Infested Ancients are Orokin

[Sitchrea]

If you look at the image of Ballas shown at the Tennocon 2017 Art Panel, notice his elongated, deformed right arm.

Then notice the Ancients' elongated, deformed right arm.

Also makes sense as to why they're called, "Ancient" - because they are literally ancient.

Also consider the Ancient Healer Simaris entry. Makes sense why "Ancients" were around in the Orokin era now.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

You must have missed the boat man, that Simaris' Entry you mentioned confirmed that the Orokin in some way shape or form are Ancient Infested a l o n g time ago, haha.

[Lakais]

I have an issue with the way Ballas was shown. I mean in the Ancient Healer synthesis entry describes the Orokin.

Quote

The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms.

Same in the Guardsman synthesis entry. When the pirate-orokin showed up, his description was that "His symmetry was off and his eyes were dull." Same with the Ordis Fragments. 

This tells me that the higher rank Orokin were unnaturally beautiful by the standard of that era. One of the qualifications of beauty being symmetry. That thing that was shown does not feel symmetrical. Granted Ballas is an Executor, and that class is just one step bellow the actual Emperors of the Orokin empire. Executors basically dealt with the day-to-day on behalf of The Seven. But still, when I look at that description, I do not feel like that is Orokin. It's some abomination set up on a pedestal as a freak show entertainment piece. 

[BetaNoire]

29 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I have an issue with the way Ballas was shown. I mean in the Ancient Healer synthesis entry describes the Orokin.

Same in the Guardsman synthesis entry. When the pirate-orokin showed up, his description was that "His symmetry was off and his eyes were dull." Same with the Ordis Fragments. 

This tells me that the higher rank Orokin were unnaturally beautiful by the standard of that era. One of the qualifications of beauty being symmetry. That thing that was shown does not feel symmetrical. Granted Ballas is an Executor, and that class is just one step bellow the actual Emperors of the Orokin empire. Executors basically dealt with the day-to-day on behalf of The Seven. But still, when I look at that description, I do not feel like that is Orokin. It's some abomination set up on a pedestal as a freak show entertainment piece. 

Then....what is it really? Would the Orokin do that?

[SeaUrchins]

Maybe he was symmetrical front to back, not left to right lol

[Miser_able]

1 minute ago, SeaUrchins said:

Maybe he was symmetrical front to back, not left to right lol

Or maybe he was once symmetrical but is now deformed. 

[EmptyDevil]

57 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

You must have missed the boat man, that Simaris' Entry you mentioned confirmed that the Orokin in some way shape or form are Ancient Infested a l o n g time ago, haha.

No, it didn't allude to the Orokin being Ancient Infested at all. It basically points out how the Lorist becoming Infested is what created Ancient Healers.

44 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I have an issue with the way Ballas was shown. I mean in the Ancient Healer synthesis entry describes the Orokin.

Same in the Guardsman synthesis entry. When the pirate-orokin showed up, his description was that "His symmetry was off and his eyes were dull." Same with the Ordis Fragments. 

This tells me that the higher rank Orokin were unnaturally beautiful by the standard of that era. One of the qualifications of beauty being symmetry. That thing that was shown does not feel symmetrical. Granted Ballas is an Executor, and that class is just one step bellow the actual Emperors of the Orokin empire. Executors basically dealt with the day-to-day on behalf of The Seven. But still, when I look at that description, I do not feel like that is Orokin. It's some abomination set up on a pedestal as a freak show entertainment piece. 

I suspect that Alarez(pirate) wasn't even an Orokin to begin with. If he was, he was extremely low in rank. I base this on Bilsa not recognizing him, her surprise at how he was even able to use the Executorial Frigate ship, or even knowing where he was from before Veytok killed him. He was an opportunist that saw the fall as his way of claiming control of the system for sure. He was definitely collecting high-rank Orokin DNA as a way to give himself the power to operate their locked tech.

The only mention of Emperors are from Stalker's codex entry IIRC,  a deranged individual, and that probably refers to the Executors. Nothing in the lore suggests Ballas or his peers are beneath anyone. The Executors are The Seven based on context of all their mentions, and The Seven are the rulers.

[Lakais]

15 hours ago, BetaNoire said:

Then....what is it really? Would the Orokin do that?

Devs claimed it was a concept of Ballas, so it's Executor Ballas. But I don't see the "godlike royalty" in that picture. Some do, I don't and that's ok. 

15 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

I suspect that Alarez(pirate) wasn't even an Orokin to begin with. If he was, he was extremely low in rank. I base this on Bilsa not recognizing him, her surprise at how he was even able to use the Executorial Frigate ship, or even knowing where he was from before Veytok killed him. He was an opportunist that saw the fall as his way of claiming control of the system for sure. He was definitely collecting high-rank Orokin DNA as a way to give himself the power to operate their locked tech.

The only mention of Emperors are from Stalker's codex entry IIRC,  a deranged individual, and that probably refers to the Executors. Nothing in the lore suggests Ballas or his peers are beneath anyone. The Executors are The Seven based on context of all their mentions, and The Seven are the rulers.

I subscribe to Alarez being a low class Orokin making the best of a situation. A man of ambition, if you will. And I somehow got a feel from The War Within that there was some higher power to the Executors, but that might of been my coffee infused, sleep addled mind talking. I might have mixed up the point of Orokin royalty in general doing body swapping and whatever and not just some very small elite. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Lakais

[Blakrana]

43 minutes ago, Lakais said:

And I somehow got a feel from The War Within that there was some higher power to the Executors, but that might of been my coffee infused, sleep addled mind talking. I might have mixed up the point of Orokin royalty in general doing body swapping and whatever and not just some very small elite. 

I would say you're right the Executors had an edge over the Orokin caste the Queens belong to. After all, Ordan Karris killed them and then they just stood and laughed about it immediately.

Compared to the Queen's Yuvan ritual, and she's essentially vulnerable at any point without protection, as her body or her victim's body are essentially mortal. To say nothing of the time required to complete the ritual either; Ordan was bleeding out and had little time left, let alone he'd notice something being different if Ballas had indeed gotten a fresh body, what with being able to recognise him by voice.

So there's at least two forms of Immortality going on; the Continuity which essentially treats human subjects as you would Morphs in Eclipse Phase, resleeving when you find one you like (albeit Morphs don't have a native ego to mulch first and the Orokin certainly have the technology to just make bodies if they wanted), whilst the Executors...whatever their deal is, it's much more than simply trading old bones for young ones.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, Orokin always body swapped to prevent death, right? perhaps the Ballas mentioned in the Codex, who looks so "perfect" was Ballas in his previous (or perhaps original) body, then later on he was required to change into a version of the body he has now. funnily enough, this could be regarded as a "sacrifice": having to trade his glorious symmetrical appearance for one of a monster (by Orokin standards) in the name of self-preservation. yes, the Orokin valued their appearance, but it's better to be alive and ugly than handsome and dead, right?

no doubt he has plans to get out of his hideous current body ASAP, plans that we'll have to put an end to. don't worry Ballas, the Galatine I bury in your skull will make you far more beautiful!

[-Krism-]

19 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

If you look at the image of Ballas shown at the Tennocon 2017 Art Panel, notice his elongated, deformed right arm.

Then notice the Ancients' elongated, deformed right arm.

Also makes sense as to why they're called, "Ancient" - because they are literally ancient.

Also consider the Ancient Healer Simaris entry. Makes sense why "Ancients" were around in the Orokin era now.

Even Steve said that, it's not a surprise you know.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Ever see those women with rings over their neck, which as a result makr their neck longer? In their culture it's seen as beautiful, but not to our "more modern" society.

I figure it's either the same case for the orokins, or ballas was actualy symetrical but a long time alive without transfering into another body makes him alive yet with a decomposing body.

[InquisitorMaximus]

23 hours ago, Lakais said:

I have an issue with the way Ballas was shown. I mean in the Ancient Healer synthesis entry describes the Orokin.

Same in the Guardsman synthesis entry. When the pirate-orokin showed up, his description was that "His symmetry was off and his eyes were dull." Same with the Ordis Fragments. 

This tells me that the higher rank Orokin were unnaturally beautiful by the standard of that era. One of the qualifications of beauty being symmetry. That thing that was shown does not feel symmetrical. Granted Ballas is an Executor, and that class is just one step bellow the actual Emperors of the Orokin empire. Executors basically dealt with the day-to-day on behalf of The Seven. But still, when I look at that description, I do not feel like that is Orokin. It's some abomination set up on a pedestal as a freak show entertainment piece. 

In my opinion, you're right @Lakais... even when I love the way how Ballas look in the new concept, particularly reminding me the lines "Our long deathless winter has left us numb... our shimmering beauty" or "we who are beyond death, have forgotten the simple power of fear" because the skin color, the twisted and queer image, the empty eyes, really resembles an immortal-already-dead-one, somebody living a long deathless winter only because he is already empty.... even considering that, the Synthesis Imprints, and the other information we have, always made me think of the Orokin in general and Ballas in particular as something like this:

*I could even picture him convincingly saying every word of the Prime trailers, something that I can't do with the new concept, not yet at least* Silky skin, symmetrical visage, shimmering beauty yet far from the human they are, far from their origin, death and decay in their deathless winter... so opposite from their clone-mules they despite so deeply... "Unusual. Singular. Crafted without caste, wrought of the finest ore, slender and queer"....

@EmptyDevil is also right, the Synthesis Imprint of the Corrupted Ancient only confirm that the Lorist Remballa is the progenitor of the Healer Infested, Ontella and Remballa are in any case closer to the Grineer: Ontella says "We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviors." probably the Orokin were actually immune to the infestation like the Tenno, as the Operator says sometimes "we are immune to the infestation but they still try to kill us"... Just guessing on that...

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by RubenRosas

[Lakais]

2 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Ever see those women with rings over their neck, which as a result makr their neck longer? In their culture it's seen as beautiful, but not to our "more modern" society.

I figure it's either the same case for the orokins, or ballas was actualy symetrical but a long time alive without transfering into another body makes him alive yet with a decomposing body.

That would explain a few things. But the one thing that is constantly mentioned about high ranking Orokin is their symmetry. I would of had little problem with Ballas's blue spin and glass eyes. But it's the arm. It looks like it comes out of his chest or his entire body is actually so out of whack that what we see is some kind of weird perversion. Humans are drawn to symmetry, it's something that's hardwired into us. Ballas's skin could be perfect and only looks blue because it's so smooth it reflects light. He could be 9 feet tall, an almost angelic figure. But that arm would break any sort of sense of awe or wonder. My reaction personally would be to run for the door screaming "INFESTATION!" 

1 hour ago, RubenRosas said:

In my opinion, you're right @Lakais... even when I love the way how Ballas look in the new concept, particularly reminding me the lines "Our long deathless winter has left us numb... our shimmering beauty" or "we who are beyond death, have forgotten the simple power of fear" because the skin color, the twisted and queer image, the empty eyes, really resembles an immortal-already-dead-one, somebody living a long deathless winter only because he is already empty.... even considering that, the Synthesis Imprints, and the other information we have, always made me think of the Orokin in general and Ballas in particular as something like this:

*I could even picture him convincingly saying every word of the Prime trailers, something that I can't do with the new concept, not yet at least* Silky skin, symmetrical visage, shimmering beauty yet far from the human they are, far from their origin, death and decay in their deathless winter... so opposite from their clone-mules they despite so deeply... "Unusual. Singular. Crafted without caste, wrought of the finest ore, slender and queer"....

@EmptyDevil is also right, the Synthesis Imprint of the Corrupted Ancient only confirm that the Lorist Remballa is the progenitor of the Healer Infested, Ontella and Remballa are in any case closer to the Grineer: Ontella says "We were twins bred for purpose, cloned and then modified so that we could both interface with the Lora Device. The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms. We made them uncomfortable and they made that known, that is, until they were sick or hurt and then we were saviors." probably the Orokin were actually immune to the infestation like the Tenno, as the Operator says sometimes "we are immune to the infestation but they still try to kill us"... Just guessing on that...

 

Not really following that design, but to each their own. If we used that Valkyr prime description with the blue, I'd go with them being essentially human, but "refined". Like some stupid HD model that's been agonized over for weeks, every pore, fold and hair being hand placed. With their skin being so smooth as to be almost as polished porcelain. With the way that kind of skin would reflect light, he'd be every color imaginable. And in the bright space of standard High Orokin architecture, he'd look godlike with white and gold reflecting in an almost blinding way. 

At least that is how I see it. These people would not leave their ivory tower, they are so far beyond the concerns of us mere mortals that they'd barely knowledge us if they saw us. They wouldn't have to pretend to be gods, because they basically were. But for all this, I still think they'd have the vanity of humans and would need to keep up appearances. 

[InquisitorMaximus]

9 minutes ago, Lakais said:

That would explain a few things. But the one thing that is constantly mentioned about high ranking Orokin is their symmetry.

To be really precise and fair: the Synthesis Imprint of the corrupted Ancient specifically mentions that "the Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry"... following the strict meaning of the word "visage" we are talking about the face: " A person's face, with reference to the form or proportions of the features. ‘an elegant, angular visage’ " (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/visage, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/visage) it is true that we can be generous and extend the "visage" word to all the appearance, but there is no evidence of this in the Synthesis Imprint content... furthermore Ontella makes a contrasting description of themselves when he says "but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples." as clearly indicating he is talking of the face/head when mentioning the "visage's symmetry". Ballas' visage is completely symmetric.

_{Interesting fact: in Spanish we have the word "visaje" for exclusively referring to the facial expressions.}

18 minutes ago, Lakais said:

Not really following that design, but to each their own. If we used that Valkyr prime description with the blue, I'd go with them being essentially human, but "refined". Like some stupid HD model that's been agonized over for weeks, every pore, fold and hair being hand placed. With their skin being so smooth as to be almost as polished porcelain. With the way that kind of skin would reflect light, he'd be every color imaginable. And in the bright space of standard High Orokin architecture, he'd look godlike with white and gold reflecting in an almost blinding way. 

As you said, each their own, and in any case Balla's final form (and with it probably the Orokin appearance as a whole -style, form, etc-) is practically here already. 

23 minutes ago, Lakais said:

description with the blue

I don't find any reference of "the blue" (I assume we are talking about the skin color of the Orokin or Ballas exclusively), only in the Saryn Prime trailer mentions "the blue", but I always assumed he was talking about Earth, "bathed in gold and solemn blue".... probably I was wrong...

[Sar.K.Asmus]

On 13.7.2017 at 5:52 PM, Lakais said:

I have an issue with the way Ballas was shown. I mean in the Ancient Healer synthesis entry describes the Orokin.

Same in the Guardsman synthesis entry. When the pirate-orokin showed up, his description was that "His symmetry was off and his eyes were dull." Same with the Ordis Fragments. 

This tells me that the higher rank Orokin were unnaturally beautiful by the standard of that era. One of the qualifications of beauty being symmetry. That thing that was shown does not feel symmetrical. Granted Ballas is an Executor, and that class is just one step bellow the actual Emperors of the Orokin empire. Executors basically dealt with the day-to-day on behalf of The Seven. But still, when I look at that description, I do not feel like that is Orokin. It's some abomination set up on a pedestal as a freak show entertainment piece. 

It depends on which Ballas version we are seeing in that picture.

• Is it the original Orokin Ballas version? How he looked like before using continuity? (In my opinion it's not)
• Is it the Ballas version after continuity? After he transferred his consciousness into another body to stay alive? Because that's what the Orokin did. (that's what it is in my opinion based on the description of Orokin in the game)

[Corvid]

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 5:43 PM, SeaUrchins said:

Maybe he was symmetrical front to back, not left to right lol

Thank you so much for this Janus-flavoured nightmare fuel. I really needed that mental image.

[texrei]

Unfortunately it's how DE implement new things, at first they have one idea, and then they come with one another. And at the moment we have lore which is inconsistent. So i think "the beautiful" is an obsolete description of this race. Now the "body switching" thing is the trend.

[BetaNoire]

11 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Ever see those women with rings over their neck, which as a result makr their neck longer? In their culture it's seen as beautiful, but not to our "more modern" society.

I figure it's either the same case for the orokins, or ballas was actualy symetrical but a long time alive without transfering into another body makes him alive yet with a decomposing body.

Beauty is subjective

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Myanmar)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lip_plate#/media/File:Mursi_woman_and_her_baby.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_(jewellery)

 

4 hours ago, texrei said:

Unfortunately it's how DE implement new things, at first they have one idea, and then they come with one another. And at the moment we have lore which is inconsistent. So i think "the beautiful" is an obsolete description of this race. Now the "body switching" thing is the trend.

The bodyswitching was always canon though.

 

Thank you so much for this Janus-flavoured nightmare fuel. I really needed that mental image.

OOOOOOHHHHHH.

 

That would be cool.

Edited July 15, 2017 by BetaNoire

[(PSN)i7081277]

Remember ballad was an executioner turned prime warframe creator his status wasn't that high in the empire.

[(PSN)i7081277]

Ballas*

[Corvid]

6 hours ago, (PS4)i7081277 said:

Remember ballad was an executioner turned prime warframe creator his status wasn't that high in the empire.

He was an Executor, one of the highest in standing among the Orokin castes. From what we know, the only ones with more authority than the Executors was the Seven, whose will the Executors directly embodied.

6 hours ago, (PS4)i7081277 said:

Ballas*

You know you can just click edit on the previous post, right?