Ash bladestorm

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 8/3/2017 at 6:17 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

I offer a simple way to fix the clunkiness and the slowness of this skill.

 

NO!

[Torrempesta]

In fact my version of BS is not an Equinox/Ember-like kind of ultimate.
Exactly like Manics (I was refering to those ones before) you won't get an infinite and continuous amount of damage, but your clones would just act like Manics.

I don't know how to put it simplier than this.
Three dudes who just performs finishers/backstabs on enemies (of course Covert Letality won't work with them).

You are not invulnerable.
They are invulnerable only when they don't attack.
You get a lot of damages easily and still be able to play.

Rumble is not a good example just because those golems sucks.
They are not tanky past lvl 50 and they don't deal dmg.

[Endrance]

I main Ash since I've made it after the open beta release.

The one and only problem with the current blamestorm is the fact that clones only attack on 2nd and 3rd Mark.

This makes the skill slow and in someways, harmful. The skill should divide the number of targets evenly between Ash and their clones.

 

This way you could actually efficiently use the clones and make blamestorm faster.

 

Having clones locked to 2nd and 3rd Mark breaks most of the skill power.

[13QZXXTTX]

@Nazrethim Well well, I believe my eyes o.o, it you again

Back 2015/2016, that ASH "rework" happen right? Well Glad you admit it, Ash Rework was a waste of time, but it could have been worse, and we really in the END, waste time and effort not to have Ash literally Trash-Tier.

Why did DE has to EVER listen to those CRY of NERFS  (PvE mostlY) and AGREE to Deal with it? 

Yeah Ash 4 is OK. AFK?Yeah it do happen, but when you are in a Team, it get on your nerve? Hell, I have a bit of AFKs and you know I prefer Solo now. Out of peoples business and not forced to be drag to every Public Missions. 

:D Thanks for stopping by, you Salty Tennos.

[stormsasuke180]

Ash's bladestorm isn't that bad. Just activate it as a toggle. Play the mission normally. If you mark an enemy and kill it afterwards, you get your energy back. You even get to keep your energy regen as it isn't a toggle abilility. When a teamate is downed or you want to regen your shields, press 4 as a panic button. Don't try to use bladestorm the way it used to be. It used to be press 4 to kill a lot of enemies. Pretend that ability never existed. Otherwise, you will try to press 4, mark as many enemies as possible, and then press 4 again which is obviously not going to be effective. It's a rework. Don't try to emulate the old bladestorm as close as you can. 

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, stormsasuke180 said:

Ash's bladestorm isn't that bad. Just activate it as a toggle. Play the mission normally. If you mark an enemy and kill it afterwards, you get your energy back. You even get to keep your energy regen as it isn't a toggle abilility. When a teamate is downed or you want to regen your shields, press 4 as a panic button. Don't try to use bladestorm the way it used to be. It used to be press 4 to kill a lot of enemies. Pretend that ability never existed. Otherwise, you will try to press 4, mark as many enemies as possible, and then press 4 again which is obviously not going to be effective. It's a rework. Don't try to emulate the old bladestorm as close as you can. 

Very well. Then explain what IS it's function.

Killing single powerful enemies? Nope, that's what Teleport is for, and it's actually better, even without the augment.

Killing Small groups of enemies? Any weapon can do it better, and melee weapons in particular benefit from Smoke Screen's melee damage multiplier to make it even easier.

Is it better or more effficient than the two previous things mentioned? Nope, it takes nearly as much time as using any combination of the above mentioned, except it costs so much energy you will run dry before anihilating a wave of enemies you could have eliminated in 2/3rds of the time for a fraction of the energy.

Getting protection? Nope, Invisibility from Smoke Screen is far superior, specially when you can still  move while in SS and take cover, while BS leaves you wherever you were when you initiated it, on a 1s recovery animation that in high levels guarantees you are dead.

And you know what's better than playing normally with Energy Sink Mode active? Playing normally while never having Energy Sink Mode active!

 

The ability simply doesn't work. It serves no function other than draining stupid amounts of energy and displaying cool-looking assassinations that you may not even see because you will likely use smoke screen to make the stupid cost a tiny bit less stupid, which means you only see enemies getting humped by a blob of smoke.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Nazrethim

[stormsasuke180]

The function is simple. You can activate it and keep it on. Just play normally. Ash's abilities don't use up that much energy. You can use his other abilities, have bladestorm active, and still have plenty of energy. You're low on shields, a teamate is down, and there is a lot of enemies, just press 4. Keeping it toggled and playing normally. Then press 4 when needed. I find it way more enjoyable than the previous bladestorm. It doesn't even drain that much energy in my experience.

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, stormsasuke180 said:

The function is simple. You can activate it and keep it on. Just play normally.

Which is the same thing as not having it active.

Quote

Ash's abilities don't use up that much energy.

Smoke Screen, Teleport and Shuriken don't use up much energy. Failstorm uses more energy than the frame has capacity for.

Quote

You can use his other abilities, have bladestorm active, and still have plenty of energy.

Only on max efficiency, with Zenurik, Rage and Energize.

Quote

You're low on shields, a teamate is down, and there is a lot of enemies, just press 4.

And then what? Wait for your teamate to bleed out, the target/hostage die, or just to stall for a few seconds your inevitable demise?

Quote

Keeping it toggled and playing normally. Then press 4 when needed. I find it way more enjoyable than the previous bladestorm. It doesn't even drain that much energy in my experience.

Use him at default Efficiency. THEN come back and say it doesn't drain energy.

 

And you still haven't answerred: What is Blade Storm's function that can't be covered by his other abilities? SS and TP are better at killin and SS is much better as a survival ability.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Nazrethim

[stormsasuke180]

Smoke screen doesn't prevent you from taking damage. If you are in the way of gunfire, you still get hit. If you activate bladestorm though, you get plenty of time to regen your shields. I don't really see how teleport is better at killing. I can see smoke screen being better depending the circumstances but you can still get hit if you are using smoke screen. I also use Ash with default efficiency. It really isn't that bad. You get energy back from killing your targets. If I use (Prime) Flow with effiency mods though, my energy would probably stay full for pretty much the whole mission.

TL:DR

You can get hit while in smokescreen while attacking your enemies. You don't get hit when in bladestorm. This allows you to clear the room without taking much damage.

[Doomsknightmare]

Poor Ash. Seems they hit his Blade Storm a bit too hard.

[Nazrethim]

7 hours ago, stormsasuke180 said:

Smoke screen doesn't prevent you from taking damage. If you are in the way of gunfire, you still get hit. If you activate bladestorm though, you get plenty of time to regen your shields. I don't really see how teleport is better at killing. I can see smoke screen being better depending the circumstances but you can still get hit if you are using smoke screen. I also use Ash with default efficiency. It really isn't that bad. You get energy back from killing your targets. If I use (Prime) Flow with effiency mods though, my energy would probably stay full for pretty much the whole mission.

TL:DR

You can get hit while in smokescreen while attacking your enemies. You don't get hit when in bladestorm. This allows you to clear the room without taking much damage.

Enemies will fire to where Ash was last seen, but if you, y'know, move, you are pretty much safe. Plus you can use it to regen your shields (which are worthless outside of reallly low level content) and take cover. BS leaves you in a recovery animation and lasts way longer than SS, animation that WILL leave you open to gunfire and probably death at high levels.

Each BS animation takes 1.5s on most targets, depending on melee weapon, a finisher animation takes just that. Primed Fury working on both, and weapons actually being affected by Berserker are faster too. Teleport uses up 30 energy, which is double what each BS mark costs, but it scales better because your melee will keep oneshoting targets well after BS stops killing. And if you add Fatal Teleport you get 15 energy refund, reducing TP cost to that of a single BS mark, while being more powerful than a single BS attack!

There are a bunch of morons that think BS is for dispatching high priority targets and not for masses of grunts, except TP is better at that. BS attacks targets one by one, which means using TP with the augment is just as effective. For groups of enemies, SS+good melee are far superior, because why use 225 emergy on 15 enemies when a cheap 35 SS can do the job just as well?

Wanna do the math? I can prove mathematically that BS cost is flat out broken, and therefore forces players to use broken infinite energy sources just to do...what his other abilities do without requiring said broken infinite energy sources.

No matter how you try to handwave it, BS is currently The worst offensive ultimate in the game, not even it's strong damage saves it from the sh*t pit, because it's problems are mechanical in nature.

Slow to execute, outperformed by a single target assassination and a frickin defensive ability, ridiculously expensive and completely uninteractive.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Nazrethim

[stormsasuke180]

Here is the thing. You are trying to use Bladestorm just as an offensive ability and saying it's useless because his other abilities do it better. That's not the point of Bladestorm. You use it along with his other abilities. Smoke screen is good. Smoke screen plus Bladestorm is even better. Teleport augment refunding part of the energy used? Here is what I do. I have full energy? Mark a target. Now my energy isn't full and I can collect more energy. This allows me to use my other abilities more often. Bladestorm can be used to expand your max energy in a way as well. I'm not going to lie though and the animation is way too slow. What I do is toggle Bladestorm at the start of the mission and just play normally. I'll usually get full energy from orbs in a minute or two. Even when I have a lot of enemies marked, I usually have plenty of energy. Most of the time, I can activate the cutscene portion of Bladestorm and still end with nearly full energy. Plus the added invincibility helps a lot. With SS, enemies can still hit me if I am near a teamate. I'm not going to disagree that the cutscene portion of Bladestorm can use some work though.

[kaiser1794]

I have been playing my ash nowadays since getting his deluxe skin, and I must say that bladestorm is the least skill that I use as ash, simply because of the targeting system, and what it does for such an energy cost.

My issue with it is first, the way of targeting is that you have to scan 360 degrees for you to get enemies that are immediately in LOS. This makes targeting smaller units such as ospreys and shielded grineers as well as pesky mini robots a lot harder (I use bladestorm BECAUSE i don't want to deal with the little ones) over the big units such as Bombards, Heavy gunners, Ancients, and those red corpus units.

Secondly, Bladestorm takes up way too much energy in the low to mid levels, that actually scales quite well (energy value) until the late endgame where the damage to energy value pays itself. If you Bladestorm a lvl 30, it will die in say... half a mark's damage. But if you Bladestorm a lvl 50, it will take one and a half full mark's damage to kill him and thus wasting energy on the second mark's half. But when you get into lvl150+, it takes more than 3 marks' damage to kill him. The energy value for each mark will then pay itself in it's full damage and potential.

My suggestion is to integrate his targeting system into his one. His one will now be an aoe shuriken throw that expands outward in a cone below him (If on the ground, he will throw around him in a smaller radius... think Smoke's augment AOE). What this will do is it will only target enemies that are hit, but the amount of shurikens will be tied with range. After that, the death mark will stay for a duration and it will be tied with duration. My idea is to get players to jump as high, so out of LOS enemies can be marked but the spaces between each mark will be wide and far. Mod for more range and more shurikens can be thrown, thus the disparity between marks will be less. This solves his first issue for not marking smaller enemies and he can now easily mark more enemies, if the player desires so.

The second issue is more technical and honestly, I am not sure how to solve this. My idea was to make it tied with the amount of marks. The more marks you have, the less the energy you need. This will encourage players to jump up and cast his one more. The animations, for me, is okay. But if I were to tweak it, make it that instead of zooming into each mark, zoom the camera out at an angle and capture the entire bloodbath in such a way that players can feel the frame is teleporting. Say, you mark an entire room. You press 4, and the camera zooms out to a high corner and now you can see Ash teleporting here and there, killing. 

These are just suggestions. I would love if people can improve on it and maybe DE will change Bladestorm once again?

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, kaiser1794 said:

 

Secondly, Bladestorm takes up way too much energy in the low to mid levels, that actually scales quite well (energy value) until the late endgame where the damage to energy value pays itself. If you Bladestorm a lvl 30, it will die in say... half a mark's damage. But if you Bladestorm a lvl 50, it will take one and a half full mark's damage to kill him and thus wasting energy on the second mark's half. But when you get into lvl150+, it takes more than 3 marks' damage to kill him. The energy value for each mark will then pay itself in it's full damage and potential.

 

Except by that point Fatal Teleport does it way better, as it's only 15 energy and you likely oneshot everything with a well modded, combo powered, melee weapon (or a Dagger with Covert Lethality). BS simply doesn't work at any point in the lvl scaling. And even if it did, the game is balanced around Starchart levels, not endurance levels (hence why enemy scaling is so broken, it's there to force players out of missions) so balancing the ability around endurance levels is pointless, as well as is doing it around specific setups (like mod combinations, specially if it involves corrupted mods which are supposed to be optional).

 

4 hours ago, stormsasuke180 said:

-snip-

From the ability description:

Blade Storm
Ash goes on a rampage, teleporting to and destroying nearby enemies.

-

Ash instantly enters a state of intense focus as he searches for targets to assassinate

--

I think it's great you found a defensive (if arguable, as it only works if your Smoke Screen lasts longer than the cutscene, which puts you either on full duration or marking less than 4 enemies at any given time) function to BS, but that is NOT it's function. It's supposed function is to anihilate enemy groups, something at which the ability s*cks because of a combination of excesive cost, slow to set up, slow to execute and slow to recover (leaving you exposed to the survivors, which spawned while you were stuck in animation) and his single target assassination ability (Teleport) and his freakin defensive ability (Smoke Screen) having better single and mass kill potential at any level of content.

[NathanNarwhal]

Just bring back his old ability! He used to be my favorite frame until they changed his ability!

[Nazrethim]

32 minutes ago, NathanNarwhal said:

Just bring back his old ability! He used to be my favorite frame until they changed his ability!

Ah.. no. That wouldn't work. Old Blade Storm is better than Current Blade Storm, but both share the "Terrible Design" tag on them.

What we need is a brand new Blade Storm that solves the problems of both old and current. Right now BS is as outdated as Super Jump was for Excalibur.

[Torrempesta]

Ok, hear me out for a second guys.

Bladestorm: 0 cost activation; holding your 4 button will charge up 1/2/3 stacks per second. For every stack charged Ash will spawn a clone. Each clone consume 10 power per second (affected by Efficiency). During this time the clones will scatter around Ash and they will perform attacks for 250 Slash damage, crit 10%, status 25%, all stats are influenced by Power Strength and Melee mods (mind his passive...).
Clones are invulnerable, but each of them will attack only every 4 seconds (influenced by attack speed, dunno the proportion, not too high considering that with 3 Clones you attack 3 times every 4 seconds, let's say with an efficiency of 25%, which means that for every 10% point of attack speed their attack frequency is reduces by 2,5%).

Clones will prefer to attack enemies in this order:
1- proned and blinded
2- affected by any status chance or Nova and Rhino ultimates
3- not affected enemies

Again, change Ash Prime max power from 100 to 150, remove his Armor and Shield buffs.
 

It's OP, you don't wait for the cinematic to end and, come on, you can't go AFK... your Smoke Screen doesn't last forever.
Hell, even Loki can't go AFK! Maybe a good hidden and protected Equinox could.

And remember that Ash still is an assassin WF. He needs to have damages... and frankly he still has them, the problem is that you can't deal damage while playing with others.
Equinox, Ember, Mesa, Saryn can kill things behind walls!
Then there is Excalibur, Volt, Loki, who are fast or have quite a lot of range.

Ash needs to be competitive... I haven't ever even liked him! I always thought he was boring, but he did not affect my gameplay in any way, I really can't understand his debuff.
That's why a mechanic like this, IMO, would be good for him.

 

EDIT: this way you could even use Madurai instead of Naramon or Zenurik. +30% Slash damages... not bad uh?

Edited August 20, 2017 by Torrempesta

[Nazrethim]

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Ok, hear me out for a second guys.

Bladestorm: 0 cost activation;

Already a thing, zero activation and draining on mark.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

holding your 4 button will charge up 1/2/3 stacks per second. For every stack charged Ash will spawn a clone.

So you need 3s to start doing something.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Each clone consume 10 power per second (affected by Efficiency).

Ability cost will always be affected by Effi, but since Effi is a broken stat in itself (scales well beyond what the other power stats do) balancing around it is a big no-no. 10 power per second seems reasonable though, provided is constant and not affected by number of enemies or stacks.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

During this time the clones will scatter around Ash and they will perform attacks for 250 Slash damage, crit 10%, status 25%, all stats are influenced by Power Strength and Melee mods (mind his passive...).

Current one deals 2000 damage, has guaranteed Slash procs (one of the strongest procs in the game) and crit multiplier you don't mention so let's assume it's the default 1.5x. Even accounting for PPP and Spoiled Strike that brings the damage to ~900 damage, ~1300 if it crits (with only 10% chance). So you basically need +70% Power Strength just to get to current BS base damage. That's a straight nerf right there, specially considering it has a wind-up timer.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Clones are invulnerable, but each of them will attack only every 4 seconds (influenced by attack speed, dunno the proportion, not too high considering that with 3 Clones you attack 3 times every 4 seconds, let's say with an efficiency of 25%, which means that for every 10% point of attack speed their attack frequency is reduces by 2,5%).

4s is awfully slow for an AoE attack, specially with such low damage output. Again, discard Efficiency, and any other power stat, the ability should work at default values.

If clones are affected by attack speed then I will do the math for you with a 9/10 Primed Fury (+50%) as an example:

+50% Attack Speed = -33% Attack Time

or one attack every ~2,6 seconds. You would need around +200% Attack Speed just to make it sort of viable in any useful scenario.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Clones will prefer to attack enemies in this order:
1- proned and blinded
2- affected by any status chance or Nova and Rhino ultimates
3- not affected enemies

This priority system is completely unnecesary, specially considering that already CC'ed enemies don't need ot be killed as fast as not-CC'ed enemies.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Again, change Ash Prime max power from 100 to 150, remove his Armor and Shield buffs.
 

His max power at rank 30 is already 150 which means you didn't even bother to check the warframe stats. The Armor and Shield buffs are actually good as they are, he is not the tankiest frame but he isn't a squishy one either, and remember that Ash isn't a squishy ninja, it's a Warrior Ninja, hence why his stats are so good  (did you know that previous to Inaros and Nidus showing up, he was the frame with the biggest health pool in the game?)

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

It's OP, you don't wait for the cinematic to end and, come on, you can't go AFK... your Smoke Screen doesn't last forever.

It isn't, it's actually underpowered and weaker than current BS (which is the weakest the ability has been since closed beta), and it still doesn't make it interactive, it's world on bladestorm just in a weaker state that renders it practically pointless. And you CAN go AFK, because the clones do all the work while you do nothing at all as it's a radius.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Hell, even Loki can't go AFK! Maybe a good hidden and protected Equinox could.

 

And that's where you fail, you compare Loki (100% utility squishy frame) with Ash (a warrior damage dealing frame) or Equinox (a hybrid jack-of-all-trades frame)

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

And remember that Ash still is an assassin WF. He needs to have damages... and frankly he still has them, the problem is that you can't deal damage while playing with others.

Because DE decided to overnerf instead of rework the ability. Frankly they didn't even know what to do, as their first idea was the dumbest ever (world on blade storm) and the idea they went with being the second dumbest idea ever (marking mode)

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Equinox, Ember, Mesa, Saryn can kill things behind walls!
Then there is Excalibur, Volt, Loki, who are fast or have quite a lot of range.

Quite funny thing, Excalibur is the closest to Ash from that list. Both are Warrior frames, both have gap closer attacks (teleport and slash dash), both have abilities to open enemies to finishers, both have radial defensive abilities (blind and arguably SS) and both have their own melee weapons to attack (Exalted Blade and Ethereal Wristblades) and Excalibur had a useless outdated ability (Super Jump) that was scrapped and replaced, whereas DE refused to scrap Ash's outdated ability (BS). And the same way as Excalibur, Ash's easiest path to actually fix him is a Stance Ultimate.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Ash needs to be competitive... I haven't ever even liked him! I always thought he was boring, but he did not affect my gameplay in any way, I really can't understand his debuff.

Indeed he needs. He was nerfed because "some people" (read: most of the frame's users) maxed a totally not broken stat (that happens to affect ability cost or something) to bladespam their way trough all content, but instead of scr*wing those players by, I don't know, nerfing that broken stat to be in line with the other 3, they decided to overnerf the frame, scr*wing everyone who didn't run with that stat nor bladespammed at all.

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

That's why a mechanic like this, IMO, would be good for him.

Not really, as I pointed out it's critical flaws.

Basically this: If it needs any power stat or weapon stat stacked to work, then it doesnt and it's badly designed

16 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

EDIT: this way you could even use Madurai instead of Naramon or Zenurik. +30% Slash damages... not bad uh?

No. Madurai is too weak as those values work like the 30% mods do, increasing 30% of that specific damage amount rather than the complete base damage. Naramon and Zenurik are downright broken and make the game stupidly easy by providing permanent invisibility and infinite energy.

Also, Focus schools shouldn't be considered for the ability balance either.

Pretty much the frame must work on it's own, other stuff (mods, arcanes, temporary buffs, focus schools) must be extras and power ups, not crutches required to even get the thing moving.

[Lakyus]

On 04/08/2017 at 6:07 PM, True_Naeblis said:

Press 4 to set BS for marking

Press 4 again to activate

Press 4 a third time to end the cinematic and go back to fighting, or just outright allow an option to toggle it on/off somewhere in the menu. It gets old having to watch it over and over and over, and it would be a lot more lively seeing clones teleport around and work rather than what we currently have.

I'd rather go like this:

1. Press 4 to set BS for marking (only one mark per target). Marking is a circle like Mesa's Peacemaker instead of a crosshair mouseover. The limit of targets is the limit of clones you can make (scales with Power Strength?) +1 (Ash himself).
2. Press 4 again to start jumping around attacking WITH YOUR CLONES AT THE SAME TIME. So every target gets attacked once and you can actually see your clones killing others as well.
3. Damage is ditched over time instead of almost instantly. If Ash finishes killing his target, Bladestorm ends.
4. Press 4 while Bladestorm is going on to cancel it.

[Torrempesta]

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

So you need 3s to start doing something.

Quote

Better than aiming for 10 seconds for nothing because Equinox cleared the room.

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

Current one deals 2000 damage, has guaranteed Slash procs (one of the strongest procs in the game) and crit multiplier you don't mention so let's assume it's the default 1.5x. Even accounting for PPP and Spoiled Strike that brings the damage to ~900 damage, ~1300 if it crits (with only 10% chance). So you basically need +70% Power Strength just to get to current BS base damage. That's a straight nerf right there, specially considering it has a wind-up timer.

If only you waited before writing...

 

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

His max power at rank 30 is already 150 which means you didn't even bother to check the warframe stats. The Armor and Shield buffs are actually good as they are, he is not the tankiest frame but he isn't a squishy one either, and remember that Ash isn't a squishy ninja, it's a Warrior Ninja, hence why his stats are so good  (did you know that previous to Inaros and Nidus showing up, he was the frame with the biggest health pool in the game?)

Quote

Maybe I intended at rank 0... Gosh, you sound like one of those neckbeard, know it all, C***ish "acthually" polemic people who NEED and WANT to sound full of reasoning but fail miserably.

 

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

This priority system is completely unnecesary

Multiplier for finisher, those would be melee attacks... congratulation on sounding completely oblivious.

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

Not really, as I pointed out it's critical flaws.

 

You pointed nothing... You are just here to demolish everything anybody says, without contributing at all. IDK why you are still here honestly.

 

On 21/8/2017 at 0:04 AM, Nazrethim said:

No. Madurai is too weak as those values work like the 30% mods do, increasing 30% of that specific damage amount rather than the complete base damage. Naramon and Zenurik are downright broken and make the game stupidly easy by providing permanent invisibility and infinite energy.

But with more power on Ash prime Zenurik would be useless and Naramon unusable because the Clones crits wouldn't proc the invisibility.
Madurai on other hand...

 

Again, you failed to actually telling me why this is bad, while saying that the current Ash is bad.
So, everything is bad, but, again, you brought us nothing.
A 250 base melee dmg would imply a +150% bonus on Power Strength only, than consider all the mods for Melee Base Damage, Slash damage and Crit Damage.
Did you check Mesa? You like Mesa damages right?
Her base damage on Regulator is lower than this... and doesn't get a bonus from Impact mods (if I recall correctly). With this version of Bladestorm you would basically have a mobile Mesa who can perform finisher with her (his) ultimate and insta-kills with Covert Lethality.

Oh but yes, you are going to counter argument me with "Mesa has a hit frequency much higher with Regulator!1!" yes, standing still. Ash wouldn't need to.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Torrempesta

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

On 8/20/2017 at 5:16 PM, Torrempesta said:

Ok, hear me out for a second guys.

Bladestorm: 0 cost activation; holding your 4 button will charge up 1/2/3 stacks per second. For every stack charged Ash will spawn a clone. Each clone consume 10 power per second (affected by Efficiency). During this time the clones will scatter around Ash and they will perform attacks for 250 Slash damage, crit 10%, status 25%, all stats are influenced by Power Strength and Melee mods (mind his passive...).
Clones are invulnerable, but each of them will attack only every 4 seconds (influenced by attack speed, dunno the proportion, not too high considering that with 3 Clones you attack 3 times every 4 seconds, let's say with an efficiency of 25%, which means that for every 10% point of attack speed their attack frequency is reduces by 2,5%).

so ash is spawning a clone/Spector that will only attack once and wait 4 seconds again to attack again even tho he already has to wait a couple of seconds to charge his ability? That sounds slow.

Also I agree with @Nazrethim the priority system will probably be unnecessary, I can already see the clones moving past heavy units just to go for a prone canon fodder enemy because of this.

On 8/20/2017 at 5:16 PM, Torrempesta said:

Again, change Ash Prime max power from 100 to 150, remove his Armor and Shield buffs

This change definitely doesn't justify the ehp nerfs towards ash PRIME, especially since bladestorm no longer grants you invulnerability.

 

On 8/20/2017 at 5:16 PM, Torrempesta said:

And remember that Ash still is an assassin WF. He needs to have damages... and frankly he still has them, the problem is that you can't deal damage while playing with others.
Equinox, Ember, Mesa, Saryn can kill things behind walls!
Then there is Excalibur, Volt, Loki, who are fast or have quite a lot of range.

Ash needs to be competitive... I haven't ever even liked him! I always thought he was boring, but he did not affect my gameplay in any way, I really can't understand his debuff.
That's why a mechanic like this, IMO, would be good for him.

This is the biggest problem I have right here. You say ash needs to have damage but he can literally do a crap ton of damage with ALL his abilities(he even has augments that increases his lethality). Also boring/fun is a subjective word, you may find his playstyle boring, but I have a absolute great time playing him.

Your trying too hard to make ash "compete" with like 5 different frames that serve and play completely differently from each other. If anything bladestorm should have some kind of hard CC to it, because ash already has like 3-4 other ways to kill his enemies due to his kit

Edited August 29, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Fallen_Echo]

Okay guys, how about this?

Ash rushes in the room presses 4 and the system auto targets everybody in the room with a predefined range.

This whole thing needs 1 sec to do after it finished targeting Ahs releases hordes of shadows flying into the targets dealing high damage.

Ash keeps his invincibility for 5 sec gaining 2 additional sec for each headshot and 5 for each kill. Invincibility ends when the skills duration ends.

[Nazrethim]

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Better than aiming for 10 seconds for nothing because Equinox cleared the room.

Yeah, but honestly I couldn't care less what Equinox can do, so long as Ash can do his damn job.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

If only you waited before writing...

I take an hour or so to consider my replies carefully (For simple stuff, complex replies require up to a week)

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Maybe I intended at rank 0... Gosh, you sound like one of those neckbeard, know it all, C***ish "acthually" polemic people who NEED and WANT to sound full of reasoning but fail miserably.

Lack of information on the main thread then, and my reasoning isn't at fault, as Ash is clearly a warrior ninja from the beginning, and I gave good reason for that

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Multiplier for finisher, those would be melee attacks... congratulation on sounding completely oblivious.

This ^ sentence makes no sense.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

You pointed nothing... You are just here to demolish everything anybody says, without contributing at all. IDK why you are still here honestly.

Pointing out critical flaws is a form of contribution, as it allows the poster to adress them. I only demolish ideas that are either dumb or terrible (or both) from a design standpoint. I am here because the reason we are stuck with current failstorm is because people gave sh*tty ideas that DE took and ran with, I'm not gonna that happen again, even if I have to make enemy half the forum by shotting down bad, flawed or incomplete Rework concepts left and right. Ash needs a Rework, and a good one that actually solves most (or hopefully all) of his issues.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

But with more power on Ash prime Zenurik would be useless and Naramon unusable because the Clones crits wouldn't proc the invisibility.
Madurai on other hand...

...would still be underpowered. And infinite energy and crit-based perma invis is still a thing.

My point is that balance shouldn't be around specific stats or focus schools.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

 

Again, you failed to actually telling me why this is bad, while saying that the current Ash is bad.
So, everything is bad, but, again, you brought us nothing.

I got sick of people calling me out as "self promoting" my ideas so I no longer bother. If you want I can give you the (now archived) thread and you can go see them yourself.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

A 250 base melee dmg would imply a +150% bonus on Power Strength only, than consider all the mods for Melee Base Damage, Slash damage and Crit Damage.
Did you check Mesa? You like Mesa damages right?
Her base damage on Regulator is lower than this... and doesn't get a bonus from Impact mods (if I recall correctly). With this version of Bladestorm you would basically have a mobile Mesa who can perform finisher with her (his) ultimate and insta-kills with Covert Lethality.

You didn't mention CL, and balancing the ability around that is also dumb as hell. Except this Ash wouldn't have to do anything as the clones would attack on their own.

Again, incomplete information, skewed balancing (if balancing at all) and a miriad of other stuff I already mentioned.

8 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Oh but yes, you are going to counter argument me with "Mesa has a hit frequency much higher with Regulator!1!" yes, standing still. Ash wouldn't need to.
 

No, he would just need to vaguely move out of harm's way and stay behind a corner while clones kill everything. So it's another take on World on Bladestorm, except clunkier than ever and weak to the point of nigh uselessness. You also didn't mention how does it work in Conclave, which is where Ash needs help the most (as he has NO offensive abilities there, Shuriken and BS being 100% useless)