Is Ballas considered good or bad?

[(PSN)Frostelus]

From what we know so far, Ballas is an Orokin executor, who suggested to kill the Tenno for the safety of his presumed lover, Margulis, but failed. However, he was also the creator of several Warframes, as heard from the latest Prime trailers, so I'm a bit confused. Warframes were made for operators to use in various situation, yet Ballas was the one who wanted to get rid of the Tenno in the first place. So, did Ballas have a change of heart at some point or something? Could anyone correct me if I'm missing something?

[(PSN)Shootsalot_720]

grove street for life screw the ballas

[BansheePrime]

There aint a soul in Warframe who is "just" good or bad.

[aligatorno]

Good and Evil are relative. 

[Dawn11715]

I think he felt the need to complete Margulis work. He probably build the warframes and worked with the tenno out of love for his diseased Lover then out of affection for the tenno themselves.  

[Dawn11715]

1 minute ago, maj.death said:

There aint a soul in Warframe who is "just" good or bad.

....

*tries to think of a pure good character*

....

That one child from the nidus quest and Clem

[Pizzarugi]

I get the feeling the sentients probably gave him a change of heart. Wouldn't be surprised if he saw great military value in teenage space wizards in the battle against self-aware terraforming drones gone mad.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Pizzarugi

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

3 minutes ago, Dawn11715 said:

I think he felt the need to complete Margulis work. He probably build the warframes and worked with the tenno out of love for his diseased Lover then out of affection for the tenno themselves.  

Didn't he have her executed...

 

1 minute ago, Dawn11715 said:

....

*tries to think of a pure good character*

....

That one child from the nidus quest and Clem

I am half moon/half sun... so not me...

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

Everything is relative.

Being good for one might mean being bad to another.

 

Example:

Margulis helped tenno survival. Tenno slaughtered whole Orokin civilization.

Was Margulis good or bad?

 

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Shootsalot_720 said:

grove street for life screw the ballas

This never gets old.

But yeah on-topic, it's hard to say considering we don't have the full context on stuff related to him.He was one hell of a SOB but we don't know much of him after or during his work with the Warframes.Did he play Margulis and betryed her to get the Warframes, did he agree because he had no choice and decided to take revenge against the Orokin later on?

[Sloan441]

4 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Good and Evil are relative. 

Ultimately, they aren't. They can't be. Moral relativism always will degenerate to evil. Always. Because you're always lowering the bar along a path of least resistance.

However, they aren't mutually exclusive, either. Hitler liked dogs, after all.

Ballas...he's a product of his culture and seemed an ends justifies the means kind of guy. His job was to lead this empire forward and preserve it. Apparently, he had few filters when it came to this.

[Dawn11715]

Just now, Pizzarugi said:

... space wizards ...

I'll let you know, good sir, that I insist on the term "space demon".

I've killed a lot of people to earn that title, I deserve to be called such...

[blasron]

I don't know but i more on the: he is an Assbag, than he was good guy.

 

[GrayArchon]

Ballas has been involved in many Orokin undertakings, from the creation of the Sentients to the Transference project. He's also the Orokin who made Ordan Karris the mercenary into Cephalon Ordis as a punishment. The Detron Crewman synthesis imprint shows his willingness to be deceptive and underhanded, and the story of Cephalon Ordis shows his vengeful streak. He can be heard arguing against the Transference project in the Second Dream, likely because of the pain it caused him in losing Margulis. Many of his actions depicted so far can be interpreted as him being "bad". However, he is also the narrator of the prime warframe trailers, and his monologues there can sometimes speak of nobler intentions (Saryn Prime, Oberon Prime, arguably Vauban Prime). As commented before, Warframe is rarely a game with clear-cut morals.

[Dawn11715]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

Didn't he have her executed...

Not sure if he was it himself, but even if thats true, he clearly didn't wanted to. 

EDIT: Actually that  would be just one more reason why he could feel the need to redeem himself.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Dawn11715

[Robin-da-Reaper]

Difficult to say, to say the least. During the period of the Tenno's time in Orokin custody he seemingly espoused the general idea of getting rid of the Tenno, supplemented by his fear of Margulis' impending execution. Where his thoughts led him since are a little vague, and his disdain for the Tenno might have gone either way; growing stronger or oiling it away from any sort of rigid hatred. He might have been troubled by Margulis' words "Perhaps they're meant to save us." and wanted something to come out of it. Never really considered "good" or "bad", but since he's a strong Orokin figure it's wise to keep a watchful eye on him. From his speeches he seems to have entered a period of intense contemplation, or finished such long ago, who knows, and voiced those thoughts during the development of the various warframes.

Since the fall of the Orokin Empire at the blades of the Tenno, it is hard to guess what his reaction might've been, in the event that he lived through it. I wouldn't be surprised to find him as a very advanced hermit of some kind.

[aligatorno]

3 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Ultimately, they aren't. They can't be. Moral relativism always will degenerate to evil. Always. Because you're always lowering the bar along a path of least resistance.

However, they aren't mutually exclusive, either. Hitler liked dogs, after all.

Ballas...he's a product of his culture and seemed an ends justifies the means kind of guy. His job was to lead this empire forward and preserve it. Apparently, he had few filters when it came to this.

Not really. It's completely relative because the definitions of good and evil are tied to perspectives and morals. There's a quote from the Addams Family that I like "What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly". The moral code is not something set in stone and valid throughout the universe, it is something personalized for each individual. 

[BansheePrime]

2 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Ballas has been involved in many Orokin undertakings, from the creation of the Sentients to the Transference project.

Uhhhh... the Orokin DID NOT create the sentients. The sentients came from the Tau system.

edit: aparently they did.

Edited July 14, 2017 by maj.death

[GrayArchon]

10 minutes ago, maj.death said:

Uhhhh... the Orokin DID NOT create the sentients.

Detron Crewman synthesis entry. The Orokin sent them to the Tau system.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Detron_Crewman

Edited July 14, 2017 by GrayArchon

[Sloan441]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Frostelus said:

Warframes were made for operators to use in various situation, yet Ballas was the one who wanted to get rid of the Tenno in the first place. So, did Ballas have a change of heart at some point or something? Could anyone correct me if I'm missing something?

I think Ballas had very real concerns where the whole tenno/warframe project would lead--the Valkyr Prime trailer springs to mind.

However, the empire was involved in a war to the death with a previous creation and the situation was desperate. The warframes were a potential remedy to this. They might become a problem later, but that was later; ending the Great War was now.

I suspect this is how Ballas' view of the warframe project progressed. What ultimately happened to him and what he believed at that time we simply don't know...yet.

[Sloan441]

2 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Not really. It's completely relative because the definitions of good and evil are tied to perspectives and morals. There's a quote from the Addams Family that I like "What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly". The moral code is not something set in stone and valid throughout the universe, it is something personalized for each individual. 

No.

There have to be absolutes or you degenerate into chaos. You have to have something to strive for to better yourself, both as individuals and societies. When you lose this, you begin to have real problems. The scope of such things can be considerable, but there has to be a moral guidestone. There has to be something bigger than yourself.

[Dawn11715]

2 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

No.

There have to be absolutes or you degenerate into chaos. You have to have something to strive for to better yourself, both as individuals and societies. When you lose this, you begin to have real problems. The scope of such things can be considerable, but there has to be a moral guidestone. There has to be something bigger than yourself.

I think the bost basic moral compass is the golden rule, to not not do to others what you don't want to have done to yourself. Its a rule thats based on empathie and compassion, something healthy humans usually possess. Any moral beyond that is heavily influenced by the society you live in and its history and kulture, which in are shaped by many individual Ideas. This results in their being some rules that are present in almost every culture like outlawing the general act of murder (based on empathie and personal gain, because normaly no one wants to get murdered)  and rules that are unique to a certain kulture or religion, like praising a deity.

to conclude this: There are some acts that most people would out of compassion agree are evil, if they are not indoctrinated to think otherwise. 

Still, what if the well being of multiple people is at stake, and you cant make it right for everyone. That's where Ballas stood with the tenno.

They were dangerous, to margulis, and basicly everone that would ever come in contact with them. Therefore, to Ballas knowledge, killing them of would possibly save a lot more lives then it would cost. So your eighter showing compassion to the Tenno or their potentiell Victims

Edit: Imagine your in a Balloon with 3 other people and the wind blows your ballon close to a high building. One of the other people is very heavy, if you'd throw him out, the balloon would gain enough height to float over it. The second person realises this and tries to throw him out, the third Person is the second persons child.

You have three posibilitys:

 

You can help the heavy man, and cause all of you to die.

You can help the father, and cause all of you to live

You can ignore everything and do nothing, halving everyones chances of survival.

Personly none of them would make me feel like a good person. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Dawn11715

[theMongoose]

If Lotus is "Space Mom" I like to think of Ballas as "Space Dad". They both helped to create/cultivate the Tenno but dad wasn't really on board until he had to be then peaced out when you turned 18.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Ballas is good. 

But something tells me DE will plot him as an enemy later on. 

[arch111]

Ballas is Orokin.