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Full Weapon rebalance, feedback welcome.


Elvangreen
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59 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Most changes seem pretty balanced, the only standout is that the Latron buffs (50% higher sustained DPS than Soma Prime, double the burst DPS) may be a bit overtuned but most else seems good. 

 

More specific feedback...

  • Hind would still be representative of how it looks. I know it is not supposed to be a late game weapon, but it should not be that bad.
  • As someone else pointed out, Gorgon Wraith/Prisma should fall better in the Status/Crit variances.
  • That Tiberon buff is pretty insane, it puts it above even the Latrons in raw body-shot DPS (which is sorta okay as it does not have that 4x crit headshot multiplier for precision shots). Either it needs a further MR increase or maybe tone it down and save those beautiful stats for a Tiberon Prime. 
  • Convectrix needs a reward for that spool up, maybe 100% status chance when beams have converged or like 3x damage. 
  • For Cernos Prime, rather than an alt-fire switch what if charging your shots made the arrows converge? So you could rapid fire the spread or charge for the hardest hitting bow shot. It would give it a bit more personality than just a toggle and would make the spread worthwhile as you could rapid(ish) fire. 
  • Any time I see a suggestion to buff Lanka's base damage I cringe a little, that thing's damage is so high it breaks my excel DPS calculator. All it really needs is QoL buffs (which you gave it).
  • As for the slash/armor stripping things with snipers, it's weird. What if rather than % armor stripping, 20% of the damage is done directly to armor (like how Mag's Polarize works). This would make it so you could theoretically completely strip an enemies armor if you have enough damage. IMO % based damage in any form is BS as it invalidates scaling mechanics. And the slash procs should probably be linked to crit as they would be largely useless if they weren't. 

 

One personal gripe is the Braton Vandal fire rate buff. Right now it is the lowest RoF rifle in the game, tied with Mk1-Braton. For me personally the MK1-Braton is my favorite feeling gun to fire because of its lower fire rate, so seeing the one weapon that could be a late-game Mk1-Braton be made just like the other Bratons is losing a niche. 

I would keep the fire rate at 7.5 if not make it lower (and throw in some other buffs, maybe 20% crit, 2.5x multiplier)

 

And why move this to your profile? Kinda makes it hard to give feedback and some people may just dismiss the topic. 

Thanks for the feedback, i will take another look at the things you mentioned.

The latrons still require aiming, unlike stuff like the ignis, but yeah i will give them another look, maybe reverting the recoil changes to lower actual DPS in practice and nudging damage slightly.

For cernos its hard to put a  new charge mechanic on a charge weapon

Convectrix will have another pass, no problems.

Lanka has lost combo counter and zoom bonuses, so damage increases are to balance that. But i will give it another pass sure.

Damage to armor like mag falls off HARD and early, but due to sniper raw damage that might be a decent idea, ill calculate dps and armor values for enemies and see appropriate timespans.

And sure, ill mess with the vandal, i can easily lower RoF and nudge damage up.

Slash proc was gimped intentionally for balance.

 

Its on my profile as i am currently working on it heavily, once the secondary and melee changes are done i will repost the entirety.

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41 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Thanks for the feedback, i will take another look at the things you mentioned.

The latrons still require aiming, unlike stuff like the ignis, but yeah i will give them another look, maybe reverting the recoil changes to lower actual DPS in practice and nudging damage slightly.

For cernos its hard to put a  new charge mechanic on a charge weapon

Convectrix will have another pass, no problems.

Lanka has lost combo counter and zoom bonuses, so damage increases are to balance that. But i will give it another pass sure.

Damage to armor like mag falls off HARD and early, but due to sniper raw damage that might be a decent idea, ill calculate dps and armor values for enemies and see appropriate timespans.

And sure, ill mess with the vandal, i can easily lower RoF and nudge damage up.

Slash proc was gimped intentionally for balance.

 

Its on my profile as i am currently working on it heavily, once the secondary and melee changes are done i will repost the entirety.

Well, the soma requires aiming as well. I am not sure the Latron buffs are completely out of line, I just wanted to point out how far they were able to out-class the current "top tier" rifle.

Not sure why it is hard.

...

Mm, after looking at my calculator again, you may not be so off base with the Lanka changes. 

A level 75 Bombard has around 5000 (95%DR) armor, a single shot from Rubico deals around 25000 damage. That would mean that a single shot from Rubico, if 20% of damage removed armor, would pretty much completely strip armor. A level 100 Bombard has around 8000 armor, so two shots from Rubico and it will be at no armor. The bigger question would be if the actual damage would be calculated before or after the armor strip (probably after for balancing sake). And damage is supposed to fall off, that is the point of scaling. 

...

It is one thing to gimp for balance (which the reduced base damage already does), but having it be unaffected by crit on a crit weapon will make it more of a useless gimmick. With your suggestion that 120 base damage will turn into only 318 slash damage per second (for 7 seconds), or 2226 health damage. By the time you are not one-shotting enemies, that slash proc will be a drop in the ocean, especially if you are already stripping armor. 

 

Edit: I just noticed I had a few settings off in my calculator (I had it set to crit only with the current Rubico). So, the damage with your buffs would actually bring Rubico to an average of around 30000 damage per shot (from 16000 now). Just as a note, that is higher than your Vectis Prime buff (29000) while currently Vectis Prime has a higher DPH than Rubico (18k vs 16k). 

Edited by DrBorris
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31 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Well, the soma requires aiming as well. I am not sure the Latron buffs are completely out of line, I just wanted to point out how far they were able to out-class the current "top tier" rifle.

Not sure why it is hard.

...

Mm, after looking at my calculator again, you may not be so off base with the Lanka changes. 

A level 75 Bombard has around 5000 (95%DR) armor, a single shot from Rubico deals around 25000 damage. That would mean that a single shot from Rubico, if 20% of damage removed armor, would pretty much completely strip armor. A level 100 Bombard has around 8000 armor, so two shots from Rubico and it will be at no armor. The bigger question would be if the actual damage would be calculated before or after the armor strip (probably after for balancing sake). And damage is supposed to fall off, that is the point of scaling. 

...

It is one thing to gimp for balance (which the reduced base damage already does), but having it be unaffected by crit on a crit weapon will make it more of a useless gimmick. With your suggestion that 120 base damage will turn into only 318 slash damage per second (for 7 seconds), or 2226 health damage. By the time you are not one-shotting enemies, that slash proc will be a drop in the ocean, especially if you are already stripping armor. 

^ in progress of changes. slash procs now only occur on headshots and are affected onlu by +damage mods, but base damage is now 500 and 600, and slash proc deals 125% base, and then the theoretical +135% from serration putting it at 1468 and 1762 finisher damage respectively. This is also not intended to be the main sorce of damage, just a little boost for a good aim.

Also damage calculated before armor strip would make more sense, in that absorbing the force breaks the armor.

Edited by Elvangreen
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OP Updated:

> Latron damage tweaked

> tiberon damage tweaked

> sniper rifle armor strip tweaked

> lanka dps tweaked

> braton vandal tweaked

> vectis series slash-proc now requires headshot and deals more damage.

> Hind damage buffed on altfire, and RoF buffed on primary fire.

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I think you should just leave the list on the front page 1 as it used to be, it's faster and easier for people to see and search for. If people come in and don't see it on the front page, it would just turn them off and they would most likely just go back out.

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14 hours ago, Windy_Wind said:

I think you should just leave the list on the front page 1 as it used to be, it's faster and easier for people to see and search for. If people come in and don't see it on the front page, it would just turn them off and they would most likely just go back out.

I will return it within the next 2 days, finishing up the secondary and melee rebalances

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17 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Edit: I just noticed I had a few settings off in my calculator (I had it set to crit only with the current Rubico). So, the damage with your buffs would actually bring Rubico to an average of around 30000 damage per shot (from 16000 now). Just as a note, that is higher than your Vectis Prime buff (29000) while currently Vectis Prime has a higher DPH than Rubico (18k vs 16k). 

Vectis also has the slash proc on headshots, for about 4500 finisher damage after serration and split chamber, and i have just tweaked its damage up 390 > 400. Thanks for the note.

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