Mesa build

[TsukiS98]

Hi , so im trying out this build atm , mainly i went for a mix of all and ignored range as much as i could on her since i never felt the need for it in my current level of play .

Most of the time im sliding/jumping/whatever doing stuff around and her second ability just gets things stunned anyway so range in that case was never a thing i needed to be worried about (mostly just doing fun rounds on void Ani for some hours 2-1 with friends) and when i went on to peacemaker things got killed pretty fast that i really didnt feel the need in range as no one got close . 

so do you guys think in higher levels i will actually need that range ? or is this build enough ? 

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by TsukiS98
forgot tag

[redeyedtreefrog]

Well, just as an idle observation, mesa's second can prevent things from shooting and keep them still for a moment while they try knocking jammed bullets out of their guns... and while they're doing that, they can't shoot you. Considering bullets (and other gun-based bad stuff) are the #1 reason for taking damage aside from melee, which mesa strangely enough also stops with her second... A build that doesn't tank range is at least worth trying out. 

Depending on your squad though, you don't necessarily need that range. I heard that range affects peacemaker's min and max aimbot FoV, but if you've played mesa a lot on this build, I assume you've either gotten used to that or just didn't care about it to start with.

My personal build just maxes out efficiency, with as much duration as I could get back with primed continuity, so that entering and exiting peacemaker repeatedly during mobile missions doesn't tank my energy. From there, I have I think 45% extra strength and maybe? stretch, idk.

But again, if you find a build effective, there's no reason not to use it, and aside from maybe requiring you to actually aim during peacemaker(still don't know how much that range would affect FoV), the only ability that uses range is shooting gallery, which should still give you increased damage so the ability won't be entirely tanked.

[Arcainyx]

WF Wiki for Mesa

The range of effect for the lasso on Shooting Gallery, the range of effect for Shatter Shield and the minimum field of view for Peacemaker are all increased if you increase Range through mods.  Several sources of damage for Mesa's skills are reduced if you increase range.  Because most people want their damage to be as high as possible for frames/builds of that type and because minimum field of view being lower doesn't cripple Peacemaker usage, Range is often a dump stat for Peacemaker builds.  I've seen builds that rely less on using Peacemaker and more on Mesa's other skills for a more mobile playstyle and increased buffing for squadmates.  Those builds emphasize range more then Peacemaker builds do.

OP, your build is more or less what you should be doing for a Peacemaker build.  I've seen some differences in builds depending on gear, arcanes, mod availability, etc.  The goals are at least enough Strength for max damage reduction from Shatter Shield/hopefully enough Strength to handle the content you fight the most, a good enough mix of Duration/Efficiency to stay in Peacemaker as much as possible and survivability enough to not be downed most of your playing time (again content dependent).  It looks and sounds like you've got those things covered.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Your build is fine, but if you want to tweak it I'd suggest Primed Flow.  Mesa benefits more from Primed Flow than just about any other warframe because it lets her stay in peacemaker longer.  If you use Primed Flow, might as well use Quick Thinking as your survival mod instead of Vitality.

If you want to change your build even more, go with just 130 Strength from Intensify.  That's enough to get you the maximum damage reduction from Shatter Shield.  Most of Peacemaker's damage comes from your pistol mods, so if you have a good crit pistol build with the primed mods, you don't need more strength.  I can take down a Sortie 3 physical or elemental enhanced Eximus in less than two seconds with 130 strength.  Any more is overkill.  Intead, you can get more Duration and buy back some range.

[Arcainyx]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

-snip-

These are good points.  One of the posts I was reading not long ago suggested Rapid Resilience as a survival mod.  If you find yourself doing endless endurance runs or something higher than sortie 3 level you might consider modding for Strength higher than 130.  One of the reasons why I've seen some difference in the specific mods people pick is because they base their builds differently depending on the content they run the most.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

50 minutes ago, Arcainyx said:

These are good points.  One of the posts I was reading not long ago suggested Rapid Resilience as a survival mod.  If you find yourself doing endless endurance runs or something higher than sortie 3 level you might consider modding for Strength higher than 130.  One of the reasons why I've seen some difference in the specific mods people pick is because they base their builds differently depending on the content they run the most.

I have an alternate build with max strength that works well outside of being a huge energy hog, but I almost never use it.  There really isn't a reason to play content harder than sortie 3 these days.  On the rare occasion that a really hard event comes up, non lethal crowd control like Nyx or Vauban is almost always better.  

[(PSN)horridhal]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

Your build is fine, but if you want to tweak it I'd suggest Primed Flow

I would do this.  Drop Constitution and run Primed Flow in its place.  It gives you a much larger energy pool to stay in Peacemaker longer or to cast your other abilities more often.  I generally run Primed Flow on all my Frames with channeled abilities specifically for those two reasons.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

 If you use Primed Flow, might as well use Quick Thinking as your survival mod instead of Vitality.

I don't think this is a good idea given how Quick Thinking works with the stagger.  If you have a good amount of Health pads (which realistically everyone should have a month or two after playing) Vitality is a better survivability mod in my opinion.  Her DR on shots is massive and the only times I find I go down is to either Toxin or Slash procs when I'm not paying attention; direct bullet damage, though, rarely kills anyone running Mesa.

I would also recommend you Forma her with another V polarity for your Continuity so you can max out the Vitality in your build.  The rest of it looks good.  Also, remember, that if you do run the Primed Flow you could run a maxed Blind Rage in place of the Transient or Intensify along with a maxed Fleeting and sacrifice a little more power drain in Peacemaker (with the Primed Flow it won't be as large a drain since you'll have the larger energy pool) and a little duration to get a larger power boost to your Peacemaker.  This would only be necessary if you run extremely high level content, though.  Also, you might post a build of the pistol you use when you run Mesa because, as others have stated, the pistol build is more important to Peacemaker than the Frame build.

[KondziQ]

This is my Mesa build.

 

In this build i use max arcane grace and barrier, which synergise very well with Shatter Shield. Since your secondary weapon mods are the main source of ult dmg i don't use much power strenght mods, just enough to get 95% dmg reduction. I use Zenurik so energy is not a problem, and in critical situations (or before i can use focus) i have rage.

My playstyle is: casting Shatter Shield, Shooting Gallery then just runing and gunning with my aklexes or lanka, and when there is to much enemies jumping in Peacemaker clearing the room and jumping out.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by KondziQ

[Xzorn]

Range for Mesa is mostly useful for Grineer since Napalm, Hyeka Masters and other AoE effects are in abundance and they will easily one-shot her later in levels by ignoring her Shatter Shield. It's still not entirely reliable though so I would just consider Grineer her weakest pair up. A stretch mod can be useful against Infested though not really necessary.

Primed Flow is a must if you intend to use Peace Maker but I would not recommend Quick Thinking. For the very same reason her Energy is important enough to invest Primed Flow is the same reason you don't want to jeopardize that energy with QT. In the end a Mesa without energy is a dead Mesa and you can very easily counter with better recovery via Arcane Grace / Medi-Ray / Pads.

How much Power Strength you use entirely depends on the level range. The base 130% will work fine for Sorties but you will need more if you intend to push further in levels. A 200% Power Peacermaker will do about 55% more total damage than a 130% Power one.

I use less Duration in my builds but keep Efficiency with the same Power Strength, It frees up a mod slot and allows me to slot a faction based mod. Rapid Resilience for Grineer to counter Bleeds, Stretch For Infested to help against one creeping up behind me and Primed Vigor for Corpus / Void to help counter Nullifiers which render her Laso useless. Primed Vigor / Redirection can be a good choice in general since the more dangerous enemies use Puncture weapons which have negative modifiers against Shields but of course this is for higher levels where Mesa can still deal damage but struggles to stay alive, even through her 95% damage reduction.

Spoiler

 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

For the very same reason her Energy is important enough to invest Primed Flow is the same reason you don't want to jeopardize that energy with QT. 

You know, that has been the same logic I have for not using QT on the frames I prefer.  :D

[Xzorn]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You know, that has been the same logic I have for not using QT on the frames I prefer.  :D

 

Yea, I avoid from using QT on any frame with a channel ability they rely on.

It can cause your death just as much as preventing it. That's not even considering the stagger effect which recently got a lot more sever for no reason.

I really only use it on 3 frames and that might even change depending on the stagger performance.

[TsukiS98]

On 22.7.2017 at 9:33 PM, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

Your build is fine, but if you want to tweak it I'd suggest Primed Flow.  Mesa benefits more from Primed Flow than just about any other warframe because it lets her stay in peacemaker longer.  If you use Primed Flow, might as well use Quick Thinking as your survival mod instead of Vitality.

If you want to change your build even more, go with just 130 Strength from Intensify.  That's enough to get you the maximum damage reduction from Shatter Shield.  Most of Peacemaker's damage comes from your pistol mods, so if you have a good crit pistol build with the primed mods, you don't need more strength.  I can take down a Sortie 3 physical or elemental enhanced Eximus in less than two seconds with 130 strength.  Any more is overkill.  Intead, you can get more Duration and buy back some range.

here i was looking on the notification bell and see nothin wth 0-0  

id like to thank you all first red all of it and i guess ill change some stuff over .

do you think its worth removing transient fortitude and power drift ? atm im getting with them some good multipliers altho idk if they affect my weapons as much .

i get a 50% dmg buff from her 2 and a 3multi for PM , as for her 2 it does great without range but ive never been to sorties and stuff like that so idk really how needed it is compared to the benifits of dmg% 

Also im constantly finding myself without energy to use (i still havent done the second dream for zenurik) so flow seemed like a waste for me maybe that will change .

so basically strenght multipliers or more duration(transient) , and more range 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

2 hours ago, TsukiS98 said:

here i was looking on the notification bell and see nothin wth 0-0  

id like to thank you all first red all of it and i guess ill change some stuff over .

do you think its worth removing transient fortitude and power drift ? atm im getting with them some good multipliers altho idk if they affect my weapons as much .

i get a 50% dmg buff from her 2 and a 3multi for PM , as for her 2 it does great without range but ive never been to sorties and stuff like that so idk really how needed it is compared to the benifits of dmg% 

Also im constantly finding myself without energy to use (i still havent done the second dream for zenurik) so flow seemed like a waste for me maybe that will change .

so basically strenght multipliers or more duration(transient) , and more range 

I wouldn't use Transient Fortitude.  The only time I ever go down with Mesa is when Shatter Shield is out.  More Duration means those moments are farther apart and happen less often.  Duration along with efficiency also helps your energy per second cost with Peacemaker.  

Mesa will always have energy problems, especially on static missions where you are staying in one area with Peacemaker active most of the time.  Giving Mesa efficiency and duration helps.  I also use Zenurik as my school for the energy restore.  Finally I carry a bunch of energy restores.  If I know I have to start Peacemakering right away I fill up on energy at the start of the mission.  That's what Primed Flow is for: so I can carry more energy around with me when I'm full up.  Another option is Arcane Energize but a full set costs around 4000p and I have gotten tired of grinding plat lately now that I own nearly everything.

Range is for convenience: it makes the aiming circle shrink less with each shot so I have to recast Peacemaker less often.   I use a couple mod slots to buy back range to 94 percent.  You can experiment with Cunning Drift in place of Power Drift or using Stretch or both and see if you notice a difference.

Here's my build: 3 forma plus an extra forma to create extra cap space so I have enough energy to immediately cast Shatter Shield.

Pistol Amp (some players change this polarity to match Corrosive Projection, I haven't found it necessary.)

Cunning Drift, Primed Flow, Narrow Minded, Primed Continuity, Quick Thinking, Constitution, Intensify, Streamline, Stretch

My pistol mods (note that Rivens are weapon specific and do not affect Peacemaker):

Hornet Strike, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Pistol Gambit, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, Primed Heated Charge,  2x 90% elements. One of these days I might play around with adding a second fire rate mod.

I should also add that I use Arcane Avenger for the crit boost and Arcane Aegis for my shields.  Both of these activate on taking a hit and Mesa with Peacemaker and Shatter Shield is constantly taking tiny amounts of damage.

Edited July 24, 2017 by (XB1)ThermalStone

[TsukiS98]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

I wouldn't use Transient Fortitude.  The only time I ever go down with Mesa is when Shatter Shield is out.  More Duration means those moments are farther apart and happen less often.  Duration along with efficiency also helps your energy per second cost with Peacemaker.  

Mesa will always have energy problems, especially on static missions where you are staying in one area with Peacemaker active most of the time.  Giving Mesa efficiency and duration helps.  I also use Zenurik as my school for the energy restore.  Finally I carry a bunch of energy restores.  If I know I have to start Peacemakering right away I fill up on energy at the start of the mission.  That's what Primed Flow is for: so I can carry more energy around with me when I'm full up.  Another option is Arcane Energize but a full set costs around 4000p and I have gotten tired of grinding plat lately now that I own nearly everything.

Range is for convenience: it makes the aiming circle shrink less with each shot so I have to recast Peacemaker less often.   I use a couple mod slots to buy back range to 94 percent.  You can experiment with Cunning Drift in place of Power Drift or using Stretch or both and see if you notice a difference.

Here's my build: 3 forma plus an extra forma to create extra cap space so I have enough energy to immediately cast Shatter Shield.

Pistol Amp (some players change this polarity to match Corrosive Projection, I haven't found it necessary.)

Cunning Drift, Primed Flow, Narrow Minded, Primed Continuity, Quick Thinking, Constitution, Intensify, Streamline, Stretch

My pistol mods (note that Rivens are weapon specific and do not affect Peacemaker):

Hornet Strike, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Pistol Gambit, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, Primed Heated Charge,  2x 90% elements. One of these days I might play around with adding a second fire rate mod.

I should also add that I use Arcane Avenger for the crit boost and Arcane Aegis for my shields.  Both of these activate on taking a hit and Mesa with Peacemaker and Shatter Shield is constantly taking tiny amounts of damage.

i see , ill test out no transient for a flow or primed one whenever i can get it (still need like 1.5mil credit to buy both primed target cracker and primed gambit , got the rest of the mods for my Aksti prime) 

also i changed for corrosive mostly because i saw little to no change with pistol amp 

tbf im quiet ok with PM ring , it shrinks quickly but still its enough atleast for me :p 

altho its nice having SG with 70sec and SS with 60sec duration , will the lose of strenght effect the dmg mesa gets from SG and PM alot ?

[Xzorn]

Transient Fortitude will increase the occurrence of your window of vulnerability but it doesn't make much if any difference long as you're paying attention. As long as your Peace Maker is at or near efficiency cap the amount of Duration you have is completely up to you. I use Transient with 167% Duration and I've taken the build to lvl 400 Corpus Solo, having not died once as a result of having to re-casting her buffs. It mostly comes down to you as the player.

Zenurik + Flow will alleviate energy problems but you can remove energy problems entirely once you're well geared with an Energize set.

Range only has a large effect on her CC. Peace Maker Reticle shrinking is not always a bad thing and in fact is preferred past Sorties since it will allow you to focus key targets like Ancient Healer instead of spreading damage among targets which is being reduced by said Healer. Re-casting Peacemaker at Sorties or lower levels is mostly irrelevant since she doesn't need the damage ramp to kill things in the first place.

I would not recommend using any Aura outside Corrosive Projection. Pistol Amp is a newbie mistake on Mesa. @200% Power Pistol Amp will give Mesa (2.2 + 7.5 + 0.46) = 10.16 then Pistol Amp 10.16 + 0.27 = 10.43 for a difference of  (10.43 - 10.16) / 10.16 = 0.0266 or +2.7% increase in DPS. Corrosive Projection will give you a +42.68% increase in DPS against all armored enemies and armor tends to be what Mesa struggles with later in levels because of Peacemaker's 10% base status chance. Pistol Amp is stacked additive with Hornet Strike, Peacemaker Bonus Damage and her Shooting Gallery buff, making up a very small portion of her damage.

Because of this additive interaction Mesa's Shooting Gallery also does not add much as you'd think / want. About a 5% increase in DPS at 200% Power and Anemic Agility is a completely viable pick over Hornet Strike when dealing with armored enemies past Sorties since it will give you faster Corrosive procs and no change in DPS.

[uAir]

2's weapon jamming affects so few enemies and so randomly that it is inconsequential to gameplay. Building range for this makes no sense.

Quick Thinking + Rage is still the best survivability build I've found for Mesa running against higher level enemies. I don't care if you're on the move most of the time. The fact is that you have to stand still for PM and you will get hit. QT+Rage is the best I've found for soloing with Mesa in endurance runs. There are a few other things you can try for playstyle specific differences but this is the easiest route to take. There may be some better configurations but whenever I've tried I just can't find one that works as simply and thus, not better, than QT+Rage on Mesa. Being mindful of your HP and energy while maintaining Shatter Shield is also very important. To that end, you can also do very well with a single Vitality mod.

The strength gained from Transient Fortitude is well worth the loss of duration. You can easily spec for 40+ seconds of Shatter Shield with max efficiency still.
The 55% strength gain is simply too nice to have. While even 100% power strength is sufficient against the entire star map you will notice the difference against sorties and in endurance runs. You will also notice the difference a little bit against some of the beefier targets that might spawn with more HP. If you really just cannot stand the duration loss for some reason then use Energy Conversion. But the "always present" aspect of Transient Fortitude wins out against the duration loss and the energy orb requirement for Energy Conversion.

If your whole intention is to just do the map I highly suggest running Overextended and Stretch with max efficiency, as high duration and range as you can. If you really feel you need it you can throw in an Intensify or something to get 95% damage reduction off of her 3.
If you want to be open for more difficult things then swap range mods for power strength mods while maintaining max efficiency and as high a duration as you can get.

That's all there is to modding the frame, really.

I would never recommend Blind Rage unless you have some way to replenish energy easily like a coordinated or devoted EV Trinity.
And while many of you may feel 160% or 170% efficiency is good enough, know that in a general map run and even in endurance plays, mobility is key to survival. The best way I've found to survive as Mesa is to literally play almost the same way I play other frames and that's by moving around a lot. On the map you literally run and bullet jump and roll into rooms to activate 4. Kill everything, then you deactivate it and move to another spot and activate it again. Efficiency is worth getting to max to lower the activation cost of her 4. So 170% vs 175%. It may not matter on her 4 so much, that's just 1 energy each activation. But consider also that you will have her 3 active. That's about 4 energy gone there. So that's already over one second of 4 gone because you didn't get 175% efficiency. Every time you activate either you drop a second in PM time. The issue becomes worse the less efficiency you have.

There is some interplay between Fleeting Expertise and duration with regards to efficiency but I don't think 170% or worse, 160% is the way to go when playing Mesa.
I mean, it's one thing if you have a good team and an EV Trinity to keep giving you energy. But it's another thing if you're playing solo or with randoms. Energy restores are by no means cheap. I have over 250 large energy restores and about 48k polymer bundles. That is still not a comfortable buffer for me to be using them whenever I want. It has to be mission critical for me to activate it. Polymer Bundle farming is easy but also 40 minutes farming that is not as lucrative as farming for relics or getting Prime drops.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

All Mesa's abilities Profit from Strength, so I'll be little more careful about it. Peacemaker's algorithm is clear: More Strength = faster killing = less in Peacemaker,  but this depends on u, how u are able manage the Energy drain. No to Transient fortitude and Narrow Minded for overall Mesa build.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

My main point was that 130 strength and Pistol Amp is plenty for content up to level 150 or sortie 3 with a toughness modifier.  If you have a good crit pistol build you don't need more strength and can focus on quality of life stats for Mesa like duration and range.  I have an alternate build with strength over 250 but I never use it because currently there is no reason to play content difficult enough to require that much power strength.

[DatDarkOne]

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

My main point was that 130 strength and Pistol Amp is plenty for content up to level 150 or sortie 3 with a toughness modifier.  If you have a good crit pistol build you don't need more strength and can focus on quality of life stats for Mesa like duration and range.  I have an alternate build with strength over 250 but I never use it because currently there is no reason to play content difficult enough to require that much power strength.

Thank you.  I was wondering about power strength in regards to Mesa myself.  Good to know that as long as I don't gimp it I'll be fine.