Trinity change bored of spamming.

[IfritKajiTora]

Nekros third ability "Desecrate" was already changed to turn ON and forget, you don't need to spam it over and over, but Trinity energy vampire is still 2,2,2,2,2, it's just:


The more you spam, the more team mates spam their abilities, which is literally overpowered, and boring at the same time, while Trinity already heals and giving damage reduction for team mates.

Changes to Trinity:
1. "Well of life" it's just useless because there is blessing.
Well of life should be AoE effect, all enemies in range of 25meters from Trinity when damaged should give health to the attacker, 15% healed of dealt damage, affected by power strength.

2."Energy Vampire" change name to "Energy Share". Turn ON or OFF.
Trinity uses her energy to give her team mates: One pulse per 3 seconds, losing 10 energy per pulse, team mates in range of 25meters gain 10 energy per pulse affected by power strength. [10 energy converted to total 30 energy (one lose 15 energy but 3 others gain 15 energy, so 10x3 = 30energy)].

3. "Link"
Link should stay as it is, but to that Trinity by Link should drain energy from linked targets: 2.5 energy per second for each enemy, affected by power strength.

4. "Blessing"
Should stay as it is now, no changes.

This way trinity will not be 2,2,2,2,2,2 spamming over and over giving 150+ energy per second. Now the effect will be slower and for Trinity it's not for free, She will need to gain energy from enemies by using Link, and for her energy gain is not very fast.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

16 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Changes to Trinity:
1. "Well of life" it's just useless because there is blessing.
Well of life should be AoE effect, all enemies in range of 25meters from Trinity when damaged should give health to the attacker, 15% healed of dealt damage, affected by power strength.

2."Energy Vampire" change name to "Energy Share". Turn ON or OFF.
Trinity uses her energy to give her team mates: One pulse per 3 seconds, losing 10 energy per pulse, team mates in range of 25meters gain 10 energy per pulse affected by power strength. [10 energy converted to total 30 energy (one lose 15 energy but 3 others gain 15 energy, so 10x3 = 30energy)].

3. "Link"
Link should stay as it is, but to that Trinity by Link should drain energy from linked targets: 2.5 energy per second for each enemy, affected by power strength.

4. "Blessing"
Should stay as it is now, no changes.

This way trinity will not be 2,2,2,2,2,2 spamming over and over giving 150+ energy per second. Now the effect will be slower and for Trinity it's not for free, She will need to gain energy from enemies by using Link, and for her energy gain is not very fast.

1- 15% of what damage though?
It's to be noted that we can reach more than a thousand damage in a matter of milliseconds, 15% of that would be 150+ health in a radius of 25 meters every time you hit one enemy. ( It's a horde game, expect 5-10x that )

2- Not exactly useful for Trinity herself, she might be support be she doesn't necessarily gain something from using this power. I'm not against Trinity sharing her energy pool, but do give her a major Whatever Buff when she does.

3- Not bad

4- Do require an explanation on the first change you've made though, the current 75% damage reduction for 15-20 seconds do sound good for an ultimate, but 150-400+ health every milliseconds from a self-cast AoE sounds like it could potentially cast shadows on Blessing.

Edited July 20, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[(PSN)rengence]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say you are bored of Trinity because spamming EV for your camping team is overpowered? 

Trinity has 75% dmg reduction with ~150% power str with blessing and combined with the 75% * (100-75%) with link to give 93.75% overall dmg reduction. The remaining dmg not negated will 1 shot you if the enemy if above lvl 175. 

Her dmg reduction is not an issue.

you need to constantly use abilities to stay alive, thus ev, and if you even want to go higher levels you will need abating link augment to help reduce armor. 99.9% with 222% power strength and to achieve this without sacrificing too much range/efficiency/ duration will need about 5-7 formas.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)rengence said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say you are bored of Trinity because spamming EV for your camping team is overpowered? 

Trinity has 75% dmg reduction with ~150% power str with blessing and combined with the 75% * (100-75%) with link to give 93.75% overall dmg reduction. The remaining dmg not negated will 1 shot you if the enemy if above lvl 175. 

Her dmg reduction is not an issue.

you need to constantly use abilities to stay alive, thus ev, and if you even want to go higher levels you will need abating link augment to help reduce armor. 99.9% with 222% power strength and to achieve this without sacrificing too much range/efficiency/ duration will need about 5-7 formas.

The damage reduction wasn't mentioned as an issue though, as "Link" and "Blessing" mechanics weren't changed in the opening post.

The need to constantly use abilities make the Trinity experience very mundane and boring.
It's very not game-efficient when you're forced to use 3 powers every 5-10 seconds, the cast time and all that makes it almost too repetitive.
Keeping an eye on Health+Blessing DR, plus keeping link up as well as keeping your team and your own energy up leaves for very little shooting time unless you decide to not take the "Team" path and play for yourself while supporting your team as a collateral of you playing normally. ( Which is a great thing to do, don't misunderstand me )

However, the general wave of people will start cursing at you if their energy/health goes down even a little because "Trinity is here, Trinity should do this and this".
Which by itself further reinforce the need for a "Support" trinity, the one Evamp/overshield maniac that only press 2 and 4 for the whole game without shooting a single time.

The amount of Forma you put in a frame serve as a very poor argument when considering how powerful a frame is.
It takes like... 1 hour max to put 5-8 formas on a frame. Anyone can do it and there's no progression or skill involved in that.

Edited July 20, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[(PSN)rengence]

You didn't mention the dmg reduction and synergy of her abilities which is why I brought it up in the first place. Also never said formas = powerful. The point was to show what is required to mod her for good synergy. I also left out the use of corrupted mods which is the reason for the amount of formas. 

And should you really mod your frame for other players? If you are using Trin for high content, do those other players really need energy? 

[yles9056]

I honestly think Well of Life should focus on other functions other than healing. 

[xontix627]

That's just on you though, for all I care they could just remove giving energy to teammates or make it so that it's on a cooldown for giving it to your teammates.

EV for Trinity herself continues to work as it currently does allowing her to at least be the pick me up person when your team is dead, but for your mates they would only get EV every X seconds between casts.

Like pop one, teammates get it, then they have to wait X seconds in order to get another one.

Bottom line, I don't want them touching Trinity's ability to self-sustain herself in higher levels of play, especially when she has no actual method to kill besides shooting and meleeing. Giving energy to teammates is just a bonus to me.

[(XBOX)FallenEagle1238]

On 7/20/2017 at 1:48 PM, IfritKajiTora said:

Nekros third ability "Desecrate" was already changed to turn ON and forget, you don't need to spam it over and over, but Trinity energy vampire is still 2,2,2,2,2, it's just:


The more you spam, the more team mates spam their abilities, which is literally overpowered, and boring at the same time, while Trinity already heals and giving damage reduction for team mates.

Changes to Trinity:
1. "Well of life" it's just useless because there is blessing.
Well of life should be AoE effect, all enemies in range of 25meters from Trinity when damaged should give health to the attacker, 15% healed of dealt damage, affected by power strength.

2."Energy Vampire" change name to "Energy Share". Turn ON or OFF.
Trinity uses her energy to give her team mates: One pulse per 3 seconds, losing 10 energy per pulse, team mates in range of 25meters gain 10 energy per pulse affected by power strength. [10 energy converted to total 30 energy (one lose 15 energy but 3 others gain 15 energy, so 10x3 = 30energy)].

3. "Link"
Link should stay as it is, but to that Trinity by Link should drain energy from linked targets: 2.5 energy per second for each enemy, affected by power strength.

4. "Blessing"
Should stay as it is now, no changes.

This way trinity will not be 2,2,2,2,2,2 spamming over and over giving 150+ energy per second. Now the effect will be slower and for Trinity it's not for free, She will need to gain energy from enemies by using Link, and for her energy gain is not very fast.

you don't have to spam her 2, it's a choice quit crying 

[Hoangviet1996]

Modding would be problematic if this were to happen

[IfritKajiTora]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)KOR Falleneagle said:

you don't have to spam her 2, it's a choice quit crying 

Tell that other people that are typing on chat TRIN EV!! Why don't you EV!! And rage quit..... Writing that you are the Worst Trinity ever.
While I'm using EV but not spamming that much because I don't need that much energy, while other people see trinity and start to spam abilities all over the place with low efficiency or non efficiency builds.

Edited July 24, 2017 by IfritKajiTora

[Wyrmius_Prime]

10 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Tell that other people that are typing on chat TRIN EV!! Why don't you EV!! And rage quit.....
While I'm using EV but not spamming that much because I don't need that much energy, while other people see trinity and start to spam abilities all over the place with low efficiency or non efficiency builds.

Tell them to shut it and leave the mission. They aren't forced to play with you. That usually shuts them for good.

My problem with EV personally is that building for it destroys the build for every other ability. Link and Blessing completely rely on high power duration while the desired EV build relies on the absolute minimum power duration possible. Trinity needs some changes tbh.

[Sloan441]

7 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Tell them to shut it and leave the mission. They aren't forced to play with you.

A bit harsh, but true enough. I use EV fairly frequently, but since the 'team' usually isn't within affinity range to begin with, well...I benefit from it. Whether anyone else does or not is entirely on them.

 

9 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

My problem with EV personally is that building for it destroys the build for every other ability. Link and Blessing completely rely on high power duration while the desired EV build relies on the absolute minimum power duration possible.

This is why I don't build around EV exclusively. It's a bad build in so many ways and basically makes what is one of the most powerful and flexible warframes in the game into a one-trick pony...and not a very entertaining trick at that. A link/blessing Trin is of far more benefit to the team (assuming they play like a team) and far more interesting to the player as well.

If energy recovery is that important to people, why aren't you using Zenurik? It's basically a license to spam.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

If energy recovery is that important to people, why aren't you using Zenurik? It's basically a license to spam.

And just like that if damage reduction and healing are important to you, why aren't you playing a tank? Or a stealth frame so you don't take any damage to begin with? EV can be just as useful as a Blessing/Link Trinity depending on the squad. If you're playing a frame with passive abilities, Zenurik is dead to you.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Wyrmius_Prime

[Sloan441]

Just now, Wyrmius_Prime said:

And just like that if damage reduction and healing are important to you, why aren't you playing a tank? Or a stealth frame so you don't take any damage to begin with? EV can be just as useful as a Blessing/Link Trinity depending on the squad. If you're playing a frame with passive abilities, Zenurik is dead to you.

Not entirely true.

A Link/Blessing Trinity is a very tough warframe. She can support others in extreme environments. Everything is subject to affinity range, however, so she has to be able to survive in affinity range. EV Trins can't. At least, not easily.

I'll submit that EV Trins aren't very useful. You can build a synergistic team around one, but someone still has to play it and it's not fun to play. So you can play as an enabler for someone else, or you can play something interesting that is actually flexible enough to be useful in a variety of situations.

Zenurik doesn't work during channeling, but it sure does when you're outside the channeled ability. Better to have than not have. Of course, the real key is not having to drop the channeled ability and that comes back to having a proper mix of recovery and efficiency. If you can't be bothered to of this, why should Trinity be bothered to cover for your substandard build strategies?

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 minute ago, Sloan441 said:

Not entirely true.

A Link/Blessing Trinity is a very tough warframe. She can support others in extreme environments. Everything is subject to affinity range, however, so she has to be able to survive in affinity range. EV Trins can't. At least, not easily.

I'll submit that EV Trins aren't very useful. You can build a synergistic team around one, but someone still has to play it and it's not fun to play. So you can play as an enabler for someone else, or you can play something interesting that is actually flexible enough to be useful in a variety of situations.

Zenurik doesn't work during channeling, but it sure does when you're outside the channeled ability. Better to have than not have. Of course, the real key is not having to drop the channeled ability and that comes back to having a proper mix of recovery and efficiency. If you can't be bothered to of this, why should Trinity be bothered to cover for your substandard build strategies?

Most Trinities however seem to ''bother to cover my substandard builds'', seeing as majority of Trinities are indeed EVs. This might be because of the short base durations of Blessing and Link, 10 and 12 seconds respectively, which is exactly the reason why I would like to see changes for Trinity.

Saryn used to suffer from the same problem as well. She was a one-tricker with her Miasma since minimum duration increased the damage per tick and ultimately the total damage of Miasma. Now she is arguably the best debuffer in the whole game because of the changes made to her ability kit.

I'm not saying Trinity is bad at any means, but she could be better since she is getting a bit outdated compared to the newer frames.

[Sloan441]

I wouldn't mind seeing an increase in the base durations of Link and Blessing. It would certainly make life easier when keeping timers rolling and offset (much like Mesa with Shattershield and Shooting Gallery). It might ease some of the disconnect between EV focused builds and L/B builds with increased build possibilities.

However, if you never face anything of much past lvl50ish, none of this will really matter. An EV build can get by and keep enabling if you never face anything that really taxes her limited survivability. My guess is most don't see this situation, or only see it from the confines of a sewer pipe somewhere.

I've had the latter request (plea?) of my Trinity. It was ignored. I don't like playing that way. "Come with me if you want to live...".

Edited July 24, 2017 by Sloan441
Editing fail

[xontix627]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:32 AM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

And just like that if damage reduction and healing are important to you, why aren't you playing a tank? Or a stealth frame so you don't take any damage to begin with? EV can be just as useful as a Blessing/Link Trinity depending on the squad. If you're playing a frame with passive abilities, Zenurik is dead to you.

Invisibility and Damage Reduction aren't necessarily the same system, notice how the two frames with Invis are relatively fragile and if caught outside of Invis are basically dead. On top of that you have to carry a specific load out in order to not get caught while in invisibility and have fire up your butt.

You don't have those problems with Trinity, you aren't limited to a specific weapon load out or losing out on a slot because you need a gun silenced and are free to basically move around without too much hindrance towards where you are with respect to your enemies.

[InDueTime-EN-]

Having an AoE well of life would be good. I assume that only the person hitting the unit gets healed and not giving out an AoE heal.

 

I don't like this energy vampire. It is still passive and you get a lot less over all. I would suggest that you use the mechanic of well of life where you have to hit the target to spread the energy so that the faster you kill something the faster you get the energy. But if no one hits the affected unit, it will give no energy. This will make the skill more active.

I'm fine with the current link and bless, but in the spirit of nerfing trinity, what do you guys think about requiring link for bless's damage reduction and maybe just add something like a health boost to bless instead of the damage reduction?  

[Sloan441]

9 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 

I'm fine with the current link and bless, but in the spirit of nerfing trinity, what do you guys think about requiring link for bless's damage reduction and maybe just add something like a health boost to bless instead of the damage reduction?  

How about "no" and the latter is the same thing.

The strength of a L/B Trin is the stacking damage reductions of Link and Blessing. Mess with this and you run the risk of seriously screwing up the 'frame. She wouldn't be able to survive in the environments she's needed most in. It also would reduce flexibility. In many missions, I don't need to run both and don't if the team is getting along OK. It's less work for me. However, if things start to get dicey, I can ramp up my game and cover for it--assuming everyone stays in affinity range.

The second is simply a decision of how to display hit points. It's all the same in the end. Whether it's ablative health, damage reduction, or just massive hit point pools, it's all the same thing in the end: effective health. It's just more interesting when it's part of a system and not just big numbers.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Won't shameless plug my own rework thread.

but My "rework" to her EV basically tuns the enemy into a totem that is "invincible" like nyx's mind controlled target or nidus's linked target.

The targeted enemy will constantly seep energy.  Which how fast and how much is dictated by efficiency and strength.

Allies can shoot the totem to get bigger bursts of energy at the target.  The amount they get back is also dictated by strength.

It would still damage the enemy in the same mannor EV does now.

the one big thing to take away from these changes though is that once the enemy "dies" it no longer seeps energy.  and allies have to shoot it in order for energy to come out.

 

The idea behind this is 2 fold.  it becomes a set it and forget it ability for trinity.  which means she has more time to move about the field or fight.  at the same time allies are required to know where this totem is.  and interact with it eventually if they want to continue up their power spam.  instead of basically ignoring where their support is or what she's up to.  creating less brain dead play and more strategic play.

in my thread I gave the same mechanics to her "Well of life" ability.  But it also does some other things besides heal.  and it comes out in pulses rather than being constant.  if you're interested I can link the thread.