Full Weapon rebalance, feedback welcome.

[Elvangreen]

Due to Size and complexity, Full balance is now located on the info section of my profile while i balance out the last few weapons.

Comments still welcome, feedback appreciated.

Rebalance expanded to all frames, working on it offline and will upload when done.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Elvangreen

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Wrong forum. Try the Feedback/Weapons subforum.

[Elvangreen]

30 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Wrong forum. Try the Feedback/Weapons subforum.

I am after feedback from the wider community before i submit it to the developers attention.

its likely other players will spot things i missed.

EDIT: looks like a moderator agreed with you, we in weapons land now.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Elvangreen

[babywrath]

wait a sec.. did you make this up or is this a legit update? What patch is this from?

[-N7-Leonhart]

Buffs for the underused weapons are always welcome, +1 

But you know what's funny? With all those buffs lately the Meta is so confused, that they chose to stick with their same old weapons  Fine by me though, these newly buffed powerhouses would be ruined if they would turn meta all of a sudden.

One thing to note though, there is no actual effective difference between MR0 and MR1 or 2. The players will reach MR2 by leveling all of their starting gear, I am sure no one will pick advanced weapons until then. A significant rank is MR4 at least, I would say.

Edited July 20, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[Elvangreen]

7 minutes ago, babywrath said:

wait a sec.. did you make this up or is this a legit update? What patch is this from?

Its not official... unfortunately. and its still very much a WIP, as i have not even covered secondaries or melee yet.

[BalancedFury]

bro no no no why you waste so much time 

[Elvangreen]

3 minutes ago, BalancedFury said:

bro no no no why you waste so much time 

Still got 2 weeks till second semester of uni starts, so yeah...

Edited July 20, 2017 by Elvangreen

[tedbearr]

5 minutes ago, BalancedFury said:

bro no no no why you waste so much time 

The only time he wasted is yours if you read this post lmao

 

but I do like the buffs to older weapons, makes me wanna use them.

[babywrath]

6 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Its not official... unfortunately. and its still very much a WIP, as i have not even covered secondaries or melee yet.

Oh okay. I thought I was about to completely regret selling away my multishot mod on the cernos prime. 

[xXDeadsinxX]

Yeah this is very needed. I fully support this.

[Elvangreen]

1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Yeah this is very needed. I fully support this.

Thanks, more support means more chance it will get noticed/implemented.

Also i am very happy to change this based on feedback.

2 minutes ago, babywrath said:

Oh okay. I thought I was about to completely regret selling away my multishot mod on the cernos prime. 

help me make it a reality : ), the fun will outweigh the regret.

5 minutes ago, Taedber said:

The only time he wasted is yours if you read this post lmao

 

but I do like the buffs to older weapons, makes me wanna use them.

Yeah, its pretty long and thats less than a third of the weapons. And your second point is the WHOLE intention of this.

[-MElHiOR-]

Well, i agreed with TS, but, there is one tiny problem with your idea... DE allready BUFFED weapons reacently. So its sad to say, but we wont see your offer happend. Its just cuz DE is... DE 

Better wait till Damage 3.0 comes to live, and than we may start thinking about what they shall do, and what we can offer.

[Elvangreen]

Formatting improvements and the reasoning behind each and every change will be coming within 24 hours, and the secondary and melee rebalances will be coming within 2-3 days.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Mousarchy]

asides from some things here and there i could argue or debate i mostly agree

but dont change depleted magazine. instead just put it on other weapons (I would LOVE to use this on something like tonkor or even torid)

[Elvangreen]

7 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

asides from some things here and there i could argue or debate i mostly agree

but dont change depleted magazine. instead just put it on other weapons (I would LOVE to use this on something like tonkor or even torid)

Please, point out any problems. and as for the mod, 1 second.

EDIT: OP updated.

> depleted reload universal to all rifle weapons, balance pass pending

> formatting updated.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Mousarchy]

15 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Please, point out any problems. and as for the mod, 1 second.

EDIT: OP updated.

> depleted reload universal to all rifle weapons, balance pass pending

> formatting updated.

well i like your ideas. I just think giving flat base armor shred MIGHT not be a good idea. mostly cuz with tiberon alt fire my personal tiberon would gain 120% armor shred.
but i do like the though of having some of my favorite burst rifles a decent buff. specially a ROF one on hind. thats been something we been asking for since its release.
and i approve of snipers getting punch.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Ordosan

[Elvangreen]

9 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

well i like your ideas. I just think giving flat base armor shred MIGHT not be a good idea. mostly cuz with tiberon alt fire my personal tiberon would gain 120% armor shred. but i do like the though of having some of my favorite burst rifles a decent buff. specially a ROF one on hind. thats been something we been asking for since its release.

Ahh, so the issue of multishot making that altfire strip far more. well i originally had a status version rather than the new armor-strip mechanic, so i could always revert that change.

3x 10% base strip = 30% (4 shots for full)

Splitchamber = 5.7 x 10% = 57% strip (2 shots for full, as planned)

and theoretical riven...

hmm ok

time to nerf the poor thing.

EDIT:

> lowered innate strip 10% > 5% per round, for 15% unmodded and ~29% average after split chamber

> buffed tiberon altfire 60 > 80 damage per round.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Somb3rBivalve]

I can tell there's a lot of work that went into this list. Well done. Those sniper changes are...interesting

However, I think there's a few weapons in here that you buffed that I didn't think needed much help which are mainly just the Zarr and Amprex

You may also want to be careful about too many flight speed increases. These weapons shouldn't feel like hitscan.

Now going into the details, that double base damage on the karak wraith and tiberon might be too much. I would also tread very carefully with the gorgon wraith versus prisma gorgon. In this list, it would seem that the gorgon wraith is VERY SLIGHTLY better (because of 5 higher base damage), but I think that they should be sidegrades of each other. Gorgon wraith for status while prisma gorgon for crit, which is how they are structured in-game right now and how you have structured it.

[o.0-]

Wanna just comment on the Bows, I feel that the arrow drop is a bit too soon, and that they can be much faster.

The Daikyu should really push into ~110 m/s territory, and other bows should be around ~95 m/s territory.

Current Compound Bows can range between ~90 to 100 m/s and the upper limits in current Bows used is right around ~110 m/s.

Since its Warframes using these Bows with tech from the future, they should have tougher materials and engineering that would allow for these arrow speeds.

The Attica and Zhuge should also be in the ~135 m/s range for comparison to Bows.

And there's this too:

Spoiler

 

 

[Elvangreen]

9 hours ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

I can tell there's a lot of work that went into this list. Well done. Those sniper changes are...interesting

However, I think there's a few weapons in here that you buffed that I didn't think needed much help which are mainly just the Zarr and Amprex

You may also want to be careful about too many flight speed increases. These weapons shouldn't feel like hitscan.

Now going into the details, that double base damage on the karak wraith and tiberon might be too much. I would also tread very carefully with the gorgon wraith versus prisma gorgon. In this list, it would seem that the gorgon wraith is VERY SLIGHTLY better (because of 5 higher base damage), but I think that they should be sidegrades of each other. Gorgon wraith for status while prisma gorgon for crit, which is how they are structured in-game right now and how you have structured it.

Zarr self-damage was buffed with the overall self damage risk = higher reward.

amprex ammo efficiency was buffed slightly, but will look into.

Flight speed increases are more because we are mooving into larger areas such as PoE and speeds that are well balanced in our normal tiles would likely feel horrible, but will look into.

Tiberon is intended for a pure dase damage over crit or status, and as such needs a hefty boost.

karak wraith i will take another look at, but i think it should be fairly ok.

And yeah the gorgons were a bit tricky to balance, prisma has larger mag, lower recoil and higher accuracy, and more crit, while wraith has more raw damage and status.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

4 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Wanna just comment on the Bows, I feel that the arrow drop is a bit too soon, and that they can be much faster.

The Daikyu should really push into ~110 m/s territory, and other bows should be around ~95 m/s territory.

Current Compound Bows can range between ~90 to 100 m/s and the upper limits in current Bows used is right around ~110 m/s.

Since its Warframes using these Bows with tech from the future, they should have tougher materials and engineering that would allow for these arrow speeds.

The Attica and Zhuge should also be in the ~135 m/s range for comparison to Bows.

And there's this too:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yeah will look into it, mainly for PoE balance.

[Windy_Wind]

I hope they would actually implement this but knowing DE, it's probably just a waste of brain power.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[Elvangreen]

Just now, Windy_Wind said:

I hope they would actually implement  this but knowing DE, it's probably just a waste of brain power.

Well, the best i can do is get everything balanced and out in the community, the next step is up to them.

[Elvangreen]

Op Updated:

> Gorgon wraith crit chance and damage lowered

> Karak Wraith damage lowered 60 > 50

> amprex status now unchanged (30% > 25%)

> Daikyu flight speed increased 100m/s > 110m/s

> Zarr bomblet damage now unchanged (55 > 50)

> Zarr main cannon bomb damage reduced 250 > 225

> Paris prime flight speed increased 90m/s > 95m/s

> Torid reload time tweaked 2.6s > 2.8s

> Attica and zhuge flight speed increased 90m/s > 100m/s and 95m/s respectively

 

 

[DrBorris]

Most changes seem pretty balanced, the only standout is that the Latron buffs (50% higher sustained DPS than Soma Prime, double the burst DPS) may be a bit overtuned but most else seems good. 

 

More specific feedback...

• Hind would still be representative of how it looks. I know it is not supposed to be a late game weapon, but it should not be that bad.
• As someone else pointed out, Gorgon Wraith/Prisma should fall better in the Status/Crit variances.
• That Tiberon buff is pretty insane, it puts it above even the Latrons in raw body-shot DPS (which is sorta okay as it does not have that 4x crit headshot multiplier for precision shots). Either it needs a further MR increase or maybe tone it down and save those beautiful stats for a Tiberon Prime. 
• Convectrix needs a reward for that spool up, maybe 100% status chance when beams have converged or like 3x damage. 
• For Cernos Prime, rather than an alt-fire switch what if charging your shots made the arrows converge? So you could rapid fire the spread or charge for the hardest hitting bow shot. It would give it a bit more personality than just a toggle and would make the spread worthwhile as you could rapid(ish) fire. 
• Any time I see a suggestion to buff Lanka's base damage I cringe a little, that thing's damage is so high it breaks my excel DPS calculator. All it really needs is QoL buffs (which you gave it).
• As for the slash/armor stripping things with snipers, it's weird. What if rather than % armor stripping, 20% of the damage is done directly to armor (like how Mag's Polarize works). This would make it so you could theoretically completely strip an enemies armor if you have enough damage. IMO % based damage in any form is BS as it invalidates scaling mechanics. And the slash procs should probably be linked to crit as they would be largely useless if they weren't. 

 

One personal gripe is the Braton Vandal fire rate buff. Right now it is the lowest RoF rifle in the game, tied with Mk1-Braton. For me personally the MK1-Braton is my favorite feeling gun to fire because of its lower fire rate, so seeing the one weapon that could be a late-game Mk1-Braton be made just like the other Bratons is losing a niche. 

I would keep the fire rate at 7.5 if not make it lower (and throw in some other buffs, maybe 20% crit, 2.5x multiplier)

 

And why move this to your profile? Kinda makes it hard to give feedback and some people may just dismiss the topic.