Rhino, Rhino, Rhino [Edit 12: Rhino Charge/Iron Skin Augment]

[Demiax]

DISCLAIMER: These suggestions are my ideas, feed back that is NOT constructive or helpful is unappreciated and will not be taken seriously. DO NOT Post on this thread without reading it 100% through and thoroughly. Thanks!

 

Rhino has said to be the "heaviest Warframe", yet late-game at...lets say level 60+ enemies start to appear, they almost immediately destroy Rhinos Shield and Health, oh wait Iron Skin too! Rhino is one of my favourite frames and he can be the most boring frame, since he is based on, in my own personal opinion, weakly animated abilities and weak skills. 

 

Rhino Warframe Stat Buff: Rhinos new armor rating is 715, and 800 for Rhino Prime.

 

Rhino Passive: Teammates near Rhino will be granted with additional armor. Slight chance of melee enemies running away from Rhino when in proximity.

 

Rhino Warframe Abilities:

 

1.) Rhino Charge- Almost EXACTLY like Slash Dash, but instead... IT DOES IMPACT DAMAGE!!! (which can knock enemies over for a very insignificant amount of time) It has the near same animation as well...

 

2.) Iron Skin- Now, because of the new "updated" Iron Skin, it seems much, much weaker than it was before it's "update", also quite boring. Unsuitable for endgame or lategame material, needs to be fixed.

 

3.) Roar- A good buff skill, hardly noticeable late-game, effects other Tenno abilities, can be increased to about 2.8x damage with max damage mods (which is highly unlikely to have by most Tenno). (this ability is in revision).

 

4.) Rhino Stomp- This Ultimate, yes ULTIMATE skill has little animation to make it unique, extremely low damage and now is has to sacrifice damage, duration or range for it to be effective.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Improvements to Rhino's skills:

 

1.) Rhino Charge 2.0-   

 

Strength: 150 / 250 / 450 / 650
Duration: 7 / 8 / 9 / 10s (Charge duration)
Range: 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 (Quake range, Width of attack range)

 

Rhino Charge 2.0 Animation/Details- Rhino takes a charging stance, Energy Color FX flaring from the bottoms of his monstrous feet and fists, lets out a terrifying roar, he begins to run with such force the very ground trembles, releasing small quakes, tripping enemies. This ability is slow at first, as it takes time to reach full speed, although with every enemy hit, Rhino's speed will increase. 

 

What does this fix? This fixes falling off the map, missing at groups of enemies due to the linear path, and controllability.

 

2.) Iron Skin 2.0-

 

Strength: 400 / 600 / 800 / 1200 (base health)
Duration: 1.5 / 2.5 / 3.5 / 5s (invulnerability duration) Plus enemy damage mitigation multiplier: 2x (all incoming damage is multiplied)
Range: 14 / 16 / 18 / 20m

 

Iron Skin 2.0 Animation/Details- Now shows the users Energy colour and makes the user drip energy out from the Warframe, Rhinos speed is now decreased to .80. When toggled, the amount of damage recieved can be exploded outward, such as Nyx's absorb. Knocks enemies to the ground

 

Augment: Reflects a percentage of enemy damage/bullets in random directions

 

What does this fix? Survivability in high level missions are now reasonably easier for the player, while deducting Rhinos speed and increasing his tankability, his métier.

 

3.) Roar 2.0-

 

Strength: 15% / 25% / 50% / 75% Damage

                15% / 20% / 25% / 30% More melee charge attack damage, 30% chance to have increased melee speed by 25%
Duration: 30s
Range: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 m

 

Roar Animation/Details 2.0- No longer has pulsing yellow aura on Tenno. Now makes all Tenno emit a glow of their own Energy Color. Charge attacks have a special animation/FX such as the Glaives "super throw" attack.

 

4.) Rhino Strike/Slam 2.0- 

 

Strength: 250 / 500 / 750 / 1000 (damage)

Damage Multiplier: 30% / 35% / 45% / 50%

Armor Buff: +1% armor per damage/hit to HP / +2% armor per damage/hit to HP / +3% armor per damage/hit to HP / ... +100% armor per damage/hit to HP for 5s

Armor Buff Cooldown: 15 seconds
Stasis Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 / 8s

Terrify Duration: 1 / 2 / 4 / 6s
Range: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 m

 

Rhino Strike/Slam 2.0 Animation/Details- Rhino takes an attacking position on the ground, charges up his mighty fist for an explosively powerful attack, sending debris (that actually match the map, for example if Rhino Strike is used on the planet Phobos, sand will fly around the effected area...) all around the user. Enhanced Stasis FX, enemies glow energy while suspended. While glowing/suspended, enemies will take an additional 50% Damage max (not affected by mods). Enemies who survive will run in terror. Rhino Strike will buff nearby allies with an armor buff that can not be used consecutively. Stasis also allows for Volts zap to chain to all enemies (that are immobalized). Vaubans Teslas will also chain.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Demiax

[Calvyr]

I play Rhino a fair amount, easily one of my favourite frames and I have to say that I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with him. Any of the "problems" you mentioned are fixed with augments to his abilities or are simply good for balance. His survivablity scales ridiculously high when you use Ironclad Charge and build for armour and power strength, not to mention that Iron Skin grants immunity from status effects. There is already an augment to allow him to shed his Iron Skin (which I use in conjunction with Ironclad Charge). His stomp is one of the better CC abilities in the game. and the augment for that ability (Reinforcing Stomp) can also be surprisingly useful for keeping Iron Skin topped up, especially when you build for range and efficiency.Roar is a straight up buff to squadmates, which is also very useful.

In short, there's nothing wrong with Rhino or his abilities, they don't need to be changed.

[OmegaShadowcry]

Hail, fellow Tenno, a humble Rhino main at your service. I'm no Balance Wizard™, but that might be a pretty fun rework. I've mostly been using Rhino for CC, so I hadn't been paying attention to the damage on his Stomp, but now that you point it out, yeah it is pretty crap on high-end things. Hell, I might even start using Charge with this. 

What were your ideas for augment changes, by the way? Iron Skin 2.0 essentially incorporates a version of Rhino's existing Iron Skin augment, so did you have a plan for that?

My only real complain is that Iron Skin 1.0 wasn't all that weak, really. All I have to do is stand in a crowd of high-damage, high rate-of-fire enemies, and hit 2. That damage counter does the rest. I do understand how you got "boring" out of that, though -- it is fairly repetitive at times.

(On an unrelated note, I think DE has done something with power-scaling in endless missions -- I once managed to get over 150% on my Roar during a Fissure Survival, on a build that normally outputs 73%. Was that in the patch notes that I missed, somewhere?)

[--F--NerevarCM]

3 minutes ago, OmegaShadowcry said:

(On an unrelated note, I think DE has done something with power-scaling in endless missions -- I once managed to get over 150% on my Roar during a Fissure Survival, on a build that normally outputs 73%. Was that in the patch notes that I missed, somewhere?)

Fissure buff? My Rhino P have 100% with Roar, when I get the fissure buff on him, it reaches 200% more damage.

Edited July 19, 2017 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[OmegaShadowcry]

1 minute ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Fissure buff? My Rhino P gets 100% with Roar, when I get the fissure buff on him, it reaches 200% more damage.

It's some kind of cumulative thing, possibly. The percentage kept getting higher as my team stayed.

Edited July 19, 2017 by OmegaShadowcry
contextual wording

[shut]

I play a lot of Rhino. Forgive my bluntness, but I hate everything about your post.
I might sound kinda arrogant in parts of my post, because of how vehemently I disagree with you. I apologize in advance.

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

Rhino has said to be the "heaviest Warframe", yet late-game at...lets say level 60+ enemies start to appear, they almost immediately destroy Rhinos Shield and Health, oh wait Iron Skin too!

I actually get where you're coming from here, but I think Rhino's survivability is fine. Iron Skin is just in a weird state where it totally sucks unaugmented, but slapping on Shrapnel and/or Ironclad turns IS into one of the best damage-mitigating abilities in the game.

 

Now, the rest of the post is where it goes downhill.

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

1.) Rhino Charge- Almost EXACTLY like Slash Dash, but instead... IT DOES IMPACT DAMAGE!!! (which can knock enemies over for a very insignificant amount of time) It has the near same animation as well...

The bloody hell are you on about? Have you used either of these abilities in the last 2 years?

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

1.) Rhino Charge 2.0-   

 

Strength: 150 / 250 / 450 / 650
Duration: 7 / 8 / 9 / 10s (Charge duration)
Range: 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 (Quake range, Width of attack range)

 

Rhino Charge 2.0 Animation/Details- Rhino takes a charging stance, Energy Color FX flaring from the bottoms of his monstrous feet and fists, lets out a terrifying roar, he begins to run with such force the very ground trembles, releasing small quakes, tripping enemies. This ability is slow at first, as it takes time to reach full speed. 

 

What does this fix? This fixes falling off the map, missing at groups of enemies due to the linear path, and controllability.

Rhino Charge is already an effective movement/defense/CC skill all in one. It does NOT need to be made slower, or take friggin' 10x longer to cast.
From your description of the ability's problems, it looks less like the ability is problematic and more like you simply don't know how to use it. If you're struggling to hit enemies in a line, then line up enemies first. If you're falling off maps, stop aiming off maps.

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

2.) Iron Skin 2.0-

 

Strength: 400 / 600 / 800 / 1200 (base health)
Duration: 1.5 / 2.5 / 3.5 / 5s (invulnerability duration) Plus enemy damage mitigation multiplier: 2x (all incoming damage is multiplied)
Range: 14 / 16 / 18 / 20m

 

Iron Skin 2.0 Animation/Details- Now shows the users Energy colour and makes the user drip energy out from the Warframe, Rhinos speed is now decreased to .80. When toggled, the amount of damage recieved can be exploded outward, such as Nyx's absorb. Knocks enemies to the ground

 

What does this fix? Survivability in high level missions are now reasonably easier for the player, while deducting Rhinos speed and increasing his tankability, his métier.

So basically: a slightly longer invul time, baked-in Shrapnel, and a 100% unnecessary hit against movement speed.
I mean, baked-in Shrapnel is something I wouldn't mind seeing, since I agree that IS sucks without an augment. But the extra invulnerability isn't necessary, and the meganerf against movement speed definitely isn't necessary (especially considering what you suggested for Iron Charge).

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

3.) Roar 2.0-

 

Strength: 15% / 25% / 50% / 75% Damage

                15% / 20% / 25% / 30% More melee charge attack damage, 30% chance to have increased melee speed by 25%
Duration: 30s
Range: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 m

 

Roar Animation/Details 2.0- No longer has pulsing yellow aura on Tenno. Now makes all Tenno emit a glow of their own Energy Color. Charge attacks have a special animation/FX such as the Glaives "super throw" attack.

Roar's fine. It's simple, and it's powerful enough that a buff simply isn't needed. It doesn't need any additional effects on the damage or speed of specific weapons, much less one that's tied to RNG.

59 minutes ago, Demiax said:

4.) Rhino Strike/Slam 2.0- 

 

Strength: 250 / 500 / 750 / 1000 (damage)

Damage Multiplier: 30% / 35% / 45% / 50%

Armor Buff: +1% armor per damage/hit to HP / +2% armor per damage/hit to HP / +3% armor per damage/hit to HP / ... +100% armor per damage/hit to HP for 5s

Armor Buff Cooldown: 15 seconds
Stasis Duration: 3 / 4 / 5 / 8s

Terrify Duration: 1 / 2 / 4 / 6s
Range: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 m

 

Rhino Strike/Slam 2.0 Animation/Details- Rhino takes an attacking position on the ground, charges up his mighty fist for an explosively powerful attack, sending debris (that actually match the map, for example if Rhino Strike is used on the planet Phobos, sand will fly around the effected area...) all around the user. Enhanced Stasis FX, enemies glow energy while suspended. While glowing/suspended, enemies will take an additional 50% Damage max (not affected by mods). Enemies who survive will run in terror. Rhino Strike will buff nearby allies with an armor buff that can not be used consecutively. Stasis also allows for Volts zap to chain to all enemies (that are immobalized). Vaubans Teslas will also chain.

Please understand: you are literally adding needless amounts of bonus damage, and nearly doubling the CC duration, on what is already one of the best CC abilities in the game. It's simple, it easily covers maps, and it's always reliable. None of what you suggest is necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

- tl;dr -
I disagree with virtually everything in your post. Aside from augment-less Iron Skin, everything in Rhino's kit is 100% suitable for endgame missions already. Your suggestions are putting weird buffs where they aren't needed, and totally neutering Rhino's mobility for no discernible reason.

 

TL;DR

Aside from augmentless Iron Skin, everything in Rhino's kit is 100% suitable for endgame content already. Your suggestions are putting weird buffs where they aren't needed, and totally neutering Rhino's mobility for no discernible reason.

Not to mention that your comments about Charge's problems ("controllability", "falling off the map") seem to suggest that you're not very experienced with Rhino in the first place.

Edited July 19, 2017 by SortaRandom

[Alcatraz]

I don't care for the entire rework idea you have except buffing his natural base armor.

Why I don't like the ideas you have is because of the ideas behind your rhino charge aren't really useful at all. Using a rhino charge that's pretty slow to begin doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt it will to anyone else who likes a fast paced game as it is. How many peoples are going to slaughter all the enemies around you and move onto the next room or 2 before you even get that Rhino Charge going and up to speed?

Everybody and then you'll be in the back walking along looting everything because you're so far behind everything is already dead.

Iron skin scales pretty darn high with the right mods on it. 150k is possible to achieve on it as it is so there's really nothing you need to do to it other than mod it to do this and practice with how it works and do it. I would not like a slower moving Rhino, he is one of the fastest warframes with just speed mods on.

Roar already buffs the way it should, no changes needed honestly.

Rhino Stomp as current is one of the best CC skills in the game, has a very high range, you can mod it for good damage, or good range, good duration, whatever you desire and it will do it. With range and duration, it gives you all the time you need to perform all the actions you need to take down all the enemies within the radius that it effects.

I've been playing Rhino since he was trailered as a Warframe. I am open to ideas, but I think you should take a step in a different direction for possible reworks to his skills.

15 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Fissure buff? My Rhino P have 100% with Roar, when I get the fissure buff on him, it reaches 200% more damage.

On the stats screen you can get up to 187% with Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, and Power Drift all max rank. That's 299%, 349% is possible with Energy Conversion, but as a whole, not worth using. Obviously the stats screen in game will be higher with it, better buff, but not really needed.

[--F--NerevarCM]

I agree with @Calvyr.

'Been playing Rhino for 4 years now and I don't think he needs any changes. He's finally balanced after many years being useless. Now he's properly a tanker and is still capable of buff and CC.

800 armor for Rhino is simply ridiculous. 

Your changes on Rhino Charge are interesting but, making it charge and forcing him to build speed in close quarter maps will be a pain in the @ss. Right now is a good "OH SH*T" button. He get full speed instantly and forces the way out of a difficult situation, knocking everyone away and saving the player's skin.

And what happens with the Ironclad augment with your changes? What happens with the Charge-Skin synergy?

 

Your ideas about Iron Skin are good but lacks information. How much damage Mitigation it have?  IS will still scale health from armor?  Ironclad Charge with 800 base armor isn't too OP? What about the full resistance Iron Skin have?

 

Now the biggest error you made on the OP is saying that Roar is "hardly noticeable end game". Its one of the best buffs in the game and really important if you want to multiply the damage of other damage dealing Warframes. With only 200% strenght on a str/dur build, I can get 100% more damage. And this damage buff applies to everything that deals damage. This multiplier is enough to increase the capability of weapons and skills of my squadmates, especially if used with other Warframes (Equinox for STR buff or Octavia for more damage)

 

Stomp is one of the best CC in the game and a powerful emergency button. It can stunlock everything for 8 sec and enough to revive a squad member, replenish energy or ammo. It even work on some bosses and special enemies giving time for your team to kill a high priority enemy or run away for a area to regroup and heal. Throwing a ton of effects on Rhino's powers will not make him a better Warframe.

 

[True_Naeblis]

Base armor and energy boost--the armor to sufficient levels not to get nuked when Iron Skin runs out--and a fix for his passive are all he needs.

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, Calvyr said:

I play Rhino a fair amount, easily one of my favourite frames and I have to say that I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with him. Any of the "problems" you mentioned are fixed with augments to his abilities or are simply good for balance. His survivablity scales ridiculously high when you use Ironclad Charge and build for armour and power strength, not to mention that Iron Skin grants immunity from status effects. There is already an augment to allow him to shed his Iron Skin (which I use in conjunction with Ironclad Charge). His stomp is one of the better CC abilities in the game. and the augment for that ability (Reinforcing Stomp) can also be surprisingly useful for keeping Iron Skin topped up, especially when you build for range and efficiency.Roar is a straight up buff to squadmates, which is also very useful.

In short, there's nothing wrong with Rhino or his abilities, they don't need to be changed.

Augments should not be necessary for him to survive, rarely any other frame needs any augmentation to enhance survivability. This thread is to balance rhino and put him in the higher ranking frames.

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, OmegaShadowcry said:

Hail, fellow Tenno, a humble Rhino main at your service. I'm no Balance Wizard™, but that might be a pretty fun rework. I've mostly been using Rhino for CC, so I hadn't been paying attention to the damage on his Stomp, but now that you point it out, yeah it is pretty crap on high-end things. Hell, I might even start using Charge with this. 

What were your ideas for augment changes, by the way? Iron Skin 2.0 essentially incorporates a version of Rhino's existing Iron Skin augment, so did you have a plan for that?

My only real complain is that Iron Skin 1.0 wasn't all that weak, really. All I have to do is stand in a crowd of high-damage, high rate-of-fire enemies, and hit 2. That damage counter does the rest. I do understand how you got "boring" out of that, though -- it is fairly repetitive at times.

(On an unrelated note, I think DE has done something with power-scaling in endless missions -- I once managed to get over 150% on my Roar during a Fissure Survival, on a build that normally outputs 73%. Was that in the patch notes that I missed, somewhere?)

Iron Skin Augment could reflect a percentage of bullets back into random directions, how bou dah?

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, Alcatraz said:

I don't care for the entire rework idea you have except buffing his natural base armor.

Why I don't like the ideas you have is because of the ideas behind your rhino charge aren't really useful at all. Using a rhino charge that's pretty slow to begin doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt it will to anyone else who likes a fast paced game as it is. How many peoples are going to slaughter all the enemies around you and move onto the next room or 2 before you even get that Rhino Charge going and up to speed?

Everybody and then you'll be in the back walking along looting everything because you're so far behind everything is already dead.

Iron skin scales pretty darn high with the right mods on it. 150k is possible to achieve on it as it is so there's really nothing you need to do to it other than mod it to do this and practice with how it works and do it. I would not like a slower moving Rhino, he is one of the fastest warframes with just speed mods on.

Roar already buffs the way it should, no changes needed honestly.

Rhino Stomp as current is one of the best CC skills in the game, has a very high range, you can mod it for good damage, or good range, good duration, whatever you desire and it will do it. With range and duration, it gives you all the time you need to perform all the actions you need to take down all the enemies within the radius that it effects.

I've been playing Rhino since he was trailered as a Warframe. I am open to ideas, but I think you should take a step in a different direction for possible reworks to his skills.

On the stats screen you can get up to 187% with Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, and Power Drift all max rank. That's 299%, 349% is possible with Energy Conversion, but as a whole, not worth using. Obviously the stats screen in game will be higher with it, better buff, but not really needed.

I'm sorry, but he isnt as good as many other frames. His damage is low, his defense is low (without augments), and there is no need for him to be a fast frame. As for your point on people clearing out rooms, people do that anyway, so...? This post is to make Rhino the buff/tank frame, what he should be. Additionally, Rhino could gain enhanced charging speed with every enemy hit.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Demiax

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

I agree with @Calvyr.

'Been playing Rhino for 4 years now and I don't think he needs any changes. He's finally balanced after many years being useless. Now he's properly a tanker and is still capable of buff and CC.

800 armor for Rhino is simply ridiculous. 

Your changes on Rhino Charge are interesting but, making it charge and forcing him to build speed in close quarter maps will be a pain in the @ss. Right now is a good "OH SH*T" button. He get full speed instantly and forces the way out of a difficult situation, knocking everyone away and saving the player's skin.

And what happens with the Ironclad augment with your changes? What happens with the Charge-Skin synergy?

 

Your ideas about Iron Skin are good but lacks information. How much damage Mitigation it have?  IS will still scale health from armor?  Ironclad Charge with 800 base armor isn't too OP? What about the full resistance Iron Skin have?

 

Now the biggest error you made on the OP is saying that Roar is "hardly noticeable end game". Its one of the best buffs in the game and really important if you want to multiply the damage of other damage dealing Warframes. With only 200% strenght on a str/dur build, I can get 100% more damage. And this damage buff applies to everything that deals damage. This multiplier is enough to increase the capability of weapons and skills of my squadmates, especially if used with other Warframes (Equinox for STR buff or Octavia for more damage)

 

Stomp is one of the best CC in the game and a powerful emergency button. It can stunlock everything for 8 sec and enough to revive a squad member, replenish energy or ammo. It even work on some bosses and special enemies giving time for your team to kill a high priority enemy or run away for a area to regroup and heal. Throwing a ton of effects on Rhino's powers will not make him a better Warframe.

 

The synergy? It's very simple, actually. While Rhino is running through enemies, he will still gain the armor buffs from his augment, while also making it easier to simply aim and charge at whatever enemy you want to hit.

[Demiax]

19 hours ago, Calvyr said:

I play Rhino a fair amount, easily one of my favourite frames and I have to say that I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with him. Any of the "problems" you mentioned are fixed with augments to his abilities or are simply good for balance. His survivablity scales ridiculously high when you use Ironclad Charge and build for armour and power strength, not to mention that Iron Skin grants immunity from status effects. There is already an augment to allow him to shed his Iron Skin (which I use in conjunction with Ironclad Charge). His stomp is one of the better CC abilities in the game. and the augment for that ability (Reinforcing Stomp) can also be surprisingly useful for keeping Iron Skin topped up, especially when you build for range and efficiency.Roar is a straight up buff to squadmates, which is also very useful.

In short, there's nothing wrong with Rhino or his abilities, they don't need to be changed.

Whats wrong with making Rhino more of a fun frame to play? Sorry, but I don't personally like any of the way his skills look or feel. They are not flashy, they are nothing compared to the newer frames. Take Nidus and Oberons ability visual FX changes. How about Harrow? How about all of the other frames that are OP as hell?

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, Alcatraz said:

I don't care for the entire rework idea you have except buffing his natural base armor.

Why I don't like the ideas you have is because of the ideas behind your rhino charge aren't really useful at all. Using a rhino charge that's pretty slow to begin doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt it will to anyone else who likes a fast paced game as it is. How many peoples are going to slaughter all the enemies around you and move onto the next room or 2 before you even get that Rhino Charge going and up to speed?

Everybody and then you'll be in the back walking along looting everything because you're so far behind everything is already dead.

Iron skin scales pretty darn high with the right mods on it. 150k is possible to achieve on it as it is so there's really nothing you need to do to it other than mod it to do this and practice with how it works and do it. I would not like a slower moving Rhino, he is one of the fastest warframes with just speed mods on.

Roar already buffs the way it should, no changes needed honestly.

Rhino Stomp as current is one of the best CC skills in the game, has a very high range, you can mod it for good damage, or good range, good duration, whatever you desire and it will do it. With range and duration, it gives you all the time you need to perform all the actions you need to take down all the enemies within the radius that it effects.

I've been playing Rhino since he was trailered as a Warframe. I am open to ideas, but I think you should take a step in a different direction for possible reworks to his skills.

On the stats screen you can get up to 187% with Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, and Power Drift all max rank. That's 299%, 349% is possible with Energy Conversion, but as a whole, not worth using. Obviously the stats screen in game will be higher with it, better buff, but not really needed.

Useful? They're more fun and useful than they are now. Tell me how they are not useful, specifically. Besides "How many peoples are going to slaughter all the enemies around you and move onto the next room or 2 before you even get that Rhino Charge going and up to speed?", that remark doesn't quite make sense, considering everyone else does this with any other frame anyway.

[Demiax]

18 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

I play a lot of Rhino. Forgive my bluntness, but I hate everything about your post.
I might sound kinda arrogant in parts of my post, because of how vehemently I disagree with you. I apologize in advance.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I actually get where you're coming from here, but I think Rhino's survivability is fine. Iron Skin is just in a weird state where it totally sucks unaugmented, but slapping on Shrapnel and/or Ironclad turns IS into one of the best damage-mitigating abilities in the game.

 

Now, the rest of the post is where it goes downhill.

The bloody hell are you on about? Have you used either of these abilities in the last 2 years?

Rhino Charge is already an effective movement/defense/CC skill all in one. It does NOT need to be made slower, or take friggin' 10x longer to cast.
From your description of the ability's problems, it looks less like the ability is problematic and more like you simply don't know how to use it. If you're struggling to hit enemies in a line, then line up enemies first. If you're falling off maps, stop aiming off maps.

So basically: a slightly longer invul time, baked-in Shrapnel, and a 100% unnecessary hit against movement speed.
I mean, baked-in Shrapnel is something I wouldn't mind seeing, since I agree that IS sucks without an augment. But the extra invulnerability isn't necessary, and the meganerf against movement speed definitely isn't necessary (especially considering what you suggested for Iron Charge).

Roar's fine. It's simple, and it's powerful enough that a buff simply isn't needed. It doesn't need any additional effects on the damage or speed of specific weapons, much less one that's tied to RNG.

Please understand: you are literally adding needless amounts of bonus damage, and nearly doubling the CC duration, on what is already one of the best CC abilities in the game. It's simple, it easily covers maps, and it's always reliable. None of what you suggest is necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

- tl;dr -
I disagree with virtually everything in your post. Aside from augment-less Iron Skin, everything in Rhino's kit is 100% suitable for endgame missions already. Your suggestions are putting weird buffs where they aren't needed, and totally neutering Rhino's mobility for no discernible reason.

 

TL;DR

Aside from augmentless Iron Skin, everything in Rhino's kit is 100% suitable for endgame content already. Your suggestions are putting weird buffs where they aren't needed, and totally neutering Rhino's mobility for no discernible reason.

Not to mention that your comments about Charge's problems ("controllability", "falling off the map") seem to suggest that you're not very experienced with Rhino in the first place.

Not sure why you couldn't just tell me your opinion in a nicer manner, instead of obviously putting in belittling remarks and apologizing before hand... what? I have been playing for 4 years as well, you think I don't know how to use Rhino? I know how to use him, and i'm bored of his linear, and lame Charge attack that looks like so many other 1st abilties. This thread is to make Rhino a top tier frame, who has a new set of refreshed abilties that Vets such as myself can play around with. I will apologize in advance, but I thoroughly disagree with everything you are saying here. Rhino Charge now makes it so people have more control of where to go, and makes Rhino seem heavier, as he should be, as well as making him more of a buffer and tank frame. Totally neutering his mobility? He's a tank... so what are you trying to get at here? I honestly don't think the "heaviest warframe" should have one of the best mobility in the game. 

[Demiax]

7 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

Base armor and energy boost--the armor to sufficient levels not to get nuked when Iron Skin runs out--and a fix for his passive are all he needs.

Excal gets a total ability overhaul but Rhino can't? 

[Alcatraz]

Didn't you quote me already? I feel you need to go back through your ideas and revise them a little more. You might your ideas appealing, but you've been getting a lot of feedback from players being against it.

14 minutes ago, Demiax said:

Whats wrong with making Rhino more of a fun frame to play? Sorry, but I don't personally like any of the way his skills look or feel. They are not flashy, they are nothing compared to the newer frames. Take Nidus and Oberons ability visual FX changes. How about Harrow? How about all of the other frames that are OP as hell?

You shall notice that Rhino is old, and a classic Warframe,  these that you speak of, are new and more modern. You will notice that while Mag has had a rework of sorts, she hasn't gotten anything in the way of new fancy skills or fx, that make her new and modern. Changes sure, but not a whole lot different than her original skill and visual fx back at release.

Excalibur had a skill Merge, same as Rhino did, and both got a new skill added. But for cool and fancy fx?

Loki has had the exact same skills since ever. He still decoys, goes invisible, switch teleports, and disarms. Why aren't you trying to push out new ideas for him? Or any of the rest of the vanilla frames?

Rhino right now goes further than you're suggesting. Buffs better than the majority of new and old warframes, has useful skills throughout his entire skill kit, and many ways to build him.

If you're going to be so serious about changing him, give us, the community something that actually sounds good to us that we would support you for.

Can you do this?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Alcatraz

[Demiax]

4 minutes ago, Alcatraz said:

Didn't you quote me already? I feel you need to go back through your ideas and revise them a little more. You might your ideas appealing, but you've been getting a lot of feedback from players being against it.

You shall notice that Rhino is old, an a classic warframe, these are new and more modern. You will notice that while Mag has had a rework of sorts, she hasn't gotten anything in the way of new fancy skills or fx, that make her new and modern, change sure, but not a whole lot different than her original skill and visual fx back at release.

Excalibur had a skill Merge, same as Rhino did, and both got a new skill added. But for cool and fancy fx?

Loki has had the exact same skills since ever. He still decoys, goes invisible, switch teleports, and disarms. Why aren't you trying to push out new ideas for him? Or any of the rest of the vanilla frames?

Rhino right now goes further than you're suggesting. Buffs better than the majority of new and old warframes, has useful skills throughout his entire skill kit, and many ways to build him.

If you're going to be so serious about changing him, give us, the community something that actually sounds good to us that we would support you for.

Can you do this?

I'm not pushing out any new abilities for those frames because I main Rhino. He's been my favorite frame for 4-3 years, he was the frame I looked forward to getting right after Excal.

"If you're going to be so serious about changing him, give us, the community something that actually sounds good to us that we would support you for.

Can you do this?"

What? That literally makes no sense considering thats the reason why I made this thread...

 

[Alcatraz]

It should be clear with the feed back you've gotten from me, and everybody else that this right here that you're suggesting has next to no support. What I am suggesting to you is to try something else that actually sounds good.

Because you're really hell-bent on these ideas and changing the Warframe, you can't see the majority of us are saying No. No matter how much you counter, we're still saying no.

But what else I am saying? I'm saying you need to try something else that we can support. Need I explain this further?

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Alcatraz

[True_Naeblis]

40 minutes ago, Demiax said:

Excal gets a total ability overhaul but Rhino can't? 

He doesn't need it. A total overhaul is just going to lead to bugs and screwing up his kit. Look at what happened with Ash and Limbo, not exactly well-received reworks and for good reason. Rhino P's setup is great overall, it just need tweaks. His base armor needs to go up so that he's not garbage without his Iron Skin on, especially considering his only real saving grace is his 4 in an emergency, which burns a ton of energy. He needs more energy so that he can reliably buff the group and provide CCs efficiently without sacrificing other parts of his setup, and his passive needs more range and a guaranteed knock down, that's about it.

You're asking for way too much, and needlessly so.

[Kezriak]

20 hours ago, Calvyr said:

I play Rhino a fair amount, easily one of my favourite frames and I have to say that I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with him. Any of the "problems" you mentioned are fixed with augments to his abilities or are simply good for balance. His survivablity scales ridiculously high when you use Ironclad Charge and build for armour and power strength, not to mention that Iron Skin grants immunity from status effects. There is already an augment to allow him to shed his Iron Skin (which I use in conjunction with Ironclad Charge). His stomp is one of the better CC abilities in the game. and the augment for that ability (Reinforcing Stomp) can also be surprisingly useful for keeping Iron Skin topped up, especially when you build for range and efficiency.Roar is a straight up buff to squadmates, which is also very useful.

In short, there's nothing wrong with Rhino or his abilities, they don't need to be changed.

yea I don't wanna join on the hate-o-rade train, but where on Earth are all this ideas for RHINO of al lframes needing a rework coming from? Plenty of other frames like Ash, Hydroid and so on need some love, Rhino is damn near perfect as is, he CAN be better but really doesn't need this much work.

[shut]

16 hours ago, Demiax said:

Not sure why you couldn't just tell me your opinion in a nicer manner, instead of obviously putting in belittling remarks and apologizing before hand... what? I have been playing for 4 years as well, you think I don't know how to use Rhino? I know how to use him, and i'm bored of his linear, and lame Charge attack that looks like so many other 1st abilties. This thread is to make Rhino a top tier frame, who has a new set of refreshed abilties that Vets such as myself can play around with. I will apologize in advance, but I thoroughly disagree with everything you are saying here. Rhino Charge now makes it so people have more control of where to go, and makes Rhino seem heavier, as he should be, as well as making him more of a buffer and tank frame.

I'm a bit less-than-fond of people taking a playstyle that I absolutely love, and suggesting that the devs change it into something totally unrecognizable. Not that this magically excuses my being rude, of course; so again, forgive me for being rude.

 

That aside: in your posts, you keep going on about how Rhino isn't top-tier, and that Charge is somehow difficult to control.
Saying that you were inexperienced with Rhino was a bit presumptuous of me-- after all, I don't know anything about you or how much you play Rhino. But what I DO know is that I don't suffer from the problems you describe, and that other Rhino-playing forumers don't suffer these problems either. I rarely see people calling augmented Iron Skin too weak, and I have literally never seen someone call Charge difficult to control.

I'm trying to stay objective here... but I think your problem with Rhino's viability is your problem alone, and not a problem with the frame itself. I'm not saying this to be a butthead or anything-- it's just that there's a very clear difference between the feedback that you're giving, and the feedback given by most other experienced Rhino players.

Edited July 20, 2017 by SortaRandom

[Demiax]

16 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

I'm a bit less-than-fond of people taking a playstyle that I absolutely love, and suggesting that the devs change it into something totally unrecognizable. Not that this magically excuses my being rude, of course; so again, forgive me for being rude.

 

That aside: in your posts, you keep going on about how Rhino isn't top-tier, and that Charge is somehow difficult to control.
Saying that you were inexperienced with Rhino was a bit presumptuous of me-- after all, I don't know anything about you or how much you play Rhino. But what I DO know is that I don't suffer from the problems you describe, and that other Rhino-playing forumers don't suffer these problems either. I rarely see people calling augmented Iron Skin too weak, and I have literally never seen someone call Charge difficult to control.

I'm trying to stay objective here... but I think your problem with Rhino's viability is your problem alone, and not a problem with the frame itself. I'm not saying this to be a butthead or anything-- it's just that there's a very clear difference between the feedback that you're giving, and the feedback given by most other experienced Rhino players.

Charge goes in a straight line, so hitting the enemies you want to, without wasting energy, doesnt always happen. My revision just makes it easier to aim. If youre worried about the escapeability of my revision, why don't you propose an idea to improve it? Thats the point of constructive feedback, after all. I don't have much of a problem with running off of maps, because I dont use that ability often enough for it to happen, and I don't use the augments for Rhino, although I do have them, because they are simply boring and a waste of space. I want Rhinos abilities to be spiced up a little, and yes, changing them the way I have mentioned is my own view of how I would like this to happen. Rhino needs changes, whether it be aesthetically speaking or not, the problems are there. Charge is not pleasing to use at all, imo. It's just a dumbed down slash dash that cant chain to enemies. Iron Skins augment needs to be integrated into the ability itself. I was playing on a sortie against physically enhanced corpus who, a few rounds later, began to completey destroy my Iron Skin, and killing me before I could reactivate it, I used all of my revives on that sortie mission, and i'm an experienced player, but theres no way to survive with Rhino (in those circumstances) when cornered by 25 Moas blasting you all at once. The problem here is that people don't want Rhino to be changed too drastically, and to be honest with you, I don't even like the looks of Exalted Blade, it looks weak, wimpy, and like a little floating sliver... not too cool. Can you not say that my revisions to Rhino would not make him more fun to play? Also, please take some time to revise over the abilities instead of disagreeing with them as a whole. Try and come back with constructive criticism, meaning feedback to help improve and change what I already mentioned. 

[MartianGHunter]

Just gonna give a bit of my 2cents from the OP.

I play Rhino as a support with 200% power strength 160% range and 90% duration and a decent efficiency of 115%.

Why is this important? 

This gives me a good damage buff good damage mitigation on my Iron skin and good CC. 

Why is that important? 

It means at higher levels I'm using all my abilities and weapons to keep me alive by higher levels I mean level 100+ anything below that barely touches me.

Now from your rework suggestion it seems you don't have that much experience playing Rhino in a more cohesive manner because if you do you would realise his actually in all honesty perfect expect that you need his ironskin augument to make him perfect that's his only problem which is more of a balancing thing to prevent newer players from having a God tier frame with zero effort. 

So I suggest play rhino more and use a better build thats why there is so much push back on your ideas cause there is nothing wrong with the frames but there must be something wrong with the way your modding and playing him.