Players playing "only for challenges" (Lunaro)

[Funki0]

Before any of you go into any kind of hate or negative comments, I would like you to hear me out.
So I have seen this for a long time now. People keep joining matches, doing nothing, just to earn afk standing or asking to get the challenges "for free". I simply don't think this should be a thing. Challenges are called "challenges" for a reason. They are not called "gifts".
People then proceed to complain about the people that won't let them get free rewards. Those "rewards" wouldn't have any purpose if everyone would do this.
People should actually try to play the game mode (Lunaro in this case) to try to get their challenges done, instead of complaining after a single match. I mean it is really not such a problem when you can't get every challenge in a single match. You just start another match and get it.
My personal problem with those people is them wanting you to give it to them for free and I don't support that. Yes, I may help them when they are being nice, but I usually just play casually and try to get my challenges while playing with them to get them theirs aswell.

Another problem that is kind of annoying is the fact that there are a lot of people with a higher conclave rank who haven't even played Lunaro once or at least not properly. They just sat back and let other people gift them their "challenges". That is simply not right. Too many people are in the higher ranks without any kind of experience while complaining about people that actually earned their rank being better and winning against them. Well, that is no surprise, since unlike those people, the actual higher ranks have the experience to earn a lot more standing while getting their challenges done, because they are trying to do it from the start.
People should get put into situations in which they have to actually earn their rewards instead of being able to get it given to them for free.

[Cyriann]

You are right on everything you say but let me add my point of view to it. 

 I have personally tried to play Lunaro from its very beginning, but got driven off of it by players that were acting... Extremely rudely, be they far superior in mastery of the game being impossible to catch and scoring so much that the match has no interest in being played, this typewould simply answer by "Git gud and catch me" or others simply talking and acting like S#&$ during the entirety of the game. Which is not what I'm looking for in a game. 

Adding to this the fact I CANNOT play lots of runs each days, if I had not completely given up on anything Conclave related I would be one of those asking for help to do the challenges before playing the match, simply so that I could then play without aiming at them and thus actually have fun playing Lunaro.

[Funki0]

That is something I hear occasionally. Those players.
I don't really understand how beginners would complain about seeing those people in their match. If they are really new to Lunaro, they shouldn't be able to see those people, unless they are doing what I already mentioned, which is being in the higher ranks without actually deserving it or those people actually being exceptions, because experienced players like that should not be in the lower ranks like that.
You can't take experienced players as the average in lower ranks, but it is normal in the higher ranks. There is no excuse for that in the upper ranks.

[(PSN)DAVE-WF]

Let's face it, Lunaro is bad - it's concept was nice and all, but the execution is... meh to say the least, so I'm not really surprised that ppl want just get their sht done and move on. You like Lunaro? Good for you. Warframe is all about grinding, you can't deny - some things are put behind conclave - heliocor, simulor, skins, syadanas - ppl are just grinding it the easy way because they dont like conclave yet they want the rewards - same kinda thing is with ppl using naramon and acting pr0 or any other kind of cheesing. It's always been there and most probably always will be. I think you know well enough, after being in the game that when one door is closed, ppl will find another. 

[Cyriann]

6 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

That is something I hear occasionally. Those players.
I don't really understand how beginners would complain about seeing those people in their match. If they are really new to Lunaro, they shouldn't be able to see those people, unless they are doing what I already mentioned, which is being in the higher ranks without actually deserving it or those people actually being exceptions, because experienced players like that should not be in the lower ranks like that.
You can't take experienced players as the average in lower ranks, but it is normal in the higher ranks. There is no excuse for that in the upper ranks.

You talk about ranks, but they don't exist. At least to my knowledge, which is the reason why people get turned off Lunaro. 

[(PSN)DAVE-WF]

3 minutes ago, Cyriann said:

You talk about ranks, but they don't exist. At least to my knowledge, which is the reason why people get turned off Lunaro. 

He talks about conclave ranks - Typhoon and such, they do exist, after achieving one you go to tenshin to level it. Also as a newbie in conclave you have the option to not to play with experienced players theres a checkbox for that - idr its name tho.

[Funki0]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)DAVE-WF said:

Let's face it, Lunaro is bad - it's concept was nice and all, but the execution is... meh to say the least, so I'm not really surprised that ppl want just get their sht done and move on. You like Lunaro? Good for you. Warframe is all about grinding, you can't deny - some things are put behind conclave - heliocor, simulor, skins, syadanas - ppl are just grinding it the easy way because they dont like conclave yet they want the rewards - same kinda thing is with ppl using naramon and acting pr0 or any other kind of cheesing. It's always been there and most probably always will be. I think you know well enough, after being in the game that when one door is closed, ppl will find another. 

That is exactly the kind of comment I would have liked to avoid. Couldn't you word it differently? Lunaro is not bad. You just need to understand how it works first before you can say anything about it. THAT is a problem. Things like dribbling are not explain to the new player, which makes them think it's a bad mode or it's unfair, while they are just more experienced than the newer player.

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DAVE-WF said:

He talks about conclave ranks - Typhoon and such, they do exist, after achieving one you go to tenshin to level it. Also as a newbie in conclave you have the option to not to play with experienced players theres a checkbox for that - idr its name tho.

Recruiting condition. It allows you to only play with people of a conclave rank 2 or below (I think it was 2, if not 3)

[eviad]

I think you all get the problem backward. I rarely see anyone in conclave regular mission (capture, 1Vall, and teamVteam) asking for their challenge. Thats because many players are in these conclave mission for fun, and granting each other challenge is not fun, so they fight.

Meanwhile, Lunaro isnt fun for most people, even for conclave players, so the only people doing it are those who seek challenges completion.

My point is: if Lunaro was a better game mode, more people would play it fairly, and thus any challenge seeker would have to play along, because they would be a minority among players.

Edited July 21, 2017 by eviad

[Funki0]

2 minutes ago, eviad said:

I think you all get the problem backward. I rarely see anyone in conclave regular mission (capture, 1Vall, and teamVteam) asking for their challenge. Thats because many players are in these conclave mission for fun, and granting each other challenge is not fun, so they fight.

Meanwhile, Lunaro isnt fun for most people, even for conclave players, so the only people doing it are those who seek challenges completion.

My point is: if Lunaro was a better game mode, more people would play it fairly, and thus any challenge seeker would have to play along, because they would be a minority.

As you said, those are the other modes.
In Lunaro, a lot of people are there for "just the challenges", which is ok, as long as they try to earn it.
And to correct you, Lunaro doesn't have to be a better game mode. It just has to get brought to the playerbase in a better way. Make it more appealing or actually explain stuff more carefully.
And I personally think people should be forced to play the practice mode, going through everything at least once before they are allowed to actually play it.
Too many people don't even know the basic controls while calling the mode bad. It wouldn't look so bad if they would actually pay attention to how it works.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Funki0

[(PSN)DAVE-WF]

6 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

That is exactly the kind of comment I would have liked to avoid. Couldn't you word it differently? Lunaro is not bad. You just need to understand how it works first before you can say anything about it. THAT is a problem. Things like dribbling are not explain to the new player, which makes them think it's a bad mode or it's unfair, while they are just more experienced than the newer player.

Well english is not my native language, so im trying to keep things simple. That's true, that it's not good explained, but so isn't formaing weapons and warframe, neither is usage of potatoes and many more other stuff, which would be more essential. 

 

3 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

And I personally think people should be forced to play the practice mode, going through everything at least once before they are allowed to actually play it.
Too many people don't even know the basic controls while calling the mode bad. It wouldn't look so bad if they would actually pay attention to how it works.

I actually did go through practice mode for quite some time, after lunaro was introduced, so I know what to do and how to do it, yet practice is way different than actuall match even when you know the basics and controls, but I think you know that. You don't have to be a genius or spend 1000h in lunaro to figure it's not appealing when there arent even many players to begin with. 

[Funki0]

I have personally seen a surprising increase in the playerbase as of the last weeks. I don't really know why, but I appreciate it.
There are a lot more people than there were about 2 months back.

And I know that the actual game is different from the practice mode, but you should do it just to get the basic controls down and to get a feel for the ball and all that. The problem is not the difference, but people not even knowing the controls itself, which is pretty bad. They are in no position to judge the game mode at all and should get into it (at least a little bit) to say something about it.

[Hemmo67]

honestly i like the lunaro but as OP pointed out, it is often plagued with people who want to easy farm an not play a true game of moonball (lunaro ball is the lua moon) :P

hence why i haven't visited it in a while, oneday i hope these easy farmers would filterout trough something

[JoshuaAnders]

I think this only becomes an issue when people intentionally stop playing once they have their daily.

Even if people request a little help in achieving their daily, that's fine. As long as they play as normal afterwards.

So yeah, I have no issue with people playing solely for dailies, but only as long as that doesn't impact the overall match because people are selfishly not participating.

Edited July 21, 2017 by JoshuaAnders

[clemza]

43 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

Lunaro is not bad. You just need to understand how it works first before you can say anything about it. THAT is a problem. Things like dribbling are not explain to the new player, which makes them think it's a bad mode or it's unfair, while they are just more experienced than the newer player.

It is still bad, really bad. Its supposed to be a team base game and that is not. Good players will just play alone, never pass and keep scoring, which is frustrating for the other team as they loose and can't do anything and your own team which have nothing to do.

 

24 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

Challenges are called "challenges" for a reason. They are not called "gifts".

That is a really difficult challenge when you need "pass" and nobody does, because they just wants to score and "dribble" alone forever.

So of course at some point you will ask for it, which show how bad designed that game mode is, its not supposed to be a solo game mode.

And so same things happen for the other challenge.

 

I have played conclave for years and unlocked everything "proprely" without asking friends and random people, conclave and lunaro do need alot of training yeah, but once you play for a while you see that there are pretty big problems which makes them frustrating and not fun at all most of the time.

 

People asking for challenge to be done and "exploiting" with friends can be found in conclave everydays and its been like that since years now, you can't do much about it :/

 

I was expecting alot from lunaro, so i may be too much negative.

[Funki0]

1 minute ago, JoshuaAnders said:

I think this only becomes an issue when people intentionally stop playing once they have their daily.

Even if people request a little help in achieving their daily, that's fine. As long as they play as normal afterwards.

So yeah, I have no issue with people playing solely for dailies, but only as long as that doesn't impact the overall match because people are selfishly not participating.

I concur.
People shouldn't have an impact on the usual matches, even if they just want their challenges. They can get them, that's great, but they can just complete the match too with all they have to keep it going.
And yes, intentionally stopping doesn't help.

[JoshuaAnders]

4 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

I concur.
People shouldn't have an impact on the usual matches, even if they just want their challenges. They can get them, that's great, but they can just complete the match too with all they have to keep it going.
And yes, intentionally stopping doesn't help.

I find that typically speaking, people only really tend to stop playing if they're up against players who surpass them in skill so much so that they don't stand a chance (far too often I have come across two noob teams with one guy, usually someone I come across a lot in Lunaro, who obviously plays day-in-day-out, who has control of the ball 90% of the time and even refuses to pass to team-mates).

So I think this is a symptom of the root issue of no kind of proper matchmaking existing for Lunaro. I think if there was a system in place where people of similar skill levels would be matched together, then this issue would mostly disappear.

Edited July 21, 2017 by JoshuaAnders

[Funki0]

2 minutes ago, clemza said:

It is still bad, really bad. Its supposed to be a team base game and that is not. Good players will just play alone, never pass and keep scoring, which is frustrating for the other team as they loose and can't do anything and your own team which have nothing to do.

 

That is a really difficult challenge when you need "pass" and nobody does, because they just wants to score and "dribble" alone forever.

So of course at some point you will ask for it, which show how bad designed that game mode is, its not supposed to be a solo game mode.

And so same things happen for the other challenge.

That is a major thing I would like to go into.
People keep taking experienced players as a standart. That is plain wrong. You can't use players of a higher skillcap to demonstrate average gameplay.
Those players don't pass very often not because they want to dribble to score. They don't pass, because they got matches with people way worse than them. Of course it is less appealing for them to pass, because they know their teammate won't do anything with a pass.
There are also a lot of people I have seen which are experienced and still pass a good amount of times.
Then again, taking those people as an example is not right.

Asking for a challenge is not wrong, as long as you are not just sitting there, waiting on challenges and when your team just gifts you the reward of a completed challenge just sitting there, doing nothing.

[Funki0]

3 minutes ago, JoshuaAnders said:

I find that typically speaking, people only really tend to stop playing if they're up against players who surpass them in skill so much so that they don't stand a chance (far too often I have come across two noob teams with one guy, usually someone I come across a lot in Lunaro, who obviously plays day-in-day-out, who has control of the ball 90% of the time and even refuses to pass to team-mates).

So I think this is a symptom of the root issue of no kind of proper matchmaking existing for Lunaro. I think if there was a system in place where people of similar skill levels would be matched together, then this issue would mostly disappear.

Try to get a system that determines what level of skill you have first.
It would be pretty hard to put experienced people to others of the same level. I know there are the leaderboards with wins, points, passes and all that, but I have seen people being high on the leaderboards without advanced knowledge on Lunaro while others are lower than them, clearly surpassing their skill.
There should be a system, I agree, but that would be difficult.
There should probably be something like a choice of yours. You choose what match you want to go into. Maybe with it showing everyones Conclave rank or something. Just some things that lead you to a better experience.

And to go on my case. I have recently been put into matches where I don't belong for example. Why? Because either they are on a higher rank or because they have disabled their condition. I know about everything you can know in Lunaro while they couldn't even dribble or do anything.
Did I try to stomp them? No I did not. Most of that I did was just playing defensive while passing to them.

[JoshuaAnders]

6 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

Try to get a system that determines what level of skill you have first.
It would be pretty hard to put experienced people to others of the same level. I know there are the leaderboards with wins, points, passes and all that, but I have seen people being high on the leaderboards without advanced knowledge on Lunaro while others are lower than them, clearly surpassing their skill.
There should be a system, I agree, but that would be difficult.
There should probably be something like a choice of yours. You choose what match you want to go into. Maybe with it showing everyones Conclave rank or something. Just some things that lead you to a better experience.

And to go on my case. I have recently been put into matches where I don't belong for example. Why? Because either they are on a higher rank or because they have disabled their condition. I know about everything you can know in Lunaro while they couldn't even dribble or do anything.
Did I try to stomp them? No I did not. Most of that I did was just playing defensive while passing to them.

A simple solution, even if it's just a stand-in until something better is developed, is to implement something that collates data on your goals, passes, saves, and steals, and matches you with players with similar numbers, as you kind of mentioned. The higher the number, the better you're likely to be, and the more you're likely to have played. So even if it's not perfect, it'll do for a while and will still be better than what we currently have.

 

[Funki0]

That is one option if it's possible.
There could also be the change to clarity. People need to see what you can do and what you should be able to do more clearly.

I have created lessons on Lunaro for that reason. It is to explain to people what can be done AND how to do it too.
I have also tried to let as many people know of its existance as possible. It just doesn't seem to be enough.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Funki0

[JoshuaAnders]

3 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

That is one option if it's possible.
There could also be the change to clarity. People need to see what you can do and what you should be able to do more clearly.

That doesn't really help when you're up against players who play day-in-day-out for months on end though. Like some players do.

[Witchydragon]

It's obvious why everyone does this.

Conclave is trash.

Trash, just like every other mode in the game. You never see people trying to enjoy their time in Exterminate or Rescue, they always just bum rush to the exit with no added fun. You ever see anyone say 'yeah let's just sit in this defense mission for fun lol', do you? When you ask someone how long they plan to stay in a survival mission, the answer is either '20', or 'until I get [X]'. Why? Because people treat the game modes like trash, and call the rewards trash because the gamemodes are trash, and the only thing that isn't trash are the cosmetics. But if you burn trash, it goes up into the sky and turns into stars, or at least I don't know enough about stars to disprove it.

In the end, 'earning' isn't really a concept that applies to 'trash'.

-

It sucks when something you love is treated like trash by others, but there's nothing you can really do about it than vent online, and keep loving it. 

[Funki0]

Just now, JoshuaAnders said:

That doesn't really help when you're up against players who play day-in-day-out for months on end though. Like some players do.

It helps against people thinking wrong things about Lunaro while encouraging them to try it or even learn it.
There are too many people that have no idea what that mode is even about.

All they know is "Get ball, walk, check, throw ball". That is just the surface. And when they see some people going beyond that, they either call them cheating or say it is unfair ot they just get discouraged. There aren't a lot of people that would like to learn the same.

[Funki0]

1 minute ago, Witchydragon said:

It's obvious why everyone does this.

Conclave is trash.

Trash, just like every other mode in the game. You never see people trying to enjoy their time in Exterminate or Rescue, they always just bum rush to the exit with no added fun. You ever see anyone say 'yeah let's just sit in this defense mission for fun lol', do you? When you ask someone how long they plan to stay in a survival mission, the answer is either '20', or 'until I get [X]'. Why? Because people treat the game modes like trash, and call the rewards trash because the gamemodes are trash, and the only thing that isn't trash are the cosmetics. But if you burn trash, it goes up into the sky and turns into stars, or at least I don't know enough about stars to disprove it.

In the end, 'earning' isn't really a concept that applies to 'trash'.

-

It sucks when something you love is treated like trash by others, but there's nothing you can really do about it than vent online, and keep loving it. 

I guess that is another one of the comments without a lot of substance.
Looking at Lunaro from an objective point of view, it is a good game mode which is fun.
It is no trash at all. People just have misconceptions and don't even know what Lunaro is while a lot of them hear "PvP" and immediately think of annihilation. They hear "PvP" and call it trash or something similar.
You or anyone really should open your eyes and treat something like this with the respect it deserves.
And if you don't like Lunaro, that is your own personal opinion. Your opinion is your opinion and doesn't change the state of the mode. You either like it and keep playing it or you don't and stop playing it, but don't just say the mode is bad just because it is not your type of game.

And you can't compare survival or defense with Lunaro. Even if I have seen quite a few people actually saying it is fun, because they have an objective and like doing that specific thing. It is the same with me and spy missions. I like running spy missions. Is that any of your concern? Not at all. I also dislike extermination missions, but I wouldn't call it a bad mission type.

[.Zel]

Cognitive Dissonance, people get stuff with little to no effort in PvE and so they expect the same from PvP. Afk Lunaro and Afk Akkad is basically the same thing for them, it's all just a grind.

They play a Co-op game and most get it because the game is advertised as such, So i wouldn't be surprised if some of them never played any PvP game before and aren't aware of such things as stat-padding.

Lunaro/Conclave, 2 Very interesting and fun game modes available to a crowd with a majority that has no appreciation for competitive play, they don't play the game themselves and they even manage to flawlessly ruin games for those who actually play, 10/10. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by .Zel