Plains of Eidolon

[Culaio]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

This all is incredibly boring in every single game it's implemented into. People get tired of things like that really fast. Mining space ninja? hunting space ninja? space ninja archeologist? 

look at breath of wild popularity even though it focuses on activities like this(gathering, cooking and other stuff like this), it seems people dont share your opinion about this.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Culaio

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Just now, Culaio said:

look at breath of wild popularity even though it focuses on activities like this, it seems people dont share your opinion about this.

its a different game. With different design and different setting. Link is not a space ninja with superpowers. Zelda is a cutesy game with very specific appeal. You can't turn warframe into zelda.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Fantastic ideas! 

[Culaio]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

its a different game. With different design and different setting. Link is not a space ninja with superpowers. Zelda is a cutesy game with very specific appeal. You can't turn warframe into zelda.

well link also isnt a cook, he is a warrior/soldier so and yet...

in wow we also heroes who are trying to save world and yet we can fish, mine and other stuff like this, you can say this about ANY mmo game.

I shown earlier in this video how mining can look, while making sense for a warrior, I will show the video again:

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 minutes ago, Culaio said:

well link also isnt a cook, he is a warrior/soldier so and yet...

in wow we also heroes who are trying to save world and yet we can fish, mine and other stuff like this, you can say this about ANY mmo game.

All these games have the "warrior" part covered. Cooking and fishing is just an additional thing to do. You can't build your gameplay in an action game on cooking and fishing - is what I'm saying. DE would have to reinvent a lot of the gameplay for this new environment. And while they're doing just that - reinventing the wheel, the rest of the game will suffer.

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Culaio]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

All these games have the "warrior" part covered. Cooking and fishing is just an additional thing to do. You can't build your gameplay in an action game on cooking and fishing - is what I'm saying. DE would have to reinvent a lot of the gameplay for this new environment. And while they're doing just that - reinventing the wheel, the rest of the game will suffer.

I have no idea what you are getting at, doesnt warframe also have warrior part covered ? I mean we have whole plains to fight(like in breath of wild...)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Truth is, Warframe isn't an MMO. It's not even an RPG. It's a coop horde shooter with rpg elements at most. And DE are attempting to make it into a full-fledged mmo out of the blue. You can't rework your game this much while abandoning what it was before. It's not gonna work.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, Culaio said:

I have no idea what you are getting at, doesnt warframe also have warrior part covered ? I mean we have whole plains to fight(like in breath of wild...)

We don't have anything yet. -_-

What I'm going at is that Warframe lacks focus and clear realistic vision for what the game could be after four years of open beta. DE keep abandoning old stuff to create new gameplay mechanics from scratch. Why do this? It's incredibly inefficient and makes for a disjointed game expierience. And the warrior part of warframe right now, my friend, is a parcour simulator to a fixed objective with missions that barely have enough gameplay for a single person. 

[Culaio]

35 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Truth is, Warframe isn't an MMO. It's not even an RPG. It's a coop horde shooter with rpg elements at most. And DE are attempting to make it into a full-fledged mmo out of the blue. You can't rework your game this much while abandoning what it was before. It's not gonna work.

Well they arent abandoning coop horde shooter aspect, normal mission will still be there and still developed, DE said want both landscapes and previous style of missions side by side.

31 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

We don't have anything yet. -_-

What I'm going at is that Warframe lacks focus and clear realistic vision for what the game could be after four years of open beta. DE keep abandoning old stuff to create new gameplay mechanics from scratch. Why do this? It's incredibly inefficient and makes for a disjointed game expierience. And the warrior part of warframe right now, my friend, is a parcour simulator to a fixed objective with missions that barely have enough gameplay for a single person. 

what I meant by warrior part covered I meant combat gameplay. which while isnt perfect(needs better balance) is there. 

I must agree that missions are kinda boring it should have multiple objectives, I never was much of pvp player but I played in the past unreal tournament 2004 and my favorite map was Assault - convoy

I always liked how it had feel like I am doing something meaningful when playing it(and yes to finish it you had to do multiple objectives, so of which werent mandatory if I am not mistaken but helped you team if you did them)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

20 minutes ago, Culaio said:

Well they arent abandoning coop horde shooter aspect, normal mission will still be there and still developed,

The game is already a parcour sim to a fixed objective since Void 2.0. There's no incentive to stay longer than one rotation in any endless mission (unless you are forced to) and people generally don't want to spend an additional second in the missions. I'm sure you saw and probably participated in the race to the extraction that unfolds whenever the green marker appears. People don't like the gameplay and they demonstrate it in every mission. Now realize that with PoE this problem isn't gonna be touched upon for at least half-a-year or longer. And the way DE fought this problem in the first place is by making lemons unpickable by vacuum just to slow the natural pace of the missions... Oh god...here I go again.

 I just don't believe in PoE. It's a cool concept not too well thought through in my opinion. Just added on top of everything else. While abandoning the rest of the game, and averting the attention of the community from legitimate gameplay issues to this artifical hype of the open world, that has no way in hell to meet the expectations.

Edited August 3, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[TheHappyTyranid]

13 hours ago, Duckboy3825 said:

DE has said that they're likely to make an open world map for just about every major planet. The next one is most likely Mars. They have a small team that's already getting to work on it, as seen here.

Maybe each open world map could have the same basis as Plains of Eidolon, each one with a relay area filled with colonists and a large Orokin tower. Looking something like this.

Epic. Just freaking epic. Now I know why they're releasing in mid September (Unless they get delayed, AGAIN), is because they are working on other landscapes for other planets. Wonder what comes out at night on Mars? Maybe infested by the thousands? For those veterans who don't want a single enemy, but instead hordes of high level chopped suey cannon fodder. I can see that; zombie apocalypse at night, corpus during the day.

[Vlada91]

In this logic we are going to have 1 open world in 1 year so 10 open world planets in what,10 years???? Thats 2 much 😑🤔😢

[Duckboy3825]

31 minutes ago, Vlada91 said:

In this logic we are going to have 1 open world in 1 year so 10 open world planets in what,10 years???? Thats 2 much 😑🤔😢

If you're saying that Plains of Eidolon is coming 1 year from now it's not. Although DE has been working on it for quite some time already. Plains of Eidolon is the first in a series so the others shouldn't take quite as long as PoE is. Warframe wasn't originally programed to handle open-world, and Steve has said that they have to do a lot of editing with the code and enemy AI to re-purpose it for an open environment. Once that's done the foundation for other planets has already been laid out. They can also recycle a lot of the stuff used to make PoE.

Also I'm not saying DE is making a PoE for every single planet, just a few with solid surfaces like Mars and Pluto. Shouldn't take more than a few months for each one depending on what DE is planning.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Duckboy3825

[Fiftycentis]

32 minutes ago, Vlada91 said:

In this logic we are going to have 1 open world in 1 year so 10 open world planets in what,10 years???? Thats 2 much 😑🤔😢

as @Duckboy3825 said, wf wasn't designed to handle something similar, so they needed time to work it out, but now the next landscapes are going to need less time.

and i don't think we are gonna see landscapes for every planet; think of jupiter, it would be cool to have a gigantic corpus city, but i don't think we are gonna see it, or eris, we have no mission on the planet, and probably it's fully infested, so other than we as warframes we can only see maybe the myconians (or how it's written) from nidus quest, thus it would be a great spot to farm mutagen samples.

[OniDax]

9 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

The main problem with open world gameplay is that it's HARD on writing and environment design. If you don't have time or resources to work with either of those, you end up with an empty space with fetch quests. That's what 99% of mmorpg games are and I see no way for a 100-ish DE team to be able to create anything beyond that. There's a reason why open world is exclusively a triple-A studios' thing and even those usually fail to deliver - open world is incredibly hard and costly to do. It's a huge undertaking and suddenly trying to make Warframe into an open world game after four years of open beta is just a populist folly. Even a year ago when I suggested it on the forums, I didn't think it was genuinely possible, but with the state of the game right now - it's a suicide mission. The only way to accomplish it without murdering the game off completely at this point is by slapping together some fetch quests on an empty open area and leaving it like that, never going past Earth with open world reworks. And even that would take a lot of time and resources, averting them away from solving actual gameplay issues (parcour simulator to a fixed objective, anyone?) 

 In my opinion, PoE is a huge mistake. Just as bad of a mistake as quest-centric development of the past year. And it will take another year to even begin to grasp the damage of this decision. You can't combat content fatigue with more content. It's stupid. And if DE played their own game at all, they would understand. But I guess there are also some youtubers to blame for this idiocy. Day 1 packs... che... 

 

It's not that hard to do. DE already has existing features that could be tailored to work in open world. The key to open world is making it feel active and interactive. That can be accomplished by putting enemy NPCs with movement paths in the environment (your patrols), civilian NPCs doing minor tasks in the environment (moving around, fishing and hunting - essentially an animation), making them run away when shooting happens (use the same alert system that the enemy NPCs currently use), having enemy NPCs spawn at certain locations in the environment, have vehicles in the environment that players can use, have enemy vehicles moving around in the environment, and have dynamic missions (something they've already said they're going to have). All of this is currently possible in Warframe, because all of this exists in one form or another in other modes. It can absolutely be more than just fetch quests.

IMO, this is better than the limited tileset structure. IMO, open world is the first step in solving the number 1 gameplay issue: that the gameplay is too limited and shallow, designed solely around getting loot as quickly as possible. Open world is the first step to solving that problem because open world is about more than just the rewards. It's about the gameplay experience, and the focus of a successful open world is on providing an immersive, interactive, and replayable gameplay experience. Warframe just being a looter is the problem. That's why there is content fatigue - because the gameplay itself is so shallow and so limited that the only thing players look forward to is new content items. And what DE has been doing for the past four years is fighting content fatigue with more content, without addressing the core gameplay issues plaguing the game.

PoE is far from a mistake. I agree that the quest system is a mistake, primarily because 1) it does absolutely nothing to flesh out the gameplay or make the game more complete, 2) the creative decisions for the lore have been missed opportunities, and 3) it's provided DE an excuse to throw in gimmicky features just to make the quests more appealing. Plains of Eidolon, and open world in general, addresses the game's major faults (in my opinion) because 1) it offers a gameplay environment where the player's gameplay experience is key to success, 2) it gives DE the opportunity to integrate and synergize their various mission types and features in a coherent fashion in one gameplay space, in order to offer a holistic gameplay experience, 3) it allows DE greater opportunity to integrate lore into the gameplay space through the key open world element of immersion, 4) it expands the scope of Warframe's gameplay by allowing for gameplay on different scales, such as infantry-based, vehicle-based, and air-based gameplay, and 5) it allows for an expansion of Grineer and Corpus lore by giving them a larger environment in which to use more tools (land vehicles and aircraft, various bases, interaction with civilian NPCs, etc), further fleshing out just how they operate.

All of this is good for Warframe. All of this moves Warframe towards a more complete state. All of this helps give Warframe the structure it so desperately needs. I think Warframe would do well to have an open-world-centric development. Then DE might finally have more of a focus on gameplay experience, and less of a focus on content items like more unnecessary warframes and mods.

7 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Fishing gets really old. Really quickly.

Read my OP again. I don't care for fishing either. I don't think that's the kind of activity that PoE should be focusing on.

7 hours ago, Culaio said:

that is true but if they continued to add new activites it could be interesting, for example:

• hunting with bow or other weapon of this type
• mining - possibly by droping extractor and then defending it from enemies(firefall mmo game had something like this and it was fun)
• archelogy(or something similar) - looking for objects that unlock lore related to what happen to plains or even better finding out about earth and humanity past(it seems orokin were originally humans so how exactly they reached the point where they become orokin)

and more.

Those aren't the primary kinds of activities that we should be doing in Plains of Eidolon. Warframe is a combat-focused game, and it should remain as such. The primary activities we should be doing should be combat related and focused on fighting the Grineer and defending the Ostrons. Hunting, mining, and the such could be minor tertiary activities, but the primary activities should be what the Warframes were made for - war. Such primary activities should include:

• fighting the Grineer
• defending Ostrons
• escorting Ostrons from one point to another (a "mobile" defense, really)
• assisting allies (such as Steel Meridian and New Loka) in assaults on the Grineer
• assisting allies (such as Steel Meridian and New Loka) in defending or escorting Ostrons
• capturing HVTs (high value targets)
• assassinating HVTs
• commandeering enemy vehicles for allies (such as Steel Meridian and New Loka)
• raiding enemy bases and convoys for supplies for ourselves
• raiding enemy bases and convoys for supplies for the Ostrons
• raiding enemy bases and convoys for supplies for allies (such as Steel Meridian and New Loka)
• raiding enemy bases for intel for ourselves
• raiding enemy bases for intel for allies (such as Steel Meridian and New Loka)
• fighting the Eidolons

All of these are the kinds of activities that we should primarily be engaged in. These are the gameplay elements that are going to make Plains of Eidolon a replayable, immersive experience.

The only other activity that I would say we should engage in is Excavation, but it'd have to be excavating some object, not mods. Maybe we have to excavate some Orokin or Sentient superweapon to keep out of the hands of the Grineer. That's the sort of "mining" or excavation that should take place. BTW, that Firefall video you referenced is really just excavation.

Edited August 3, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Pendragon1951]

Just saw a clip from Steve on his twitter showing a warframe battling a Eidolon, now here is a question, someone tried to tell me that Eidolons and Sentients are one and the same, which seems odd to me since on the big reveal Steve called it a Eidolon?

[Fiftycentis]

1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said:

Just saw a clip from Steve on his twitter showing a warframe battling a Eidolon, now here is a question, someone tried to tell me that Eidolons and Sentients are one and the same, which seems odd to me since on the big reveal Steve called it a Eidolon?

i think to make it recognizable from "normal" sentients while talking

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Pendragon1951 said:

now here is a question, someone tried to tell me that Eidolons and Sentients are one and the same, which seems odd to me since on the big reveal Steve called it a Eidolon

 

He literally said in the TennoCon reveal they're a type of Sentient, in addition to the Devstream.

[Pendragon1951]

ahhh got it:)

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Pendragon1951 said:

ahhh got it:)

 

There's more info on the most recent Devstream. It was stated that the Eidolon are part of the bigger Sentient that attacked the Cetus tower on Earth centuries ago before the Orokin destroyed it, and that they're wandering aimlessly through the Plains with little to no clue why/how they're there.

Edited August 3, 2017 by LazerSkink

[Myscho]

Look like giant Transformer

[OniDax]

4 hours ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

Epic. Just freaking epic. Now I know why they're releasing in mid September (Unless they get delayed, AGAIN), is because they are working on other landscapes for other planets. Wonder what comes out at night on Mars? Maybe infested by the thousands? For those veterans who don't want a single enemy, but instead hordes of high level chopped suey cannon fodder. I can see that; zombie apocalypse at night, corpus during the day.

Well, on Mars, it should be Grineer and Corpus, but primarily Grineer.

[Fiftycentis]

25 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Look like giant Transformer

time to blow up the earth, and problem solved... maybe

[OmegaShadowcry]

6 hours ago, Myscho said:

-le snip-

I'd be willing to bet that that is not the final size for the Eidolons. I recall reading that they are meant to be larger than Lephantis, although it wasn't clear by how much. Granted, that also wasn't exactly a ground-level view of that Eidolon, so it's not totally reliable for getting the full scale. Still, I'm hyped to fight kaiju-scale Sentients. I wonder if they'll do a Shadow of the Colossus-style thing, where our Warframes have to disable the Eidolons or expose their weak-points, so that our Operators can Void Beam them?

[Duckboy3825]

1 hour ago, OmegaShadowcry said:

I'd be willing to bet that that is not the final size for the Eidolons. I recall reading that they are meant to be larger than Lephantis, although it wasn't clear by how much. Granted, that also wasn't exactly a ground-level view of that Eidolon, so it's not totally reliable for getting the full scale. Still, I'm hyped to fight kaiju-scale Sentients. I wonder if they'll do a Shadow of the Colossus-style thing, where our Warframes have to disable the Eidolons or expose their weak-points, so that our Operators can Void Beam them?

That's probably so. The Eidolon we see in the demo is much larger and appears to be floating instead of walking.