Is Ballas considered good or bad?

[GrayArchon]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

If someone today enslaved every child below 13 to become a soldier in a war against aliens to save humanity, and succeeded, do you call him a monster or a hero?

Would your mind change if the war would be lost?

 

If you answer those questions, you know what to think about Ballas.

When you put it in those words, it sounds exactly like Ender's Game.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

If someone today enslaved every child below 13 to become a soldier in a war against aliens to save humanity, and succeeded, do you call him a monster or a hero?

Would your mind change if the war would be lost?

 

If you answer those questions, you know what to think about Ballas.

every child? thats a bit over exaggeration.. Take Halsey from Halo. I respect her. Because she could have walked away after setting it ot or something like that. BUT she didn't She went through with it because as something similar to Mordin from the ME series says. Someone else would have gotten it wrong.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

every child? thats a bit over exaggeration.. Take Halsey from Halo. I respect her. Because she could have walked away after setting it ot or something like that. BUT she didn't She went through with it because as something similar to Mordin from the ME series says. Someone else would have gotten it wrong.

Well, enough children to justify calling him a monster. How many exactly the Orokin took we don't know, but given that they pulled their kidnapping act all throughout the solar system I'd say the number is high enough.

2 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

When you put it in those words, it sounds exactly like Ender's Game.

It's the Trolley dilemma question. There's no right answer, just a lesser evil, and even that depends on your PoV.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by AuroraSonicBoom

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

5 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Well, enough children to justify calling him a monster. How many exactly the Orokin took we don't know, but given that they pulled their kidnapping act all throughout the solar system I'd say the number is high enough.

It's the Trolley dilemma question. There's no right answer, just a lesser evil, and even that depends on your PoV.

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they did win it.. yes sure he was a monster. but not a horrible monster.  To me he would be a monster. but one who had good intentions and SAVED all from death because of the council's jerk baggery .

[(PSN)robotwars7]

hard to say for sure, but until I know the exact reason why he killed Margulis, from the Horse's mouth, I consider him a villain. I also consider him a villain for what he did to Ordin Karris; he could have just killed Karris and be done with it, but no. he's a twisted individual deep down. and IMO he deserves to die. fingers crossed for a boss fight against him in  The Sacrifice quest.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

hard to say for sure, but until I know the exact reason why he killed Margulis, from the Horse's mouth, I consider him a villain. I also consider him a villain for what he did to Ordin Karris; he could have just killed Karris and be done with it, but no. he's a twisted individual deep down. and IMO he deserves to die. fingers crossed for a boss fight against him in  The Sacrifice quest.

this. all this. i also wanna kill him for the margulis even tho she's loooong dead but still... he shall pay for the price, he shall must pay for his sin... i want him never exist ever again, but if he's main developer of prime warframe then *shrug*, i hope he's part of boss fight i want him dead.

[Eric1738]

He is probably one of those who believe that the end justifies the means. The death of Margulis probably changed his way of thinking entirely. I think he will be leaning towards "evil" but with a good reason for being evil.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Both.

All miracles require sacrifice. He did some things he probably shouldn't have and had a change of heart. I mean, you would too if the children you wanted to execute just saved your entire empire (and then destroyed it) at the cost of your lover.

[TheGodofWiFi]

Since we still don't know much about Ballas, I don't think we should start labelling him anything. I think Warframe is a little like Game of Thrones in a way, where it's always more complicated than simply labelling people "good" and "bad" with a few exceptions. We have to remember that at the end of the day, we are teenage mass murderers with a variety of weapons at our disposal. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 2:19 PM, (PS4)bddacres said:

He didn't flat out kill his lover. The council voted on it and to not seem sympathetic or, show signs of treason he agreed

But isn't he one of the Council.  I may be confused.  It has been a while since I deep dived lore lol.

[Newnight]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

But isn't he one of the Council.  I may be confused.  It has been a while since I deep dived lore lol.

Correct and as bddacres said, if he voted any other way it would have been bad. No doubt they would have shared an execution chamber.

[Mak_Gohae]

The Sentients, including "Lotus", are the villains. The rest are just people living. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

58 minutes ago, Newnight said:

Correct and as bddacres said, if he voted any other way it would have been bad. No doubt they would have shared an execution chamber.

I guess it depends if you think of him as sociopathic and self serving.  I could see the equal argument be made he voted that way because she was no longer beneficial to his goals.

[SenorClipClop]

On 7/14/2017 at 11:55 AM, (PS4)Frostelus said:

did Ballas have a change of heart at some point or something? Could anyone correct me if I'm missing something?

Most of the information we've gleaned about Ballas seems to have to come to us in patches here and there, and the player may experience some of it out of order. If you watch the Primed Trailers in order of release, it's clear that Ballas is (iirc) the comissioner and a major designer of the Warframe program, a venture to weaponize the Tenno. Initially proud of his creations (as heard in the trailers for Vauban and Saryn), Ballas' attitude toward the Warframes seems to become a lot more negative in later trailers (most notably Valkyr's). This would indicate that in the waning days of the Orokin Empire, Ballas grew more wary and paranoid of the Tenno loosing the control of the Orokin, and Ballas himself may have even forseen the Empire's downfall by Tenno hands.

[Ferah_Frithu]

On 15/07/2017 at 1:32 AM, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ballas was going to execute children...if u are willing to hurt children you are scum, evil and disgusting and deserve to die. Ballas was disgusting scum and deserves death. 

Eh, well, he feared that they would pose a threat to his entire civilization and wipe it all out. Which they did. So, his fear and thus his preferred course of action was justified, after all. Sure, children are still children, but what's the point in saving a few children, if hundreds of thousands, if not even millions of people are going to die by their hands at some point?

That's just delayed self-responsible genocide, if you'd let that happen.

As to whether Ballas is good or evil, my stance on this is a lot different from most of the people around here.

In my opinion, Ballas is neither good nor evil. His actions are pragmatic and stoic in nature, they often serve a purpose that goes beyond the horizon of a single individual. He has always kept the safety of his people in mind, especially the higher castes of the Orokin, to preserve their way of life. He knew what the Tenno were capable of, and he couldn't let them wipe out their entire "race".

Of course, having to agree to the execution of his loved one, Margulis, has surely left a mark on his self. I think he actually does continue Margulis' work, even to this day. Perhaps after she was killed, by the order of the council, he was out for revenge. Maybe, after all this time, he saw what the Tenno really were: Children that didn't choose to become what they were.

It may very well be possible, that he has used the Tenno as a tool for revenge on the Orokin empire. Maybe, after all that has happened, he realized that Margulis was right. They were rotted, through and though.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

4 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

h, well, he feared that they would pose a threat to his entire civilization and wipe it all out. Which they did. So, his fear and thus his preferred course of action was justified, after all. Sure, children are still children, but what's the point in saving a few children, if hundreds of thousands, if not even millions of people are going to die by their hands at some point?

And why did the tenno turn on him? And wipe out the Orokin Empire? I believe the children were justified in doing so. The Orokin specialized in child slavery. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

7 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

may very well be possible, that he has used the Tenno as a tool for revenge on the Orokin empire. Maybe, after all that has happened, he realized that Margulis was right. They were rotted, through and though.

Maybe, but then why agree to have his love executed who was helping the tenno children turned to child soldiers by the Orokin.  No Ballas was scum. Plain and simple.

Edited July 19, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Ferah_Frithu]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

And why did the tenno turn on him? And wipe out the Orokin Empire? I believe the children were justified in doing so. The Orokin specialized in child slavery. 

As of now, we don't know what has caused the betrayal of the Tenno. For all we know, it could've been because of the food tasting bad.

Specializing in child slavery? I don't think so. We only know, that the Orokin breed "perfect" bodies for their Continuity ritual. Nowhere is it stated, that these bodies are children/babies, as far as I know. After all, the Grineer are cloned as well, but never have I heard of Grineer child soldiers.

The other point is, that the Zariman Ten-Zero incident was an accident. The children were not supposed to come back as "void demons". They were simply part of the colonization population, that was supposed to populate the Tau system.

How are they specializing in child slavery?

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Maybe, but then why agree to have his love executed who was helping the tenno children turned to child soldiers by the Orokin.  No Ballas was scum. Plain and simple.

Simply because he had no choice? If he had revolted against the will of the council, he would've been executed himself, alongside Margulis. This way, he could stay alive and potentially deal with whatever the Tenno experiments ensued. Who knows how large the impact that Ballas had on the Warframes and Tenno was? Maybe if he had not existed by the time the Tenno were militarized, things would've gotten far more out of hand than they already did?

I refuse to think that Ballas had only ill intentions. He is far too involved and important for the lore, to be just a "yet another villain"-type of character.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Ferah_Frithu
grammar and spelling

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

34 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

How are they specializing in child slavery?

Did the Orokin perform continuity on the the Orokin/Tenno children? There by inhabiting the childs body and killing the child inside.

Did the Orokin execute the only person who gave a damn about our abilities that made us different?

Did the Orokin use the Tenno as child soldiers to fight a war?

Sounds like slavery to me. Breed and used for one thing..the preservation of the Orokin..The Tenno had had enough!! 

34 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

refuse to think that Ballas had only ill intentions.

The second Ballas used children to "pilot" Warframes in a War. Is really what makes him scrum... then again maybe maybe Ballas was trying to protect the children seeing as tho the inevitable was going to be War after all. 

But he was still ok with have children executed?! How does that not make you a disgusting person?

Edited July 19, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

As of now, we don't know what has caused the betrayal of the Tenno.

How bout murdering our adopted mother Margulis for starters!? Then basically the Orokin had children fight their war for them, and then tried to execute the children when they returned. But guess what? The tenno (us)whipped them out. And Good riddance. But it seems as tho Ballas might have survived?! We will see soon enough, he's got a lot of explaining to do.

Edited July 19, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Ferah_Frithu]

Well, the problem I see is, that there is no evidence that children were used in the ritual known as Continuity. It is only stated, that old and dying Orokin would choose a new, young and healthy body for their "next life". This could be anything from an infant to a young adult. It's too vague to draw any conclusions here. Seeing as these Orokin would be eager to continue their "normal" daily routine though, it would've had to be at least a semi-adult body, for the sake of being physically capable of doing whatever they did before.

As to why they betrayed the Orokin: Unless the Tenno had some sort of "void bond" with Margulis, or Margulis herself has told the Tenno that she would die, there was no way for the Tenno to know what the Orokin elite was up to. I would guess that the Orokin didn't rub it into the Tenno's faces either, so why would they suddenly start a killing spree, killing an entire civilization? I also don't think the Orokin would've let Margulis tinker with the Tenno any further, as soon as they wanted her dead. Why even kill all of the Orokin, and not just the elite? There is too much missing here. It just doesn't make sense, that these "innocent children" would suddenly turn into mass murderers, because of Margulis' death. Revenge? Sure. It might have even been fair. But an entire people? There's no way that it went down like that. There's definitely more to it than that, especially when you consider that all the commoners below the Orokin went down as well. That was genocide on an interplanetary scale we're talking about here. Not just a couple of people who were slaughtered.

The whole "using the tenno for the warframe program" was a questionable move, of course, but they had no choice. This becomes even more clear, as soon as you realize, that the Orokin were at the edge of extinction, driven there by two of their own creations. The Sentients and the infestation. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Don't forget that the Orokin did not choose to utilize the Tenno in this way because they wanted to, but because it was their only choice left. They would've simply whiped them out at the beginning, if it wasn't for Margulis. So, the fact that they were indeed used for the War was, because Margulis made it possible in the first place. If Margulis didn't keep the Tenno, they would've never been used for the war.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

53 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

There is too much missing here.

I agree, there are many holes in the lore. 

[ChaoticEdge]

On 7/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, (PS4)Frostelus said:

From what we know so far, Ballas is an Orokin executor, who suggested to kill the Tenno for the safety of his presumed lover, Margulis, but failed. However, he was also the creator of several Warframes, as heard from the latest Prime trailers, so I'm a bit confused. Warframes were made for operators to use in various situation, yet Ballas was the one who wanted to get rid of the Tenno in the first place. So, did Ballas have a change of heart at some point or something? Could anyone correct me if I'm missing something?

Add to extra long to know full history where they got that name it was from the bible story and now now, I know your going say "oh its not real story" or "sorry don't believed in God".  Listen for crying out loud if you want to know where the bloody name came form its really tanslate baal is a thing they wordship, but wordshiper really say its full name was Ballas, so pretty much he is one the #$$#### gods does nothing, until someone took his name in the distance future.  So guess what Ballas character name is orokin that make him "Wannabe gods".  Yea same thing it said in the story in the bible that ballas was littery said their wordshipers ppl were very also are bloody violents people.

Crazy right?  I wonder what warframe is going dish out in lore later on.  Anyway in other words, Ballas techinally is stright up in some what bad guy In such maybe point.

Edited July 20, 2017 by ChaoticEdge

[Urlan]

Personally, I think of Ballas as looking out for Ballas. The trailer dialogs suggest that he knows that the Orokin Elite are doomed through us, but became the head of the Warframe project after having Margulis executed. Its possible he feels he is doing what he deems best for the Empire, but also that its just what is best for Ballas himself. Until we have more, its hard to draw a definite conclusion.

[Ferah_Frithu]

7 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Add to extra long to know full history where they got that name it was from the bible story [...] Yea same thing it said in the story in the bible that ballas was littery said their wordshipers ppl were very also are bloody violents people.

What are you on about, mate? Ba'al is the name of a god. The name was used in the syrian areas from the pre-islamic era. He is the canaanite depiction of Adon, who is the babylonian depiction of Odin/Woden. He has literally nothing to do with the bible, he is part of the canaanite pantheon, a seperate religion. Just because his name was mentioned somewhere in the bible, it doesn't mean he has anything to do with it. The christians/jews were/are anti-polytheists after all, so you'd expect other gods to be a topic in it, and people whorshipping said beings, depicted as evil.

His name was also written/spoken as Belum, Balo, Bael ect., and nowhere is it stated that his name was "Ballas" at some point. These details do matter, as simply adding a few letters changes the meaning of the word entirely, especially in ancient names of gods. Also, in no traditional/historical texts are worshippers of Ba'al described as "violent people". He is a weather and fertility god, after all.

Just my 2 cents. If you have to bring religion into this, at least stick to historical facts and not biased opinion-based writings in a religious pamphlet.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Ferah_Frithu
corrections