Serious issues with the Login System (and Primed Shred)

[Culaio]

14 hours ago, zNightWolfz said:

i disagree why shouldn't we be rewarded with things like zenistar and primed mods for playing for the time we have..Its not like you cant play without the mods so your not missing out really. i think all these sorts of threads are BS.You just want a easier faster way to get the items and don't want to play for so long  that what it seems like..

 

problem is that game progression is tied to mastery of weapons so any weapons in this system affect your whole game experiance, like:

• daily trading limit
• maximum Void Trace capacity by 50 per rank
• maximum daily bonus amount of Syndicate standing by ‍1000 (Conclave is considered a Syndicate for the purposes of bonus standing)
• amount of point weapon/frame starts with
• cap on the amount of Loadout slots

As you can see it affects many things, and like I mentioned in one of my previous posts 1-2 years to get something is not so bad but what happens when people have to wait 5/7/10 years to get something, it will push away new players, maybe no all of them but some people for sure, if you really prefer to feel like special snowflake  even at cost of making game less attactive to new players then I am sorry to say it but you are bad for this game.

And dont say primed mods dont make a difference, yes in normal play it doesnt but it can make a difference when you want to get a gold trophy for your very small clan in events in game, for example during ambulas reborn event I got 250 points for my clan and single handedly won gold for my clan(I am not alone in my clan but rest of my clan is much less experianced then me so they got very little points, also I was helping another guy who alone was doing event for his clan, I needed less then 200 for my clan to get gold but the guy needed 240 for his clan so I stayed with him until the end). So what I am trying to say is that, primed mods DO matter.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

10 minutes ago, Culaio said:

-snip-

Fun fact: it takes all players the exact same amount of "time" to acquire all rewards. That being said, a pretty decent compromise was suggested in this thread.

[Maercurial]

There are no serious issues with it, everyone starts at day one and that's how it should be. Same rules for everyone. And as mentioned, none of the Rewards are essential for gameplay. They're decent additions, but aren't terribly important, so having them as long term goals doesn't hurt anyone, and it's not like this has been any different ever since that system was released. We had to wait for those rewards too.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Maercurial
correction

[Teridax68]

While I don't believe Primed Shred will majorly warp the game by itself, I agree that direct increases in power shouldn't be our core means of progression, as it's this gradual power creep that has warped the game's balance significantly, and led to some pretty awful mechanics to control our strength, i.e. Nullifiers/overabundance of ability denial, excessive enemy armor/damage scaling at high levels, cheap enemy CC, etc. If anything, just adding more unique weapon lines could help, as one new weapon every 50 days would by no means present a hassle for the design team at their current pace.

[[DE]Momaw]

3 hours ago, Culaio said:

problem is that game progression is tied to mastery of weapons

We already have exclusive founder gear and extremely low availability on event weapons. 3 weapons from login rewards isn't going to be a significant drain your potential mastery when we have literally hundreds of other weapons for you to use. And why shouldn't the players who have been around the longest have the highest mastery?  If only by a sliver?  The way it works right now, if you have absolutely everything you get to the next mastery a couple of weeks ahead of the herd and then DE releases some new stuff and everybody catches up. I haven't run the numbers but I'm pretty sure at this point you could miss EVERY login reward and EVERY event weapon, and still be solidly into the middle of MR23, which is higher than any weapon prerequisite or quest prerequisite. You miss out on a tiny bit of rep grinding and one free mod point for new gear, that's it.  It just doesn't seem that serious.

[Culaio]

7 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Fun fact: it takes all players the exact same amount of "time" to acquire all rewards. That being said, a pretty decent compromise was suggested in this thread.

will you say same thing when people will have to wait 10 years to get those things...

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

We already have exclusive founder gear and extremely low availability on event weapons. 3 weapons from login rewards isn't going to be a significant drain your potential mastery when we have literally hundreds of other weapons for you to use. And why shouldn't the players who have been around the longest have the highest mastery?  If only by a sliver?  The way it works right now, if you have absolutely everything you get to the next mastery a couple of weeks ahead of the herd and then DE releases some new stuff and everybody catches up. I haven't run the numbers but I'm pretty sure at this point you could miss EVERY login reward and EVERY event weapon, and still be solidly into the middle of MR23, which is higher than any weapon prerequisite or quest prerequisite. You miss out on a tiny bit of rep grinding and one free mod point for new gear, that's it.  It just doesn't seem that serious.

yes there is founder gear but the less exclusive weapon there is the better, and if DE continues to add exclusive weapons as login rewards then the problem will grow, and people defending this system want MORE rewards like that...

 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, Culaio said:

will you say same thing when people will have to wait 10 years to get those things...

Yep.

[MagPrime]

7 hours ago, Momaw said:

We already have exclusive founder gear and extremely low availability on event weapons. 3 weapons from login rewards isn't going to be a significant drain your potential mastery when we have literally hundreds of other weapons for you to use. And why shouldn't the players who have been around the longest have the highest mastery?  If only by a sliver?  The way it works right now, if you have absolutely everything you get to the next mastery a couple of weeks ahead of the herd and then DE releases some new stuff and everybody catches up. I haven't run the numbers but I'm pretty sure at this point you could miss EVERY login reward and EVERY event weapon, and still be solidly into the middle of MR23, which is higher than any weapon prerequisite or quest prerequisite. You miss out on a tiny bit of rep grinding and one free mod point for new gear, that's it.  It just doesn't seem that serious.

Actually, clan mate and my brother have hit MR24 and they are lacking (most if not all) login weapons, Founders gear and CBT items.  So it's entirely possible to get to the highest MR available for any veteran/dedicated player. 

[MagPrime]

2 hours ago, Culaio said:

will you say same thing when people will have to wait 10 years to get those things...

yes there is founder gear but the less exclusive weapon there is the better, and if DE continues to add exclusive weapons as login rewards then the problem will grow, and people defending this system want MORE rewards like that...

 

Personally, I agree with cutting down on exclusive affinity granting items.  Even though it is entirely possible for a multi year vet to attain highest MR right now, just on principle, MR affinity shouldn't be locked away.

 

[[DE]Momaw]

But login weapons aren't exclusive.  Anybody can get them, if they show the same commitment to the game that other veteran players have. Since DE mentioned they would like to bring back Lato and Braton vandal, the only REAL exclusives in the game are founder's gear and a handful of weird exotica like skull emblems and primed chamber.

[Faulcun]

12 hours ago, Culaio said:

problem is that game progression is tied to mastery of weapons so any weapons in this system affect your whole game experiance, like:

• daily trading limit
• maximum Void Trace capacity by 50 per rank
• maximum daily bonus amount of Syndicate standing by ‍1000 (Conclave is considered a Syndicate for the purposes of bonus standing)
• amount of point weapon/frame starts with
• cap on the amount of Loadout slots

As you can see it affects many things, and like I mentioned in one of my previous posts 1-2 years to get something is not so bad but what happens when people have to wait 5/7/10 years to get something, it will push away new players, maybe no all of them but some people for sure, if you really prefer to feel like special snowflake  even at cost of making game less attactive to new players then I am sorry to say it but you are bad for this game.

And dont say primed mods dont make a difference, yes in normal play it doesnt but it can make a difference when you want to get a gold trophy for your very small clan in events in game, for example during ambulas reborn event I got 250 points for my clan and single handedly won gold for my clan(I am not alone in my clan but rest of my clan is much less experianced then me so they got very little points, also I was helping another guy who alone was doing event for his clan, I needed less then 200 for my clan to get gold but the guy needed 240 for his clan so I stayed with him until the end). So what I am trying to say is that, primed mods DO matter.

Id just like to point out the current available mastery purely from login rewards is 0.61% of the game's mastery content.

If a new player is judging the entire game based on 0.61% of the content, and turn away..... then i dont really care to make a change to a system or a special compromise for that player as they are starting this process with an unreasonable action to begin with. In fact, id say i wish them the best of luck and dont let the door hit you on the way out.

And if one single mod is the key to your success in any mission... or you fail without it, then im afraid i have to inform you that you may have much larger issues to worry about than silly login rewards.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Faulcun

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

14 hours ago, Culaio said:

problem is that game progression is tied to mastery of weapons so any weapons in this system affect your whole game experiance, like:

• daily trading limit
• maximum Void Trace capacity by 50 per rank
• maximum daily bonus amount of Syndicate standing by ‍1000 (Conclave is considered a Syndicate for the purposes of bonus standing)
• amount of point weapon/frame starts with
• cap on the amount of Loadout slots

As you can see it affects many things, and like I mentioned in one of my previous posts 1-2 years to get something is not so bad but what happens when people have to wait 5/7/10 years to get something, it will push away new players, maybe no all of them but some people for sure, if you really prefer to feel like special snowflake  even at cost of making game less attactive to new players then I am sorry to say it but you are bad for this game.

And dont say primed mods dont make a difference, yes in normal play it doesnt but it can make a difference when you want to get a gold trophy for your very small clan in events in game, for example during ambulas reborn event I got 250 points for my clan and single handedly won gold for my clan(I am not alone in my clan but rest of my clan is much less experianced then me so they got very little points, also I was helping another guy who alone was doing event for his clan, I needed less then 200 for my clan to get gold but the guy needed 240 for his clan so I stayed with him until the end). So what I am trying to say is that, primed mods DO matter.

Yes primed mods does make a difference that is why they are hard to come by.

Yet you guys are shouting I want my primed S#&$ now and I dont want to work hard for it. 

The way I see it I feel that DE have been too generous giving primed parts to the point that everything should be given away.

Do you even think it is fair for those who spent the last 600days of their life to at least login everyday? Sure life gets away with warframe but that is how life is. This reward are for those who goes for that extra mile and not for those who cry to get what they want.

Only babies do that.

[Culaio]

8 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Yep.

you are horribly selfish person than.

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

But login weapons aren't exclusive.  Anybody can get them, if they show the same commitment to the game that other veteran players have. Since DE mentioned they would like to bring back Lato and Braton vandal, the only REAL exclusives in the game are founder's gear and a handful of weird exotica like skull emblems and primed chamber.

the thing is that new players wont even know if game will be alive in 5/7/10 years, so this may  become reason for new players not to start playing this game.

3 hours ago, Faulcun said:

Id just like to point out the current available mastery purely from login rewards is 0.61% of the game's mastery content.

If a new player is judging the entire game based on 0.61% of the content, and turn away..... then i dont really care to make a change to a system or a special compromise for that player as they are starting this process with an unreasonable action to begin with. In fact, id say i wish them the best of luck and dont let the door hit you on the way out.

And if one single mod is the key to your success in any mission... or you fail without it, then im afraid i have to inform you that you may have much larger issues to worry about than silly login rewards.

but it may grow in the future, like I mentioned in previous post people defending this system want DE to continue to give us rewards like new weapons/mods 

2 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

Yes primed mods does make a difference that is why they are hard to come by.

Yet you guys are shouting I want my primed S#&$ now and I dont want to work hard for it. 

The way I see it I feel that DE have been too generous giving primed parts to the point that everything should be given away.

Do you even think it is fair for those who spent the last 600days of their life to at least login everyday? Sure life gets away with warframe but that is how life is. This reward are for those who goes for that extra mile and not for those who cry to get what they want.

Only babies do that.

Dude, where did I say it was for me ? I am only 30 days(because of vacations this and previous year) behind, I dont mind I am behind, like I said 1-2 years to get login reward is not so bad, also this system has NOTHING to do with hard work I spend more hours on this game then many people who are up to date on loging in, IF you want this system to be based on hard work then ask DE to make it based on hours spend playing the game and not spending 5 min to login to game(but I am also agains this since it would still create problems for game). 

I am veteran player who doesnt need to feel like special snowflake, I just want this game to prosper, and this system will hurt player base and community, it wont happen now but it will happen in the future.

Also you are calling babies for 'crying' about this, while you are 'crying' about wanting to be special snowflake, hypocrisy at its finest.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Culaio

[VonDodo]

Korean mmorpg mentality strikes again :|

DE sometimes do this kind of mistakes......

 

This is an action game not a mmorpg... its OK to give aesthetic rewards to veterans (i am not that far from it either) its NOT OK to give mandatory mods to them.

 

This is basically a second riven for most players and pretty strong also.

So newbies have to be skilled and veterans have to faceroll the keyboard with this kind of rewards......

[Fallen_Echo]

25 minutes ago, Culaio said:

you are horribly selfish person than.

No hes not, hes right here.Login reward are there to reward commitement to the game. Everybody needs to reach equal logins to get their rewards. If it takes 10 years to reach a login tier than it takes 10 year to reach it, thats all. This system is fair and well designed.

29 minutes ago, Culaio said:

the thing is that new players wont even know if game will be alive in 5/7/10 years, so this may  become reason for new players not to start playing this game.

Thats true for every game out there, i have played games what had reward tiers for days spent and the game hasnt managed to stay alive for 2 years! Also these mods and weapons might be good but theyre an extremely small amount to what the game offers, if you leave for this reason i feel sorry for you.

32 minutes ago, Culaio said:

but it may grow in the future, like I mentioned in previous post people defending this system want DE to continue to give us rewards like new weapons/mods

Yeah in the next 3 years it could reach 1%! So horrible!

For every login reward added we get approx 10 new weapons and mods a year.

34 minutes ago, Culaio said:

I am veteran player who doesnt need to feel like special snowflake, I just want this game to prosper, and this system will hurt player base and community, it wont happen now but it will happen in the future.

No its not. This system is fine and works correctly. Like i said if you really put this game down because you cant get 1 weapon out of the existing 300 becuase you have to wait for it, i feel sorry for you.

This is almost the same as getting 100 billion dollars and you dont accept it becuase you cant buy the Mona Lisa to fill up your art collection.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

1 hour ago, Culaio said:

you are horribly selfish person than.

the thing is that new players wont even know if game will be alive in 5/7/10 years, so this may  become reason for new players not to start playing this game.

but it may grow in the future, like I mentioned in previous post people defending this system want DE to continue to give us rewards like new weapons/mods 

Dude, where did I say it was for me ? I am only 30 days(because of vacations this and previous year) behind, I dont mind I am behind, like I said 1-2 years to get login reward is not so bad, also this system has NOTHING to do with hard work I spend more hours on this game then many people who are up to date on loging in, IF you want this system to be based on hard work then ask DE to make it based on hours spend playing the game and not spending 5 min to login to game(but I am also agains this since it would still create problems for game). 

I am veteran player who doesnt need to feel like special snowflake, I just want this game to prosper, and this system will hurt player base and community, it wont happen now but it will happen in the future.

Also you are calling babies for 'crying' about this, while you are 'crying' about wanting to be special snowflake, hypocrisy at its finest.

My term is "you guys" then on the 3rd paragraph is yes a question pointed to you, but I am generalizing the community who are whining over simple things.

I am playing for around 1 year but my login day is around 190 because there is more to my life besides wf, so yeah I am a hippocrite who wants exclusivity in this game because I dont care if I reach all of the daily login rewards.

And also dont give that I just want this game to be better/prosper bs. All you are doing is making a toxic community that makes players go away. We both know that you guys just want to get the items easier.

Im not singing praises to de it is true that there are issues yes, every game does. The difference is I report to proper channels. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by (PS4)wildcats1369my
Im ingame 1year not 2

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

My term is "you guys" then on the 3rd paragraph is yes a question pointed to you, but I am generalizing the community who are whining over simple things.

I am playing for around 1 year but my login day is around 190 because there is more to my life besides wf, so yeah I am a hippocrite who wants exclusivity in this game because I dont care if I reach all of the daily login rewards.

And also dont give that I just want this game to be better/prosper bs. All you are doing is making a toxic community that makes players go away. We both know that you guys just want to get the items easier.

Im not singing praises to de it is true that there are issues yes, every game does. The difference is I report to proper channels. 

why would I want stuff I easier for myself, I am ONLY 30 days behind, 30 days is nothing, I pretty much have everything this game has to offer, I have almost every exclusive weapon in game(from events and stuff) other then founder and beta gear, you are accussing me of wanting things easy but you know what even thought I am not fan of pvp, I given it a try(both normal and lunaro) I even reached max rank in it, like I said in one of my previous posts I even spend 4+ hours in one mission just to get gold trophy for my clan and help my friend, so stop telling me I want stuff easier...

EDIT: What I am getting at is that the more content game has that is exclusive to only veterans the  less likely is for new players to start playing game, there is a reason why even most popular multiplayer games like wow offer shortcuts to higher level content(instant level 70 and so on), when distance between new players and veterans becomes too great, game becomes unattractive to new players, and if nothing is done about this, game will die eventually since no mmo game can survive on veterans alone.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Culaio

[Wesgile]

If the prizes weren't so impactful people wouldn't actually defend it so much.

And there will be a lot less complaints, too.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

37 minutes ago, Wesgile said:

If the prizes weren't so impactful people wouldn't actually defend it so much.

And there will be a lot less complaints, too.

Amen to that, but for them prime shred is a matter of life and death in wf

[(PSN)abbacephas]

6 hours ago, Culaio said:

you are horribly selfish person than.

Since it is clear you lack even the most rudimentary verbal comprehension and reasoning skills, I'm just going to return the favour in kind: "you are a horribly obnoxious and self-entitled person who feels people should be rewarded for not even showing a shred of commitment to a game whose very premise is based around farming and grinding. Making an argumentum ad absurdum doesn't aid in making your case either."

As I've stated already, a few in this thread have already attempted to create a meaningful workaround to the current system, which is far great contribution than anything you have attempted to date.

[Culaio]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Since it is clear you lack even the most rudimentary verbal comprehension and reasoning skills, I'm just going to return the favour in kind: "you are a horribly obnoxious and self-entitled person who feels people should be rewarded for not even showing a shred of commitment to a game whose very premise is based around farming and grinding. Making an argumentum ad absurdum doesn't aid in making your case either."

As I've stated already, a few in this thread have already attempted to create a meaningful workaround to the current system, which is far great contribution than anything you have attempted to date.

first I would be be self-entitled if I wanted this for myself which isnt true seeing I am only around 30 days behind, second this system has nothing to do with commitment, if it was it would reward people who spend more time playing game instead of people who login for 5 min, tell me which person should be rewarded if its based on commitment, person who one day spends 3+ hours but next day doesnt have time to loging because of having too much work, or person who during same two days, login for 5 min each day(for total of 10 min over two days), which is is more committed someone who spend 3+ hours or person who spend 10 min ?

yes this idea was mentioned before in this thread but even this isnt perfect.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Culaio

[(PSN)abbacephas]

7 minutes ago, Culaio said:

yes this idea was mentioned before in this thread but even this isnt perfect.

Ok smart guy, you propose something. At least then you'll have contributed in some meaningful way.

[Culaio]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Ok smart guy, you propose something. At least then you'll have contributed in some meaningful way.

I contributed to this discussion in meaningful way, I pointed out flaws in this system, in previous post.

In multiplayer games, distance between veterans and new players mustnt become too great unless you want less and less new players joining game, or do you believe that you know more about developing multiplier games then people like blizzard ? since they created shortcut for new players, do you believe that it was bad decision ?

 

[[DE]Momaw]

4 hours ago, Wesgile said:

If the prizes weren't so impactful people wouldn't actually defend it so much.

3 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

Amen to that, but for them prime shred is a matter of life and death in wf

The only login reward that's "meta" is the Zenistar, and it's a completely silly, lazy, OP weapon that should be rebalanced. I am completely in favor of changing this thing so that it stops being so high in people's mind because it's popular for all the wrong reasons. Azima and Zenith are okay but they're not game changing things that will handicap you if you don't have them. All the primed mods are just incremental improvements on stuff you can already get easily.  Primed shred, a matter of life or death?   Compared to regular Shred it changes your fire rate bonus from 1.3 to 1.55, an actual improvement of only 19%, and regular Shred already punches through most enemies just fine. So it's like, an extra 2-3 minutes of useful DPS scaling? Meanwhile headshots cause double damage, Molecular Prime causes double damage, Octavia can give you like.... quadruple damage. Having Primed Shred instead of regular Shred is not going to replace good gameplay or good team composition and by the time people actually qualify to get one they'll realize that.

People played Warframe for years before the login rewards system even existed and we got along just fine. Login rewards are not exclusive because anybody can get them, and they're also not essential to your success as a Tenno. They are badges of honor and slight performance increases for players that have shown years of dedication to the game. Stating that login rewards don't require dedication to get because they only require logins, not play time, seems wrong. Who is going to take the effort to log into a game that they aren't playing or caring about every single day for that long?

[(PSN)abbacephas]

6 minutes ago, Culaio said:

I contributed to this discussion in meaningful way, I pointed out flaws in this system, in previous post.

In multiplayer games, distance between veterans and new players mustnt become too great unless you want less and less new players joining game, or do you believe that you know more about developing multiplier games then people like blizzard ? since they created shortcut for new players, do you believe that it was bad decision ?

 

Sooooooo...you've got nothing. Got it. Thanks.