Tenno Must Act Now to Prevent Double-Nerf of Melee Weapon

[ssh83]

Melee damage became God-Tier across the board (instead of a few clever combo) when Slide-Attack crit bonus started getting multiplied by Blood Rush instead of additive adding after the combo-multiplier.  It is intensified to the extreme by Melee Riven mod that add EVEN MORE base slide-attack critical chance and +damage to be multiplied.

Well, DE has not change Slide-Crit back to additive with Blood Rush or nerf Riven, but (intentionally or otherwise) melee weapon as a whole was nerfed with stealth-melee multiplier change (source).  Slide-Attack Riven is still god-tier.  With so much multiplied slide crit, the first hit is all they need anyways, but many other melee playstyles took a very significant hit.  Many alternative playstyles that aren't OP got seriously nerfed.

I think it's important that Tenno plead with DE to address the root issue of slide-crit calculation while the stealth-damage change is still on the table.  The worst case scenario is that DE nerfs slide-crit formula weeks or months down the line, and forget to bring back original stealth multiplier: a compounding double nerf that can push melee weapon into the abyss.

 

[kaliazane]

About time for a nerf.

[(PSN)theelix]

So? 

Weren't people asking for a nerf? Don't people hate Exalted Blade spamming Excalibur? Isn't Naramon Shadow Step such a problem? 

Sounds like DE only did what people asked. 

 

To be honest, posts like this make me think Melee 2.0 wasn't good enough. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by (PS4)theelix

[Koldraxon-732]

If topic is a nerf, which DE has not mentioned in patch notes, which means it's (skip the spoiler to read the rest):

Spoiler

 

If DE is to nerf melees, they should consider the fact that there are enemies (Scorchers, Nullifiers, Comba/Scrambus, Bursas, Hyekka Masters, Nox, Sentient Fighters in most cases, Napalms, and in some cases, Bombards) that are either meatwalls or not-meatwalls that can, in uncommon or rare cases, instantly kill you even at pre-Sortie levels.

Otherwise, expect a complete flip and nerf on Melee Rivens and their Dispositions - since these are the main cause of Melee weapons becoming the deadliest thing beyond a properly Riven'd Tigris Prime. One way DE may nerf Melee Rivens is by removing the Riven's ability to input some stats like positive slide attack speeds, melee swing speeds, for instance.

Besides, it's not all about that stealth crit or 'Coptering 2.0'.

 

A bug.

Stomp it out.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Koldraxon-732
It's a bug.

[Sajochi]

What you are referring to, OP, is a bug. When something doesn't work after a patch drops, and there is no mention of it anywhere in the patch notes, it means a bug. There is a thread in the bugs section of the forum that is getting no attention, but these "Stealth nerf" threads are, which is really irritating. 

Stealth nerf threads do not help things. They only serve to spread misinformation, encourage dev bashing, and start flame wars.

[Husla]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

So? 

Weren't people asking for a nerf? Don't people hate Exalted Blade spamming Excalibur? Isn't Naramon Shadow Step such a problem? 

Sounds like DE only did what people asked. 

 

To be honest, posts like this make me think Melee 2.0 wasn't good enough. 

So they're catering to one side. If I like stealth melee but someone else doesn't. Why does that mean I have to change, why can't they change to not using stealth themselves?

[Marine027]

1 hour ago, Sajochi said:

What you are referring to, OP, is a bug. When something doesn't work after a patch drops, and there is no mention of it anywhere in the patch notes, it means a bug. There is a thread in the bugs section of the forum that is getting no attention, but these "Stealth nerf" threads are, which is really irritating. 

Stealth nerf threads do not help things. They only serve to spread misinformation, encourage dev bashing, and start flame wars.

^This.

Same way people call it stealth nerf while them forgetting to unequip a dragon key.

This has to stop and in my eyes should be drastic by banning them or giving them a time out for spreading such missinformations, while in reality even the Dev's are just humans making mistakes like everyone else does and are not lieing bastards as some try to pretend or make them look like it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Marine027

[SilvaDreams]

Warning! Warning!

Tinfoil hat zone!

Edited July 22, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[(PSN)theelix]

6 minutes ago, Husla said:

So they're catering to one side. If I like stealth melee but someone else doesn't. Why does that mean I have to change, why can't they change to not using stealth themselves?

If it's so overwhelmingly good that it makes 75% of the other options in the game look worthless, to the point where new players come into their public games with a Shadow Step Exalted Blade spam build, then of course they'd see it as a problem. 

This is a way of fixing that problem. 

[Wiergate]

43 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

Slide-Attack Riven is still god-tier.  With so much multiplied slide crit, the first hit is all they need anyways, but many other melee playstyles took a very significant hit.  Many alternative playstyles that aren't OP got seriously nerfed.

Well. One of the few things I had left to do in this game was to bite the bullet and become proficient with the various stances in spite of how exceedingly clunky they are to execute. 

Never mind then. 

[kyori]

*that image... no one notice that?... ain't the 3.9 timer from the 2nd power of warframe? Those are warframe power icons... and the chinese word kind of read prisma grakata. Seriously... what's the smoking is with the one posting that image?

So it is said that DE created all those things themselves... and then nerf them? Then why create in the first place? lol

Nerf only comes when players cry foul  that cannot get the top kills in a mission. That's a fact.

Hell, there are people openly said to the world that they are not happy that trinity can save other tenno and give them energy. What is wrong with people nowadays? lol

Edited July 22, 2017 by kyori

[aligatorno]

I did a bit of testing. It seems that the damage drops signigicantly after the first stealth hit, but it doesn't seem to drop with a consistent value. Sometimes it drops by 1/3, sometimes by half, sometimes by 10x [went from 146 on the first hit to 14 in the next few hits]. 

It looks more to me like it is a bug rather than an intentional nerf. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by aligatorno

[BornWithTeeth]

16 minutes ago, Wiergate said:

Well. One of the few things I had left to do in this game was to bite the bullet and become proficient with the various stances in spite of how exceedingly clunky they are to execute. 

Never mind then. 

Acquire Final Harbinger. Put four Forma on Ack and Brunt. Acquire Ack and Brunt Day of the Dead skin.

 

DISCO DEATHBLENDER

[Sajochi]

Just now, aligatorno said:

I did a bit of testing. It seems that the damage drops signigicantly after the first stealth hit, but it doesn't seem to drop with a consistent value. Sometimes it drops by 1/3, sometimes by half, sometimes by 10x [went from 146 on the first hit to 14 in the next few hits]. 

It looks more to me like it is a bug rather than an intentinoal nerf. 

 Thank you! Someone who did testing and seen that it's not consistent. You, tenno, are one in a million. 

 

Now, with that settled, can we finally call a bug, a bug and be done with this stealth nerf bs?

[(PSN)fullblast35]

if you notice anything deserving to be nerfed its probably because someone is abusing it or it's buggy, nothing else.  if players don't stop spamming and be less selfish or self centered in squads DE will just remove stealth multiplier one day.  Too much misleading threads  making them change things they don't need to (sometimes).  Keep in mind that being a dev doesn't mean they do 7 hour endurance runs, most of the time they are working in the core of things and do basic testings.  Now with great power comes great responsibilities and for the game's case, if you're OP at least be conscious enough to create a fun environment for others and not just you.  Overtime something gets nerfed/fixed something else comes up and sometimes for the same thing they already reviewed.  when you play this game enough you WILL eventually have OP builds and being the most OP'd player in a squad doesn't make it necessarily fun for others who are not if you're all over the place..  They won't play solo because of the spawning rate and get bored of killing everything without anybody present to see their "achievements"  but will go public and ruin our experience.  Besides the bugs they might have to fix, the rest is self consciousness at this point.

[OvisCaedo]

Sometimes something being absent from patch notes means it's a bug. Sometimes it means they forgot to put something on patch notes. With how silly stealth melee is, especially with Naramon, I really wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to have been something deliberate.

though either way, I doubt there was any INTENTIONAL "stealth nerf"

Edited July 22, 2017 by OvisCaedo

[Wiergate]

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DISCO DEATHBLENDER

xD I know, but there's a whole world of beautifully animated stances out there, and 99% of players don't use them properly on account of the design for their execution making the 1980's NES look like cutting-edge tech. 

8 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Now, with that settled, can we finally call a bug, a bug and be done with this stealth nerf bs?

Have you noticed anything unusual about Quick Thinking since the latest update? Sometimes DE are quite good about transparency, sometimes they take care not to be. Both the melee crit cooldown and QT's sudden change for the worse/disastrous could be bugs, but there's such a thing as healthy paranoia.  

[Epsik-kun]

1 hour ago, ssh83 said:

when Slide-Attack crit bonus started getting multiplied by Blood Rush

So, when Maiming and Blood Rush were introduced all the way back then in Shadow Debt?

[Tizodd]

1 hour ago, ViS4GE said:

About time for a nerf.

I totally agree.  The fact that the OP refers to melee damage as "God tier" is very telling in itself.  "God tier" anything should not exist in a multiplayer game that strives for balance.

Is it effective?  Sure.  But the fact that I can equip an Atterax and Naramon and easily clear anything except airborne bosses, means something needs to be changed.

[Sajochi]

26 minutes ago, Wiergate said:

 

Have you noticed anything unusual about Quick Thinking since the latest update? Sometimes DE are quite good about transparency, sometimes they take care not to be. Both the melee crit cooldown and QT's sudden change for the worse/disastrous could be bugs, but there's such a thing as healthy paranoia.  

They document every change because they constantly get called out for shenanigans. They even document changes that are so insignificant, 99% of players wouldn't even notice it if they didn't read the patch notes. So, if it's not documented, it's a bug. Period. Let's not start this "DE is dishonest sometimes " train when they've been more than fair with the players.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Sajochi

[Fallen_Echo]

8 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

They document every change because they constantly get called out for shenanigans. They even document changes that are so insignificant, 99% of players wouldn't even notice it if they didn't read the patch notes. So, if it's not documented, it's a bug. Period. Let's not start this "DE is dishonest sometimes " train when they've been more than fair with the players. 

And there is no such thing as healthy paranoia.

par·a·noi·a

ˌperəˈnoiə/

noun

1. a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.

   synonyms:

   persecution complex, delusions, obsession, psychosis "her husband had concocted a cruel scheme to inflict her with paranoia"

   • suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.

     "the global paranoia about hackers and viruses"

      

Expect when the documented changes dont get into game or are missing, for example we still did not get the glaxion increased ammo economy promised in the weapon balance pass.

Its either a bug or a stealth nerf. This wont change till DE officially acknowledges it and even then they can just label it as a "fix" missing from the patchnotes.

Just look at the quickthinking stagger issue, no one from the staff talks about it, no one even said they are working on fixing it.

When a bug like this comes along the minimum i expect from DE is to react to these claims and not let paranoia wreak havoc.

[SilvaDreams]

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Expect when the documented changes dont get into game or are missing, for example we still did not get the glaxion increased ammo economy promised in the weapon balance pass.

Its either a bug or a stealth nerf. This wont change till DE officially acknowledges it and even then they can just label it as a "fix" missing from the patchnotes.

Just look at the quickthinking stagger issue, no one from the staff talks about it, no one even said they are working on fixing it.

When a bug like this comes along the minimum i expect from DE is to react to these claims and not let paranoia wreak havoc.

Megan is off on business thus why no Dev stream yesterday.

And most likely they are busy... And it is the weekend so no one is in the office.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I seem to have landed in the wrong thread. Where do I have to go if I want to support the nerfing?

Joke aside, this just makes sense and takes away a good chunk of power from being invisible. Yeah, I'd like DE to have taken invisibility itself down a notch or two, but this change seems like it's going into a very similar direction, so I'm fine with it.

[JoshuaAnders]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just wait until damage 3.0 / new enemy scaling system are released rather than ask for more nerfs?

Patience is a virtue.

Edited July 22, 2017 by JoshuaAnders

[Voltage]

Why do we need nerfs? Last time I checked overpowering enemies is the name of the game. If the mission gets completed, who cares? The stealth thing needs to be fixed, but nerfing criticals and rivens just isn't how it should work...