Please don't nerf Trin. And let me tell you why.

[WindigoTG]

I don't get this obsession with Trinity. 

Doesn't matter if infinite energy is OP or not, as long as infinite pizzas and Zenurik exist, Trinity is not only completely irrelevant, but just totally useless waste of a frame at all. She's pretty much but a glorified player-controlled pizza.

Edited July 12, 2017 by WindigoTP

[MASTERFEAR_NRH]

On 7/9/2017 at 4:55 AM, _A_Illuminati_A_ said:

Trinity is very balanced.
She has already been nerfed. And infinite energy is NOT OverPowered. This is not debatable, anyone who has played the game for over 1000 hours can tell you that infinite energy is not OP.

Please reconsider any decisions you make to nerf her energy giving potential.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6m4772/leave_trinity_alone/

 

I agree with with this.

I am using trinity since i was playing this game and its my most used frame.

A frame with no cc ability and full of support ability can't be count as OP.

Now a days most of the frames are OP. And giving more energy to squad or healing the squad not make a frame OP.  

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, WindigoTP said:

I don't get this obsession with Trinity. 

Doesn't matter if infinite energy is OP or not, as long as infinite pizzas and Zenurik exist, Trinity is not only completely irrelevant, but just totally useless waste of a frame at all. She's pretty much but a glorified player-controlled pizza.

Well, if you would have read pretty much any of the pro-nerf responses, you would have noticed that they also say that pizzas are also broken and that energy as a whole is broken. 

 

Big picture. 

[WindigoTG]

Just now, DrBorris said:

Well, if you would have read pretty much any of the pro-nerf responses, you would have noticed that they also say that pizzas are also broken and that energy as a whole is broken. 

 

Big picture. 

Yes. That's exactly why I don't get this obsession. The game as a whole is one giant broken mess, but everyone is just worried about Trinity.

[DrBorris]

Just now, WindigoTP said:

Yes. That's exactly why I don't get this obsession. The game as a whole is one giant broken mess, but everyone is just worried about Trinity.

Because trinity is what enables much of the mess. Trinity, in her own way, is the manifestation of what is wrong with the balance in Warframe. It is quite remarkable honestly that in some way Trinity, one Warframe, is able to exploit most of the core issues of the game.

 

People are not "just worried about Trinity", the comment you quoted literally said that people are worried about quite a few things, just because there is a discussion centered around Trinity it does not mean that every other issue is being ignore. To assume that is borderline insulting to those having a discussion about Trinity... assume the best of someone's intelligence. 

 

I am not one for complacency, I would much rather try and fix underlying problems and their enablers than say "Eh, it's fine as it is". 

[WindigoTG]

Just now, DrBorris said:

I am not one for complacency, I would much rather try and fix underlying problems and their enablers than say "Eh, it's fine as it is". 

Underlying problems is exactly what needs solving. And "This is OP, That is OP. Nerf This, Nerf That" has nothing to do with the solution.

The solution must start with DE hiring a competent gamedesigner, who would thought out a clear and solid concept of what the entire game is supposed to be and how is it supposed to work.

 

Just to scratch the surface: are we supposed to give our all, show our best game, to avoid being 1HKO'd and come out on top, or are we supposed to feel godly powerfull as we dinastyworrioring our way through a horde of these puny genetic degenerates that dare to stand in our way? Are we supposed to make tactical decisions, or are we supposed to utilise our frames' abilities - the major thing that makes each of them, as well as a whole game, to stang out from the crowd - to theit fullest potential?

Is energy system broken because it allows us to turn our frames in the legendary unstopable force that has turned the tides back in the Old War, or is it broken because to achieve this we need the use of Trinity, pizzas and Zenurik?

 

So yeah, with this bigger picture in mind, I say people are just worried about Trinity.

[DrBorris]

1 minute ago, WindigoTP said:

So yeah, with this bigger picture in mind, I say people are just worried about Trinity.

But... they're not. This is not a "nerf Trinity" thread, this is a person who thinks that anyone who thinks Trinity is OP is crazy thread. If I think that Trinity is OP and that her being on a team breaks what little balance the game holds on to, despite the game being also broke without her, I am going to come to this thread and say "Yes, Trinity is OP". Sure, I may also say some other things about energy economy yada yada, but the main point of any response to an OP about "Don't nerf Trinity" is going to talk about Trinity... and that is what most of the people who disagree with the OP have done.

 

You are putting words in other people's mounts, or more accurately you are ignoring them. People are saying that the whole think is borked, but as the OP of the thread made Trinity the center of discussion, so of course the discussion IN THIS THREAD is going to be centered on Trinity. 

 

Oh, and this... is a bit ridiculous.

8 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

The solution must start with DE hiring a competent gamedesigner, who would thought out a clear and solid concept of what the entire game is supposed to be and how is it supposed to work.

If you were a game developer and you were given the option to either mess with the foundations of your game and risk completely losing your player base -or- keeping it safe and trying to adjust what exists, you can't possibly tell me that every "competent" game designer will risk it, especially with such a head-strong and whiny community as this. 

You know what happened last time DE decided to for-go content to rework what we had? That was SotR... how well did that go over exactly?

[WindigoTG]

The Broken-NotBroken discussion is irrelevant without the point of reference for how things are supposed to work in the first place.

 

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

You know what happened last time DE decided to for-go content to rework what we had? That was SotR... how well did that go over exactly?

A year down the line the game is thriving and we've just got quite a few of very exciting announcements for the future. So... everything went pretty well.

[Rozellia]

 

I, a Trin main, will die of laughter when you guys get the nerf you want, but its worse than you expected. :^)

Nightmare bombs anyone?

OT: Considering DE, most likely IF they nerf EV it will be utter trash. due to history repeats itself:

when people were complaining about Bless:
( Why would you complain about bless i have no clue but you know those select few that expect Dark Souls difficulty in a casual pve/pve game)

it got nerfed it wasnt a horrible nerf but trin did take a blow. thing is everyone is saying :" oh she isnt on the radar" 

dont underestimate those mice, they got other things nerfed into oblivion (mag) just from complainin'

Literally all im seeing is : " Oh man im getting heals/damage reduction AND Energy this is SUCH a yuuuuuuuugeee inconvenience nerf her please"
like my guy,  why does she need an additional nerf?

IF ANYTHING FIX WELL OF LIFE WHAT EVEN IS THAT SKILL 

Tl;DR : Trin is fine where she is and doesnt need a nerf, people barely even play trin  besides for raids and high level exi/ sorties. Rework energy system and we will be fine.
not to mention doesnt harrow head shots recover like 130+ energy- requires skill but for me hitting headshots is easier than pressing 2 :^) 
 

 

On 10/07/2017 at 9:17 PM, SenorClipClop said:

Trinity doesn't need to be made weaker, she just needs to be made a little more involved.

Trinity, is a support frame, meaning she is there to support not to be a dps frame like lol? you're aware we can still use primary/secondaries  correct- that seems involved to me . VERY few games where support is offensive, and in warframe our offensive support is considered to be : Oberon/Holyframe. that being said,  she decides whether you live, or die -
Keep in mind its how you play trin that matters not how others play her. what  other people do with their frame doesnt/shouldnt concern you lol. nor should it justify a nerf just because- 

[Vafthrudnir]

Yeah rebalance Trinity please, this means nerf.

[Rozellia]

1 hour ago, giovanniluca said:

Yeah rebalance Trinity please, this means nerf.

incased you missed my poke at DE with: " Considering  De"

any re-balance they do includes unnecessary nerfs, this is a given, and id love to sit here and list the " Re-balances" that destroyed some frames utility and improved others but ill pass.
 where have you been? under rhinos bum?

[Vafthrudnir]

3 minutes ago, Rozellia said:

incased you missed my poke at DE with: " Considering  De"

any re-balance they do includes unnecessary nerfs, this is a given, and id love to sit here and list the " Re-balances" that destroyed some frames utility and improved others but ill pass.
 where have you been? under rhinos bum?

As if I cared to read 9 pages all at once, anyway Trinity needs help to prevent having it's users getting hand problems by all the energy vampire spam, a solution could be to reverse her 1 and 2 mechanics so the energy gain it's a "life steal".

[Rozellia]

1 hour ago, giovanniluca said:

As if I cared to read 9 pages all at once, anyway Trinity needs help to prevent having it's users getting hand problems by all the energy vampire spam, a solution could be to reverse her 1 and 2 mechanics so the energy gain it's a "life steal".

Thats not really the problem, as i said previously: rework energy system period. because note its not only trinity, there is zenurik, pizza spam, trinity isnt as relevant when you bring those in the picture- 

[Vafthrudnir]

4 minutes ago, Rozellia said:

Thats not really the problem, as i said previously: rework energy system period. because note its not only trinity, there is zenurik, pizza spam, trinity isnt as relevant when you bring those in the picture- 

Focuses are getting changed with plains of eidolon, and I don't think DE will change the energy system so easily.

[motorfirebox]

On 7/8/2017 at 7:25 PM, _A_Illuminati_A_ said:

Trinity is very balanced.
She has already been nerfed. And infinite energy is NOT OverPowered. This is not debatable, anyone who has played the game for over 1000 hours can tell you that infinite energy is not OP.

Please reconsider any decisions you make to nerf her energy giving potential.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6m4772/leave_trinity_alone/

 

Hate to break it to you, but I'm at 1385 hours and I think Trin is broken. Like the guy said at Tennocon, I don't necessarily think her raw output needs to be reduced, but I think she needs to work harder for it. Speaking as someone who has Trin as his most-played frame and Trin Prime as his 4th-most, Trinity is a zero-skill frame. You hit the buttons in order, and that's basically it.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

12 minutes ago, Rozellia said:

Thats not really the problem, as i said previously: rework energy system period. because note its not only trinity, there is zenurik, pizza spam, trinity isnt as relevant when you bring those in the picture- 

While it's not the only problem, Trinity is clearly at the top of it all and she would require the attention of the Rework Team before the whole Energy system is looked upon.

Zenurik first requires you to level up the Focus system, which is soon to be changed. Zenurik might not be a problem in the future.
Pizza spam still requires you to put resources into it, it's give and take, the energy rate forces you into staying in a spot and defending it until you got the pizza's worth.
Trinity requires little effort to hit 100-600 energy per salve of 3 seconds for the entire team on a range of 25+ meters.

Edited July 14, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[DrBorris]

12 hours ago, Rozellia said:

Trinity, is a support frame, meaning she is there to support not to be a dps frame like lol? you're aware we can still use primary/secondaries  correct- that seems involved to me . VERY few games where support is offensive, and in warframe our offensive support is considered to be : Oberon/Holyframe. that being said,  she decides whether you live, or die -
Keep in mind its how you play trin that matters not how others play her. what  other people do with their frame doesnt/shouldnt concern you lol. nor should it justify a nerf just because- 

I am missing where anyone said Trinity had to be "offensive" in order to support, all I see is more engaged. But it is okay, I can understand that when you don't actually think about a concept it is hard to understand it. So let's take a second and think about it. 

 

Oberon has to be a front-man tank to support his team, Harrow has to support his team to support his team (This one perplexes me too, but it is a niche, I will give it that), Equinox has to do a weird balancing act to support her team, Trinity should have some sort of gameplay interaction in order to support her team besides pushing two buttons every so often. 

IMO an ability set where Trinity almost plays a game within the game of sorts in order to support her team would be a good option. Have her not be worried with killing enemies or tanking damage, but have her comboing abilities and using good spatial awareness in order to get the absurd power out of her kit.

[SolarDwagon]

9 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Hate to break it to you, but I'm at 1385 hours and I think Trin is broken. Like the guy said at Tennocon, I don't necessarily think her raw output needs to be reduced, but I think she needs to work harder for it. Speaking as someone who has Trin as his most-played frame and Trin Prime as his 4th-most, Trinity is a zero-skill frame. You hit the buttons in order, and that's basically it.

I'm at 2.1k. Trinity *is* broken.

[SenorClipClop]

13 hours ago, Rozellia said:

Trinity, is a support frame, meaning she is there to support not to be a dps frame like lol? you're aware we can still use primary/secondaries  correct- that seems involved to me . VERY few games where support is offensive, and in warframe our offensive support is considered to be : Oberon/Holyframe. that being said,  she decides whether you live, or die -

I'm well aware that Trinity can do other things in the mission, but she never has any incentive to. If you read all of my post that you replied to, you'd know that I play her as a melee off-tank. My issue is that to be optimally effective as a support, all she needs to do is hit two buttons. I do know of healers in other games who only need to cast their powers, but they are balanced by the fact that they are incredibly frail, can't protect themselves, can't deal damage, and die without the help of the squad. Since Trinity can bring weapons and has access to two layers of significant damage reduction, these trade-offs do not exist for her.

So like I said, she does not need to be made less effective, she just need to be made less effortless. The "stay alive" game that other supportive healers need to play is a non-issue for Trinity. Furthermore (and more my point), she takes her Energy and, for no effort, multiplies it for herself and the whole squad. She creates effectively infinite energy with ease, instantly, for free. Players must wait for Zenurik and even then it only regens 1 energy per second; Energy pizzas can give out a decent amount of energy, but they are single-use consumables and have long pauses between the regen. But as long as an EV-tagged enemy is killed, Trinity can supply a squad with tons of energy instantaneously for no sacrifice (beyond not having that 50 Energy for a couple seconds), no threat to herself, and no skill. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Trinity doesnt need a nerf. Shes boring to play because shes full support. Her one needs to do Damage or something. 

[LuckyCharm]

On 09/07/2017 at 9:25 AM, _A_Illuminati_A_ said:

Trinity is very balanced.
She has already been nerfed. And infinite energy is NOT OverPowered. This is not debatable, anyone who has played the game for over 1000 hours can tell you that infinite energy is not OP.

Please reconsider any decisions you make to nerf her energy giving potential.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6m4772/leave_trinity_alone/

 

3000 hours and counting, aaaaand yeah infinate energy is 100% overpowered. 

Here's why... when you have infinite energy you don't ever have to stress about anything coming to attack you on almost any frame. Pretty much every frame can do their "oh crap" spell whenever they're in trouble. There's not one single frame that doesnt have one of these spells. And when you always have it available, what is going to kill you when it can't move? The only one I can think of is saryn who already has massive damage and range to the point most things don't get to her

Being able to lock down entire maps is completely overpowered since it turns the game from a legitimate risk of you dying into a walking simulator , and when that lockdown usually includes damage or a nuke then its even stronger. The only reason anyone ever dies in warframe is lacking teamwork or team composition. 

Have you played raids? Everyone always brings those up when mentioning trin. Do you find LoR fun? When none of the enemies even get close to killing anyone because everything is permanently locked in place unable to attack? I don't. Its just a tedious 15 minutes to get an arcane. At least in JV you have to kill things, but even then.. trinity isn't essential there for more than blessing most times thanks to it's huge damage reduction. 

The problem with trinity though isnt that shes an energy battery.. or a healer.. its that she excels at both to the point where other healers are sneezed for the most part because shes so effective with press 4 and everyones full hp. As for ev, she doesn't even have to kill the enemy to get 300+ energy out of it. you can get multiple ev's out of a single target, in a huge area which makes her better than the only other energy frame Harrow, because he has to headshot or kill things himself to get the benefit, which is a fraction of what trinity can do

[motorfirebox]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Trinity doesnt need a nerf. Shes boring to play because shes full support. Her one needs to do Damage or something. 

I don't agree at all. Harrow doesn't do any damage, and he's fun as heck. The difference is, Harrow's abilities require skill, where Trinity's abilities require one of those drinking bird toys.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Just now, motorfirebox said:

I don't agree at all. Harrow doesn't do any damage, and he's fun as heck. The difference is, Harrow's abilities require skill, where Trinity's abilities require one of those drinking bird toys.

I dont have harrow yet so i cant say. However, i do kno his abilities are based on doin damage... To receive bonuses. Trinity needs either something to promote damage or needs to do damage with her one. Her energy buff is good... Only like two frames do that now... Her 3 and 4 are great.

[motorfirebox]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I dont have harrow yet so i cant say. However, i do kno his abilities are based on doin damage... To receive bonuses. Trinity needs either something to promote damage or needs to do damage with her one. Her energy buff is good... Only like two frames do that now... Her 3 and 4 are great.

I think Trinity needs a rework in line with Harrow, definitely.

[Windy_Wind]

I don't think  trin need any nerf because she's not that great and she's boring to  play that's for sure. If people insist on "nerfing" her EV, the only way I can think of is making it work exactly like her 1st abilities and able to be casted on multiple enemies.