Please don't nerf Trin. And let me tell you why.

[Nirrel]

1 hour ago, Mudfam said:

snip

 

18 minutes ago, W3zeer said:

snip

Very well said. I myself play Trin a lot, but I only go EV if some specific need arise (LoR) otherwise I play link/bless build and while it's tanky, you have to work hard for it. You have to keep your 3 and 4 constantly up if not you are as good as dead in sorties and floods. In order to do that you need tons of energy and with a high duration build that's not easy at all. You have to use your 2 and kill fast and repeat it. If you want to maximize your duration and use an augment you will have to rely on QT completely resulting in even more need for energy. If you want to maximize your support you will use vazarin wich means you cannot have energy regen. On floods and sortie 3 sometimes you will even need pizzas because you wont have enough to cast 2. Doesn't seem so overpowered to me.

 

[DreamsmithJane]

4 hours ago, Mudfam said:

This may be true for a pure EV build, but if you play any other Trinity she's a whole lot more hard work than Harrow. Harrow can cast his 2 and 3 once, then spend the next couple of minutes playing normally. Trinity needs to recast her (expensive) 3 and 4 every 20 seconds or so, and just to keep that up she needs to cast EV on several targets inbetween. This leaves her very little time to do anything else. She spends all her time just trying to keep her buffs up. If you build and play such a Trinity you'll see how true this is.

This is a bit of a mischaracterization. For one thing, if you do get "a couple of minutes" out of Harrow's Penance and Thurible, it's because you destroyed your range with Narrow Minded, so you're not sharing much energy, your Condemn has no reach, and you skipped both Transient Fortitude and Fleeting expertise. So you either have low strength or low efficiency, which means you spend a really long time channeling Thurible with each cast and your Penance buffs are probably underwhelming. I get 54 seconds from Thurible and up to 68 seconds per cast from Penance (but usually less). Condemn is 9.33 seconds, so if anything lives that long, I have to recast. Covenant is 9.33 seconds of invulnerability and 18.66 seconds of crit buff, each of which requires a shift in gameplay. And it costs the same as Blessing, so if I want to use it with any frequency, I'd better keep Thurible running, right? Thurible and Penance have their own costs, including regular use of Condemn (thank DE that it's one-handed) to feed Penance, so I need to make sure I'm capitalizing on the energy kickback while it's active.

So there is really not much time when I am not thinking about which powers are active, when they will expire, and when I will have the chance/need to reactivate them. It's not really honest to suggest that "playing normally" takes no effort, anyway. What is "normal" gameplay depends on which frame, gear, and focus you bring, and they all have their challenges. As Harrow, I need to not only manage my buffs, but also be regularly scoring kills, preferably headshots, or I can't do anything. And Covenant can't be recast while the crit buff is active, so I can't just spam 4 to stay alive. And I need to be careful with timing when I activate Penance so I don't get splatted. Nothing about Harrow is fire-and-forget.

On the other hand, the reason I've become so attracted to Harrow is that I'm really uncomfortable with how much time Trinity spends locked in casting animations. I would not characterize it as "hard work" (playing Trinity is downright leisurely in my experience), but it does take up a lot of time. I have to wonder, though: does your BLink Trinity really need "several" EV casts to fuel Link and Blessing? With Streamline, 2, 3, and 4 have a combined cost of ~158 energy. One cast should pay for that. Or am I missing something?

Either way, I think Trinity needs a rework (no, that doesn't mean nerf) on the same order that Nekros got. There is way too much 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, and very little reason to ever press 1 at all. Those both need to be looked at.

[Chipputer]

14 hours ago, Mudfam said:

This may be true for a pure EV build, but if you play any other Trinity she's a whole lot more hard work than Harrow

No. She's not.

See guy? Mark with EV. Press 3 on cooldown. Press 4 when necessary or on cooldown (player's choice/squad's preference).

I don't play an EV Trinity. I play a blessing/link build. Trying to say she's any amount of hard work is laughable.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Chipputer

[SolarDwagon]

On 16/07/2017 at 11:01 AM, Hap-muhr said:

I say let's start by nerfing the truly OP Warframes first and then collect the tears to make Trinity truly overpowered.

And yes, I'm looking at all those other Warframes with excellent CC, invulnerability and essentially infinite health.

Except Trinity makes all of the above so much worse and so much more powerful.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:05 PM, (PS4)bullet1351 said:

"2 trins?"

Yeah, because you never need more than one.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Shes boring, cuz shes weak. Her one needs to kill stuff. She can tank good, i build for blessing and link... Not ev... But she cant kill anything which is crap.

[Xaero]

On 09.07.2017 at 3:39 AM, _A_Illuminati_A_ said:

Let me direct your attention to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6m4772/leave_trinity_alone/

As far as I'm concerned , Vaminos (Venn2) is more important than any of you guys. He knows what he's talking about, maybe you should listen to him.

 

I see zero arguments there. It just sounds like "we are too bad to play without Trinity's help, so she can't be nerfed".

And I'm not saying EV needs to be nerfed/reworked. The whole energy management system needs a global rework first. But you start a topic and give no serious feedback. You give a link to the post with zero arguments on why EV should be kept untouched. It just doesn't make your suggestion look good.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ksaero

[Naftal]

Combine WoL and EV and only give energy to players who damage those targets with weapons (not abilities).

Give her new #2 ability.

[Cimbro94]

My idea on changing trynity? Make all her abilities castable on movement...

Make her 1 like the same, but upon taking damage the target release a heal wave with let's say 20 meter radius for allies in range (kind of radial med tower)

Then take energy vampire and make it a toggle ability that restore energy over time with damage that scales with enemy level (like it is now) so you can put an enemy into well of life, then cast your EV on it so it provides a med tower that restore health and energy to allies in range...then you have link for yourself and blessing for instahealing the team...

And yes it might be a nerf, but i would suggest to make blessing not recastable... So allies would be suggested to stand near the enemy with well of life to get health back while keeping the damage reduction.

[Mudfam]

10 hours ago, Chipputer said:

No. She's not.

See guy? Mark with EV. Press 3 on cooldown. Press 4 when necessary or on cooldown (player's choice/squad's preference).

I don't play an EV Trinity. I play a blessing/link build. Trying to say she's any amount of hard work is laughable.

I'm not talking about difficulty, I'm talking about work. No need to resort to intentionally misinterpreting me.

As I clearly stated, you need to frequently recast 3 and 4, and to do that you need to EV several targets inbetween, which depending on yout squad may not be so easy to find. It's a chore. Playing Harrow is much more laid back simply because most of the time you can stay mobile and play the game rather than just constantly working to maintain your short lived buffs.

With Harrow you have long lasting buffs that then provide energy and healing passively, he also has excellent cheap and fast CC that provides shields too. There are great synergies between his abilities, but they're not forced, each is great on its own and you can do whatever you want circumstantially. Mind, natural talent is still a must on Harrow IMO.

I consider the kind of EV builds people are complaining about entirely irrelevant outside of LoR, and really it's LoR that should be fixed. Perhaps Trinity could get a proper rework or rebalance in general that makes her abilities sustainable, but just talking about nerfing her as she is outright murder.

[Mousarchy]

Honestly. Just replace the mechanics of 1 and 2. make well of life pulse HP in an area. and energy vampire require the target to be shot to regain energy.
then we can buff blessing back to what it should/used to be wre it was an actual powerful skill that required ell timing to make god mode.
that way we can remove the issue of inf energy for no reason (because fact is we have INF energy and NO CD in a game with mass murder power and MASSIVE CC capabilities. having no limits is op. why do you think LOR is so easy with 1 or 2 trin and 2 vaub.) and can have a strong energy regain power that requires the minimum work of shooting a guy a few times.
(compensate the change a bit by reducing trinity casting times mabey even removing the leg lock)

also 4k hours and i can tell you. inf energy is an issue. if it wasnt then why do people require it for anything 'difficult' otherwise we might as well just have inf ammo and no power costs.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ordosan

[Vafthrudnir]

19 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Shes boring, cuz shes weak. Her one needs to kill stuff.

Her 2 deals true damage which scales on health, which is op already since it works on some bosses, if you use it at the last moment of her 1 it'll deal way more damage.

Edited July 18, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Borg1611]

11 hours ago, Ordosan said:

also 4k hours and i can tell you. inf energy is an issue. if it wasnt then why do people require it for anything 'difficult' otherwise we might as well just have inf ammo and no power costs.

What "difficult" content requires infinite energy? Zero content I've ever done in this game requires Trinity or infinite energy. A lot of it is very easy without Trinity at all. I used to do some harder content with her as a 99% DR buffer, which was neat since it let you do things without CC, effectively replacing various gimmicks with a different gimmick, but apparently some gimmicks are allowed and others are not, so that was nerfed into oblivion. People are mentioning some trial/raid that less than 1% of the games population has done or will ever bother doing needs EV, but that sounds like a raid design failure more than an EV issue.  

I'm not sure pointing out infinite ammo as an argument is great either since infinite ammo wouldn't really be overpowered in a game where ammo is hardly ever an issue to begin with. At high enough levels you'd just start to resort to infinite scaling abilities or finishers if you could no longer kill with guns. Some people would probably even prefer the Overwatch style infinite ammo system. I also think having to design around their archaic energy system is a huge limitation in frame design. Some frames could be designed without energy at all or with a completely different resource system and likely be more fun and interesting because of it. They already have sort of tested the waters with Nidus in terms of using a different resource system. He's the step between being designed completely around energy as a resource and not having it at all. I'd love it if they took another step either in a new frame or in a re-work and tried out an energyless system or even a rapidly regenerating energy with a smaller pool (sort of like a rogue), or a frame based on short cooldowns instead of resources. 

We had a sortie assassination Raptor the other day. I used to think that was one of the most difficult sorties. I went in with Octavia. Waited for zenurik to turn on just in-case. Went to his room invisible. Was never hit with anything. Dropped a mallet and used my 4. He killed himself faster than I typically can kill him with weapons even with only 70% strength. I used to do Raptor sorties with Wukong or Nidus using weapons which took probably 5x as long as it took me to do it with Octavia (though I probably could have used better weapon loadouts). Was the easiest time I've ever had doing it. I did not need "infinite" energy, though a tiny bit of baseline energy regen makes most frames feel a lot better (hint to the devs that baseline energy regen would work better in this game than orbs).

If I had wanted to do it in a group, a Trinity could have let me stack power strength and it would have died even faster, but she certainly wouldn't be remotely necessary. Mallet scales with damage being done to it. Strength would make it charge faster, but I can already do it faster than I could with most other frames solo. If I wanted to do it in a group I probably still wouldn't bother specifically trying to get into a group with a Trinity because it just wouldn't be that important. I could also just bring more damage dealing frames, or you could go in with 4 Oberon's and spam smite. Who needs Trinity on Oberon(s) when the higher portion of smites damage is coming from the 35% health scaling that isn't even affected by power strength? You could bring negative duration Trinity's as a damage source, but that wouldn't be about the energy and she's rather frail with that build (though I guess they could all be permanently invisible if they came with an Octavia). 

The day before that(ish) we had a sortie assassination Sargas Ruk. I soloed that with Nidus. Not sure why I would need a Trinity for that since I can tank him in his face with his link and would have zero use for EV (unless EV magically bypassed having to shoot spots and killed him, but then it wouldn't be about energy).

I typically don't even do the limited energy affix sorties with her. She can make things more fun for some frames, but it's not remotely necessary or even the easiest way to do them. 

I do think she needs some changes. Not because she's overpowered, but because she's old, outdated and clunky.

TLDR: infinite energy isn't required for 99.99% of the content in the game (if not 100%) and can also be done easily without Trinity at all

Edited July 18, 2017 by Borg1611

[Voltage]

13 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I'm not talking about difficulty, I'm talking about work. No need to resort to intentionally misinterpreting me.

As I clearly stated, you need to frequently recast 3 and 4, and to do that you need to EV several targets inbetween, which depending on yout squad may not be so easy to find. It's a chore. Playing Harrow is much more laid back simply because most of the time you can stay mobile and play the game rather than just constantly working to maintain your short lived buffs.

With Harrow you have long lasting buffs that then provide energy and healing passively, he also has excellent cheap and fast CC that provides shields too. There are great synergies between his abilities, but they're not forced, each is great on its own and you can do whatever you want circumstantially. Mind, natural talent is still a must on Harrow IMO.

I consider the kind of EV builds people are complaining about entirely irrelevant outside of LoR, and really it's LoR that should be fixed. Perhaps Trinity could get a proper rework or rebalance in general that makes her abilities sustainable, but just talking about nerfing her as she is outright murder.

I love all your points, but please explain "LoR should be fixed". In what way? Trinity is a nice frame to have to use abilities without thought, but removing Trinity would just move to using pads which I actually had to do 2 hours ago (both EV and Bless DCed, so I was forced into a 4 man and all we had were 2 volts and 2 Nova using pads galor). If by fix you mean change the way it works with needing immense ability cast? If this is what you mean then I think we would have to change how the game works. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Her one needs to suck the life outta enemies and produce an aura that weakens and reduces health every second to any enemies around her. That would be sick.

[Mousarchy]

1 hour ago, Borg1611 said:

What "difficult" content requires infinite energy? Zero content I've ever done in this game requires Trinity or infinite energy. A lot of it is very easy without Trinity at all. I used to do some harder content with her as a 99% DR buffer, which was neat since it let you do things without CC, effectively replacing various gimmicks with a different gimmick, but apparently some gimmicks are allowed and others are not, so that was nerfed into oblivion. People are mentioning some trial/raid that less than 1% of the games population has done or will ever bother doing needs EV, but that sounds like a raid design failure more than an EV issue.  

I'm not sure pointing out infinite ammo as an argument is great either since infinite ammo wouldn't really be overpowered in a game where ammo is hardly ever an issue to begin with. At high enough levels you'd just start to resort to infinite scaling abilities or finishers if you could no longer kill with guns. Some people would probably even prefer the Overwatch style infinite ammo system. I also think having to design around their archaic energy system is a huge limitation in frame design. Some frames could be designed without energy at all or with a completely different resource system and likely be more fun and interesting because of it. They already have sort of tested the waters with Nidus in terms of using a different resource system. He's the step between being designed completely around energy as a resource and not having it at all. I'd love it if they took another step either in a new frame or in a re-work and tried out an energyless system or even a rapidly regenerating energy with a smaller pool (sort of like a rogue), or a frame based on short cooldowns instead of resources. 

We had a sortie assassination Raptor the other day. I used to think that was one of the most difficult sorties. I went in with Octavia. Waited for zenurik to turn on just in-case. Went to his room invisible. Was never hit with anything. Dropped a mallet and used my 4. He killed himself faster than I typically can kill him with weapons even with only 70% strength. I used to do Raptor sorties with Wukong or Nidus using weapons which took probably 5x as long as it took me to do it with Octavia (though I probably could have used better weapon loadouts). Was the easiest time I've ever had doing it. I did not need "infinite" energy, though a tiny bit of baseline energy regen makes most frames feel a lot better (hint to the devs that baseline energy regen would work better in this game than orbs).

If I had wanted to do it in a group, a Trinity could have let me stack power strength and it would have died even faster, but she certainly wouldn't be remotely necessary. Mallet scales with damage being done to it. Strength would make it charge faster, but I can already do it faster than I could with most other frames solo. If I wanted to do it in a group I probably still wouldn't bother specifically trying to get into a group with a Trinity because it just wouldn't be that important. I could also just bring more damage dealing frames, or you could go in with 4 Oberon's and spam smite. Who needs Trinity on Oberon(s) when the higher portion of smites damage is coming from the 35% health scaling that isn't even affected by power strength? You could bring negative duration Trinity's as a damage source, but that wouldn't be about the energy and she's rather frail with that build (though I guess they could all be permanently invisible if they came with an Octavia). 

The day before that(ish) we had a sortie assassination Sargas Ruk. I soloed that with Nidus. Not sure why I would need a Trinity for that since I can tank him in his face with his link and would have zero use for EV (unless EV magically bypassed having to shoot spots and killed him, but then it wouldn't be about energy).

I typically don't even do the limited energy affix sorties with her. She can make things more fun for some frames, but it's not remotely necessary or even the easiest way to do them. 

I do think she needs some changes. Not because she's overpowered, but because she's old, outdated and clunky.

TLDR: infinite energy isn't required for 99.99% of the content in the game (if not 100%) and can also be done easily without Trinity at all

congrats. you know how to use a perma stealth octavia on a frame who has basically the equivalent of inf energy. also that has more to say with octavia inf scaling 1 and the insanity that is her 3.
also difficult was in airquotes. most content isnt difficult and with proper management of energy you can do most content. but as soon as you say "here you have no energy issues" you end up being able to use an inf ammount of mass CC (have you SEEN vaub with 30 bastiells?) or just return to mass spamming 4 again. turning us into a 1 button game.
The fact that DE wont put CD on things means we need to have energy as our limitations. but trinity still nullifies that makeing the 'hard' <<---quotes. you see those?<< content as trivial as solorcharts.

[Borg1611]

53 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

congrats. you know how to use a perma stealth octavia on a frame who has basically the equivalent of inf energy. also that has more to say with octavia inf scaling 1 and the insanity that is her 3.

Congrats, you overlooked numerous other overpowered abilities and mechanics when making an absurd claim that infinite energy was "required for difficult content," quotes around diffuclt or hard or not, you can't argue that infinite energy is required for 99.99% of the content in the game. So far we've only seen anyone claim ONE instance of a trial that apparently requires massive amounts of energy. 

Also, Octavia doesn't have infinite energy at all, she just doesn't have any reason to use that much energy. That was a point I tried to make earlier about many frames. Many frames simply don't have the desire to spam any abilities because that just serves no purpose for them. Choosing not to use energy as fast as you can when you have zenurik or inspiration etc doesn't mean you have "infinite energy." You're just not spending your energy... you're using it only as much as you need to. Even Trinity doesn't truly have infinite energy as you can in some situations be forced below the EV casting threshold if things go badly, but EV is a lot closer to infinite than zenurik/inspiration/limbo's realm. 

53 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

"here you have no energy issues" you end up being able to use an inf ammount of mass CC

You can easily perma CC a massive area without EV. In what situation would you ever need to spam CC as fast as you possibly could with endless energy? Why would you need 30 bastilles? It's pointless overkill that serves no real purpose whatsoever. You can easily CC more than you need to without EV, so being able to spam that CC endlessly with EV is irrelevant because you've already reached the point where you don't need more without it. 

53 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

The fact that DE wont put CD on things means we need to have energy as our limitations. but trinity still nullifies that makeing the 'hard' <<---quotes. you see those?<< content as trivial as solorcharts.

No, that content is made trivial by plenty of other mechanics that can make things trivial without infinite energy. You admit this yourself essentially in your first comment about Octavia, then somehow mentally block out that fact and then reiterate that EV trivializes the content even though it's clear that the content can be trivialized without her. 

Perma invulnerability can trivialize content and does not require infinite energy.

Perma invisibility can trivialize content and does not require infinite energy.

Infinite scaling damage, which is coming in more forms on more frames as they are reviewed, does not require infinite energy. Even something like Oberon's smite can be spammed quite a lot with high efficiency and zenurik (which is far from infinite, it's just enough to cast a lot). 

Mass AoE CC can be done without infinite energy. 

Opening up mobs to finishers and stabbing them with  a covert lethality dagger (or using fatal teleport) does not require infinite energy. 

Nidus can trivialize plenty of content by having 90% DR, an invulnerability proc and self-sustain his own energy without Trinity or other energy sources

Even some of the things people have pointed out in this thread that are supposedly super overpowered because of EV can do more than enough without EV. Banshee can get plenty of sonars up without EV. You can't stand there and spam it endlessly with high power strength without Trinity/consumables, but how many sonar spots do you really need and how much of a multiplier? Equinox can do massive damage with maim without high power strength due to the way it functions. EV Trinity lets you build it up faster, but not so much so that it's really necessary at any level. A mob can only be completely dead. If EV is just letting you spam something that's overkill, why are we supposed to be outraged about how powerful EV is? 

People seem to forget that Trinity takes up one of your parties slots. She's contributing to your groups power by giving the other people in the group the chance to become more powerful rather than bringing that power in a direct way. So if she's just standing around feeding people energy (yes I realize EV feeds some damage to maim as well if you're doing that sort of group), that's a spot on your team that could have been another damage buff or damage dealer. Your group likely could have done the same content with the same basic comp, different builds and a different 4th. 

Again, 99.99% of the content in the game can be trivialized in multiple ways by multiple frames without Trinity or EV (or energy consumables, or harrow). This becomes more the case as they review frames and add new ones. Everyone trying to pretend otherwise is kidding themselves. When you realize this to be true, the "OMG INFINITE ENERGY IS OVEPOWERED" rhetoric just sounds ridiculous. Overpowered at what? That thing we can all do easily without infinite energy anyway? So why am I supposed to be convinced that infinite energy is overpowered when I can easily do everything without it? I used to use Trinity all the time, then I got bored of her and realized I never really needed her to begin with, especially not after the clunky Zenurik bandaid to the outdated energy system. Zenurik isn't remotely close to "infinite" yet provides many builds with plenty of energy. You can't endlessly spam things, but most things you wouldn't want to spam anyway. In many groups she's just a free consumable that lets the group get into their grove faster at the start of a game.

edit: Also going to link this video since this guy is a fairly popular warframe content creator and comments on Trinity briefly (at 5m 26 seconds if the link doesn't take you there):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnYG6twVX5U&feature=youtu.be&t=5m26s

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Borg1611

[EinheriarJudith]

what is this? harrow gets released now people who think trin is boring wants her to be like harrow and people who think harrow is not as op as trinity wants him to be trinity. trinity is fine for the most part. all i want is well of life to pulse like ev and have link get duration boost and shes good to go.

[SolarDwagon]

17 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I'm not talking about difficulty, I'm talking about work. No need to resort to intentionally misinterpreting me.

As I clearly stated, you need to frequently recast 3 and 4, and to do that you need to EV several targets inbetween, which depending on yout squad may not be so easy to find. It's a chore. Playing Harrow is much more laid back simply because most of the time you can stay mobile and play the game rather than just constantly working to maintain your short lived buffs.

With Harrow you have long lasting buffs that then provide energy and healing passively, he also has excellent cheap and fast CC that provides shields too. There are great synergies between his abilities, but they're not forced, each is great on its own and you can do whatever you want circumstantially. Mind, natural talent is still a must on Harrow IMO.

I consider the kind of EV builds people are complaining about entirely irrelevant outside of LoR, and really it's LoR that should be fixed. Perhaps Trinity could get a proper rework or rebalance in general that makes her abilities sustainable, but just talking about nerfing her as she is outright murder.

If you need to care about survivability on Trin then the rest of your group isn't working.
Once again, Trin in herself isn't terrible. Trin in any group situation is utterly stupid.

Also, in nearly every mission type, if you can't find enemies, you don't need EV.

Edited July 18, 2017 by SolarDwagon

[Mudfam]

7 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I love all your points, but please explain "LoR should be fixed". In what way? Trinity is a nice frame to have to use abilities without thought, but removing Trinity would just move to using pads which I actually had to do 2 hours ago (both EV and Bless DCed, so I was forced into a 4 man and all we had were 2 volts and 2 Nova using pads galor). If by fix you mean change the way it works with needing immense ability cast? If this is what you mean then I think we would have to change how the game works. 

I just mean how many objectives are tied to rapidly expending massive amounts of energy, especially in nightmare where pads drain energy. Even with an EV trin I often end up using a bunch of pizzas.

 

3 hours ago, SolarDwagon said:

If you need to care about survivability on Trin then the rest of your group isn't working.
Once again, Trin in herself isn't terrible. Trin in any group situation is utterly stupid.

Also, in nearly every mission type, if you can't find enemies, you don't need EV.

Mostly these days I play Trinity when I run a public kuva flood and depending on who you get they might need a babysitter to pick them up off the floor: Trinity. Regardless of the dynamics of the mission, you can't afford to be caught with your buffs down or the next time you try to EV you'll just get one shotted.

[SolarDwagon]

4 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

I just mean how many objectives are tied to rapidly expending massive amounts of energy, especially in nightmare where pads drain energy. Even with an EV trin I often end up using a bunch of pizzas.

 

Mostly these days I play Trinity when I run a public kuva flood and depending on who you get they might need a babysitter to pick them up off the floor: Trinity. Regardless of the dynamics of the mission, you can't afford to be caught with your buffs down or the next time you try to EV you'll just get one shotted.

Why did they put those in? *cough*Trinity*cough*.
I mean seriously, at the point in the game those were introduced Zenurik wasn't even a thing, and I'm not even sure large pads were. They were put in purely to combat Trinity.

2 things then
1) Wrong build if you're running pure minduration EV for that. Which says something in itself that Trin can just change build to make another mission basically effortless.
2) The fact you immediately think of Trin as the babysitter for people who have no idea of what they're doing in one of the hardest mission types found on the starmap, and really shouldn't be there, shows exactly how dominant she is.

[Mudfam]

1 minute ago, SolarDwagon said:

Why did they put those in? *cough*Trinity*cough*.
I mean seriously, at the point in the game those were introduced Zenurik wasn't even a thing, and I'm not even sure large pads were. They were put in purely to combat Trinity.

2 things then
1) Wrong build if you're running pure minduration EV for that. Which says something in itself that Trin can just change build to make another mission basically effortless.
2) The fact you immediately think of Trin as the babysitter for people who have no idea of what they're doing in one of the hardest mission types found on the starmap, and really shouldn't be there, shows exactly how dominant she is.

Like I said I never play EV trin, and I don't see any need for that build outside of LoR. This thread is about EV being overpowered, and my point was only that it's not very useful in general. I can't think of any frames that can't do what they do without an EV if built correctly.

I play trin because she can heal, provide damage reduction and survive while reviving someone, the only reason I use EV at all is because I need an inordinate amount energy to do the former. I could mostly do the same thing with many other frames, it would just be carrying more than supporting. Ultimately it's just my personal preference. If I'm playing with at least one friend I know I can choose any frame and the mission will always go smoothly.

[UltraRareSloth]

how about make EV have fix duration to negate instant infinite energy.

 

imo infinite energy not OP when solo

i think it's fine for full support frame to OP with group tho

[Voltage]

12 hours ago, UltraRareSloth said:

how about make EV have fix duration to negate instant infinite energy.

 

imo infinite energy not OP when solo

i think it's fine for full support frame to OP with group tho

But how is it OP? The game is balanced around spam just ask Nox, Lech Kril, Nullifiers, Scrambus/Comba, Bursas, Manics etc. EV is not OP when you can do the exact same with Energy Pads or Zenurik or Arcane Energize. 

Trinity does not need a nerf, forums people just cry nerf when something is useful. There is no imbalance if DE continues to design enemies and levels as they are doing now.

Edited July 19, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 7/8/2017 at 4:32 PM, Silvus-Sol said:

I have played for well over 2,000 hours. I say she is OP.

*drops mic*

I've played over 2.300 hours. Trinity has had a massive history of constant nerfs, she is perfect where she is. Ask the rest of the community who has been here since before U10