Modding, formas, focus and operators, what i wish they could do

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Alot of warframes should be simpler to mod simply because everyone seems to play them the same way. Yes, you have options, but theres usually a "best way" to mod something that makes those options look silly. I simply wish maglev, warmcoat and such mods were viable in these situations, because they would add alot of variety to the game and warframe builds. If DE would allow abilities themselves to have one slot (augment, utility and mobility) that might make a liitle more room for these mods.

DE already said no augment slots? Not asking for augment slots. I am asking for modding to be rethought.

Im hoping for abilities to do more one day, and think mods would also allow them to without adding too much work for the devs. If you have ever played transistor, that would be what im thinking of.

In the picture, you see a point system like warframe, each ability has a drain, and the main ability is placed in the "active slot" (in warframe, as per this concept, this would only change with dev made augments) and an upgrade slot effect, being the mod you put under the active slot. The two combined create a different ability, and have a secret passive effect. In Transistor specifically, two "cards" can be placed on an ability. I would ask this for warframe, but the combinations would only increase exponentially...

Examples: If i put retribution on volts sheild, it would deal damage back to melee enemies. But some mods would have to be coded to do something... If i could put fortitude on electric sheild, it would receive knockdown resistance (as you can be knocked down while behind it) and increased duration(?). Or automatic shock damage from attacks (shocking the sheild adds electrical damage as is now). But a mod like fortitude would have to do something different if it were placed on something like novas wormhole.

Theres a possiblity the mods dont need to be changed for every ability. If you were compelled to put fortitude on wormhole (against common sense) it could simply just use the same stats, and apply them upon using wormhole, so you have knockdown resistance upon exiting and added sheild recharge. And then changing the way the mod affects electric sheild would be unreasonable.

 Although that barely does anything that it wouldnt do on any other frame, i guess its really not a problem. Your getting more mods. If there was time to code every mod to every ability, you could reverse fortitude in this way, to affect enemies, adding knockdown on wormhole upon exit, and reducing enemy sheilds when hit with the knockdown, while shocking them and adding duration to electric sheild...but i think just applying the same base stats of the mod to a specific ability is easier.

--->augment mods could have been left much more vague and not been frame specific...<-----

Volt dreams : If i put warmcoat on speed, it will reduce the slow effects of ice procs while running under speed. Lightning rod on discharge would slow damage output, effectively increasing damage cap. 

Putting handspring on rhinos stomp would speed the ability up, allowing for faster casting.

Flame repellent on Embers fire wall would remove fire procs and reduce fire damage taken while standing in the ring.

Mods would probably still just work best if put in the right scenario, but you can use any mod, you would just have room for more, and every mod would infact do what it says it does.

Etc.

Self made augments.

Within reason.

Thats if this ever happened. Right now its a silly concept im typing for fun.

The drain on the cards would be taken into account. Some of those numbers need to be fixed of cousre. Each ability will have its own ability points that can be exceeded, but the more in the red you are, the more downsides there are. 

What happens to current augments? Dev made augments will be put directly over an ability, overiding its current function as it does now, and then a mod can be placed on it, though the drain from both cards is taken into account. It may be beneficial then to not allow augments to be placed on the warframe itself, other than the exilus slot.

I think the focus schools are what DE had in mind when creating mods in the first place. We need zenurik and unairu mods of course. 

--->more involvement with the focus schools would be nice.

--->The exilus mod slot should also be rethought, as to what mods would go here. As some augment mods and mobility mods currently can be used here, there should be an added effect when putting a mod here, even if its something as simple as a mod being in the exilus slots gives it greater effectiveness against sentients. 

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Putting a forma on a frame would give one point that could be applied to one of the 4 abilities, to increase the drain limit.

Forma should leave mods on frames, only darkening them, showing that they are not yet been unlocked if they exceed the drain limit. Removing a mod and redoing your whole set up would then be up to you. Relying on affinity gains to relevel a frame is also questionable. A new method would be appreciated. If it worked like rivens, or used the acheivements from the start of the mission, this would help. Or something...

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Focus: the two seperate uses for the operator need to be merged into one. That is, instead of either collapsing out of your warframe and floating around shooting energy OR walking out the back with a hundred energy and hundred health, the operator should do both itself. 

One function was created before the other, but why they still exist seperately, i do not know.

The operator should have full use of the built up energy, or really, those two energy sources when in a mission with its frame. And when the second energy meter is full, be able to use its "ultimate", etc.

Watching Gargantia on the verduos planet this past weekend finally changed something in my mind about my dislike of operators ( i have not played titan fall). Both should have a role to play.

Infact, because of my love of warframes (and belief that they should do so much more) i instead think that now, a warframe in which the operator could accomplish things the frame couldnt, using a secondary or even melee weapon outside of the frame, would be perfect. If done right. For one, operators should not only be capable of melee like when frames arecaptured by the harvester (electricity and all) but be able to block, stealth kill, dodge and dash and even flat out use crazy martial arts stances that may or may not be mods. They would have stat points affecting their strength/attack speed (madurai), void energy capacity/regeneration (zenurik), regenrative capabilities/health pool (viazarin), damage resistance/damage reflection (unairu) and stealth/speed (naramon).

Easier movement for both. 

And thats about it for this half thought. More would come, but ill just post it.

Edited July 25, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Adding grammar as i go

[Lukkiete]

Bravo...?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 minutes ago, VoidKidFromZariman said:

Bravo...?

Thanks...? Its a questionable idea isnt it?

[Zeyez]

since i watched Transistor before, i could say it was pleasant to see this game and i will look at my Point of View about this:

how you will balance those effects on abilities, since we can use any mod on any ability as "augment"?

let's try to list some strange things that could happen:

1- Endurance Drift on high energy cost ability... what's will happen? (you will allow mods that can't be used on exilus slot, right?)

2- if i put Handspring on Volt's Speed, that means that everybody affected by the ability will have faster recovery speed? (one less reason to use constitution)

3- Rush could become mandatory as augment, since on use, you will earn movement speed for few moments... but some warframes always has one ability to spam and keep this effect always active (ember's World on Fire, Exalted Blade... those things)... how to control that?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

since i watched Transistor before, i could say it was pleasant to see this game and i will look at my Point of View about this:

how you will balance those effects on abilities, since we can use any mod on any ability as "augment"?

let's try to list some strange things that could happen:

1- Endurance Drift on high energy cost ability... what's will happen? (you will allow mods that can't be used on exilus slot, right?)

2- if i put Handspring on Volt's Speed, that means that everybody affected by the ability will have faster recovery speed? (one less reason to use constitution)

3- Rush could become mandatory as augment, since on use, you will earn movement speed for few moments... but some warframes always has one ability to spam and keep this effect always active (ember's World on Fire, Exalted Blade... those things)... how to control that?

I was looking through the mods while typing this and getting discouraged.

Unless the mod simply does what it says on the card, it would require the devs to work on the ability, and i know nothing of coding. If mods are left as is, or any mod can be put it, then some mods should still affect the frame, and some should only affect the ability.

I can provide simple answers. Its a simple idea. But in trying to propose something that is easy for the devs to do, i have no clue. For examples 1 through 5....

1). Double stat mods like Endurance drift would have a pretty high drain any way. Though, for those who have put 50 plus forma into their frames for giggles, no drain i propose would ever make a difference. But its a start. If it simply did what the mod said, then when you activated the power it was placed on, the effects would apply to your frame for a short time. If it worked around the ability, if might give energy back on cast while increasing cast speed in air.

2). I would imagine every ability would only effect enemies negatively. It would also only work for you, unless the ability already affect the whole team...(this may not be fair). In order for shock specifically to spread to allies, you would need to use shock trooper, and would have a double drain. Something like handspring on shock trooper might then add the effect to allies, while handspring on shock alone might just add a stagger and slow to an enemy after being stunned.

3. Hhmmm. If the restriction is time based, it is only necessary to decast, and cast again, which would only serve to annoy without really changing the fact the effect is always there. Those frames CAN run out of energy, but it shouldnt be necessary to rely on frames running out of energy to say something is balanced...

Diminishing returns is the easy way out of this tough question...

Answer: Abilities need to be seperated into classes based on how they use energy. Duration based (electic sheild), Energy drain (wof), strength based(miasma), Specialty (abilities that dont rely on energy like inaros scarab armor and nekros despoil). Each class reacts to a mods drain differently

This is just an idea, your question is a tough one.

Energy over time + time ability is kept up=diminishing returns on damage, range, and status effects--->focus meter can be emptied to set abilities back to white.

Duration based+number of same ability active/ consecutive times used=decreases duration over time

Strength based+number of times used =stat falloff (range, duration, effeciency) 

Specialty+ duration used/held up = smaller rewards upon ability use/lesser effect. 

The ability must be selected (even if not enough energy, the ability will be selected by trying to use it), and the operator from inside the warframe, using the same button once used to activate the focus power, can "cleanse" it (as the operator now can can use the focus power while in operator mode)

 The drain can be in the negative, but negative effects increase the lower into negatives you go. In a mission, even if you have formad your frame 100 times, and put all 100 points into one power (lets say world on fire) the drain would render it null, because it would increase multiplicatively. So if you had rush on a Wof Ember, which would be a drain over time ability sprint speed gained from the ability would diminish over time. This would be indicated where you can see your abilities, as they would turn from white to pink to red to dark red to black. At black, the ability is affecting you in reverse of what the card states.  

 

[Zeyez]

100 forma.... to remove the negative drain.... so we need 400+ forma to maximize an warframe...... which is required 24 hours to craft an single one...

you created an "Pay to Win" monster

No, just no

 

the basic concept of what are you saying was using our actual mods to give some extra "functions" based on equipped mod (assuming that you were using exilus and other unused mods for this), and later, you started creating this... abomination...

 

i asked those "difficult questions" for you to make sure that your idea was solid enough, after all, that is one of the ways the player can dictate the path of the game, like:

- Shield Gating (announced, but not in-game yet)

- Zephyr warframe's concept (besides of the change in gender)

- Changes on Peacemaker/Greedy Pull Combination (in old Draco, this was terrible)

- AFK system

- toggleable skills(Exalted Blade, World on Fire...) that dictate the permanent use of the abilities while you have energy

...

 

 

try to rethink about this idea once again

its not bad, but if something needs to have down size, keep it

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

49 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

100 forma.... to remove the negative drain.... so we need 400+ forma to maximize an warframe...... which is required 24 hours to craft an single one...

you created an "Pay to Win" monster

No, just no

 

the basic concept of what are you saying was using our actual mods to give some extra "functions" based on equipped mod (assuming that you were using exilus and other unused mods for this), and later, you started creating this... abomination...

 

i asked those "difficult questions" for you to make sure that your idea was solid enough, after all, that is one of the ways the player can dictate the path of the game, like:

- Shield Gating (announced, but not in-game yet)

- Zephyr warframe's concept (besides of the change in gender)

- Changes on Peacemaker/Greedy Pull Combination (in old Draco, this was terrible)

- AFK system

- toggleable skills(Exalted Blade, World on Fire...) that dictate the permanent use of the abilities while you have energy

...

 

 

try to rethink about this idea once again

its not bad, but if something needs to have down size, keep it

I started thinking about a downside to add and got carried away.

To be honest, gaining rush while using an energy over-time ability wouldnt really be a problem to me. Simple stat increases are fine, you would gain rush the whole mission if you put it on your frame instead anyways. Most of these mods really dont change much, but its hard to say what 4 more mods added to the equation might do, usefulness aside.

I started thinking about natural talent, and thats where it ran away.

Train of thought: If you had natural talent on wof, the flames would probably shoot faster. Probably. Simply being able to only cast wof itself faster would only be useful for decreasing the amount of time you arent running it.

I kind of imagined the mods having passive effects, so in my mind, it would cause wof to burn faster. A limiter to this, is if the energy drain was just as fast as the flames. But if you were built for efficiency, and/or gaining energy from some other source, would you really have a problem keeping it up? 

Then diminishing returns would help, but its not fair to treat a energy over time ability the same as a duration ability, they get used differently (thats why data collected on what warframe abilities were used the most often was bad).

So...

Its not really supposed to need 100 forma. I didnt give any kind of numbers though. 

In your opinion, is it a valid trad off, that you would recieve 4 more slots, for the negative of that mod just affecting one ability or the frame, without a passive effect,but just the stat on the mod, with some mods affecting the frame during ability use, and some mods affecting the ability?