defense for a lot of these.  In fact, I frequently solo play, but also love to do runs with my clanmates.  I find Frost is still a one-trick pony outside of defense.  While casting Avalanche or Ice Wave might get a better kill-count in multiplayer, casting Snow Globe and using a primary/secondary is just blatantly more effective.  It has reached the point where my frame only ever uses snowglobe on any given mission.  Freeze is just a waste of energy outside of solo, but in solo missions it isn't THAT bad.  DE is pushing to give each frame unique and useful abilities.  Unfortunately, Frost just feels generic outside of Snow Globe right now.  Avalanche is a lame version of Crush.  Ice Wave is a lame version of Slash Dash, without the forward movement.  Freeze is useless in multiplayer.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ithloniel

[CypressD]

I have a caster tank frost and my Ice Wave, 9/10 times will achieve highest damage percentage and kills in any given mission.

 

He's solid.

[Patrynio]

I don't really think that Frost needs that many changes.

1st skill is kind of useless aside from solo, that I can agree with. 2nd is fun to use, especially when you nail a row of enemies with it. However, his 4th skill is kind of uninspired (like many other 4th), so I'd love to see the Mega Ice Wave, as it would give him a unique skill and fun to use/aim : ) I don't know how would I change the 2nd though.

 

Nice thoughts, man.

[Crackpunch]

Ice Wave:

Get rid of it.  It is stupid.  Replacement? ... Common Cold: Cast common cold on an enemy and they begin to take cold damage over time.  When they die (from the skill or from something else), the cold spreads to infect two nearby enemies in a certain radius.  When they die?  Another two get infected for each one that died.  As the skill levels, the time common cold lasts increases, as does the radius of infection.

 

Seriously? Common Cold?

 

While we're being stupid, let's at least give that ability to Rhino, due to the fact that the common cold is the rhinovirus.

[Soopineer]

Disagree with the Ice Wave replacement, I really like it.
But I dislike the Freeze and Avalanche ablities.
A blast of ice shards dealing high damage and some freeze damage instead of Freeze.
And for Avalanche.. Rhino Stomp with massive radius of freeze damage (Frost Stomp lol)

[MXXVI]

I like Ice Wave too.

 

With Stretch and Focus, there's nothing so satisfying as to blast a mass of Infested with a single line of frosty spikes.

 

That being said, the damage could use some sort of buff at higher levels... or make the slow-down "cold" effect from it last much longer.

 

 

As for Freeze, I think the 50% damage tradeoff for an unbreakable version is a good idea. But my main problem with it isn't that it breaks... it's that it's so freaking hard to hit things with! I mean, not only does it not auto-aim, but it has travel time too.

 

I'd say buff Freeze by simply adding multiple projectiles at higher ranks (so 3 or 4 at max rank) with the extras shooting out in a 45 degree cone.

 

Alternatively, replace the projectile-based Freeze with a DnD-inspired "Cone of Cold" ability, that just blasts a 45 degree cone of... you know, cold.

 

 

Also, how about this for a possible Frost buff - make his cold effects stack. And by this I mean: if a mob already chilled by Ice Wave enters a Snowglobe, he freezes solid.

[Ithloniel]

It seems a lot of players like ice wave.  The primary issue with ice wave is it triggers too fast.  If it moved slower, it could tick the hitboxes more, which would mean more damage.  Also, a slower version of Ice Wave would also serve as a kind of trap if enemies approached it, all the while you could plant yourself in view of the ice wave to shoot at chilled enemies.

 

Avalanche needs work though.  It is, as Patrynio put it, uninspired.

As for freeze, perhaps if the enemy dies in the allotted time it "shatters", dealing cold damage to nearby enemies.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ithloniel

[CypressD]

Avalanched is really uninspired, I'll agree with that. But most AoE nuke attacks in this game are.
freeze is pretty much useless, but every warframe essentially has a useless skill anyway. No good build will have all of a WF's skills equipped.

 

And IMO, the only issue with Ice Wave is that it glitches a LOT. Sometimes it'll hit nobody, or go nowhere except a few feet in front of you.

[Ithloniel]

Avalanched is really uninspired, I'll agree with that. But most AoE nuke attacks in this game are.

freeze is pretty much useless, but every warframe essentially has a useless skill anyway. No good build will have all of a WF's skills equipped.

 

And IMO, the only issue with Ice Wave is that it glitches a LOT. Sometimes it'll hit nobody, or go nowhere except a few feet in front of you.

 

And power glitches fit into the category of a serious issue.  If this is common enough, it would seriously need a fix to be able to consider if ice wave needs some tweaking.  If this glitch is rare, my point about tweaking ice wave stands.

 

The reason I bring up these changes is not to say "Frost is IMBA and weak and his 1,2,and 4 skills are useless", but to bring up the subject of improving on what we all know could use some new inspiration.  Frames are currently getting some slight reimagining, from Mag and Volt, to the new ideas thrown in Nova.  The results have been interesting, and I hope this continues, because we all want interesting powers for ALL the frames.  DE is working hard to appeal to us, so I think we should support this forward motion and keep giving feedback/suggestions.

 

This thread seems to be discussing the same topic, for those who haven`t seen it yet:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/81452-how-bout-that-frost/

[SlimyWalrus]

 

Ice Wave:

Get rid of it.  It is stupid.  

NOOO

i love the way it looks, its one of my favorite skills ever. sure it sucks, but i dont want it removed

[Vaskadar]

NOOO

i love the way it looks, its one of my favorite skills ever. sure it sucks, but i dont want it removed

OP Said: Ice Wave - get rid of it.

Are you s#!tting me? Ice wave is incredibly useful for thinning out high-level mooks. That's what it's great for. It's (imo) incredible vs. corpus. More so than Volt's powers because of its effects. It also will kill most ospreys in one hit, making mopping up the enemies later on far easier. If anything it's great, but focused CC. You can deal upwards of 2000 damage per tick versus corpus moas.

Ice Wave is surprisingly more efficient than Avalanche at CC.

You shouldn't be using Frost versus Grineer, but rather enemies that group up like Corpus and Infested. I've done countless Phorid runs (pre-u9) with Frost, and the journey to Phorid requires that you kill a metric ton of infested.

Yes, it's not that effective against level 70 enemies, but really, not much (aside from Chaos, and mind control) actually is.

This update sorta forces DE to rebalance all the warframe's powers to be useful on Pluto or Tower 3. Seems that people believe that should be the metric for usefulness.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Vaskadar

[FunkyreFresh]

Freeze:

It has been said time and again... make Freeze something that won't break when attacked.  Make damage and freeze time scale based on level.  Hell, just for balance sake, make enemies frozen take 50% less damage!  This will make it an ability for a singular purpose: temporary spot removal.  Hit a heavy, get it out of combat, kill the grunts, then focus on the heavy.

 

Making it a hitscan ability with a small radius would look better than the silly snowball and play much better than it's current form. And rename it Cold Snap or something because Freeze is a very boring name.

 

Avalanche:

Imagine Ice Wave... 3x as wide... moving slowly forward, envoloping enemies in it's wake.  It would move a farther distance based on mods like continuity.  Damage would be increased by Focus.  The damage should be the same is Avalanche is now.  Sure, the damage isn't great, but the slow movement of this version of Avalanche would have a chance of ticking the enemies' hitboxes more than once... that is a powerful trick.  Also, it slows everything directly in front of you, so open fire, 'frames!!

 

 Too similar to Ice Wave IMO, and I really like Ice Wave too. How about instead ice spikes that radiate outward and impale enemies in the air for awhile? Increasing the level could increase duration that enemies are disabled. Also the animation for Avalanche just looks silly.

[MacKillicutty]

Sense my post was completely ignored ill just post my ideas here...

 

Make him more into a mage instead of a tank. For instance less armor and a higher base energy pool

 

1 power is more like a javelin of ice. Much like dread or paris. It can penetrate multiple enemies in a straight line after a short cast time. With each rank adding a javelin.

 

2 power is now an exosleleton of Ice armor

 for the whole team

 

3 perfect doesnt need to be changed

 

4 keeping with the theme of space. What if you summoned a comet? (comets are composed mostly of ice) It would be a high damage AoE skillshot. Additionally the impact would push out anything it didnt kill and make them prone briefly.

 

Edit: forgot to mention the 2 ice armor would be for the whole team

Edited July 18, 2013 by sanokillzone

[Ithloniel]

Sense my post was completely ignored ill just post my ideas here...

 

Make him more into a mage instead of a tank. For instance less armor and a higher base energy pool

 

1 power is more like a javelin of ice. Much like dread or paris. It can penetrate multiple enemies in a straight line after a short cast time. With each rank adding a javelin.

 

2 power is now an exosleleton of Ice armor

 

3 perfect doesnt need to be changed

 

4 keeping with the theme of space. What if you summoned a comet? (comets are composed mostly of ice) It would be a high damage AoE skillshot. Additionally the impact would push out anything it didnt kill and make them prone briefly.

 

I think that comet idea is actually pretty original! :)  Cool idea.  While I like it, I don't feel it is that practical for a tenno, but then again, giant "particles" of antimatter flying around a Warframe makes about as much sense, so what the hell, right?

 

The exoskeleton is a staple for ice magic, but it has already been done by Ember with Overheat, and Rhino with Iron Skin.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Ithloniel

[Blaknight]

i think freeze and avalanche should be combined like rhinos new rhino stomp is. freeze ahould be replaced with some sort of radial ice buff that gives you and your team's weapons the ice element. snow globe is fine. ice wave is also fine. frost does seem to do less damage at higher levels but hey thats whats weapons are for. 

 

or freeze can stay the same but it becomes sort of like an ice grenade. the target hit and any in (close) proximity become frozen like it is now and an ice patch maybe 3 meters wide is created on the impact zone which slows like ice wave and snow globe do. 

[Ithloniel]

Are you s#!tting me? Ice wave is incredibly useful for thinning out high-level mooks. That's what it's great for. It's (imo) incredible vs. corpus. More so than Volt's powers because of its effects. It also will kill most ospreys in one hit, making mopping up the enemies later on far easier. If anything it's great, but focused CC. You can deal upwards of 2000 damage per tick versus corpus moas.

Ice Wave is surprisingly more efficient than Avalanche at CC.

You shouldn't be using Frost versus Grineer, but rather enemies that group up like Corpus and Infested. I've done countless Phorid runs (pre-u9) with Frost, and the journey to Phorid requires that you kill a metric ton of infested.

Yes, it's not that effective against level 70 enemies, but really, not much (aside from Chaos, and mind control) actually is.

This update sorta forces DE to rebalance all the warframe's powers to be useful on Pluto or Tower 3. Seems that people believe that should be the metric for usefulness.

 

 

 

[OP's version of Avalanche is] too similar to Ice Wave IMO, and I really like Ice Wave too. How about instead ice spikes that radiate outward and impale enemies in the air for awhile? Increasing the level could increase duration that enemies are disabled. Also the animation for Avalanche just looks silly.

 

 

 Avalanche's name doesn't really make sense, it's more like an AOE blizzard. It should be a massive version of ice wave.

 

My idea for Avalanche is basically a stronger version of Ice Wave.  In fact, it is the version you kind of asked for in a different thread :)

 

I said "get rid of Ice Wave" not because it is bad, but because it is the wrong number for the ability.  It should be number 4, and it should be wayyyyy better.  Avalanche as it is, has a name that makes very little sense given what the ability actually does, and the ability sucks at that.  I like ice wave, I just don't think it should be a no.2 skill.  And the name Avalanche makes way more sense for it.

 

[Oizen]

Ice wave is useful?

 

I mean.... It kinda... looks okay? I like the idea but it does almost nothing to anything.

[Crackpunch]

Ice wave was incredibly useful for those defense missions during the last weekend event (you know the one with the 'rare' mods available after defeating something like 25 waves).

 

With max stretch, flow and streamline, I was able to clear huge amounts of enemies, while still having enough energy for snow globes.

[Flackenstien]

That's exactly what Freeze needs, and exactly how it should be used.

It doesn't even need to damage the enemy, just keep it still while you get your bearings or revive a teammate.

Its duration should increase with each upgrade.

 

Also, Ice Wave & Avalanche are fine for me, perfect even, but I guess I'm only rank 20-something, so I'm not exactly facing higher tier enemies.

It kinda makes me not want to progress, lols.

Then again, higher level enemies shouldn't be done in so easily as hitting 4 (or the mouse wheel, in my case).

Edited July 18, 2013 by Flackenstien

[Oizen]

Ice wave was incredibly useful for those defense missions during the last weekend event (you know the one with the 'rare' mods available after defeating something like 25 waves).

 

With max stretch, flow and streamline, I was able to clear huge amounts of enemies, while still having enough energy for snow globes.

I have the Squall Hat and maxed focus, along with all the frost skills maxed. (500 dmg x 45% dmg boost) This is the strongest it is currently possible to make ice wave.

 

You had to have been doing a very low level defense mission for it to be worth using.

 

Ice wave looses the ability to kill anything with max upgrades fairly fast in high level defense. Stretch is actually bad for frost

Edited July 18, 2013 by Oizen