Self reviving isn't good

[Mudfam]

29 minutes ago, mael9740 said:

Rest of arguments are given by the person who replied 3 hours before you. You are just taking the easy comment to approve you own oppinion there.

It's just skipping 20 useless seconds.

I think it perfectly illustrates the point, someone actually thinks winning no matter what is QoL. Trivialising the game completely is what it is. It's freaking preposterous.

First of all it's 15 seconds, and that was basically the only consequence for failure we had. Getting downed is now of no consequence at all because you can just pick yourself right up again. So just go ahead and be as reckless as you like, be a hallway hero and don't help your team, don't revive them, cos getting more kills than them is all that matters, right?

I honestly can't even begin to fathom how anyone could think this is a good idea. The game is already waaaaay too easy, let's just remove any and all penalties shall we? We've gone from only having 4 revives a day and reviving team mates being important to this. Getting downed was a big deal, now there's just no point in even trying to avoid it, and so much for team play. They might as well rename public to "4x Invincibility Solo".

[Vox_Preliator]

Meanwhile, as a Solo player, I've always been able to revive instantly.

Am I cheating when I do that, or otherwise abusing mechanics?  If not, how and why is that different from being able to manually burn a revive in a group?  If so, should Solo players have to wait fifteen seconds where absolutely nothing happens on non-defensive missions because... why exactly?  What would that add to the game?

As for "It makes the game too easy," has there really been multiple situations that occur often enough to be a concern, where you or a teammate have been downed and it was definitely that specific instance of downtime that caused the mission to fail and manually burning a revive would definitely have helped?  Because I can only see that happening if the rest of the team is actively going out of their way to be unhelpful and ignoring both objectives and incoming fire, or were entirely dependent on that downed person.

[Tsukinoki]

19 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

If so, should Solo players have to wait fifteen seconds where absolutely nothing happens on non-defensive missions because... why exactly?  What would that add to the game?

Well if you play Inaros then this already happens if you go down solo.
You spend 15 seconds sitting there and twiddling your thumbs and unable to even use your secondaries to shoot things, and his ability does crap damage at any levels beyond Earth so you won't be killing anything with it.

30 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Meanwhile, as a Solo player, I've always been able to revive instantly.

Am I cheating when I do that, or otherwise abusing mechanics?  If not, how and why is that different from being able to manually burn a revive in a group?

Good luck getting any of the opponents to the instant revive to provide a good answer to this.
I mean they claim that losing a massive chunk of affinity/focus "isn't a punishment" and that the change makes the game too easy when its always been an option for solo.  And since all of the sorties and other missions are soloable (I know, I've done it a majority of the time) being able to revive instantly in a team does nothing to decrease the difficulty of the missions.

Or they'll claim that it removes teamplay.
What teamplay?
In the majority of groups I've been in (and why I solo most missions) there was no teamplay before this change.
Majority of time there was no one rushing out to revive others.  There was no teamwork.  There was just a group of people rushing the objectives and not helping each other in any way or communicating or doing anything else.
The fact is that the bleedout timer did not encourage players to help each other or stick near each other or work as a team.

[Mudfam]

35 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

I mean they claim that losing a massive chunk of affinity/focus "isn't a punishment" and that the change makes the game too easy when its always been an option for solo.  And since all of the sorties and other missions are soloable (I know, I've done it a majority of the time) being able to revive instantly in a team does nothing to decrease the difficulty of the missions.

Affinity and focus? Sorry, what..?!

I'm assuming from your post count that you're among the 90% of the stable player base who can't even imagine what it's like to care even just a little about those things. Notice how any and all affinity boosters are only ever met with groans of disappointment? Not to mention you'll probably make back that tiny bit you lost in the time you weren't bleeding out. And if we're really talking about affinity then hallway heroes are costing you magnitudes more.

Being able to revive instantly DOES make things easier. People bleeding out and not being able to complete objectives was the ONLY thing that still presented any sort of possibility of failure in the game. Denying this is just being openly false. I know it, you know it, we all bloody know it.

 

36 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Or they'll claim that it removes teamplay.

What teamplay?
In the majority of groups I've been in (and why I solo most missions) there was no teamplay before this change.
Majority of time there was no one rushing out to revive others.  There was no teamwork.  There was just a group of people rushing the objectives and not helping each other in any way or communicating or doing anything else.
The fact is that the bleedout timer did not encourage players to help each other or stick near each other or work as a team.

Right, teamplay is already bad, so might as well make it even worse. Absolutely amazing argument. I am simply awed by the sheer cleverness of it. It's not just a matter if this one change, it's about the direction the game is heading it, and this clearly is the wrong one. If there already wasn't enough reason for some people to cooperate before then this is the way to go, right? If the game was already too easy then let's just make winning 100% guaranteed, always, no matter what.

This is the kind of crap that has been gradually and systematically ruining games until there's nothing left.

[Zyneris]

I was actually surprised with this change.

That being said I'm on the fence about it. On one hand I think it does encourage those who ignore their teammates to ignore them more (I'm not talking about leaving monkeys behind, I'm talking actually ignoring a teammate who went down try to get an objective). On the other hand, I like it because it allows the player to revive themselves and not jeopardize their teammates (this may be a small number of players though). I personally use self revive in the mentioned instances. If I know I made a mistake, I don't expect my team to help me. I wait a second or two to make sure they aren't running to me, and then revive. 

If they removed the feature tomorrow, I wouldn't be mad. If they keep the feature, I won't be mad. 50/50 for me. Maybe I just haven't been in enough groups to really know the effects.

[Tsukinoki]

33 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

Affinity and focus? Sorry, what..?!

I'm assuming from your post count that you're among the 90% of the stable player base who can't even imagine what it's like to care even just a little about those things. Notice how any and all affinity boosters are only ever met with groans of disappointment? Not to mention you'll probably make back that tiny bit you lost in the time you weren't bleeding out. And if we're really talking about affinity then hallway heroes are costing you magnitudes more.

I am actually constantly leveling, re-levling, and farming focus so I do care about affinity.
Just because I post on the forums doesn't mean that I'm not putting forma on gear or trying to max out a focus tree because of lack of other things to do.

And good luck getting back 5-7k focus in 20 seconds when you go down and have to use a revive in a long endless mission.  Takes a decent bit longer than that depending on the mission.

37 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

Being able to revive instantly DOES make things easier. People bleeding out and not being able to complete objectives was the ONLY thing that still presented any sort of possibility of failure in the game. Denying this is just being openly false. I know it, you know it, we all bloody know it.

So basically playing solo is abusing the revive mechanic according to you?  Since solo players (outside of Inaros) don't have to bleed out and are immediately back on their feet?

Also it only takes one person to complete objectives in warframe (outside of raids).  
In fact in multiplayer mission the last person in the squad to die immediately gets to use a revive and doesn't enter bleedout.
In fact they get up faster as using a self revive takes 3 seconds to respawn.  Meanwhile the last person in the squad to go down when everyone else is down immediately pops back up upon hitting the revive button with no time lost.

So is the last person to go down in a team mission abusing the revive mechanic to make the game easier?
If the entire team being down and bleeding out at the same time was "the only possibility of failure in the game" then that never happened in the first place as there will always be at least one team member up and not bleeding out.

[Rakiss]

Perhaps a compromise would be having revives scaled to mission type.

Sabotage, exterminate, spy and capture get 1.
Mobile defence and assassination get 2.
Infinites get 2 to start and an extra 1 every 4 (8?) waves.

Alternatively, players have no revives and there's a pool of squad revives that doesn't change based on the number of players (though this would require enemy counts in less-than-full squads and solo to get bumped up to compensate.

[torint_man]

6 hours ago, Nirrel said:

You are wrong : It changes everything. Until now you could potentially fail the mission because you got killed, so you had to be more careful and if you failed than you learned something. Consider just defence, mobile defence, rescue, spy missions. Getting killed in those can lead to failure. So quick revive as it is take away challange and promotes reckless behavior and demote proper teamplay, where getting up an ally and as quicly as possible did rapresented a challange and had significance.

On the other hand I do not see all this negative consequence to use up a couple of revives out of 4. I don't see any at all in fact.  I can't even remember the last time that I saw somebody use up all their revives not even total noobs, if not first timers in JV without an injectore.

Qiuck revives as they are implemented right now are very bad for the gameplay. Take away teamplay, challage and using it have no real consequences for the player.

I still disagree. Objectives in warframe are nearly impossible to lose. One person is all it takes to basically guarantee the objective will be defended, given they have actual weapons or CC, bar ridiculously high levels in defense missions. You are creating a narrative based off of pure projection. Nobody actually fails defensive missions, assuming that there are competent players. Your narrative is only true if you assume ALL players on the team are incompetent.

Edited August 9, 2017 by torint_man

[Mudfam]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

I am actually constantly leveling, re-levling, and farming focus so I do care about affinity.
Just because I post on the forums doesn't mean that I'm not putting forma on gear or trying to max out a focus tree because of lack of other things to do.

Well, I already have more forma than I need on anything I might ever want to forma, and I have huge amounts of unspent focus that I'm just accumulating for no reason. This without ever having farmed affinity or used boosters. I assumed most people are in the same situation unless they started playing fairly recently.

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

So basically playing solo is abusing the revive mechanic according to you?  Since solo players (outside of Inaros) don't have to bleed out and are immediately back on their feet?

Also it only takes one person to complete objectives in warframe (outside of raids).  
In fact in multiplayer mission the last person in the squad to die immediately gets to use a revive and doesn't enter bleedout.
In fact they get up faster as using a self revive takes 3 seconds to respawn.  Meanwhile the last person in the squad to go down when everyone else is down immediately pops back up upon hitting the revive button with no time lost.

So is the last person to go down in a team mission abusing the revive mechanic to make the game easier?
If the entire team being down and bleeding out at the same time was "the only possibility of failure in the game" then that never happened in the first place as there will always be at least one team member up and not bleeding out.

And? Do you have a point to make, or do you just want to list inconsistencies in the revive system? It wasn't designed around revives being virtually limitless. We used to have 4 revives per day, now there's 4 to 6 per capture lol. The revive system was only meaningful in that context. And now we went from easy mode to might as well semi-AFK mode.

So the current system is arguably "abusable" in Solo mode. I don't know about you but I consider this to be a multiplayer co-op game and that's how I play it. More often than not other players will just make things more difficult, make a mess of things, but it's more fun.

If it actually happens that 3/4 people are bleeding out then perhaps 1 person is not enough to complete the objective, not to mention they have 3 people to revive. Not sure what game you've been playing but in the Warframe I play people almost always revived eachother.

I'm not saying things were notably better before, but I still think this change is heading in the wrong direction, promoting things that are already bad. I personally wish we still had the old revive limit, or really anything to occasionally bring just a little hint of challenge to the game.

[Nirrel]

52 minutes ago, torint_man said:

I still disagree. Objectives in warframe are nearly impossible to lose. One person is all it takes to basically guarantee the objective will be defended, given they have actual weapons or CC, bar ridiculously high levels in defense missions. You are creating a narrative based off of pure projection. Nobody actually fails defensive missions, assuming that there are competent players. Your narrative is only true if you assume ALL players on the team are incompetent.

In whatever scenario is true but it is still true not a pure projection of mine.

That's just one example, but I could have just talk about my own sortie spy experience in wich one guy did go down in the vault and we failed because we could not get there in time while he bled out. Using quickrevive we would not have failed and that's a fact as well.

Whatever are the circumstances doesn't matter, how competent the group is doesn't matter, what kind of mission doesn't matter either (defence, spy, mobile defence, rescue). This system just objectively makes not failing easier (no matter how rare that can be), make teamplay even less important as it's already is, promotes reckless gameplay because has virtually no penalty for dying (10% affinity is really doesn't matter and it becomes irrilevant in the case you risk to propely fail the mission).

The worst part of it that ppl doesn't seem to relize how bad this is in the long run for the gameon a cooperative level.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Nirrel

[Rakiss]

10 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

That's just one example, but I could have just talk about my own sortie spy experience in wich one guy did go down in the vault and we failed because we could not get there in time while he bled out. Using quickrevive we would not have failed and that's a fact as well.

If he died in a spy vault then even with quick-revive he would have probably failed the vault. When alarms go off, more enemies spawn meaning that he'd be more likely to go down again, plus, if he managed to die in a spy vault he probably doesn't know spy vaults well enough for 15 extra seconds to make any difference.

Such is my experience with public spy anyway.

[torint_man]

38 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

That's just one example, but I could have just talk about my own sortie spy experience in wich one guy did go down in the vault and we failed because we could not get there in time while he bled out. Using quickrevive we would not have failed and that's a fact as well.

PUB sortie spy is a terrible example. It is optimally done solo. Also, IMO, I consider the bleedout timer to be a punishing and unfair consequence in that context. If you went solo and died, you could insta revive, but because your are in a PUB, you arbitrarily have 20 seconds where you can do nothing. Actually, now that I think about it, IMO, the bleedout timer as "consequence" in any context is punishing and arbitrary. If you go down solo, insta-revive, and if all other teammates are down, insta-revive. But, if you happen to have someone alive with you, ayy lmao, arbitrary timer where you can't do anything. 

Ultimately, I think that bleedout timer as consequence was a bad mechanic. You think it's a good mechanic. We have differing opinions, and let that be that. Further discussion will not lead to anyone convincing the other. As goes basically any other forum topic.

[Nirrel]

16 minutes ago, torint_man said:

PUB sortie spy is a terrible example. It is optimally done solo. Also, IMO, I consider the bleedout timer to be a punishing and unfair consequence in that context. If you went solo and died, you could insta revive, but because your are in a PUB, you arbitrarily have 20 seconds where you can do nothing. Actually, now that I think about it, IMO, the bleedout timer as "consequence" in any context is punishing and arbitrary. If you go down solo, insta-revive, and if all other teammates are down, insta-revive. But, if you happen to have someone alive with you, ayy lmao, arbitrary timer where you can't do anything. 

Ultimately, I think that bleedout timer as consequence was a bad mechanic. You think it's a good mechanic. We have differing opinions, and let that be that. Further discussion will not lead to anyone convincing the other. As goes basically any other forum topic.

Why no pub spy? We failed that time, but we had a laugh and restarted and everything did go well.

But you are right, we will never agree. For me a game where you have no consequences if you die is a bad game even if it would be easier for me. I do like challange in games, if there isn't any, there is no satisfaction to win either.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Nirrel

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

What changed and when?

Are you as a pc player referring to something in the future, or to the revive change that happened ages ago? 

And the revives are dumbing down the game? I think it had some impact on the community, specifically people wanting to die to get sentinels back, when the situation should be reversed, sentniels being easier to bring back than yourself....

But...how is this dumbing down the game but mass crowd contol isnt getting talked about here?

[Mudfam]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What changed and when?

Are you as a pc player referring to something in the future, or to the revive change that happened ages ago? 

And the revives are dumbing down the game? I think it had some impact on the community, specifically people wanting to die to get sentinels back, when the situation should be reversed, sentniels being easier to bring back than yourself....

Since the latest update on PC you can just revive yourself and keep going instead of bleeding out. For most missions this means there's absolutely zero consequences to being downed and no point in reviving teammates.

21 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

But...how is this dumbing down the game but mass crowd contol isnt getting talked about here?

Don't worry, it won't matter anymore when we get a "press X to complete mission" prompt. Seems like a good QoL change, what's the point in playing anyway? Might as well just skip to the rewards.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

7 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Since the latest update on PC you can just revive yourself and keep going instead of bleeding out. For most missions this means there's absolutely zero consequences to being downed and no point in reviving teammates.

Don't worry, it won't matter anymore when we get a "press X to complete mission" prompt. Seems like a good QoL change, what's the point in playing anyway? Might as well just skip to the rewards.

Aahhh.... 

I have nothing to say against.

Clarification: i have one thing to say against. If your concern is about the experience others will have while playing warframe, more so than the experience you yourself will have in warframe, then you are trying to control how other people play. And for those who wish to have a group of people who will play by their rules, the most often given advice is : form a squad.

Its bad advice. But being worried about what other people are doing is bad for your mental health.

-->Not sure where DE is trying to go with it, but with an even better revive system than the current 4 revives per game (revive 3.0 if you would) i would imagine the next course of action for them would be to throw balance to the wind and start making enemies over powered again....

This post seems legit to me.

(But was under the impression more revives were being added. Seems like the same old system, just allows you to do things faster, which would be nice in its own way.)

The only bad thing is if you race to revive someone and they troll you by simply reviving themselves. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[blackheartstar_pc]

4 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

The only bad thing is if you race to revive someone and they troll you by simply reviving themselves. 

More often than not playing yesterday afternoon this is exactly what happened when teammates went down. Can't say all of them were trolling but it is there. One less teamplay mechanic and it sucks.

[Nirrel]

16 hours ago, Rakiss said:

If he died in a spy vault then even with quick-revive he would have probably failed the vault. When alarms go off, more enemies spawn meaning that he'd be more likely to go down again, plus, if he managed to die in a spy vault he probably doesn't know spy vaults well enough for 15 extra seconds to make any difference.

Such is my experience with public spy anyway.

Dunno, you have to be a very big noob to do that. After you revive you have quite a respectable time of invincibility period. It's even enough to hack a console if you are good at hacking and if not It's more than enough to recast any ability that can help you. Mostly ppl takes specific frame for sortie spy just to be on the safe side, so immediately reviving and push a button doesn't require great skills to get out of a tight situation. The fact is that it can mean a difference in failing the mission or not whlie saying probably he would have gone down again anyway it's really just a supposition based on how some players can panic or not deal propely with it in certain situations.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Nirrel

[Akeiresh]

I have to agree with OP on this one - self-reviving is a terrible mechanic. In my own personal opinion, it takes out the consequence of making mistakes. There's actually a need to be careful and make sure you don't mess up the mission objective, depending on which type you're doing, either by not being seen, staying together with your teammates, or just by actually being effective with your frame's abilities. It gives you a reason to adjust accordingly to the mission type you're doing. Spy? Don't get seen. Mobile defense/defense? Just stay next to the objective. Survival? Moving around is a thing. Even so, it's better to stay near others because of affinity/drops. Especially so if you're playing Nekros.

Before somebody starts bringing up the entire thing of ''oh so you don't even want revives to be a thing'' or ''so at this point why not just lose your warframe etc etc'', that's not the point. Nobody is arguing for that. I don't mind having revives as a mechanic in the game. People are arguing about having a balance in a mechanic that's supposed to punish you for making a mistake, be it rushing into enemies or not staying together with your teammates to protect the objective. And even then, this is going to end up with people blasting through their revives without giving it too much thought at all. I'd dare to say that this change in mechanic is a clear example of people not being patient to wait a couple of seconds.

On top of that, well, what's the point of reviving people at this point? Most are just going to self-revive, even if they're within your reach. I actually enjoyed the few seconds I had while I was downed to think over the mistake I made, assess the situation, whether I should start rushing to extraction after spending a revive, or try to at least help my team by shooting off an enemy or two if I had a decent secondary on hand. 

At the very least I'd like for DE to change it so that you couldn't use quick-revives in Sorties. At the very least that'd be nice.

Spoiler

and the bugs. because I'm sure that it's not intentional to be able to quick-revive out of getting a G3 bolt. Or be able to somehow revive another person that's 10-15 meters away when I fail to catch the first one in time, but in enough time to trigger a revive animation.

It just seems like such a tiny change, but something tells me that it may just end up paving way for more ''Quality of Life'' changes like these, and not for good ones either.

[ikkabotz]

On 8/8/2017 at 9:12 AM, KIREEK said:

In short i believe DE isn't teaching the players to be better and is instead dumbing down the game for the players 

This, all over the place. .Don't keep your hopes up. I hardly play at all anymore. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by komoriblues

[Shockwave-]

On 8/8/2017 at 0:21 PM, mael9740 said:

This is only a QoL change. Look at the Kuva Rescue sortie we got.

It's easy to die, but you have to wait 15 seconds before respawning, and the execution timer can run out while doing that.

It's only one example, there are so many other. Being downed far away, etc...

Which is EXACTLY why the old system shoudl be brought back. Now you go into a spy vault and die, you don't have to wait, You insta-revive and keep going, you do the rescue cells and die, again, no waiting, insta-revive and succeed. There is now no skill to WF. You can die 4 times per mission and you can instant revive so you lose no time. You are a god who can't fail at any of those missions due to death any more.

Waiting the 15 seconds was the PENALTY for dying, for screwing up. If you don't play well you can get downed, and yes  you have to wait and yes that could cause you to fail. The game is heading to candy-crush and fruit ninja levels of ease.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Shockwave-

[SethCypher]

The self revive option doesn't really change anything.

I guess people who purposely want to die and revive don't have to wait 15 seconds now for it to happen. But from what I'm experiencing, people still wait during the Bleedout period for others to revive them.

Edited August 16, 2017 by SethCypher

[Tsukinoki]

18 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Which is EXACTLY why the old system shoudl be brought back.

One thing I have yet to see from opponents of the change:
What about solo players in the "old" system?  Why weren't you complaining that solo players didn't have to sit there and bleed out for 15 seconds every time they went down and instead could immediately get back on their feet?

18 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Now you go into a spy vault and die, you don't have to wait, You insta-revive and keep going, you do the rescue cells and die, again, no waiting, insta-revive and succeed. There is now no skill to WF. You can die 4 times per mission and you can instant revive so you lose no time. You are a god who can't fail at any of those missions due to death any more.

So the multiplayer missions are now being treated the same as solo missions.
in fact solo players still have it easier as they don't have to wait 3 seconds like you do in multiplayer missions if you burn an instant revive.

Why weren't you complaining about how solo players can do all that?
And yet when its brought into group missions now you're all up in arms.

18 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Waiting the 15 seconds was the PENALTY for dying, for screwing up.

So why is it only a penalty in multiplayer missions and not solo missions?

For me the biggest reason this is a boon is that I can no longer essentially be held hostage by an Oberon that gives me a 1+ minute down time and refuses to revive me because "You aren't being targetted by the enemies, just kill them an we'll pick you up when the timer gets low!" and with absolutely nothing I could do.  Now I can at least get out of those situations.

[Yargami]

On 8/15/2017 at 6:53 PM, Shockwave- said:

Waiting the 15 seconds was the PENALTY for dying, for screwing up. If you don't play well you can get downed, and yes  you have to wait and yes that could cause you to fail.

   In my experience, having a 15 second timer on your death hasn't actually changed the gameplay of reckless players. I've been in plenty of matches where someone would charge into heavy crowds with a squishy or low level 'frame, die, revive 15 seconds later, and immediately charge back in and go down again. 15 seconds of sitting there isn't actually a meaningful punishment. On the flipside, there have been plenty of cases where someone has gone down and just had to sit there with nothing to do in a mission type that isn't timer sensitive. The 15 second timer isn't a penalty in most missions types, it's just annoying. So maybe if you were saying that after rescue timers have been set off or vault timers set off, or maybe all the time in sorties you shouldn't have self-revives I could be indifferent about it. But that would mean that the revive system would get very inconsistent and not very intuitive.
   The other possibility would be having self-revive without bleeding out first cost more, but the problem with that still comes back to the Oberon problem: Hey, you have a jerk Oberon/party? Good, now you have to pay to enjoy the game as much.

On 8/15/2017 at 6:53 PM, Shockwave- said:

There is now no skill to WF.

The game is heading to candy-crush and fruit ninja levels of ease.

   I don't know what "Candy-Crush" and "Fruit Ninja" are (maybe we're just space-fruit ninjas?), but I think there is still plenty of skill in Warframe. If there were no skill involved then there wouldn't be a difference between those who charge into battle and die immediately and those of us who don't go down that often (I don't like to sound arrogant but it's true, I don't go down very often). In fact, if there were no skill in Warframe then people wouldn't be going down in the first place. Bad players and some new players (no offense to those new players, it can take a while to figure the game out) wouldn't go down any more frequently than the better players.
   I'm not gonna lie, I can see some light in some of the arguments against self-revive. However, they feel pretty weak to me considering that, outside of a few rare instances, the timer didn't affect the missions and it never actually taught more of a lesson than death would in general. What I see is a few people bringing up slightly reasonable points and wildly overreacting and blowing it out of proportion.

   Also, side note: I never knew I was cheating/abusing the system all these years when I played solo. If only it were something that was actually meaningful and thus obviously abuse then I wouldn't have done it.

edit: I suppose "Candy-Crush" could be an alternate skin for Mag and her ult...

Edited August 17, 2017 by Yargami

[Mudfam]

49 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

One thing I have yet to see from opponents of the change:
What about solo players in the "old" system?  Why weren't you complaining that solo players didn't have to sit there and bleed out for 15 seconds every time they went down and instead could immediately get back on their feet?

So the multiplayer missions are now being treated the same as solo missions.
in fact solo players still have it easier as they don't have to wait 3 seconds like you do in multiplayer missions if you burn an instant revive.

Why weren't you complaining about how solo players can do all that?
And yet when its brought into group missions now you're all up in arms.

So why is it only a penalty in multiplayer missions and not solo missions?

For me the biggest reason this is a boon is that I can no longer essentially be held hostage by an Oberon that gives me a 1+ minute down time and refuses to revive me because "You aren't being targetted by the enemies, just kill them an we'll pick you up when the timer gets low!" and with absolutely nothing I could do.  Now I can at least get out of those situations.

I don't understand why you think this is even an argument, what's it supposed to mean exactly? How is it even vaguely pertinent?

This game is a patchwork of changes made over many years, it's full of things that no longer make sense in the current context, obsolete mechanics and interactions. The penalty for being downed in solo used to be that you used up one of your limited daily revives. DE then changed this limit and likely completely forgot about solo mode, it being an extremely niche game mode than 99.9% of people never use and don't care about.

This is a multiplayer game, remember? Literally the only time I ever play alone is for specific riven challenges, and even then I set matchmaking to invite only, not solo.

People are talking about how this change affects team play, how it removes the one penalty for failure and the one important tactical interaction we had in a squad based game. Yet you keep parroting about how due to the developer's oversight they introduced a solo mode exploit. Seriously, who the * do you think cares?! No one. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to what we're saying. You might as well be talking about a different game that none of us have ever played.