Login Rewards kind of unattainable for new players

[PakkiTheDog]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Here is the major problem I have with your argument.  If I have waited 200 days, and you have 200 days to wait: how is 200 days not equal to 200 days? They both just have different starting points in time.  Let's say we both are in a 10 mile race.  I started 30 minutes before you did.  Would it be fair for you to began your part where I am instead of at the starting point. We would both get the exact same prize, but one of would have expended more effort/time than the other.  Where is the reward for effort/time value if you get the same reward and only did half the effort/time as the another.  It is a "reward" that topic is about.     

Read theelixs explanation again, i grow tired of explaining the same thing over and over again:

31 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

 

You arrive late to a party for your new friend; you weren't told until he text you late into the party after realizing he never actually sent your invitation. The party started four hours ago, but they just gave out the cupcakes. Everyone's enjoying those cupcakes, a few of them just got theirs and are telling you about how good it is. A few more recent ones rub it (metaphorically) in your face and loudly mock the fact that you don't have one. Those same people tell you

"hey, we got to this party when it started, it's only fair that you sit there and wait for four hours like the rest of us did." 

Not even half that time later they're on to the next party, and that one has pizza. And you're still at the party prior waiting for your cupcake. 

I'd drop that friend like new players would drop this game. 

Edit: Oh, and every time you have to get up and go do something like use the bathroom, that timer is paused and you still have to wait four hours + whatever time you weren't there waiting

 

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

Read theelixs explanation again, i grow tired of explaining the same thing over and over again:

It could be that you are just either not explaining your point well or completely ignoring the other side of things.  If your point is the same as Theelix, then you definitely didn't explain it right.  but here's the difference.  I'm willing to see the perspective as a new player (I still remember what it was like when I started last year).  It's just that you guys haven't tried to see it from the perspective of the other side and don't seem to care.  

In Theelix's example, I personally wouldn't have had any problems waiting my turn patiently.  Just like I've done this entire year and half that I've been playing.  

 

Edit: now I'm going to rank up the Zenith that I just got a few minutes ago for patiently waiting after I first heard of it.  :D

Edited August 12, 2017 by DatDarkOne
additional info

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

21 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It could be that you are just either not explaining your point well or completely ignoring the other side of things.  If your point is the same as Theelix, then you definitely didn't explain it right.  but here's the difference.  I'm willing to see the perspective as a new player (I still remember what it was like when I started last year).  It's just that you guys haven't tried to see it from the perspective of the other side and don't seem to care.  

In Theelix's example, I personally wouldn't have had any problems waiting my turn patiently.  Just like I've done this entire year and half that I've been playing.  

Here's how I look at it from your side:

I started playing the game from or near the beginning. When I hit 100 days the highest person was at 150. So the longest I ever have to wait for the newly announced reward is 50 days. Always within sight. 

My buddy starts playing. Sees a weapon I'm using. Wants to try it and finds out it's a log in reward. My response "yea it's crazy that you have to wait 2 years for this awesome weapon. I don't really think it's fair that just because I found this game before you I get to use this awesome weapon way before you.  I wish there was a way you could earn in SOONER. Then we can both use it!" 

Now if it was a cosmetic like a syandana I would have no problem saying sorry you have to play for 2 years to look this cool.

Also think about the fact that as the logins progress this situation will get worse and worse. There is literally NO way to ever catch up with an infinite log in system. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by (PS4)CaseFace8
typo

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, PakkiTheDog said:

You are basically saying you are ignoring 2 topics i listed, as you saw them "not good enough" reasons. That is not how discussions work.

The points being:

1. Denying someone an item for no real reason or any profit whatsoever.... 

2....my experience and yours is not the same, your waiting for 50 days is not equal to my waiting of 200+ days.

In life, sometimes luck and timing are everything.  Obviously persistence is part of this equation.

Should I quit now because Excaliber Prime is forever beyond my reach?

The system has a two-fold purpose.  Reward new players so they stay engaged to fully understand what WF offers.  Reward vets for their long term loyalty.

 

 

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

Here's how I look at it from your side:

I started playing the game from or near the beginning. When I hit 100 days the highest person was at 150. So the longest I ever have to wait for the newly announced reward is 50 days. Always within sight. 

My buddy starts playing. Sees a weapon I'm using. Wants to try it and finds out it's a log in reward. My response "yea it's crazy that you have to wait 2 years for this awesome weapon. I don't really think it's fair that just because I found this game before you I get to use this awesome weapon way before you.  I wish there was a way you could earn in sooner. Then we can both use it!" 

Now if it was a cosmetic like a syandana I would have no problem saying sorry you have to play for 2 years to look this cool.

Also think about the fact that as the logins progress this situation will get worse and worse. There is literally NO way to ever catch up with an infinite log in system. 

Thank you.  I can completely agree that there isn't a way to catch up in infinite log in system.  In that regard, I can completely agree that any more weapons/mods shouldn't be added as one way to correct it.  

[PakkiTheDog]

Sorry, going to far, tired of this arguing, no more patience. I'm out.

Edited August 12, 2017 by PakkiTheDog

[MagPrime]

25 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Thank you.  I can completely agree that there isn't a way to catch up in infinite log in system.  In that regard, I can completely agree that any more weapons/mods shouldn't be added as one way to correct it.  

What kinds of things could be added as an incentive though?

It's been made pretty clear that the primary reason many people (this is from other threads, not just this one) are only logging in to up their counter and then more often then not, log out and never actually play the game until they get the item they want.

Take away the perks, and they stop logging in after they hit the 600 day limit.  This would defeat the purpose of the login reward system entirely.

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

It's been made pretty clear that the primary reason many people (this is from other threads, not just this one) are only logging in to up their counter and then more often then not, log out and never actually play the game until they get the item they want.

Take away the perks, and they stop logging in after they hit the 600 day limit.  This would defeat the purpose of the login reward system entirely.

I will be as honest in my answer to that as I can get away with.  F1#$!% them!  If they are only logging in for the rewards and not actually playing the game then I couldn't care less about them.  

I know that's probably mean.  It's just how can I even care about someone that I'll likely never meet in game because they aren't playing the game.  :D

Edit: I just realized that I didn't give you a suggestion.

9 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

What kinds of things could be added as an incentive though?

In all honesty, I was quite happy with the Sigils, boosters, etc.  I'm kinda easily appeased in that way.  I can't really speak for others.

Edited August 12, 2017 by DatDarkOne
additional info

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

What kinds of things could be added as an incentive though?

It's been made pretty clear that the primary reason many people (this is from other threads, not just this one) are only logging in to up their counter and then more often then not, log out and never actually play the game until they get the item they want.

Take away the perks, and they stop logging in after they hit the 600 day limit.  This would defeat the purpose of the login reward system entirely.

You could still do the cosmetic packs that you get at like 150, 250 and so on. 

You could also do a short term log in reward in addition. Like every 7 logins you get a reward. These would be much easier to update to say something like this  month its rifle rivers and next month it's melee riven. 

adding in shorter term rewards would still encourage daily log in and also provide greater flexibility for the type of rewards. 

[S0V3REiGN]

The problem with short term rewards rewards is that a large portion of the player base looks at its as pointless. Get what? Resources? The players that invest a lot in the game have mountains of them. Cosmetics will return to the same issue of people *@##$ing that they have to "earn" them like those that login every day.  What exactly are you proposing that is neither arbitrarily pointless and fair to those that chose to play warframe at their own pace?

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

You could still do the cosmetic packs that you get at like 150, 250 and so on. 

You could also do a short term log in reward in addition. Like every 7 logins you get a reward. These would be much easier to update to say something like this  month its rifle rivers and next month it's melee riven. 

adding in shorter term rewards would still encourage daily log in and also provide greater flexibility for the type of rewards. 

This could also have the side benefit of making baro the only real place for primed mods. While this is also a time gate to a certain extent, he brings things back on a semi regular basis. This also give the vets a boost as they can easily afford them and sell the for plat. 

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I will be as honest in my answer to that as I can get away with.  F1#$!% them!  If they are only logging in for the rewards and not actually playing the game then I couldn't care less about them.  

I know that's probably mean.  It's just how can I even care about someone that I'll likely never meet in game because they aren't playing the game.  :D

lol I feel the same way.  Main reason I want a different login reward mechanic is to actually encourage people to play the game, not just put a new scratch on the wall. 

Overall, I think putting power creep in the login rewards was a terrible idea.

Just now, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

You could still do the cosmetic packs that you get at like 150, 250 and so on. 

You could also do a short term log in reward in addition. Like every 7 logins you get a reward. These would be much easier to update to say something like this  month its rifle rivers and next month it's melee riven. 

adding in shorter term rewards would still encourage daily log in and also provide greater flexibility for the type of rewards. 

I don't know anyone that is excited to get the cosmetic packs.  By the time most players get them, they're aren't in sore need of the potatoes.  IIRC, I'm sitting on over 20 of both gold and blue potatoes, 5 tomatoes and uhg, I don't want to think about how many puzzle pieces I have. 

The sigil is neat, but doesn't really work with anything I run, cosmetically, so more of the 50 day packs simply aren't an incentive for someone like me.  And I'd like to avoid more power creep items in the login rewards.  It just leads to more topics like this.

But I do agree with your last statement.  The current rewards are really stretched out.  I think it's part of the reason so many people get discouraged about them, all they see is "another 50 days?!  I don't care anymore."  A lot of people want the instant gratification and Warframe doesn't offer that.

1 minute ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

This could also have the side benefit of making baro the only real place for primed mods. While this is also a time gate to a certain extent, he brings things back on a semi regular basis. This also give the vets a boost as they can easily afford them and sell the for plat. 

I would like to see Baro get more use.  He has a lot of potential.

[stormsasuke180]

My issue isn't that login rewards exist. The issue is that it has gone too far. 600 days? Isn't that a bit too much? Imagine that you get a Warframe for 2000 days logged in. Someone gets it. A new player sees it and thinks it is really cool. They ask how do they get it. Login 2000 days. That doesn't really make sense right. Now the same reasoning can be applied to the stuff we already have. Not as far but still really far. The Azima was a somewhat reasonable sense. It encouraged players to login a decent amount. It wasn't too far and wasn't that great. They should just stop adding more gameplay rewards as a login bonus.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, stormsasuke180 said:

The Azima was a somewhat reasonable sense. It encouraged players to login a decent amount. It wasn't too far and wasn't that great.

I can tell you right away that the Zenith is pretty much the Stradavar but with double slash damage and more status chance.  Since the Stradavar is only liked by a few (like me :D), then you can imagine what most think or will think of the Zenith.  

[Knight_Ex]

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

 

You arrive late to a party for your new friend; you weren't told until he text you late into the party after realizing he never actually sent your invitation. The party started four hours ago, but they just gave out the cupcakes. Everyone's enjoying those cupcakes, a few of them just got theirs and are telling you about how good it is. A few more recent ones rub it (metaphorically) in your face and loudly mock the fact that you don't have one. Those same people tell you

"hey, we got to this party when it started, it's only fair that you sit there and wait for four hours like the rest of us did." 

Not even half that time later they're on to the next party, and that one has pizza. And you're still at the party prior waiting for your cupcake. 

I'd drop that friend like new players would drop this game. 

Edit: Oh, and every time you have to get up and go do something like use the bathroom, that timer is paused and you still have to wait four hours + whatever time you weren't there waiting

Go to a restaurant, wait to be seated....NO I DON"T WANNA, just kick the people in that table out first and pay attention to me, I'm new I deserve to be pampered, my money is better than theirs!  Why do I have to sit here and wait to be seated just cause they got here before me, its just not fair this system is broken I demand the manager come out here and give me a table exactly like that! wah wah wah.... sound familiar?   Moral of the story, "suck it up buttercup, you need to tredge through the wastelands like all of us, just cause you think you can come in and demand something because your new and want it doesn't make you entitled to it, we were eating here first so sit down shut up and take a number.

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

1 minute ago, S0V3REiGN said:

The problem with short term rewards rewards is that a large portion of the player base looks at its as pointless. Get what? Resources? The players that invest a lot in the game have mountains of them. Cosmetics will return to the same issue of people *@##$ing that they have to "earn" them like those that login every day.  What exactly are you proposing that is neither arbitrarily pointless and fair to those that chose to play warframe at their own pace?

The "reward" system as a whole is flawed. 

While people might complain about cosmetic rewards that is something that most mmo type games do. And since it has zero effect on gameplay no one can really argue that it effects their gameplay experience. 

Finding something worthwhile for shorter term rewards is definitely not an easy answer.

Maybe make the change with POE. In theory a whole new world for warframe. DE could add something that you earn that would be greatly beneficial for POE that new and old players would both want. 

[Emolition]

I run 3-8 games atm that I login daily  and with my old computer some of the "newer" games take time so i spend between 10-30min deppending on if I do all or just the 3 best ones. And some of this games I haven't played in a long time and might not play for over a year but doing the logins just incase I return to the game.  Guild wars 2 1 game I didn't play for over a year but did login pretty much every day by the time I came back I had alot of laurels I could trade for alot of gold.

So I never had a problem with games having login rewards  but I don't like the style warframe used to have that if you missed 1 day you start over  at day one. But maybe we should return that system so if you miss day 599 you start over at day 1 just for the fun off it =P

And be happy atm warframe only got day 600  in marvel heroes Im around day 1200 =P

[Phatose]

Idea:  Let the login reward system be the solution to the issues raised here.

At day 650 and beyond, the 50 day checkpoint reward is a single use item.  It can only be used if you're at less then 600 days, and has a 2 week timeout between uses.  It's tradable and giftable, and when used, it adds 50 days to your login reward point and immediately gives you the next reward level.

That way we're no longer adding new rewards, creating a situation where a new player is always 600 days away from the new addition, kept that way in perpetuity by adding more rewards.  The long term veteran players get a reward which doesn't benefit them directly, but will have considerable trade value.  The kind of value that a lucky newer player who gets a decent riven will be very interested as a trade item, and so forth.  Or that clan leaders can use as a reward for newer players contributing to the clan, and so forth. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Phatose

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

14 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Go to a restaurant, wait to be seated....NO I DON"T WANNA, just kick the people in that table out first and pay attention to me, I'm new I deserve to be pampered, my money is better than theirs!  Why do I have to sit here and wait to be seated just cause they got here before me, its just not fair this system is broken I demand the manager come out here and give me a table exactly like that! wah wah wah.... sound familiar?   Moral of the story, "suck it up buttercup, you need to tredge through the wastelands like all of us, just cause you think you can come in and demand something because your new and want it doesn't make you entitled to it, we were eating here first so sit down shut up and take a number.

You know what you sound like? The kid that goes to the park and when he doesn't get his way takes the ball and runs home so that no one can play. 

Everyone shouldn't have to suffer if there is a better way. You want to make a game die? Alienate all of the new players. Make them feel like they can never get on your level. Eventually even the most loyal vets will move on to other games. And If new players don't feel welcomed or valued they will quickly leave for other games.

And where does that leave you. Sitting with your ball alone. 

[Knight_Ex]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

You know what you sound like? The kid that goes to the park and when he doesn't get his way takes the ball and runs home so that no one can play. 

Everyone shouldn't have to suffer if there is a better way. You want to make a game die? Alienate all of the new players. Make them feel like they can never get on your level. Eventually even the most loyal vets will move on to other games. And If new players don't feel welcomed or valued they will quickly leave for other games.

And where does that leave you. Sitting with your ball alone. 

My ball is better than yours anyway.

[DatDarkOne]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

Eventually even the most loyal vets will move on to other games.

No game really lasts forever.  There will always be some thing that will cause a player to either move on or stop playing.  Thinking otherwise just wouldn't be realistic.  :D

Also as crazy as Knight's example is, I and people I know have actually seen that scenario in real life.  Sadly more than once.  

Edited August 12, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

No game really lasts forever.  There will always be some thing that will cause a player to either move on or stop playing.  Thinking otherwise just wouldn't be realistic.  :D

Also as crazy as Knight's example is, I and people I know have actually seen that scenario in real life.  Sadly more than once.  

I've seen it, but it really doesn't apply to the topic.  No one is being booted from a que, in any way. 

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I've seen it, but it really doesn't apply to the topic.  No one is being booted from a que, in any way. 

It was more about skipping the line.  :D  We already addressed that and no need to go down that path again.  :D

[MagPrime]

17 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It was more about skipping the line.  :D  We already addressed that and no need to go down that path again.  :D

I think that's the biggest problem, there isn't really a line.

Although, this does remind me of a guy at the book store.  Two registers open, but for some reason everyone was que'ing up for only one of them.  When another guy saw that the second register was open, he naturally went to the empty one.  The guy behind me got upset, accused the other guy of cutting in line and insisted the other guy get to the back.  When the second guy said no, the first one got upset, yelled, threw things and stormed out the door.

 

[Bouldershoulder]

6 hours ago, PakkiTheDog said:

The way you describe your experience i'd immediately put you in the "don't really care about the milestone" group. And like it was said multiple times before, if a couple of people don't have a problem with a part of the game that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. Hema anyone?

You are wrong. I clearly stated that I was interested in getting those weapons.

Hema is junk

Edited August 12, 2017 by Bouldershoulder